Aging Fast & Alien Confusion

OP
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To clarify my thought,”, it would be a real thought to consider that this diet, health and fitness narrative that has been pushed for sixty or seventy years,”. What I meant was that the whole concept of eat less move more, seems to have long term consequences that the results promised are completely opposite of those that are received in the end.
I have no issue with going to the gym and working out, with the caveat being what type of workout you are doing, combined with what type of diet you use to fuel the the activity but also counteract the stress hormones created during the workout.
An example would be power lifters that put immense strain on there bodies lifting or pulling incredible weights, or pulling and throwing items in order to be the king of the hill as it were. However fast forward ten years and see the results of the stresses they have put their bodies through, it is not uncommon to see heart issues, joint and bone deterioration, worn cartilage, as well as brain and cognitive issues (ie football concussions)This is of course the extreme and these champions are held in esteem as shining examples for the rest of us.
If you are young and impressionable these heroes become your role models and you hit the gym with that goal in mind, but there is a tendency to only look at the prize for your labour and not the price you pay for your labour (as you have observed with your ex). Combined with the dietary suggestions put out by the government experts in nutrition, one can find themselves in a quagmire of health issues after a period of time, since the stress hormone systems being activated were only designed to be on for the short period of time it took to outrun the lion or your friend to get up the tree to safety.

A hard fact that most athletes take upon themselves as a mantra is that there is a belief that second place is the first place loser. I feel that the mental weight of carrying that belief will also take a toll upon an organism knowing that there can be only one winner and the margin of difference between first place champion and first place loser could be as little as one tenth of a second, or the opinion of a judge.
This would be my concern that people go to the gym to be healthy and have an increased longevity, but feel they need to be there and perform like they are an elite athlete, without having accumulated a proper knowledge of how to counteract and shutdown the stress hormones ie cortisol feels really good when you are on it, and sugar helps to shut down its effects, but we are continually bombarded all the time on how bad sugar is.
I agree with everything you are saying here. All these years of science, and it’s resulting health decline, is ironic, to just end up back at the beginning, when sugar was treasured.
 

J.R.K

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I agree with everything you are saying here. All these years of science, and it’s resulting health decline, is ironic, to just end up back at the beginning, when sugar was treasured.
Agreed but I would also mention the “other modern demon” salt.
Ironic at one point in human history wars were fought over salt.
 

J.R.K

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I am make my inflammation the focal point in my health too! Even though I don’t have any aches or pains, and my digestion is great, it doesn’t mean inflammation isn’t there. I am aware that even though I can “get away with” eating stuff that causes inflammation, I am not gonna wait until I have the outward manifestations of inflammation to get my act together. My friends always think I can’t have “this” or “that” and I constantly remind them that I can have whatever I want, I just choose not to eat things that tear my body down. So when it comes to drinking alcohol I ONLY drink “high end” white tequila, but now hearing wine has more benefits that the ones I knew of, and just weren’t worth it for me, maybe I won’t say no to a glass of wine when it is offered again.

Yes citrus skins have been an amazing addition to my diet this year! I had orange marmalade on my sprouted and buttered toast this morning and the peel of one organic orange in my affigato today!
Curious on this topic @Rinse & rePeat. Do you make your own sprouted bread?
Given your well documented culinary skills I would presume you do, but I wonder how you would either produce or perhaps purchase the flour?
In the same vein do you produce your own mixtimolized corn flour or do you have a go to for that product as well?
 

parallax

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Sorry if the following idea has already been alluded to in this thread.
There is a broad range of normal human behavior and traits; often conversations about 'evolutionary' diet and lifestyle is seeking to define a 'standard' human behavior that best matches who and what we are. Any investigation of human historical behavior will reveal that there is a wide range in the amount of daily physical movement people habitually do. In a classic bell curve, there are a few percent of people in any given group who are sedentary by disposition and a few percent who are so active that they will squirm and wriggle and try to escape if they are required to sit still. We tend to dislike behaviors that diverge too far from the mean, so we sometimes medicate people who fall on either end of this range.
Some of us, and probably many of us who habitually exercise, are instrinsically built to move a lot more than the average. Being one of those who must move, I feel that the average movement requirements are a bit more than a typical desk-job affords, but I cannot deny that sedentary outliers also exist, who are in no way harmed by their average movement patterns, just as many super-athletes aren't harmed by their movement which would harm others.

