ALCAR More Effective Than Testosterone For Sexual Function

[Lokzo]

Carnitine versus androgen administration in the treatment of sexual dysfunction, depressed mood, and fatigue associated with male aging. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Lokzo]

@haidut - you played around with this yet?

I'm really liking it.

 

[bromuda]

It's been discussed that it is anti thyroid, I personally didnt't really feel any benefits when I took it maybe a slight fat loss.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

IIRC carnitine is a cortisol analogue. So yeah, this is probably like saying amphetamine is more effective than testosterone which is true if the study time is short enough.

 

[Alex Jaramillo]

IIRC carnitine is a cortisol analogue. So yeah, this is probably like saying amphetamine is more effective than testosterone which is true if the study time is short enough.

 

[haidut]

@haidut - you played around with this yet?

I'm really liking it.

Carnitine is antithyroid and pro-cortisol. It is also the molecule required for fatty acid oxidation. The study basically shows that Carnitine acts like Viagra, which is plausible since it also raises NO. Since it raises cortisol, initially it probably makes one feel better but it is not something I would ever supplement with. I used back in my Paleo days around 2009-2011 and it gave me massive insomnia in doses above 3g daily, which matches well its pro-cortisol effects.
Btw, the drug Mildronate / Meldonium, which is used for all sorts of performance enhancing purposes, including sexual function, depletes carnitine by blocking its synthesis. Something to keep in mind before everybody jumps on the carnitine bandwagon.

 

[Hedgehog]

Low cortisol too is a problem for many. This forum seriously needs to think more in terms of balance instead of just calling certain hormones exclusively 'good' or 'evil'.

 

[haidut]

Low cortisol too is a problem for many. This forum seriously needs to think more in terms of balance instead of just calling certain hormones exclusively 'good' or 'evil'.

If you truly have low cortisol then that is Addison disease and needs to be treated ASAP or it can be lethal. The vast majority of people have too much and not too little cortisol, or at the very least flat cortisol pattern often close to the upper limit of the range.
There are quite a few people on the forum who scream that they have low cortisol but they did saliva test and those are unreliable and never used to definitively diagnose adrenal disease. A good test for cortisol would be a blood test for BOTH the AM and PM cortisol levels. It means 2 draw in the same day but can be drawn from either arm and it would show if there is issue with cortisol synthesis and diurnal pattern. If both tests show up as low then I'd certainly consider seeing an endocrinologist to rule out true adrenal disease, including Addison's. Additional tests for pregnenolone, progesterone, 17-OH-pregnenolone, DHEA-S, cortisone, etc can provide more info on whether the issue is Addison disease or other issues causing blockage somewhere down the steroidogenic pathways.
I am going to tag two doctors on the forum who can chime in too on this issue. One of them is an endocrinologist.
@Rhino @RisingSun

 

[Cirion]

Not that I disagree, but I'm genuinely curious... So what does low AM cortisol and high PM cortisol mean? It certainly doesn't mean you can't produce cortisol, so probably not Addison, but it does show you have trouble making AM cortisol. This is also commonly known as "adrenal fatigue".

My personal theory is that for this person cortisol has been elevated during the night, to where the adrenals get "fatigued" (for lack of better scientific terms), and no longer work by the time the morning comes by. They regenerate quickly though, via carbs/calories so that by the time you've been fed all day, they finally "turn back on" in the evening. Do I have this correct in what essentially what is going on? I think night time is truly one of the most dangerous things for someone with hypothyroid, and yet, sleep is necessary when you're hypo. A very big catch 22 in my experience.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Carnitine is antithyroid and pro-cortisol. It is also the molecule required for fatty acid oxidation. The study basically shows that Carnitine acts like Viagra, which is plausible since it also raises NO. Since it raises cortisol, initially it probably makes one feel better but it is not something I would ever supplement with. I used back in my Paleo days around 2009-2011 and it gave me massive insomnia in doses above 3g daily, which matches well its pro-cortisol effects.
Btw, the drug Mildronate / Meldonium, which is used for all sorts of performance enhancing purposes, including sexual function, depletes carnitine by blocking its synthesis. Something to keep in mind before everybody jumps on the carnitine bandwagon.

thank you for this clear explanation @haidut

 

[Lokzo]

ALCAR does not raise cortisol...

In fact, there is evidence that suggests that ALCAR may even normalise and restore the HPA-Axis:

"Since both CSF beta-endorphins and plasma cortisol decreased, one possible explanation is that ALCAR reduced the AD-dependent hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenocortical (HPA) axis hyperactivity." - Acetyl-L-carnitine in Alzheimer disease: a short-term study on CSF neurotransmitters and neuropeptides. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[haidut]

So what does low AM cortisol and high PM cortisol mean?

