Aging In Human Mitochondria Fully Reversed By Glycine

[shepherdgirl]

Thanks @haidut !
Of course I like this answer!

 

[yerrag]

The milk blend I had my mom on before she passed on contains 10 grams collagen hydrolysate. She took it 2-3x/day for the past 3 months. The week before she died, I had observed very clear skin on her, and because of that I was very optimistic on her being able to recover many youthful functions such as being able to control sphincters in her urinary bladder and in the esophagus, as well as regain her hearing, which I came across on McGavack's book "Thyroid" as indicating hearing loss was a hypothyroid condition.

Since I have plenty of the ingredients of the milk blend left, I have been on the milk blend for a week, taking it 2-3x/day. I will know in a month or two how the glycine in the milk blend is taking an effect on me. I've also advised 3 of my friends to use this milk blend as a starting point for treating their breast cancer.

It's interesting though that the main selling point on the milk blend isn't about health, but that my mom's skin became more young-looking because of it. Beauty and vanity really sells. Health is a far second, even for cancer victims.

 

[Peata]

I find collagen very valuable. Ray Peat doesn't recommend standalone aminos. I think collagen or gelatin is a great way to get a good amount of glycine.

The milk blend I had my mom on before she passed on contains 10 grams collagen hydrolysate. She took it 2-3x/day for the past 3 months. The week before she died, I had observed very clear skin on her, and because of that I was very optimistic on her being able to recover many youthful functions such as being able to control sphincters in her urinary bladder and in the esophagus, as well as regain her hearing, which I came across on McGavack's book "Thyroid" as indicating hearing loss was a hypothyroid condition.

Since I have plenty of the ingredients of the milk blend left, I have been on the milk blend for a week, taking it 2-3x/day. I will know in a month or two how the glycine in the milk blend is taking an effect on me. I've also advised 3 of my friends to use this milk blend as a starting point for treating their breast cancer.

It's interesting though that the main selling point on the milk blend isn't about health, but that my mom's skin became more young-looking because of it. Beauty and vanity really sells. Health is a far second, even for cancer victims.

What brand(s) of collagen do you recommend? And what about concerns of bovine collagen and BSE?

 

[ecstatichamster]

I use Great Lakes green can collagen.

 

[yerrag]

What brand(s) of collagen do you recommend? And what about concerns of bovine collagen and BSE?

Great Lakes is is fine. Avoid those sourced from fish, chicken, pigs, or cattle fed GMO feed.

 

[milk_lover]

I would avoid pure glycine because it has always given me bad stomach issues and headache..

 

[DuggaDugga]

This got me thinking about the implications of a glycine deficiency and cancer, a metabolic disorder characterized by mitochondrial dysfunction.

After poking around pubmed a bit I came across this paper:

Serine and glycine metabolism in cancer
Serine and glycine metabolism in cancer

I was surprised to find this excerpt:
"

Glycine metabolism is associated with cancer cell proliferation
The second product of the SHMT reaction (i.e., glycine) can be directed to the biosynthesis of purines, where it provides two carbon atoms and a nitrogen atom in the purine ring. Glycine is also an integral component of glutathione, therefore, the main antioxidant molecule of the cell, this amino acid is also required to maintain the cellular redox balance. In the mitochondria, glycine also fuels heme biosynthesis and thus sustains oxidative phosphorylation [46]. It has been recently shown that glycine uptake and catabolism is able to promote tumourigenesis and malignancy, suggesting that glycine metabolism could in principle be a target for therapeutic intervention [47]. By looking at variations in the level of more than 200 metabolites in the NCI-60 cell line, Jain and coworkers showed that both glycine consumption and expression of enzymes in the mitochondrial glycine biosynthetic pathway (but not the corresponding cytosolic enzymes) correlate with the rate of proliferation of cancer cells. Their results indicate a key role for the mitochondria in supporting rapid cancer cell proliferation. A recent meta-analysis, based on mRNA profiles of 1454 metabolic enzymes across 1981 tumours spanning 19 cancer types, further underscored the importance of mitochondrial compartmentalisation of one-carbon metabolism for cancer [48]. Antagonising glycine uptake and its mitochondrial biosynthesis preferentially impaired rapidly proliferating cells; in particular, silencing the mitochondrial SHMT2 gene and deprivation of extracellular glycine slowed down proliferation in HeLa cells and other fast-proliferating cancer cells by prolonging the G1 phase of the cell cycle [47]. Furthermore, upregulation of serine/glycine metabolism correlates with cell proliferation and poor prognosis in several tumours. Additionally, mathematical modelling of the serine/glycine conversion rate in a panel of 60 well-characterised cell lines (NCI60 panel) shows that glycine conversion increases the proliferation rate and contributes significantly to the biosynthetic requirements of purines, ATP, and NADPH in cancer cells [49].

