Alcohol Mostly Benign For The Liver, Causing Injury Requires Endotoxin (LPS)

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by haidut, Dec 18, 2017.

  1. haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    16,613
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    Peat wrote in one of his articles that alcohol is getting a bad reputation for causing all sorts of liver disease and even liver cancer, but alcohol by itself is fairly neutral for the liver and that the role of PUFA, iron and endotoxin is being neglected by mainstream medicine. The study below confirms Peat's statements and shows that by itself alcohol was actually anti-inflammatory even when consumed at a very high daily dose. The only negative effect seen at VERY high level (40% of drinking water, HED is 2L of vodka daily) of alcohol consumption was slight fattening of the liver, which was also seen with sucrose consumption at that level. This highlights the role of inflammation (PUFA) and microbiome in chronic liver disease which medicine likes to blame on genetics and/or "addiction".

    Decreased tumor necrosis factor-alpha and interleukin-1alpha production from intrahepatic mononuclear cells in chronic ethanol consumption and upre... - PubMed - NCBI
    "...No significant difference in IL-la and TNF-a levels was observed between the two control groups, suggesting that the reduction in these cytokines is due to ethanol consumption. The levels of IL-la and TNF-a production seemed to decline in a time-dependent manner from 4 and 6 weeks, respectively, and remained at stable levels -16 to 20 weeks after ethanol consumption. In marked contrast, IL-6 levels remained unchanged in all groups throughout the time period. There was a decrease in the serum levels of IL-la, but not IL-6, in ethanol-fed rats, whereas TNF-a was undetectable (data not shown)."

    "...To determine whether IL-6 and TNF-a production by intrahepatic mononuclear cells is affected by LPS, rats were maintained on 40% ethanol in drinking water, whereas control rats were given sucrose or isocaloric drink. After 8 weeks, all rats were injected with LPS (1.0 pgkg body weight) by the intravenous route. As shown in Fig. 3, 24 hr after injection of LPS, there was a 5-fold increase in the ALT levels that correlated with an increase in the production of IL-6 and TNF-a by cultured intrahepatic cells from ethanol-fed rats, but not control rats (Fig. 4)."

    "...After 4 weeks, there was no clear change in the histological pattern in terms of fatty liver score or cellular infiltration in all groups, although fatty liver score was higher in both ethanol and isocaloric groups compared with sucrose-fed group (not shown). In no case was fibrosis seen."
     
  2. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2016
    Messages:
    3,158
    Gender:
    Male
    The effects of sucrose would be interesting to know about as well (if someone has the time to dig that, I don't atm).
     
  3. Lee Simeon

    Lee Simeon Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    239
    Gender:
    Male
    Do you think caffeine, vitamin k2, glycine, taurine, energin and restircting PUFA would be enough as liver regimen even with a moderate to high alcohol consumption?
     
  4. Arnold Grape

    Arnold Grape Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2017
    Messages:
    450
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Upstate
    I'll cross my fingers on this regimen, as well. :pileofpoop:
     
  5. Terma

    Terma Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2017
    Messages:
    918
    Gender:
    Male
    you just have to take 2 grams theanine with alcohol + glycine + NAC + and no hangover no nothing no problems it is the theanine.
     
  6. Terma

    Terma Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2017
    Messages:
    918
    Gender:
    Male
    and taurine 4 grams
     
  7. Vinero

    Vinero Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,424
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Netherlands
    You might protect your liver, but alcohol also damages your gut. So eventually you still get endotoxin overload if you drink large amounts daily. (I think).
     
  8. theLaw

    theLaw Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2017
    Messages:
    1,276
    Gender:
    Male
    How would it damage the gut exactly (without the presence of pufa or an already impaired gut)?
     
  9. Sheila

    Sheila Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2014
    Messages:
    365
    Gender:
    Female
    Dear theLaw
    I believe RP has said that alcohol being a solvent (for some things, not all) removes a? protective layer from the gut lining allowing the ingress of endotoxin et al into the blood stream more directly. And that is one reason why heavy drinkers tend to have more bowel disease, especially cancer, than the general population IIRC.
    Best wishes
    Sheila
     
  10. Art Vandelay

    Art Vandelay Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    Messages:
    33
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Australia
    Where does food intake while drinking fit into this? Is it better not to eat anything at all while drinking as the food may contain endotoxin or feed gut bacteria?
     
