Aging and disease are the same process, driven by low metabolism

[haidut]

I am posting about this mostly due to its "told you so" factor - i.e. more and more professionals in the medical and research fields are starting to realize that the super-specialized approach to treating chronic diseases has not produced any substantial results. In addition, the correlation between age and chronic diseases has pushed scientists to explore the connection between the two issues and a consensus has started to form that there is nothing "natural" about aging, just as there is nothing "natural" about developing say cancer, diabetes or a neurological disease. In fact, as the researchers have started to realize, chronic diseases share all of their features with aging and can be viewed as nothing more than premature aging of specific organ/tissue. More importantly, scientists have started to realize that the common cause underpinning both aging and diseases is mitochondrial hypofunction/dysfunction, which is another way of saying that both aging and diseases are driven by low metabolism. Let's hope this sentiment and approach that has already established itself in certain research circles takes over the more practical fields (such as medicine) as well.

To fight diseases of aging, scientist makes aging itself the target

"...“If we could pause, delay or even reverse aging, we would make a significant impact against numerous diseases,” said Guo, professor of neurology, molecular and medical pharmacology at the David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA. “I want to create a higher quality of life over a healthy life span, rather than just prolonging life.” Her particular approach to her research is inspired by her compassion for her patients who have Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s diseases and other brain degenerative disorders, and from the discoveries she has made in her research lab. The percentage of people with Alzheimer's doubles every five years after the age of 65, so Guo believes that intervening in the aging process could be the path to reducing the disease’s massive impact. Slowing aging could also help combat a range of other diseases and conditions, including Parkinson’s disease, heart disease, cancer and osteoporosis, as well as the increased vulnerability to infection that occurs with aging."

"...There’s now a body of research indicating that damaged mitochondria contribute to premature aging, and their implications for human health stretch beyond one illness. “Dysfunctional mitochondria are associated with not only Parkinson’s disease, but also other neurodegenerative diseases, cancer, diabetes and heart disease,” Guo said. “So we asked, ‘Is it possible for us to reverse this damaged mitochondrial signature?’” Mitochondria have their own genetic materials — distinct from those in the cell’s nucleus — and exploring mitochondrial DNA has become a signature of Guo’s research. In one of her recent studies, a collaboration with Caltech researchers, Guo and her colleagues discovered how to reverse up to 95% of the damage to mitochondrial DNA in animals."

 

[DeadCatBounce]

Haidut, I have the same view for a long time that aging is simply not normal thus been trying to stay young since 19yo just to prove my point to the people around me. 34yo now looking better each year with more spark in the eyes. My SO is now 28 yo and looks 16 ( : Been together for 5+ years and managed to convert her. The older part of the family is very hard to converse with regarding those things. Some even got the covid shots... So there is no hope for some of them.

When I was child and watched all my grandparents and their friends(наборите им) die from terrible diseases, usually diabetes and their limbs were cut off little by little until there was nothing left, people falling asleep in the middle of conversation, mutiple strokes causing paralysis etc etc I simply could not accept this reality.

May i ask you something - what do you think is waters role in aging ? When I see 100+ year old person - what I see is a severly dehydrated organism. Are the kidneys health key or there is something else in play ? Or both.

Do you believe Deuterium has a key role ? I am undecided on this one.

Thanks in advance !

Also, thank you for all the info, watched your interviews in Bulgarian. Opened my eyes for a few things that I missed. everytime I make a mistake it is because I believed the mainstream narrative too much. And I never believe the mainstream ! Sometimes i just loose my eyes off the ball.

 

[Xemnoraq]

@haidut Great post man, this is a really interesting topic, which then brings up what Ray says chronically, it is the accumulation of PUFA with age that is responsible for the metabolic decline associated with aging, so it then raises the question, is it possible to prevent the accumulation of PUFA with aging? it seems easy, just don't eat PUFA but Ray seems to talk about it as if its something that can only be mitigated and not avoided completely.

If we burn off more PUFA then we take in theoretically we are preventing the accumulation of PUFA in general and with age. So the question then becomes, what is the threshhold of PUFA intake? for me myself i basically do a fat free diet mostly except my supper usually has a bit of low fat cheese in it, rice with cheese or scallops etc. get about a max of 0.5 to 1g of PUFA a day.

So if restricting PUFA isnt enough what about other ways?

I know exercise is controversial on here but could it not be argued that proper stimulation with exercise is an effective way to prevent the accumulation of PUFA? i mean exercise that is beneficial and not destructive, exercise that is fun and stimulating.

For me I do parkour and gymnastics where me and my friends for an hour or two will run around in the gym doing flips off of foam blocks and doing giant cat jumps and obstacle courses (the funnest stuff you could ever do for exercise.. just all around really fun engaging stimulating stuff thats short burst take rest do the flip or trick line again, its great cardio and very stimulating mentally and keeps me very slim and feeling great. I also lift weights and do powerlifting type exercises with some hypertrophic accessory work mixed in.