These studies confirm that glycine deprivation (from the diet or by enzymatic depletion) may be a new route for human cancer chemotherapy; thus, targeting SHMT is a high priority in designing innovative therapeutic strategies.

Hard for me to imagine there's not a modulating factor not being considered here. Glycine as an integral component to glutathione and subsequent protection from oxidative stress, it seems a bit counter-intuitive that it would also propagate cancer. That it restores mitochondrial respiration would have led me to believe that it'd actually have a beneficial role is pulling the cell out of aerobic glycolysis. The one-carbon metabolism pathway is so flexible that it's hard for me to think restricting and antagonizing cellular uptake of glycine would be an effective therapy.

Thoughts anyone?

 

[yerrag]

This got me thinking about the implications of a glycine deficiency and cancer, a metabolic disorder characterized by mitochondrial dysfunction.

After poking around pubmed a bit I came across this paper:

Serine and glycine metabolism in cancer
Serine and glycine metabolism in cancer

I was surprised to find this excerpt:
"

Hard for me to imagine there's not a modulating factor not being considered here. Glycine as an integral component to glutathione and subsequent protection from oxidative stress, it seems a bit counter-intuitive that it would also propagate cancer. That it restores mitochondrial respiration would have led me to believe that it'd actually have a beneficial role is pulling the cell out of aerobic glycolysis. The one-carbon metabolism pathway is so flexible that it's hard for me to think restricting and antagonizing cellular uptake of glycine would be an effective therapy.

Thoughts anyone?

The first that comes to mind is the quality of the glycine used. If the glycine is tainted with glyphosate, which is from use of GMO, that could very well skew invalidate the conclusions made.

 

[DuggaDugga]

The first that comes to mind is the quality of the glycine used. If the glycine is tainted with glyphosate, which is from use of GMO, that could very well skew invalidate the conclusions made.

Could be.

I'm inclined to think there's something physiologically missing from that equation. If glycine can be synthesized endogenously, it doesn't seem like the answer is going to be depriving the body of it, especially given all its benefits. Similar to the recommendation that cancer patients not eat sugar, even though gluconeogensis will ultimately provide it to them at a higher cost they can't really afford.

 

[yerrag]

Could be.

I'm inclined to think there's something physiologically missing from that equation. If glycine can be synthesized endogenously, it doesn't seem like the answer is going to be depriving the body of it, especially given all its benefits. Similar to the recommendation that cancer patients not eat sugar, even though gluconeogensis will ultimately provide it to them at a higher cost they can't really afford.

From The Cancer Matrix :

In general, substances that increase collagen production are promoters of cancer and contribute to the progression of heart failure, and other degenerative changes.

I've wondered about this statement. Since collagen contains plenty of glycine, it would seem to me that increased glycine intake would promote collagen production, and by extension, promote cancer.

But on Tryptophan, serotonin, and aging :

The simplest, nonessential, amino acid, glycine, has been found to protect against carcinogenesis, inflammation, fibrosis, neurological damage, shock, asthma, and hypertension. Increased glycine improves learning (Handlemann, et al., 1989; File, et al., 1999), glycine antagonists usually impair it. Its antitoxic and cytoprotective actions are remarkable. Collagen, besides being free of tryptophan, contains a large amount of glycine--32% of its amino acid units, 22% of its weight.

I think it is again about understanding the context of the individual. I think that if the patient's physical makeup favors bringing out the benefits of using glycine over its downsides, the use of glycine would be favorable. Maybe when his body is running less on stress conditions, the use of glycine becomes very favorable.

Your comparison to sugar is spot on. In stress conditions, sugar may very well make cancer grow. But if the stress conditions are relieved, sugar becomes more useful in fighting cancer.

So in approaching treatment for cancer, it not not only about using substances, but using it in the right way. And the right way involves addressing the stress conditions by correcting them, and in so doing making the environment within the body very unfavorable to the growth of cancer, and very favorable to restoring the body's ability to fight back towards eliminating cancer.

Approaching the treatment of cancer is like cooking a great dish. It's not just the ingredients, it is the right approach and methods. A lousy cook simply adds the ingredients, not knowing why it's needed and when it's needed.

