Afternoon Exhaustion

Discussion in 'Messtafarian' started by messtafarian, Aug 5, 2014.

  1. messtafarian

    messtafarian Member

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    Hi All!

    It's been quite a while since I posted here but I feel like I've been bugging Dr. Ray a bit too much and I have a general question you guys might know the answer to.

    Why. Am I so. Freakin *exhausted*. In the afternoons?

    My day will start like this: I will wake up around 7 feeling very clear. I'll have lots of clear thoughts and internal comments on my general performance in life and what I want to get done and so on. I'll usually get on my computer and get on Evernote and plan my day, and then get one or two good hours in Doing Stuff, or thinking about stuff, or whatever.

    Around 11ish I'll feel like I need to eat something, usually cheese and fruit -- sometimes I'll fry a tortilla in coconut oil and eat that, sometimes cheese and honey or a grilled cheese on ONE slice of fatfree sourdough. Etc.

    Then between 2 and 3 in the afternoon, I just crash. SO tired, nothing left, like I'm on some kind of sedative. I will not be able to think so then I'll start going for the sugar to see if I can get some energy back but it DOES NOT WORK AT ALL. I have no energy left to think or exercise and I'll just want to go to bed. I just drag around, kind of whacked out, getting sort of depressed and confused that I don't have the clarity I did that morning.

    Then around 7 my energy will start to climb again and by 10 PM at the latest I'm much better. I'll find myself doing a workout or something because I have the energy to do it and then I'll be actively thinking and posting on FB and surfing stuff I'm thinking about -- this is all I can do because it's TOO LATE to do anything else.

    Then I'll fall asleep around midnight or one.

    Rinse and repeat.

    Now it seems to me that I should be able to get some decent energy hours in between 2 and 10. That's a whole eight hours I am not really functioning.

    Is there a hormonal reason this is happening? Are there some fixes you can think of? I don't feel like sugar is working, I drink plenty of coffee, I think I am reasonably hydrated.

    I do not feel cold and my temps are okay in the afternoon.

    I'm taking aspirin, thyroid, k2, calcium, on and off pregnenolone ( just restarted a round) and my bp meds these days and that's all. The thyroid is an OTC desiccated glandular.

    Any thoughts?

    Thanks!
     
  2. Peata

    Peata Member

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    Hi, good to hear from you again.

    I am interested in any answers you get because I have a similar experience. Not necessarily every day, and unlike you I often tend to get sleepy for bed around 10:30 - 11:30 p.m. (though I don't always give in and go to sleep at that time).

    For example, yesterday - I started out with energy, clarity, ambition, etc. I worked out around noon, picked up a few things at the store and ate when I got home. From about 1 p.m. to 4 p.m. I felt almost drugged, like I'd taken a small dose of Benadryl (which I didn't take anything). Lost the clarity and energy and was frustrated about it. Because it was like a cloud around me that I couldn't just wipe away and get on with things. I had coffee, and it seemed to help some. By 5 - 6 p.m. I was much better and later I had plenty of energy and went walking. But again, by bedtime hours I was wound down and ready for bed. Maybe it helped that I took an epsom/baking soda bath after the walk.

    I wonder about hormones too, but this seems to happen all around the cycle.

    I don't think it's blood sugar because I try to eat balanced meals.

    Do you notice improvement in energy after having a larger, denser meal? Because last night around 6 I ate a plate of chicken fried rice that I made and boy, did I feel heat and energy. Adding: But that could have been coincidence since I was starting to feel a little more lively at that time anyway.
     
  3. OP
    messtafarian

    messtafarian Member

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    Hi Peata:

    The only thing I can think of in reference to that is that by *around 7 PM* I've actually eaten the bulk of my calories for the day. I am not very hungry in the morning and start with coffee and milk, maybe a little fruit or cheese but just not much. Then around 11 I'll want a meal and after that I just sort of keep eating through the fog. So by 7 I'll have put away at least 13-1500 calories and my energy will start to improve.

    But that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If I take a spoonful of honey or two when I start to go South -- if it's *food* I need then the sugar should work. But it doesn't.

    I have been considering just letting myself nap during the worst of it but I hate to do that because I don't want to mess up my circadian rhythm when darkness falls. What I want is good sleep at night and full energy during the day.
     
  4. 5magicbeans

    5magicbeans Member

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    Niacinamide improved my afternoon fatigue. I use solaray brand 500 mg. 1 or 2 x a day...
     