Edit:
I have to move a certain amount or I feel different kinds of bad. While I love hiking, climbing trees, swimming, caving, diving, digging, gardening, building things, and all manner of other productive movements, I also appreciate the feeling of moving on a treadmill. The physical act of movement is pleasurable in my body, so while I recognise why an hour on a treadmill may be obvious meaningless vanity, the experience is rewarding in itself. While I would prefer to hike to a waterfall, I can run on a treadmill during my half hour lunch break, but I need about three hours to hike; gyms may be less wonderful, but they are often more convenient.
 
Last edited:
OP
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Curious on this topic @Rinse & rePeat. Do you make your own sprouted bread?
Given your well documented culinary skills I would presume you do, but I wonder how you would either produce or perhaps purchase the flour?
In the same vein do you produce your own mixtimolized corn flour or do you have a go to for that product as well?
No I don’t do any of that involved kind of stuff. I actually only do as much as I have to and never more. I don’t necessarily enjoy cooking, I just do it for health a taste reasons.
 

J.R.K

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Some very
Sorry if the following idea has already been alluded to in this thread.
There is a broad range of normal human behavior and traits; often conversations about 'evolutionary' diet and lifestyle is seeking to define a 'standard' human behavior that best matches who and what we are. Any investigation of human historical behavior will reveal that there is a wide range in the amount of daily physical movement people habitually do. In a classic bell curve, there are a few percent of people in any given group who are sedentary by disposition and a few percent who are so active that they will squirm and wriggle and try to escape if they are required to sit still. We tend to dislike behaviors that diverge too far from the mean, so we sometimes medicate people who fall on either end of this range.
Some of us, and probably many of us who habitually exercise, are instrinsically built to move a lot more than the average. Being one of those who must move, I feel that the average movement requirements are a bit more than a typical desk-job affords, but I cannot deny that sedentary outliers also exist, who are in no way harmed by their average movement patterns, just as many super-athletes aren't harmed by their movement which would harm others.

Edit:
I have to move a certain amount or I feel different kinds of bad. While I love hiking, climbing trees, swimming, caving, diving, digging, gardening, building things, and all manner of other productive movements, I also appreciate the feeling of moving on a treadmill. The physical act of movement is pleasurable in my body, so while I recognise why an hour on a treadmill may be obvious meaningless vanity, the experience is rewarding in itself. While I would prefer to hike to a waterfall, I can run on a treadmill during my half hour lunch break, but I need about three hours to hike; gyms may be less wonderful, but they are often more convenient
Some very excellent points @parallax and to my point in that your physical activities are pleasurable for you, you do not feel stressed or pressured to do them, I also presume that you do not feel pain before doing them or post exercise.
But caveat is this does the pleasure you feel from the activities result from oxytocin and produce positive anabolic types of hormone responses or is it a result of an adrenal gland response and cortisol response. There seems to be a fine line between these two aspects of physical activity.
 
OP
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Sorry if the following idea has already been alluded to in this thread.
There is a broad range of normal human behavior and traits; often conversations about 'evolutionary' diet and lifestyle is seeking to define a 'standard' human behavior that best matches who and what we are. Any investigation of human historical behavior will reveal that there is a wide range in the amount of daily physical movement people habitually do. In a classic bell curve, there are a few percent of people in any given group who are sedentary by disposition and a few percent who are so active that they will squirm and wriggle and try to escape if they are required to sit still. We tend to dislike behaviors that diverge too far from the mean, so we sometimes medicate people who fall on either end of this range.
Some of us, and probably many of us who habitually exercise, are instrinsically built to move a lot more than the average. Being one of those who must move, I feel that the average movement requirements are a bit more than a typical desk-job affords, but I cannot deny that sedentary outliers also exist, who are in no way harmed by their average movement patterns, just as many super-athletes aren't harmed by their movement which would harm others.

Edit:
I have to move a certain amount or I feel different kinds of bad. While I love hiking, climbing trees, swimming, caving, diving, digging, gardening, building things, and all manner of other productive movements, I also appreciate the feeling of moving on a treadmill. The physical act of movement is pleasurable in my body, so while I recognise why an hour on a treadmill may be obvious meaningless vanity, the experience is rewarding in itself. While I would prefer to hike to a waterfall, I can run on a treadmill during my half hour lunch break, but I need about three hours to hike; gyms may be less wonderful, but they are often more convenient.
I have always felt bad for the rambunctious little boys in school who always got in trouble for not staying in their seats. It is terrible how that healthy normal behavior is medicated. I don’t know that I have ever known a little girl on medication for ADHD. I am not even sure it exists at all.