 

[DuggaDugga]

From The Cancer Matrix :

In general, substances that increase collagen production are promoters of cancer and contribute to the progression of heart failure, and other degenerative changes.

I've wondered about this statement. Since collagen contains plenty of glycine, it would seem to me that increased glycine intake would promote collagen production, and by extension, promote cancer.

But on Tryptophan, serotonin, and aging :

The simplest, nonessential, amino acid, glycine, has been found to protect against carcinogenesis, inflammation, fibrosis, neurological damage, shock, asthma, and hypertension. Increased glycine improves learning (Handlemann, et al., 1989; File, et al., 1999), glycine antagonists usually impair it. Its antitoxic and cytoprotective actions are remarkable. Collagen, besides being free of tryptophan, contains a large amount of glycine--32% of its amino acid units, 22% of its weight.

I think it is again about understanding the context of the individual. I think that if the patient's physical makeup favors bringing out the benefits of using glycine over its downsides, the use of glycine would be favorable. Maybe when his body is running less on stress conditions, the use of glycine becomes very favorable.

Your comparison to sugar is spot on. In stress conditions, sugar may very well make cancer grow. But if the stress conditions are relieved, sugar becomes more useful in fighting cancer.

So in approaching treatment for cancer, it not not only about using substances, but using it in the right way. And the right way involves addressing the stress conditions by correcting them, and in so doing making the environment within the body very unfavorable to the growth of cancer, and very favorable to restoring the body's ability to fight back towards eliminating cancer.

Approaching the treatment of cancer is like cooking a great dish. It's not just the ingredients, it is the right approach and methods. A lousy cook simply adds the ingredients, not knowing why it's needed and when it's needed.

I think the issues with collagen, calcification, and the like is when they're occurring in an errant fashion, otherwise they're natural and healthy structural components.

 

[yerrag]

I think the issues with collagen, calcification, and the like is when they're occurring in an errant fashion, otherwise they're natural and healthy structural components.

Right, and maybe in cases of cancer, they are. Study's conclusions could still be valid, but what I'd like is another study to follow it up explaining what change needs to be done to be made so glycine is helpful to the patient and not to the cancer.

 

[mattyb]

There is no difference, biochemically speaking. If mitochondria can be brought back to youthful functioning then all signs of aging should be start to reverse.

Don't you think this may be a massive oversimplification?

This got me thinking about the implications of a glycine deficiency and cancer, a metabolic disorder characterized by mitochondrial dysfunction.

After poking around pubmed a bit I came across this paper:

Serine and glycine metabolism in cancer
Serine and glycine metabolism in cancer

I was surprised to find this excerpt:
"

Hard for me to imagine there's not a modulating factor not being considered here. Glycine as an integral component to glutathione and subsequent protection from oxidative stress, it seems a bit counter-intuitive that it would also propagate cancer. That it restores mitochondrial respiration would have led me to believe that it'd actually have a beneficial role is pulling the cell out of aerobic glycolysis. The one-carbon metabolism pathway is so flexible that it's hard for me to think restricting and antagonizing cellular uptake of glycine would be an effective therapy.

Thoughts anyone?

Cancer cells can demonstrate extreme plasticity, and seem to be be able to proliferate with the addition of many different types of substances (fatty acids, proteins, carbohydrate). Many types of healthy tissues love carbohydrates, but so do cancer cells. It doesn't mean carbohydrates are intrinsically risky to consume though. Anything that can fulfill energy or structural demands in cancerous tissue is often the same stuff that's useful for healthy cells.

 

[Johnson Bagfoot]

....Glycine is great, eat it...

Hi Haidut,

I currently find glycine very stimulating, it seems to trigger fight or flight (or an adrenaline rush) in me. What marks my history is prolonged past SSRI use and consequent chronic fatigue during/after withdrawal. I'm wondering how to take it or how to start tolerating it again.

Warm regards, and thanks for all of your contributions here. I only found peat a few weeks ago, but your posts here are a treasure trove of good content.

Johnson

 

[Nighteyes]

I currently find glycine very stimulating, it seems to trigger fight or flight (or an adrenaline rush) in me. What marks my history is prolonged past SSRI use and consequent chronic fatigue during/after withdrawal. I'm wondering how to take it or how to start tolerating it again.

Not to answer for Haidut, but just a thought on this problem: Maybe you are raising adrenaline because you are lowering cortisol too much. I have the same problem but not only glycine, also with coffee. Now, what to do about low cortisol I dunno -.-'

 

[haidut]

Hi Haidut,

I currently find glycine very stimulating, it seems to trigger fight or flight (or an adrenaline rush) in me. What marks my history is prolonged past SSRI use and consequent chronic fatigue during/after withdrawal. I'm wondering how to take it or how to start tolerating it again.

