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Advice On Starting Testosterone Base?

  1. 35, male, thinking about trying testosterone base. Never taken any form of testosterone before.

    Been reading everything on testosterone on the forum and am still a little confused and undecided. My goal is just to feel overall better then I do now. I'd like to have more energy, better mood, more pep in my step, and all the things that seem to come along with more test. I have been trying Thyroid and small amounts of Preg, Prog, DHEA, Andro, 11-keto DHT for years -- always under 5mgs or so depending on which one - basically I follow the recommended guidelines on here. I have seen some good results both psychologically (which I care much more about) as well as physically, and that makes me want see what test could do. My diet/supplementation is as good as I think it will ever be.

    The thing that makes me want to try it is that it seems that Testosterone would be just another beneficial hormone to add to the mix if it was easily available. I think many here would have already tried it based on the studies/discussions presented here and things Ray has said. I used to think Testosterone was some crazy big deal with some well-deserved stigma attached, but I now feel differently. I think if used in smaller amounts it could be just another beneficial hormone.

    Ray has said: "It’s essential to have everything else in place, thyroid, calcium, magnesium, protein, vitamin D, vitamin E, pregnenolone, DHEA; then one milligram per day can have very strong effects, quickly." It also came out that he is (or was) using 1mg dissolved in vitamin E on lips/gums.

    I would want to do something similar, maybe up to 3mgs. I dont think this would cause shutdown, so my plan would be just to try it and see how it effects me and how I feel. If I feel good, I'd keep using it, just the same way I use many of the other steroids I listed. Maybe take it a few days/weeks then take some time off and get to understand how it effects me by trial and error.

    Basically just wanted to ask is does this sound like a reasonable plan? Or am I overlooking something that I could wind up regretting? Also I have never dissolved a raw powder before...is a good way to do it just to measure it out and then put some vitamin E on it and mix it with your finger and then put it on ur gums or is it more complex then that? You cant just eat the powder right? Thanks for any advice.
     
  2. I'm in a similar situation!
     
  3. I have been using test base topically now for 2 months and it has been great.

    I made a topical, here is my recipe.
    30ml ethanol
    15ml MCT oil
    5ml Lanolin oil
    4 grams test base

    I use a heated magnetic mixer, but keep the temp low.

    I use 50cc of this morning and night on my nuts and 1 or 2 days a week don't use any (I know this is high but I am old, f-ed up and retarded, so you can save the preaching) when I tested 1 month after starting and 4 hrs after the morning application my levels were.

    Testosterone serum: 1423 ng/dl
    DHT: 314 ng/dl
    Estrogen, sensitive: 65 pg/ml

    This was without anything else. I have since added androsterone as it's a very effective aromitase inhibitor for me from experience and labs. Am I shut down? For sure. But when you have been following Peat stuff for years and messing with other option for years before that and never got over the 400, who cares? I'm not having anymore kids anyway haha!

    Of the TRT options I have tried over the years this is my favorite so far.

    Also why not just use DMSO? It's too harsh on my sensitive ball skin

    Maybe that helped...
     
  4. Take HCG and pregnenolone with it. Thats my advice. Do not use an AI. Low dose twice a week dose at 75 mgs cyp 2x a week.
     
  5. What kind of changes do you notice in terms of mood, energy levels and cognitive function coming from your previous measurement of 400ng/dl?
     
  6. I think base Test is pretty safe, especially compared to other forms. I think it's ridiculous that it's a controlled substance, but you should take that into account. Personally, I would take Pregnenolone in a dose of 10-15x, based on this study Pregnenolone (P5) fully prevents testicular atrophy due to steroid (ab)use or high estrogen – To Extract Knowledge from Matter

    I think an AI like exemestane would be useful. I am taking a lower dose of exemestane right now, and find it very helpful.

    I personally wouldn't mess with HCG. If you search the forum, you will find several concerns with that substance.
     
  7. Thanks for the article; it kind of makes me want to forget all about T, but, I've actually been back and forth on this for a long time because of article and posts like this, describing how Pregnenolone and/or prog/dhea/andro can give one all the benefits of T, but I've also come across allot that says a little T has its own powerful and unique benefits, which makes me want to try and see. If its good enough for Ray its good enough for me, is what Im thinking.

    But I have never tried, or even though about, using such high doses of Preg before. There is a thread on here that talks about the best dose of preg for androgens being 10mg a few times a day. Would you really use so much or even grams of the stuff at a time? It seems anything above 10mg at a time could go down the progesterone path and then become anti-test.

    So thats kind of where I been at - 10mg of preg, 5mg DHEA, a couple mgs of prog and Andro all here and there, aspirin, vitamins, some aminos - its all good stuff and I think its beneficial, but I guess im just looking for a little more and thought a couple mgs of T could be a powerful, and relatively low-risk addition.
     