  5. OP
    messtafarian

    messtafarian Member

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    Hm, ok thanks 5magic :)
     
  6. Peata

    Peata Member

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    It's been a while since I took Niacinamide. I remember it was giving me headaches if I didn't eat a lot of food all the time. I may give it another try though if this problem can't be worked out soon. Thanks, 5MB.
     
  7. 5magicbeans

    5magicbeans Member

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    I usually take it with sweetened lowfat milk :)
     
  8. Peata

    Peata Member

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    I have this thought that, at least in my case, it could be partly due to too much liquid, not enough food and not enough solid food during the daytime.

    I usually don't feel that hungry in the a.m. and just have my coffee (with dairy & sugar). Sometimes I'll have some food. Today for example I had a few bites of cookie. I have carbonated water to take supplements.

    Lunch might be something like Greek yogurt with fruit and honey. Or cottage cheese with tomato and a bit of homemade dressing. Or crackers and cheese with a few olive, or slices of toasted bread and goat milk cheese. Or a small plate of leftovers from the dinner before. Something along those lines. And another cup or two of something to drink.

    I'm wondering if it's too little food (even if that's all I seem to have the appetite for) and too much liquidy food. Many of the things I listed that I eat for lunch on a typical day are liquidy or would quickly break down to liquid. In the afternoon I often have more coffee with milk and sugar.

    Dinner I'm usually real hungry and eat a dense meal. After that, it's more liquid, maybe fruit or something later.

    So maybe the energy malfunction in the afternoon is too little food and/or a diluted system - too waterlogged to produce energy.

    Messtafarian, you said you eat the bulk of your calories during the day. Is a lot of the calories coming from liquids or foods that are "liquidy"? I'm just thinking on this....
     
  9. OP
    messtafarian

    messtafarian Member

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    Well, I'm always sipping on something during the day but I live in SW Florida so I also lose fluids just generally. Since I got down here my urine is usually too scant and not the other way around. I keep thinking I actually don't get *enough* fluids for that reason.

    I read something online this morning about the core body temperature taking a natural dip in the middle of the day which tends to cause drowsiness. I'm actually wondering if I should just take another half of a thyroid tablet around 2 PM.
     
  10. SQu

    SQu Member

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    Great question! I'd also love answers. I have a similar pattern. For years. I've been blaming a bad lunch. I have failure of imagination when it comes to a low starch lunch. Tend to just snack, probably when I'm already too low in blood sugar. Sometimes I've checked pulse to find it high though it didn't feel that way. My guess is adrenaline gets me halfway through the afternoon, peters out late afternoon which is when I ache the worst.
    Sugar seldom helps get me out of this hole. I suspect I'm not great at using sugar. I also suspect this is a key point.
    But it might not be the lunch.
    I ache badly too, get grumpy. Take aspirin, tea at this time of day. Get lower back ache.
    I sleep badly too so understand the desire not to mess up circadian rhythms further with daytime naps.
    I too think liquid might play a role. suspect it's slowed my progress.
    While It's still bad, I have had big improvements in afternoon slumps since taking t3 and niacinamide.
     
  11. OP
    messtafarian

    messtafarian Member

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    Interesting. I can't get t3 legally or I would have tried it already. There is the coffee/aspirin thing to try, and I suppose if that worked it would be something that could be corrected by thyroid.
     
  12. HDD

    HDD Member

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    And remember that coffee boosts metabolism which requires more nutrients. I learned this lesson from increasing the strength of my coffee. In fact doubling the grounds in the a.m. caused me to start having blood sugar issues. It took me a few days to figure out why I was having issues. Coke or Pepsi is my go to if oj doesn't work to feel "right" again.
     
  13. OP
    messtafarian

    messtafarian Member

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    Hm, that's an interesting point. Thanks Diane :)

    Today I ate a plate of scrambled egg containing one egg, an ounce of cheddar and a couple thin slices of shaved beef cooked in butter, and about two handfuls of cherries. Couple of cups of coffee with milk and one with coconut oil, and I do make them strong. That's pretty balanced nutrition so far so we'll see how I feel in an hour.
     
  14. Peata

    Peata Member

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    So far I'm feeling awesome after about 1.25 c. leftover chicken fried rice, eaten at 12:45. After that I had a cup of milk that also had gelatin, sugar, and some strawberry syrup. I sipped that over about an hour rather than dilute my stomach contents all at once. Over an hour after the food - no fatigue, still clear and motivated.
     