I have always been the tge person who “will squirm and “wriggle and try to escape if they are required to sit still”, which has kept me from being a fan of television and movies. My inability to enjoy just sitting isn’t because my body has to keep moving, it is because my mind is bored. I think the two are connected, which is why I never enjoyed the gym, there is no brainwork involved there either though I am moving. I love everyday to have some sort of meaning and tv and the gym just don’t deliver.

“According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention , boys are three times more likely to receive an ADHD diagnosis than girls. This disparity isn't necessarily because girls are less susceptible to the disorder. Rather, it's likely because ADHD symptoms present differently in girls.“

 

parallax

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I have always felt bad for the rambunctious little boys in school who always got in trouble for not staying in their seats. It is terrible how that healthy normal behavior is medicated. I don’t know that I have ever known a little girl on medication for ADHD. I am not even sure it exists at all.

I have always been the tge person who “will squirm and “wriggle and try to escape if they are required to sit still”, which has kept me from being a fan of television and movies. My inability to enjoy just sitting isn’t because my body has to keep moving, it is because my mind is bored. I think the two are connected, which is why I never enjoyed the gym, there is no brainwork involved there either though I am moving. I love everyday to have some sort of meaning and tv and the gym just don’t deliver.

“According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention , boys are three times more likely to receive an ADHD diagnosis than girls. This disparity isn't necessarily because girls are less susceptible to the disorder. Rather, it's likely because ADHD symptoms present differently in girls.“

Its an interesting paradigm with many spots of ugliness and uncertainty. I am grateful to have a career that affords me the opportunity to be walking around, standing, or laying down in full lounge mode with very little sitting time at all. I was never described as ADHD when I was in school, and as an adult I'm not sure that my activity level is that far above average, as I do louge around a fair bit. I average about 12k steps daily whenever I've worn one of those thingies, never less than 4k or more than 29k. It is remarkable how uncomfortable sitting has become after several years of almost never really sitting. But on the other hand it has made it easier for me to be conscious of my posture while seated.
 

parallax

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Some very

Some very excellent points @parallax and to my point in that your physical activities are pleasurable for you, you do not feel stressed or pressured to do them, I also presume that you do not feel pain before doing them or post exercise.
But caveat is this does the pleasure you feel from the activities result from oxytocin and produce positive anabolic types of hormone responses or is it a result of an adrenal gland response and cortisol response. There seems to be a fine line between these two aspects of physical activity.
I certainly feel bad if I overwork my body or metabolism, but I'm not sure that it feels worse than underwork. Both are quite uncomfortable, and the pleasure of exercise is like a loosening of the joints and muscles, not like a massage but a bit like chiropractic adjustment in the sense that it feels like correctness, not like stimulation. Like the pleasure of drinking really excellent water, not like the pleasure of drinking orange juice or coffee. As far as the hormonal response I can only speculate, but the pleasure I am trying to describe is not primarily associated with Vo2 max training or heavy lifting, it is maximized by a relatively large volume of low-intensity exercise. I do not have any obvious symptoms of elevated cortisol or growth hormone (edema, hair loss, delayed wound healing, supressed heart rate variability...). But who knows? I'm always learning more.
 

J.R.K

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I certainly feel bad if I overwork my body or metabolism, but I'm not sure that it feels worse than underwork. Both are quite uncomfortable, and the pleasure of exercise is like a loosening of the joints and muscles, not like a massage but a bit like chiropractic adjustment in the sense that it feels like correctness, not like stimulation. Like the pleasure of drinking really excellent water, not like the pleasure of drinking orange juice or coffee. As far as the hormonal response I can only speculate, but the pleasure I am trying to describe is not primarily associated with Vo2 max training or heavy lifting, it is maximized by a relatively large volume of low-intensity exercise. I do not have any obvious symptoms of elevated cortisol or growth hormone (edema, hair loss, delayed wound healing, supressed heart rate variability...). But who knows? I'm always learning more.
Your understanding and knowledge of your body is paramount to what type of activities work best for your body. By no means should you take my comments as advice on how or what works best for your body. Just an observation from my own personal journey.
You are correct in that we all have different thresholds for physical/mental activity. Clearly small amounts of different substances that a body produces thyroid, progesterone or DHEA for example can cause huge differences in how much stress one organism can take versus another.
 