Exercise makes me feel amazing, and in these last two years because of the mandatory bull**** i was not able to ever see a gym or get sufficient physical activity for the last 2 years, and because of that i have felt like ***t, and developed even a bit of abdomen fat the cortisol type fat.

So since the muscles can effectively burn and detoxify the toxic fats, would it not be fair to say living a hibernative sedentary lifestyle is just a recipe for PUFA accumulation? and the opposite being exercise (proper stimulation) can be a really effective method to make sure any PUFA that does come in gets effectively burnt off or you just keep cycling through your fat stores.

Can we prevent PUFA from accumulating with age by restricting it in the diet and maintaining a high enough metabolic rate through physical stimulation?

 

[Xemnoraq]

If exercise does help prevent PUFA accumulation then we gotta get Ray doin more then just his 10 situps challenge every 7 years to see where he stands ahahaha jk he said that on a podcast one time where someone asks him if he works out and he said something like every 7 years he does a few situps to see where his strength is something like that it was too funny, classic Ray moment ?

 

[johnwester130]

@haidut Great post man, this is a really interesting topic, which then brings up what Ray says chronically, it is the accumulation of PUFA with age that is responsible for the metabolic decline associated with aging, so it then raises the question, is it possible to prevent the accumulation of PUFA with aging? it seems easy, just don't eat PUFA but Ray seems to talk about it as if its something that can only be mitigated and not avoided completely.

If we burn off more PUFA then we take in theoretically we are preventing the accumulation of PUFA in general and with age. So the question then becomes, what is the threshhold of PUFA intake? for me myself i basically do a fat free diet mostly except my supper usually has a bit of low fat cheese in it, rice with cheese or scallops etc. get about a max of 0.5 to 1g of PUFA a day.

So if restricting PUFA isnt enough what about other ways?

I know exercise is controversial on here but could it not be argued that proper stimulation with exercise is an effective way to prevent the accumulation of PUFA? i mean exercise that is beneficial and not destructive, exercise that is fun and stimulating.

For me I do parkour and gymnastics where me and my friends for an hour or two will run around in the gym doing flips off of foam blocks and doing giant cat jumps and obstacle courses (the funnest stuff you could ever do for exercise.. just all around really fun engaging stimulating stuff thats short burst take rest do the flip or trick line again, its great cardio and very stimulating mentally and keeps me very slim and feeling great. I also lift weights and do powerlifting type exercises with some hypertrophic accessory work mixed in.

Exercise makes me feel amazing, and in these last two years because of the mandatory bull**** i was not able to ever see a gym or get sufficient physical activity for the last 2 years, and because of that i have felt like ***t, and developed even a bit of abdomen fat the cortisol type fat.

So since the muscles can effectively burn and detoxify the toxic fats, would it not be fair to say living a hibernative sedentary lifestyle is just a recipe for PUFA accumulation? and the opposite being exercise (proper stimulation) can be a really effective method to make sure any PUFA that does come in gets effectively burnt off or you just keep cycling through your fat stores.

Can we prevent PUFA from accumulating with age by restricting it in the diet and maintaining a high enough metabolic rate through physical stimulation?

Eating coconut oil, in theory should dilute the PUFa out of the body

Vitamin E, taurine also stop the PUFa damage

 

[Xemnoraq]

Eating coconut oil, in theory should dilute the PUFa out of the body

Vitamin E, taurine also stop the PUFa damage

What you mentioned about coconut oil was interesting, Ray even expressed caution on overusing coconut oil as if the small amount in it could be harmful or accumulate, does eating saturated fat actually physically expel PUFA from the body though? my understanding was that it temporarily negated its toxic effect by being anti-inflammatory, does it actually deplete your PUFA though? I know that eating saturated fats increases the ratio of saturated to unsaturated fats helping greatly with the problem in theory if thats true we could all just maximize our sugar intake and make saturated fats de novo lipogensis from sugar, because sugar is devoid of any pufa obviously being that its a pure substance

 

[johnwester130]

What you mentioned about coconut oil was interesting, Ray even expressed caution on overusing coconut oil as if the small amount in it could be harmful or accumulate, does eating saturated fat actually physically expel PUFA from the body though? my understanding was that it temporarily negated its toxic effect by being anti-inflammatory, does it actually deplete your PUFA though? I know that eating saturated fats increases the ratio of saturated to unsaturated fats helping greatly with the problem in theory if thats true we could all just maximize our sugar intake and make saturated fats de novo lipogensis from sugar, because sugar is devoid of any pufa obviously being that its a pure substance

Coconut Oil

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

The last 2 parahraphs suggest that coconut oil can remove PUFA

 

[Xemnoraq]

This was actually my first ever Ray article i've read i may have missed that, thanks man! i'll check it out

 

[BRBsavinWorld]

Aaawwe YISSS ?