Warm regards, and thanks for all of your contributions here. I only found peat a few weeks ago, but your posts here are a treasure trove of good content.

Johnson

Does taurine give you the same effects? Glycine is a co-agonist of the NMDA receptor (while taurine is not), which for some people could be overstimulating. Maybe the past SSRI use plays a role here.

 

[Koveras]

I had my own set of issues from glycine & gelatin

Researching glycine encephalopathy and the glycine cleavage system was helpful

There are several genes involved in producing enzymes necessary for the metabolism of glycine:

GLDC - encodes the P-protein (glycine dehydrogenase)
GCST/AMT - encodes the T-protein (aminomethyltransferase)
GCSH - encodes the H-protein
GCSL/DLD - encodes the L-protein (dihydrolipoyl dehydrogenase)

While the typical "mutations" in the glycine cleavage system cause some fairly severe issues (presenting in infancy), it's possible to have polymorphisms in those genes that reduce the efficacy of the system somewhat. There are many cofactors as well so genetics involved in those could also be related.

The direct cofactors to the system I noted:

Vitamin B9/Folate
NAD+ (via Vitamin B3/Niacinamide)
FAD (via Vitamin B2/Riboflavin)
Vitamin B6/Pyridoxal
Lipoic Acid
Ubiquinone/Coenzyme Q10

Anyway not necessarily your issue but I thought I would put that out there - always possible some transient nutrient deficiency or other burdens on the system could slow things down.

Hi Haidut,

I currently find glycine very stimulating, it seems to trigger fight or flight (or an adrenaline rush) in me. What marks my history is prolonged past SSRI use and consequent chronic fatigue during/after withdrawal. I'm wondering how to take it or how to start tolerating it again.

Warm regards, and thanks for all of your contributions here. I only found peat a few weeks ago, but your posts here are a treasure trove of good content.

Johnson

Does taurine give you the same effects? Glycine is a co-agonist of the NMDA receptor (while taurine is not), which for some people could be overstimulating. Maybe the past SSRI use plays a role here.

I seemed to have some issues with excitatory effects of glycine for a bit (see above) - addressing some of those cofactors may have helped.

 

[Johnson Bagfoot]

Does taurine give you the same effects? Glycine is a co-agonist of the NMDA receptor (while taurine is not), which for some people could be overstimulating. Maybe the past SSRI use plays a role here.

I bought taurine based on your post. It seemingly has a stimulating effect. I took it yesterday night, 1.5 grams with some orange juice. I felt more stimulated than sedated. Glycine at a lower dose, 0.5mg, with juice, may possibly be sedating. But >2g of glycine is definitely very stimulating. It's very paradoxical. Because another long term SSRI user who discontinued finds high dose glycine to be relaxing/sedating.

I'm still quite confused about what's going on. So far, stimulating reactions to glycine, taurine. Significantly lowered pulse/temps with 0.2mg cyproheptadine, which felt slightly dangerous. Worsened sleep with mirtazapine. I previously thought very low cortisol might cause these paradoxical reactions, so I got further testing. Yet, lab results today show higher than normal morning cortisol, almost to the point of suspected cushings, yet I don't look like fat face cushings. Also, a high A/G ratio of 2.7 (ref range <2.0), low gamma gt 8 (ref range 11-71), high bilirubin level 23 umol/L (ref range <21). Low pulse, low temps (down to 94 sometimes), insomnia, fatigue, fight or flight.

Anything else I could try - or anything indicated by the above cluster?

Johnson

 

[mont109]

If you want something that actually works, Metformin is the ticket - it improves mitochondrial function, cuts cancer rates, improves telomere length, and diabetics who are only on it, live 5 years longer. I take it and I'm not diabetic - it slows sugar production by liver so it doesn't make your sugar low. Also improves mood I'll send links once I'm no longer a no-link new member.

 

[ecstatichamster]

If you want something that actually works, Metformin is the ticket - it improves mitochondrial function, cuts cancer rates, improves telomere length, and diabetics who are only on it, live 5 years longer. I take it and I'm not diabetic - it slows sugar production by liver so it doesn't make your sugar low. Also improves mood I'll send links once I'm no longer a no-link new member.

It's mitochondrial poison. It interferes with ATP synthesis in the mitochondria