  8. Personally, I am using 200 mg of Preg a day right now, along with 10 mg DHEA. I might go higher with DHEA, I know about the warnings here, but I think you can do a higher dose with that level of Preg, specifically because of that article. I have also done 100 mg of Preg a day in the past, never any negatives. I either get a lift in mood and energy, or don't notice any effects. Certainly nothing bad.

    If I could find a good doctor to work with, I wouldn't hesitate to use Test base with a prescription. If Test base also comes off the controlled substance list, I also would experiment with it. Other forms of T, I'm not so sure.
     
  9. Cool, I might give that a go as well. Where are you getting your pregnenolone from? Your taking it orally as a powder like that article?
     



  10. Last time I checked my T levels I was over 600 (40 years old at the time.) I've been tempted to experiment with the test base (1-3 mg per day) to see how much of a difference it makes. I haven't checked my levels in a while, but everything Ray says about "essential" before taking the test base has made all the difference for me. Getting over 2000 mg of calcium, daily sun (naked if possible) and protein intake over 100 daily have been the big keys for me. Again, I don't know my levels, but my libido is even stronger than a year ago than when the T levels were checked. I just don't think taking test base is the most important thing if you haven't checked the boxes for the "essential" stuff for a solid period of time.

    I haven't worked out with weights in a year as well so I imagine that would boost it up nicely, but it's kinda cool to see what dietary and leisure activity can do.
     
  11. Currently, I am taking Life Extension Pregenenolone. I have experimented with other brands as well. Yep, I find taking it orally to be easiest.
     
  12. He wasn't suggesting you take pregnenolone in lieu of T, if was saying if you ever need it, taking pregnenolone at a ratio of around 10:1 with T prevents testicular atrophy
     
  13. Over 2000mg of Calcium each day?
    Do you also take magnesium or other minerals alongside Calcium?
    Is this Calcium as a supplement or exclusively out of food?
     
  14. From food (milk, cheese and swiss chard.) The main source of magnesium comes from swiss chard (boiled.)

    And T3 based on how I feel daily.

    edit: I just started today with the milk powder pancake recipe inspired by Peat: milk powder pancakes | The Nutrition Coach

    Entire batch:
    - 38g of protein
    - 60g of carbohydrates
    - 6g of fat
    - 1120mg of Calcium

    I'm shooting for 2500 on average if I can to see if that boosts signs of higher T and overall health.
     
  15. How do you deal with possible constipation?
    Drinking orange juice? Use lots of T3 to avoid constipation?
     
  16. Who is this question directed to?

    If me, I never said I was constipated so I wouldn't have an answer for you.
     
  17. Yeah, I was asking you. Alright, I thought you might have some constipation might happen due to cheeses and calcium.
    I happen to get something like that if I go the cheese route, milk and calcium carbonate, especially if I eliminate gluten.
     
  18. I assume by other forms you mean testosterone with esters , why is test base any safer than test with esters?
     
  19. Haidut posted about it here- Oral free/base (unesterified) testosterone is more effective and safer than synthetic AAS – To Extract Knowledge from Matter

    I've seen good reviews of base test as well- Testosterone Without Ester Great Results

    I was given a trial of a TRT cream long ago by a doctor. Something was not right with it, I felt off and seemed to notice vision changes within a week. Don't know if that was a particular ester or an excepient or lack of other upstream hormones (Preg, DHEA) or an AI or some combination.
     
  20. I can't see anything that shows test base is any safer than test with esters..
     
  21. Well, the Haidut post claims that there is no benefits of esters over base test in either cost or effectiveness. He then shows that base test has no negative impact on the liver (and may actually cure many cases of cirrhosis), while synthetic versions can cause liver issues.

    "As the studies towards the end of the post demonstrate, not only is free/base T orally bioavailable, but even massive doses (400mg daily) have no negative side effects on the liver and in fact accelerates the activity of several liver detox enzymes. The latter effect is highly sought-after by Big Pharma and many drugs are currently being developed/tested with the hope that such a liver-metabolism-enhancing compound will be brought to market as it has tremendous potential for treating everything from obesity, to gyno, to side effects of toxic chemotherapy. Thus, as one of the studies below directly stated, artificial/synthetic T derivatives such as 17a-methylated varieties, 19-nortestosterone derivatives (and in general any other AAS with bizarre modifications to make them less metabolizable and longer acting) have no advantages over free/base T neither due to cost nor effectiveness. In fact, unlike the readily observed liver-toxicity (including liver cancer) from various synthetic AAS, using free/base T may actually cure 60%+ of even advanced cases of liver failure (cirrhosis), as confirmed by extensive human studies several decades ago.