  11. Travis

    Travis Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2016
    Messages:
    3,189
    Gender:
    Male
    I've always felt this to be the case, but it does increase the intestinal absorption of certain things. As long as people stick to safe and natural foods without too much fat, I don't think they should necessarily be afraid of alcohol. I think the liver's vitamin A level determines part of the response.

    And I don't think it 'kills brain cells,' as some grandmothers tell their kids (perhaps to keep them from drinking).
     
  12. theLaw

    theLaw Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2017
    Messages:
    1,276
    Gender:
    Male
    But wouldn't the alcohol keep the gut sterile thus limiting the production of endotoxin?
     
  13. Sheila

    Sheila Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2014
    Messages:
    365
    Gender:
    Female
    Dear theLaw,
    When I want to sterilise equipment in that regard, I use 70% alcohol. Higher concentrations are more expensive without any improvement in sterilisation potential, whereas lower concentrations - which might include most of what people drink at quantity, are much less sterilising as I understand it. Hope that helps.
    Kind regards,
    Sheila
     
  14. theLaw

    theLaw Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2017
    Messages:
    1,276
    Gender:
    Male
  15. DuggaDugga

    DuggaDugga Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2017
    Messages:
    196
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Researcher
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Not that any of us are here to totally exonerate ethanol, but doesn't consumed alcohol compete with retinol as substrate for alcohol dehydrogenase, dysregulating retinoid metabolism?
    The Adverse Effects of Alcohol on Vitamin A Metabolism
    I can recall that during my drinking days I had blemish-free skin, but the quality otherwise was less than desirable.

    I've read a bit on the effects on sex steroid hormones, particularly testosterone and estrogen, and it seems to be a bit of a mix bag. Pretty consistent findings are that ethanol administration increase estrogen levels, probably through decreased clearance and possibly through increased aromatization. However, some studies have found short-term increases in LH and free testosterone, possibly due to decreased binding of SHBH and albumin.
    Serum estradiol levels and ethanol-induced aggression. - PubMed - NCBI
    Acute effects of ethanol on sex hormones in non-alcoholic men and women. - PubMed - NCBI
    Effect of alcohol (ethanol) administration on sex-hormone metabolism in normal men. - PubMed - NCBI
    I know I used to wake up with a strong libido after a night of drinking, though I would be absolutely miserable otherwise. In the days following I would be in a depressed state, libido included.
     
  16. Travis

    Travis Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2016
    Messages:
    3,189
    Gender:
    Male
    The solvent effects should not be discounted, as ethanol is both water and oil‐soluble. It is a hydroxylated alkane, and would be expected to increase the absorption of all lipids. But as a two carbon unit, it is metabolized far better than the one‐carbon methanol and the three‐carbon isopropanol. Safer are the even‐carbon, straight‐chain alcohols such as n‐butanol; but even n‐butanol is more toxic than ethanol. The fatty acid butric acid has a lower LD₅₀ than ethanol, and thus more acutely toxic (as determined by mortality).

    Regardless of any negative effects from ethanol consumption, it still appears to be the safest non‐water liquid on the planet (unless one can find a safer one).

    Can anyone name one liquid—besides water of course—which has a higher LD₅₀ than ethanol?
     
  17. EIRE24

    EIRE24 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2015
    Messages:
    1,700
    I can say before when I drank I had no problem with
    I agree with this but alcohol has no affect on my acne strangely it gets better slighly at times. Definitely agree with the depression side of it.
     
  18. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    16,613
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    I think they would be good for protecting the liver from ongoing endotoxin assault but charcoal may be a simpler and more systemic solution as endotoxin will have effects elsewhere on the body that there supplements may not necessarily be able to block. Also, another thread I posted showed that coconut oil abolishes the endotoxin response, which explains the studies Peat mentioned about saturated fat reversing cirrhosis even in the presence of continued heavy drinking.
     
  19. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    16,613
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA / Europe
    Exactly, the endotoxin comes from increased gut permeability. Magnesium, vitamin B6, and glycine/gelatin are great for healing the permeability issue, an charcoal would be good at decreasing the endotoxin load.
     
  20. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2016
    Messages:
    3,158
    Gender:
    Male
    What are your thoughts on powdered charcoal vs granulated? Ray has been pretty clear about it but I have not seen you talk about a potential issue with powdered charcoal, in fact searching for "granulated" posted by "haidut" I get 0 result. See here for Ray's words:
    Activated Charcoal Should Be Used With Caution
     
Loading...