 

[TheSir]

34yo now looking better each year with more spark in the eyes. My SO is now 28 yo and looks 16 ( :

What have you been doing to make this possible? I'd be interested to see pics of you two!

 

[ThinPicking]

May i ask you something - what do you think is waters role in aging ? When I see 100+ year old person - what I see is a severly dehydrated organism. Are the kidneys health key or there is something else in play ? Or both.

There's something in this. Maybe a holy grail of sorts.

Check out @md_a's excellent "RENIN-ANGIOTENSIN-ALDOSTERONE SYSYTEM And HAIR LOSS PROCESS" thread.

 

[Regina]

@haidut Great post man, this is a really interesting topic, which then brings up what Ray says chronically, it is the accumulation of PUFA with age that is responsible for the metabolic decline associated with aging, so it then raises the question, is it possible to prevent the accumulation of PUFA with aging? it seems easy, just don't eat PUFA but Ray seems to talk about it as if its something that can only be mitigated and not avoided completely.

If we burn off more PUFA then we take in theoretically we are preventing the accumulation of PUFA in general and with age. So the question then becomes, what is the threshhold of PUFA intake? for me myself i basically do a fat free diet mostly except my supper usually has a bit of low fat cheese in it, rice with cheese or scallops etc. get about a max of 0.5 to 1g of PUFA a day.

So if restricting PUFA isnt enough what about other ways?

I know exercise is controversial on here but could it not be argued that proper stimulation with exercise is an effective way to prevent the accumulation of PUFA? i mean exercise that is beneficial and not destructive, exercise that is fun and stimulating.

For me I do parkour and gymnastics where me and my friends for an hour or two will run around in the gym doing flips off of foam blocks and doing giant cat jumps and obstacle courses (the funnest stuff you could ever do for exercise.. just all around really fun engaging stimulating stuff thats short burst take rest do the flip or trick line again, its great cardio and very stimulating mentally and keeps me very slim and feeling great. I also lift weights and do powerlifting type exercises with some hypertrophic accessory work mixed in.

Exercise makes me feel amazing, and in these last two years because of the mandatory bull**** i was not able to ever see a gym or get sufficient physical activity for the last 2 years, and because of that i have felt like ***t, and developed even a bit of abdomen fat the cortisol type fat.

So since the muscles can effectively burn and detoxify the toxic fats, would it not be fair to say living a hibernative sedentary lifestyle is just a recipe for PUFA accumulation? and the opposite being exercise (proper stimulation) can be a really effective method to make sure any PUFA that does come in gets effectively burnt off or you just keep cycling through your fat stores.

Can we prevent PUFA from accumulating with age by restricting it in the diet and maintaining a high enough metabolic rate through physical stimulation?

The exercise, as you describe it, sounds excellent. It's not exhaustive exercise causing air hunger. The starting and stopping is also great. @Hans has written some cool stuff on series of explosive sprints.
I used to do stunt training in the same manner you described. Our lead instructor was a former serious gymnast. We trained in a big gym with mats up the walls and bouncy floors. We made obstacle parkour-type courses, then we might work on high-falls or jerklines or a running tramp or zipline and loads of fake fights. A lot of starting and stopping--nothing long term or endurance. The only time we might get out of breath was from laughing so hard at each other when we would watch our fake fights afterwards on the big screen.
However, if you really do parkour around the city, that could be pushing it.
Aikido was also good for a lot of starting and stopping. And the stopping meant kneeling quietly and slow breathing. There is no talking which is also good. But they make you test and you are expected to nearly die on the mat. I hate that mentality.

 

[Regina]

I am posting about this mostly due to its "told you so" factor - i.e. more and more professionals in the medical and research fields are starting to realize that the super-specialized approach to treating chronic diseases has not produced any substantial results. In addition, the correlation between age and chronic diseases has pushed scientists to explore the connection between the two issues and a consensus has started to form that there is nothing "natural" about aging, just as there is nothing "natural" about developing say cancer, diabetes or a neurological disease. In fact, as the researchers have started to realize, chronic diseases share all of their features with aging and can be viewed as nothing more than premature aging of specific organ/tissue. More importantly, scientists have started to realize that the common cause underpinning both aging and diseases is mitochondrial hypofunction/dysfunction, which is another way of saying that both aging and diseases are driven by low metabolism. Let's hope this sentiment and approach that has already established itself in certain research circles takes over the more practical fields (such as medicine) as well.