    "So, what does that have to do with FDA’s recent T undecanoate approval? Well, according to one of the studies below, that specific T ester only works if it is dissolved in oil AND administered with a large meal containing significant amounts of fat. On the other hand, oral free/base T was absorbed without using any carriers or fatty meals. In addition, androgen esters often have unpredictable effects and in some cases may be even carcinogenic, while the free/base steroid is highly protective. It just so happens that the formulation FDA approved does NOT contain any oils as carrier/solvent and does not carry a recommendation to consume with a significant amount of fat. So, at best the formulation will be ineffective and at worst it may be carcinogenic."
     
  22. Email Ray ss most here are basing their usage on his research/experience.
     
  23. Test base costs much more than testosterone enanthate for example at 400mg a day? That would cost a ton ... Test enanthate you could inject once a week at 400mg and it would cost roughly 40 pounds a for like 10 weeks
    Where is the evidence testosterone attached to an ester cause liver problems? I'm not talking about 19 nor testosterone I'm talking about testosterone attached to esters ...
     
  24. Why would you have to take 400mg of Test Base a day? Where did you read that? And how did you come up with the idea that Test enanthate is just as effective at 1/7th the dose?
     
  25. This is really interesting, thanks for posting. I was actually thinking it was much safer to apply on skin and was looking into how to do that; its good to know oral is safe. So if you had raw test base powder, could you just measure out 1mg and eat it to get the benefits? Or do you have to mix it with something first and apply to the lips like Ray to really get it to absorb properly?

    Also, I had asked someone who seemed knowledgeable about Testosterone about micro dosing (even just 1mg) and they said: "there is not a way to take any amount Test without getting shutdown unless you use HCG as well, and even then you would still technically be shut down because your pituitary would still stop LH and FSH production"

    Do you think he is right about this? I was hoping to be able to use a small amount as more of a supplement; just adding maybe 1mg to what Im already producing endogenously. I don't think I'd want to use it if I'm going to get shutdown, because I dont think that would be healthy.
     
  26. According to the studies, you don't have to mix it with anything, but this is probably a YMMV sort of thing. Mixing it with Vitamin E and MCT/Coconut Oil certainly couldn't hurt.

    Personally, I don't think small doses (anything physiological) would shut you down, certainly not like larger doses would. If you can, ask him what he is basing that on. Some plants make phtyo androgens, and androgen rich organs have been eaten throughout history, so people (and animals) have been getting some amounts of exogenous androgens throughout their lives, and I don't think it would shut down their own androgen producing organs. I'm sure there is a feedback mechanism (or several). At the same time, some of the more severe effects of "shutdown" from TRT or AAS may be from the synthetic nature of steroids themselves.
     
  27. Good points. Also I think our levels may be different from day to day, so why would 1mg shut you down.

    Really... I thought bio-identical meant the body couldn't tell the difference. Edit: oh, youre talking about not bio-identical for many who do trt?
     
  28. Yes. I think most TRT (and pretty much all bodybuilders on "gear") are using some synthetic form. I think there can also be dangerous excepients, and often it's in some high PUFA oil carrier. I think injecting PUFA probably is worse than simply eating it.
     
  29. I saw 400mg on what you posted , I see now it's not saying to take that ... But to get the same dosage you would have to take lots more of test base orally than injecting test enanthate, but if you are injecting test base it is still more expensive than test enanthate ... I see no evidence test esters are bad.
     
  30. All testosterone is bio-identical .. unless you are talking about deca, Masteron etc.
     
  31. "cost a ton"?

    Test base costs 2$/gram dude, what are you even saying...
     
  32. And where does this test base come from? You always talk about test is cheap you can get it easily blah blah but you never share your sources ..
     
  33. Just looked on a source , for test base 100mg/ml 10ml cost 30 pounds .. I can get 300mg/ml 10ml of testosterone enanthate for 30
     
  34. I paid like $50 dollars for 30 grams
     
  35. Where did you get this from? Did you inject? Or orally or transdermal?
     
  36. If someone knows a cheap powder source shipping from Europe, please feel free to hit me up via PM.
     
  37. Based on what?
     
  38. I honestly doubt orally you are going to get all the testosterone you swallow . Otherwise injecting wouldn't be a thing.
     
  39. Okay, so you are basing this on your opinion. As Haidut mentioned in the post, Testosterone is bio available from the oral route, similar to other steroids, and there was recently an FDA approved version for the oral route. Availability of steroids will always vary by route of administration (oral, subcutaneous, injected, topical).

    And you still aren't comparing similar routes. Bio Availability may vary, but I would also guess there are many, many people that would prefer to take a pill, powder or capsule rather than sticking a needle in themselves a few times a week, even if there was a few dollars different in cost. There is no reason you couldn't get an injectable version of base test if you wanted to. And there are esters that you can take via the oral route.
     