It could mean many things. It is seen in people working night shifts or the so-called night owls. It can sometimes be caused by SSRI drugs, or in general be seen in people with depression, bipolar, etc. Chronic stress and low thyroid are other common reasons, as the body only lowers cortisol if cellular energy production is good and that is not the case when under stress or with low thyroid. These are only some of the examples, many other specific issues can cause this so-called "inverted pattern".

 

[haidut]

ALCAR does not raise cortisol...

In fact, there is evidence that suggests that ALCAR may even normalise and restore the HPA-Axis:

"Since both CSF beta-endorphins and plasma cortisol decreased, one possible explanation is that ALCAR reduced the AD-dependent hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenocortical (HPA) axis hyperactivity." - Acetyl-L-carnitine in Alzheimer disease: a short-term study on CSF neurotransmitters and neuropeptides. - PubMed - NCBI

Sorry, should have clarified that carnitine actually acts like cortisol - it is a GR agonist, which is arguably worse than raising cortisol synthesis.
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/carnitine-is-a-glucocorticoid-agonist-acts-like-cortisol.7917/

So, anything that acts like cortisol is expected to suppress HPA through negative feedback mechanism but in this case this is not a good thing as you are giving the body a form of exogenous cortisol-like molecule.

 

[Lokzo]

Sci-Hub | | 10.1159/000107224

 

[Lokzo]

Sorry, should have clarified that carnitine actually acts like cortisol - it is a GR agonist, which is arguably worse than raising cortisol synthesis.
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/carnitine-is-a-glucocorticoid-agonist-acts-like-cortisol.7917/

So, anything that acts like cortisol is expected to suppress HPA through negative feedback mechanism but in this case this is not a good thing as you are giving the body a form of exogenous cortisol-like molecule.

Ah I see what you meant now.

I did also read something similar, although, this is pointing as to more of restorative effects to glucocorticoid receptors:

"This effect may be explained by ALCAR capability of retarding the age-dependent loss of glucocorticoid receptors in the hippocampus, thus maintaining the glucocorticoid competence of this structure which exerts a negative feedback control over the HPA axis activity."
Effect of long-term acetyl-L-carnitine on stress-induced analgesia in the aging rat. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[haidut]

View attachment 12939
Sci-Hub | | 10.1159/000107224

Yes, cortisol levels drop when you administer a glucocorticoid agonist, like carnitine. Look up "dexamethasone suppression test" on Google.

 

[Lokzo]

Yes, cortisol levels drop when you administer a glucocorticoid agonist, like carnitine. Look up "dexamethasone suppression test" on Google.

Ah sure.

But I would think it's more of a modulator, possibly having a sparing effect on the adrenal/glucocorticoid system:

L-carnitine: A nutritional modulator of glucocorticoid receptor functions. - PubMed - NCBI
"Pharmacological doses of L-carnitine can activate GRalpha and, through this mechanism, regulate glucocorticoid-responsive genes, potentially sharing some of the biological and therapeutic properties of glucocorticoids"

 

[Lokzo]

Having said that:
Acetyl-L-carnitine acutely administered raises beta-endorphin and cortisol plasma levels in humans. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[RisingSun]

If you truly have low cortisol then that is Addison disease and needs to be treated ASAP or it can be lethal. The vast majority of people have too much and not too little cortisol, or at the very least flat cortisol pattern often close to the upper limit of the range.
There are quite a few people on the forum who scream that they have low cortisol but they did saliva test and those are unreliable and never used to definitively diagnose adrenal disease. A good test for cortisol would be a blood test for BOTH the AM and PM cortisol levels. It means 2 draw in the same day but can be drawn from either arm and it would show if there is issue with cortisol synthesis and diurnal pattern. If both tests show up as low then I'd certainly consider seeing an endocrinologist to rule out true adrenal disease, including Addison's. Additional tests for pregnenolone, progesterone, 17-OH-pregnenolone, DHEA-S, cortisone, etc can provide more info on whether the issue is Addison disease or other issues causing blockage somewhere down the steroidogenic pathways.
I am going to tag two doctors on the forum who can chime in too on this issue. One of them is an endocrinologist.
@Rhino @RisingSun

In my practice it's mostly the above 55yo group that is adrenal deficient.

When a 30yo has a pituirary carcinoma the adrenals are usually unafected and Testosterone + DHEA + Pregnenolone replacement suffice.

Above 55yo I almost always have to prescribe 20mg hydrocortisone too

 

[haidut]

In my practice it's mostly the above 55yo group that is adrenal deficient.

When a 30yo has a pituirary carcinoma the adrenals are usually unafected and Testosterone + DHEA + Pregnenolone replacement suffice.

Above 55yo I almost always have to prescribe 20mg hydrocortisone too

Thanks for chiming in.