OP
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“The notion of ‘burning off’ food puts the focus firmly on cardio, because on paper, cardio appears to burn more calories than other forms of training. However, it’s actually strength training that alters your muscle to fat ratio and ultimately enhances your metabolism. The problem is, a 45-minute run will burn more calories than 45 minutes of strength training, but there’s more to it than the calories you burn in that session alone. The more strength training you do, the more you will tone and change your body’s shape – as well as increasing bone density – so there’s far more to it than calories in, calories out.”

 
OP
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Thank you for this one J.R.K, ! I’m gonna go rule up the starch eaters in my Starch Delicious Devil thread with it 😘
 
OP
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“Although Clive McKay's studies of life extension through caloric restriction were done in the 1930s, only a few studies have been done to find out which nutrients' restriction contributes most to extending the life span. Restricting toxic heavy metals, without restricting calories, produces about the same life-extending effect as caloric restriction. Restricting only tryptophan, or only cysteine, produces a greater extension of the life span than achieved in most of the studies of caloric restriction. How great would be the life-span extension if both tryptophan and cysteine were restricted at the same time?“ -Ray Peat
 

J.R.K

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“Although Clive McKay's studies of life extension through caloric restriction were done in the 1930s, only a few studies have been done to find out which nutrients' restriction contributes most to extending the life span. Restricting toxic heavy metals, without restricting calories, produces about the same life-extending effect as caloric restriction. Restricting only tryptophan, or only cysteine, produces a greater extension of the life span than achieved in most of the studies of caloric restriction. How great would be the life-span extension if both tryptophan and cysteine were restricted at the same time?“ -Ray Peat
My takeaway from this would be the quality of calories being more important than the quantity. Obviously there would be a variable determined by the rate of energy used based upon daily physical requirements. But the tryptophan, cysteine and I would also add iron, PUFA and methionine as well as the use of foods that mitigate and prevent the damages they cause.
 
OP
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My takeaway from this would be the quality of calories being more important than the quantity. Obviously there would be a variable determined by the rate of energy used based upon daily physical requirements. But the tryptophan, cysteine and I would also add iron, PUFA and methionine as well as the use of foods that mitigate and prevent the damages they cause.
Me too. Everybody keeps thinking they have to keep eating lots of calories, but like you said calories aren’t as important as what they have to offer.
 
OP
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I have always felt bad for the rambunctious little boys in school who always got in trouble for not staying in their seats. It is terrible how that healthy normal behavior is medicated. I don’t know that I have ever known a little girl on medication for ADHD. I am not even sure it exists at all.

I have always been the tge person who “will squirm and “wriggle and try to escape if they are required to sit still”, which has kept me from being a fan of television and movies. My inability to enjoy just sitting isn’t because my body has to keep moving, it is because my mind is bored. I think the two are connected, which is why I never enjoyed the gym, there is no brainwork involved there either though I am moving. I love everyday to have some sort of meaning and tv and the gym just don’t deliver.

“According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention , boys are three times more likely to receive an ADHD diagnosis than girls. This disparity isn't necessarily because girls are less susceptible to the disorder. Rather, it's likely because ADHD symptoms present differently in girls.“

This past week I went six days in a row without tv, until last night, I turned it in for 3 hours. I felt so much better this week without it, and slept better too. I wouldn’t doubt that I would be diagnosed with that ADHD nonsense, as I am not easily mesmerized. I remember in my twenties when my husband would turn the tv on at night, it was time for me to go bake brownies or catch up on a phone call or anything else I could find to do. He complained about that. I struggle in the movie theater sometimes to stay awake, as movies nowadays are so predictable. I love grounding, and do it for an hour or even 3 lately, as it energizes me, so I can sit still, it is just that television, it gets me antsy, bored and even irritable.
 
OP
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“Incidental stresses, such as strenuous exercise combined with fasting (e.g., running or working before eating breakfast) not only directly trigger the production of lactate and ammonia, they also are likely to increase the absorption of bacterial endotoxin from the intestine. Endotoxin is a ubiquitous and chronic stressor. It increases lactate and nitric oxide, poisoning mitochondrial respiration, precipitating the secretion of the adaptive stress hormones, which don't always fully repair the cellular damage.” -Ray Peat
 

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