  40. Ok,well I still haven't seen anything that shows esters are dangerous.
     
  41. I shared it with everyone who PMd me.
    It's also one of the easiest thing to find online if you know how to type on a keyboard, and I'm very average at best with a computer.
    That's the price of raw powder.
    You'd be a fool to inject it when you can get superior results by just mixing it with DMSO.
     
  42. Wouldn't be the first time millions of people are doing something absurd when there actually is an alternative
     
  43. So if you haven't seen it it doesn't exist?
     
  44. Superior results with dmso? So why aren't all bodybuilders just using dmso?
     
  45. Well you can't just make a claim and expect people to believe you with no evidence.
     
  46. Same answer as my previous comment two posts up
     
  47. I don't expect you to believe anything
     
  48. It’s not a simple answer why people do things a certain way when better alternatives exist. Why is there war?
     
  49. Sure...
     
  50. Lol if you have a study or something that shows esters and bad then post it if not I will just assume you just believe they are bad not that you have seen any evidence. I would like to be proven wrong .
     
  51. Yh I get that, but I just don't think transdermal even with dmso will compare to injection.
     
  52. Look at @TheBeard s blood values on T in DMSO,, they definitely can compare.
     
  53. That's pretty good test level for using on the skin but with 525mg a week I would expect more than that level when I was taking 600mg of test enanthate a week my test level came back at 4700 injecting twice a week . Putting on twice a day would just get annoying aswell ..
    It's just easier to get testosterone in oil aswell lol
     
  54. What is the dose and t level in blood? Don’t see it in thread
     
  55. Does anyone else have an informed opinion on whether or not around 1-3mgs of testosterone base per day will shut you down or just add to your own endogenous production? That is the information I was really hoping to gain.

    Because then I would just need a pretty small amount and feel that its a relatively low risk experiment. Don't want to wind up in a position where I wind up worse off then before because I took too little and shut off my own production and now have less test or have negative feedback loops or something.

    I think @tankasnowgod said that this small dose should work ok, but I'm really hoping to confirm that before jumping in. Just looking to hear from a few people here that this is an ok idea.
     
  56. From my own experience, taking Testogel, which contains about 5 mg of bioavailable testosterone, a few times a week doesn't seem to shut down my endogenous production.
     
  57. Testosterone, and even more so with no ester attached, has very little chance to cause permanent shutdown at any dose.
    If you realized you don't like it and want to stop, you would bounce back with no PCT to where you previously were in a few weeks.
    If your experiment had only been days, you would bounce back the next day.
    Unlike 19 nor derivatives where the shutdown is harsh and lengthy to recover from.
     
  58. Cool thanks.

    Oh ok, so if I'm understanding you correctly you think that I will get shutdown no matter what though. I hear you that you think it will be no big deal because I can recover very easily compared to most other things, but I was hoping that I could just add maybe 1mg of test a day or maybe twice a day and add it to my own production.. but you dont think that is the case?

    For example, if I was naturally making 6mg of testosterone per day, and I add 2mg test base I was hoping to now have 8mgs. What you said kind of concerns me because I dont want to add 2mg exogenously and then my body stops producing test, so now I only have 2mgs test in my body per day when I used to have 6mgs.
     
  59. No idea about such a low dose
     
  60. Are you taking pregnenolone with it or just test? When I took 10mg test a day I noticed little gonad shrinkage compared to total shrinkage to peasize on 5x the dose.
     
  61. I haven't taken any test as of yet, but I could (and probably would) take preg with it based on what you're saying and the study that was posted earlier in this thread.

    Im actually not suprised you saw some gonad shrinkage when taking 1omg a day because even though that is a relatively small amount it is still more then what an average man makes a day. That is why im so interested in even smaller amounts like 1mg because im guessing there is a chance it would just add to your endogenous production without the body thinking there is too much test in the system. My goal/interest is in not stopping or slowing down endogenous production at all.
     
  62. I think it’s a 10:1 preg:test ratio which will keep your gonads online. 10mg:1mg—30mg:3mg sounds reasonable although I’ve not used preg myself. If you expose your gonads to sunlight that would help too I think.

     
  63. I would advise you cycle:
    Testosterone 500 MG weekly x 10 weeks
    Arimidex 0.5mg
    Week 13 , novaldex 40 mg and week 14 novaldex 40 mg
    Week 15 and week 16 novaldex 20 mg

    Staying around 2400 calls/ day with 150gm protein
     
  64. To achieve what end?
     
  65. More Pain More Gain!
     
  66. 50cc? As in 50ml? What's the total volume of the topical formula? Not much more than 50ml, right?

    I'm just wondering if that was a typo because that would mean you're applying 4 grams of raw test base on your balls twice a day, and only getting levels of 1400 or so. Plus it'd just be ridiculously expensive if that were the case.

    So I guess I'm asking, what's the total volume of the formula, and how many mls do you apply daily? Thanks. Your comment is interesting as you have tested numbers to prove it's effectiveness.