  15. OP
    messtafarian

    messtafarian Member

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    OK...so there's some evidence for the liquid theory...
     
  16. HDD

    HDD Member

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    I don't know if any of this info is new or not.

    From RP email exchanges-

    "Small meals help to increase the metabolic rate, single big meals increase fat storage.

    There are just occasional intervals when I'm not eating---cafe con leche several times a day, other things in between.

    Frequent meals are helpful during hypothyroidism, and help to prevent obesity, but when the thyroid and liver are working, 2, 3, or 4 meals are good. For me, 2 meals and some snacks are most convenient. Orange juice is good by itself.

    Yes, as the metabolism gets more effective, you don't have to eat as often as when you are starting to change. At first, when glycogen isn't being stored, temperature will rise and fall situationally."
     
  17. Peata

    Peata Member

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    I felt my blood sugar dropping about 2 hours after I ate, so I had 1/2 c. milk and a banana. Had 1/2 t. coconut oil off a spoon. I added a dash of salt to the milk.

    Now it's 1.5 hour later and I'm feeling like having another little snack **actually had a big blood sugar drop so quickly made an egg salad sandwich and ate some prunes.. I'm good now.

    And then it will be dinner in the next couple hours. I've resisted my usual habit of drinking beverages with and between meals.

    So I've made it to 4:30 with no fatigue like yesterday. I figure I'm home free at this point. I don't know if it was due to more solid meals. I could have just been having a good day, metabolically. I think tomorrow will be the real test. I work out again, so that will use up energy, plus I'm right around ovulation and I got hit with some issues when it happened last time.

    Keep discussing, everyone. Glad you brought this up, Mess.
     
  18. Surfari

    Surfari Member

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    13-1500 calories wouldn't be enough for me. Right now I'm shooting for 2200, and I'm not sure if that's enough.

    Sometimes when I get tired in the afternoon I can't tell if I need food or sleep. So if I can, I do both, have some milk and juice then take a nap. Usually sleeping in the afternoon does not mess up my sleep at night.
     
  19. tara

    tara Member

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    I am the same if I eat that lightly during the morning.
    For me, I always do better if I eat lots in the morning. Trying to catch up in the afternoon once my energy has started to slump seldom works. Ideally, I keep snacking from breakfast to lunch, and eat my main protein meal at 11 or 12ish (including lots of carbs). I don't count calories at all rigorously, but I would guess that when I get it right I'm eating at least 1500cal before 1pm. If I do that, my energy is much better all afternoon, and I don't need to snack anywhere near as much in the afternoon and evening. I eat a lighter dinner (often soup) and supper (eg cheesecake). I still drink OJ and milk coffee through the afternoon too though, and snack when I feel like it.
    For a while I was working where everyone went for their main meal about 11:30am. That was great for me. Where I grew up and live now, the culture is for large evening meals, and lots of people eat like sparrows for breakfast and lunch. I think that was key component contributing to my health issues - weak, fuzzy, dizzy in the afternoons, almost to fainting sometimes, I assume from hypoglycemia. These days, I can't align my family around my habits and needs, so I often cook a meal in the evening, and save mine to heat for lunch next day.

    I've heard (RBTI, not Peat), that many people have a natural 24 blood sugar cycle that falls in the morning, is at it's lowest at midday, and rises again in the afternoon and evening. They recommend a solid breakfast while its falling, and a main meal (including main protein) midday when it's in the trough.

    I think Peat has also recommended most protein during the day (and balanced with carbs etc), rather than the evening.

    I suspect that not only do I need to eat this way to keep my blood sugar up at the time, but that it may also be when I am most efficient at using protein and storing glycogen for later.

    I know not every one is like me on this - but some of it might apply.
     
  20. OP
    messtafarian

    messtafarian Member

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    I had a much better day today, too -- and I wonder if it's because I ate a pretty substantial protein meal in the morning instead of just nibbling til slightly after noon. It might be just hunger and my body trying to catch up.

    The 12-1300 calories was as of late afternoon -- no later than five PM. I am trying to stay around 2200 also; but that's at a caloric deficit since I'm trying to lose 15 pounds or so. I think my real caloric burn is about 2400-2600; especially when I am eating to support thyroid function.
     
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