Air Ionizer Log

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Dan W

Dan W

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goofy said:
What the f*** do I do? serious. Do I buy the air filter version only, or do I buy the air filter + ionizer one?
In my mind, get the air filter if you mainly want cleaner air, or the ionizer to focus on reducing serotonin.

goofy said:
Also, what about the Elanra one saying that the ions need to be a certain small size to penetrate and be useful beyond being just air dust collectors? (because they don't penetrate the body as they are not small enough).
Their claim sounds strange to me, though I'm a bit out of my depth. I would think any needle/wire emitter ionizer would be capable of making "small negative oxygen ions." I'd be surprised if they have some sort of special technique for producing them.

goofy said:
Also, how in hell are you measuring serotonin, dopamine, histamine... in accurate ways? all the docs i've talked to said, "it's imposible to have accurate measurements of these, because they fluctuate way too much".
I've been doing serotonin (whole-blood) tests, trying to do them the same time of day (and with a consistent diet and sleep schedule) to minimize variability. And the hourly variation looks "flat" enough (based on this) that you could learn something from a value even if it was at strange point in the circadian rhythms. Repeated testing gets expensive though, so I've stopped.

I don't know about the other tests...
 

goofy

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What makes me paranoid is that the device releases oxygen while they claim it doesn't release oxygen. The elanra guys measured other devices and what they advertised was not what they measured:

http://www.elanra.co.uk/otherionisers.htm

Besides im not still convinced negative ions are a legitimate source of health benefits.

Air filtering seems like it's an obvious benefit, but at the same time, is it really good to live "in a bubble" as in, reducing way too much pollutants that when you go out, you are low in antibodies hence less ready for the rough enviornments of a city?
 
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Dan W

Dan W

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That's crazy that two of them have no ion output at all. I wish they'd tested the one I'd bought for comparison.
 

tomisonbottom

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I might've figured out a solution to my myofascial issues: tons of bag breathing. So far, 40 minutes a day of bag breathing correlates with near-0 myofascial pain for me. I've got my fingers crossed that it's a long-term fix.

Do you still use the ionizer too, Dan?
 
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Dan W

Dan W

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Do you still use the ionizer too, Dan?
I do. I'm not positive it's doing much, but it doesn't take any real effort to keep using it (I keep it in my home office during the day, and the bedroom at night).
 

kaybb

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Do you still use the ionizer too, Dan?
update ?
I might've figured out a solution to my myofascial issues: tons of bag breathing. So far, 40 minutes a day of bag breathing correlates with near-0 myofascial pain for me. I've got my fingers crossed that it's a long-term fix.
How is your pain level? Are you still having success with bag breathing ? I have pain continually, diagnosed as fibromyalgia. I have all the symptoms. I have tried bag breathing but RP mentioned on a radio show 2-3 min a day. So just wondering how it's going for you ?
 
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Dan W

Dan W

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I still use it, though I still am not sure it's doing much.

How is your pain level? Are you still having success with bag breathing ? I have pain continually, diagnosed as fibromyalgia. I have all the symptoms. I have tried bag breathing but RP mentioned on a radio show 2-3 min a day. So just wondering how it's going for you ?
It's been slow going, but at this point I consider my problems 90% fixed. I wish I could point to some specific fix, but I can't identify one. I suspect it's something in general about Peat-stuff like nutrition, CO2, and metabolism, plus increasing skill at identifying and "fixing" myofascial pain spots (PainScience was helpful for me on this, and it looks like he's got an article on fibromyalgia).
 

kaybb

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I still use it, though I still am not sure it's doing much.


It's been slow going, but at this point I consider my problems 90% fixed. I wish I could point to some specific fix, but I can't identify one. I suspect it's something in general about Peat-stuff like nutrition, CO2, and metabolism, plus increasing skill at identifying and "fixing" myofascial pain spots (PainScience was helpful for me on this, and it looks like he's got an article on fibromyalgia).
Thanks for the info:)
 

kaybb

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I still use it, though I still am not sure it's doing much.


It's been slow going, but at this point I consider my problems 90% fixed. I wish I could point to some specific fix, but I can't identify one. I suspect it's something in general about Peat-stuff like nutrition, CO2, and metabolism, plus increasing skill at identifying and "fixing" myofascial pain spots (PainScience was helpful for me on this, and it looks like he's got an article on fibromyalgia).
Amazing you are 90% better!! What an accomplishment! And thanks for the article references.
 

Gl;itch.e

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I'm curious about Air Ionizers and came across this cool looking portable one.

upload_2017-5-1_12-41-40.png
https://www.banggood.com/Xdoor-Mini...urifier-p-1076227.html?p=KD29169790105201703E

I imagine it would be handy to carry around with you to work if you sit at a desk which is why I'm looking at getting one myself. Also curious if it would be useful to have negative ions to breathe whilst training/working out. Guess it would be like training on a beach! :): I would probably get some weird looks at the gym, but I could pass it off as an mp3 player or something! LOL
 
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Dan W

Dan W

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Huh, that actually looks cool. Elanra's got a $500 pendant one that would make you look like a washing machine console:
air-ionizers-elanra-pendant.jpg


I worry about ozone at short distances. Maybe someone smart can tell me if my unsubstantiated belief is true: if ozone rapidly drops off with a distance, do you get the best ion to ozone ratio by keeping the ionizer as far from you as possible? I'm hoping the ions accumulate with time.
 