To fight diseases of aging, scientist makes aging itself the target

"...“If we could pause, delay or even reverse aging, we would make a significant impact against numerous diseases,” said Guo, professor of neurology, molecular and medical pharmacology at the David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA. “I want to create a higher quality of life over a healthy life span, rather than just prolonging life.” Her particular approach to her research is inspired by her compassion for her patients who have Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s diseases and other brain degenerative disorders, and from the discoveries she has made in her research lab. The percentage of people with Alzheimer's doubles every five years after the age of 65, so Guo believes that intervening in the aging process could be the path to reducing the disease’s massive impact. Slowing aging could also help combat a range of other diseases and conditions, including Parkinson’s disease, heart disease, cancer and osteoporosis, as well as the increased vulnerability to infection that occurs with aging."

"...There’s now a body of research indicating that damaged mitochondria contribute to premature aging, and their implications for human health stretch beyond one illness. “Dysfunctional mitochondria are associated with not only Parkinson’s disease, but also other neurodegenerative diseases, cancer, diabetes and heart disease,” Guo said. “So we asked, ‘Is it possible for us to reverse this damaged mitochondrial signature?’” Mitochondria have their own genetic materials — distinct from those in the cell’s nucleus — and exploring mitochondrial DNA has become a signature of Guo’s research. In one of her recent studies, a collaboration with Caltech researchers, Guo and her colleagues discovered how to reverse up to 95% of the damage to mitochondrial DNA in animals."

I wonder if she will ever come to the conclusion of post's title. If she will or be allowed to chuck the genetic route, then maybe.

 

[DeadCatBounce]

There's something in this. Maybe a holy grail of sorts.

Check out @md_a's excellent "RENIN-ANGIOTENSIN-ALDOSTERONE SYSYTEM And HAIR LOSS PROCESS" thread.

Thanks! Something new to read and digest.

 

[DeadCatBounce]

What have you been doing to make this possible? I'd be interested to see pics of you two!

Obsessed with quality of food since very young age. Also, gathering the light of early morning sun,proper breathing techniques,sleeping during the day whenever possible and KEY is physiognomy !

The soul which is missing in modern medicine is key(if provided the right meterials). Without clear thought and keeping and nurishing “the child inside” optimal health is not possible imho even if the absolute best food is consumed.

 

[tfcjesse]

The exercise, as you describe it, sounds excellent. It's not exhaustive exercise causing air hunger. The starting and stopping is also great. @Hans has written some cool stuff on series of explosive sprints.
I used to do stunt training in the same manner you described. Our lead instructor was a former serious gymnast. We trained in a big gym with mats up the walls and bouncy floors. We made obstacle parkour-type courses, then we might work on high-falls or jerklines or a running tramp or zipline and loads of fake fights. A lot of starting and stopping--nothing long term or endurance. The only time we might get out of breath was from laughing so hard at each other when we would watch our fake fights afterwards on the big screen.
However, if you really do parkour around the city, that could be pushing it.
Aikido was also good for a lot of starting and stopping. And the stopping meant kneeling quietly and slow breathing. There is no talking which is also good. But they make you test and you are expected to nearly die on the mat. I hate that mentality.

Is exercise that gets you out of breath bad? Boxing, stuff that requires stamina etc.. can you explain or point to reasons it's bad? Think I saw it before around here something co2 related...

 

[Neeters 27]

Aging is a consequence of Hormone Loss. plain and simple. Replace the hormones, and aging is halted in its tracks. start hormone replacement as young as possible, especially for women, dont wait till Menopause, deal with hormones before. Myself, and friends who are on Bio identicals such as Thyroid, Progesterone, Pregnenolone, Dhea and sometimes Estrogen, we all look at least 10 to 15 years younger, have NO skeletal issues, have energy, thick luscious hair, vibrancy is still OURS. I am aging in REVERSE. No bone loss, perfect teeth and gums, oily skin, ALL because we take replacement hormones.

 

[rayfan1]

Eating coconut oil, in theory should dilute the PUFa out of the body

Vitamin E, taurine also stop the PUFa damage

Why not ghee , butter and tallow?

 

[Neeters 27]

There's something in this. Maybe a holy grail of sorts.

Check out @md_a's excellent "RENIN-ANGIOTENSIN-ALDOSTERONE SYSYTEM And HAIR LOSS PROCESS" thread.

the older you are, the less hormones you have, therefore bone loss, hair loss, low hormones cause aging! thats why old people shrink and look dehydrated. they dont have enough collagen in and under the skin to look smooth! hormones, collagen intake, vitamin C, all help build collagen. old people are DEPLETED. Im replacing my hormones and look younger every day :)11 years of bio identical HRT and Peat-ish diet. it works

 

[johnwester130]

Why not ghee , butter and tallow?

Coconut oil is about 30 per cent more saturated than butter and ghee. The effect is more pronounced