Gl;itch.e

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Huh, that actually looks cool. Elanra's got a $500 pendant one that would make you look like a washing machine console:
air-ionizers-elanra-pendant.jpg
Bahahaha! Nice!

I worry about ozone at short distances. Maybe someone smart can tell me if my unsubstantiated belief is true: if ozone rapidly drops off with a distance, do you get the best ion to ozone ratio by keeping the ionizer as far from you as possible? I'm hoping the ions accumulate with time.
Yeah not sure on that one. The one I linked to suggests in the info graphic that is has an effective range of 1 square metre so it sounds like it would have to be reasonably close to you to be effective.
 

Nokoni

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"earthing" (which I'm still skeptical of, but it's easy enough to strap on a grounding cord at night)
Hi Dan, just wanted to point out that grounding is required to get the ions into the lungs because the ions build up around your body and repel the incoming ions. You can feel the effect by getting your face close to the emitter. If you are not grounded you will not feel much, but if you then grab a ground (mine has a pad that is ground, so I just touch it) you will instantly feel a strong breeze of ions against your face. The effect is fairly dramatic.

Having said that, I always sleep grounded but never noticed any benefit from the ionizer. The only noticeable effect was to turn all the grounded switches and receptacles black :). Tried it for a year or two before putting it away.

BTW, thanks for all you do here at RPF and on Toxinless.
 
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Dan W

Dan W

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Thanks Don, I'll have to experiment with that.

And thanks to someone contacting me about the possibility of ozone byproducts (and of ozone being harmful in very low quantities), I purchased some ozone test strips to check the ionizer output. Here they are if anyone wants to try their own experiment or has any input on whether they're reliable:
Macherey-Nagel, 90736, Ozone Test Sticks, Box Of 12 Strips. Determination of ozone in air.: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

I abused them by using them outside their specs (I didn't get any detection results with the 10-minute exposure time they're meant for). So I did several experiments to see if I could expose them to enough ozone to estimate results, including things like enclosing them in a small garbage can with the ionizer, leaving them exposed for 16 hours, etc. As a control, the general indoor/outdoor air in my area appears to have almost 0 ozone.

Overall I'd take a *wild* guess that being an inch from the ionizer in a normal room (with a door open but no outside airflow) has an exposure under 20ug/m3. Which is way below the danger zone mentioned with the test kit, at least.

I suspect all of the models of ionizers put out some amount of ozone, regardless of manufacturer claims. So I don't mean this as a suggestion against this particular model or anything.

I haven't figured out how to balance any hypothetical benefits vs the (probably almost non-existent) ozone exposure. I dream of a day where serotonin testing is cheap enough to conclusively decide what it's doing, or at least for more studies to come out.
 

Nokoni

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There may be some benefits. I took in a stray cat who clearly had some trouble in his lungs -- wheezing, coughing, audible breathing, etc. So I put a grounding cloth under his favorite spot and positioned the ionizer to direct the stream at his face (as best I could -- the cats are wary of its high-pitched whine). Over the ensuing months his lungs fully recovered. Could be that the ionizer helped.

But I never noticed a serotonin benefit. (I don't do blood tests, but no improvement in mood or reduction in bowel transit time.) Cypro is great for serotonin, but it's a bit of a hammer, and tianeptine is also quite good, but both it and cypro are drugs. But Lapodin seems to help. Clearly a bit less histamine, and apparently a bit less serotonin -- nice mood, surprisingly improved bowel function -- and seemingly nothing but pure physiological goodness. I'm still less than a week in, but so far I'm completely delighted. Something to think about.
 

michael94

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There may be some benefits. I took in a stray cat who clearly had some trouble in his lungs -- wheezing, coughing, audible breathing, etc. So I put a grounding cloth under his favorite spot and positioned the ionizer to direct the stream at his face (as best I could -- the cats are wary of its high-pitched whine). Over the ensuing months his lungs fully recovered. Could be that the ionizer helped.

But I never noticed a serotonin benefit. (I don't do blood tests, but no improvement in mood or reduction in bowel transit time.) Cypro is great for serotonin, but it's a bit of a hammer, and tianeptine is also quite good, but both it and cypro are drugs. But Lapodin seems to help. Clearly a bit less histamine, and apparently a bit less serotonin -- nice mood, surprisingly improved bowel function -- and seemingly nothing but pure physiological goodness. I'm still less than a week in, but so far I'm completely delighted. Something to think about.
and now
 

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