Advice On Starting Testosterone Base?

[tankasnowgod]

I can't see anything that shows test base is any safer than test with esters..

Well, the Haidut post claims that there is no benefits of esters over base test in either cost or effectiveness. He then shows that base test has no negative impact on the liver (and may actually cure many cases of cirrhosis), while synthetic versions can cause liver issues.

"As the studies towards the end of the post demonstrate, not only is free/base T orally bioavailable, but even massive doses (400mg daily) have no negative side effects on the liver and in fact accelerates the activity of several liver detox enzymes. The latter effect is highly sought-after by Big Pharma and many drugs are currently being developed/tested with the hope that such a liver-metabolism-enhancing compound will be brought to market as it has tremendous potential for treating everything from obesity, to gyno, to side effects of toxic chemotherapy. Thus, as one of the studies below directly stated, artificial/synthetic T derivatives such as 17a-methylated varieties, 19-nortestosterone derivatives (and in general any other AAS with bizarre modifications to make them less metabolizable and longer acting) have no advantages over free/base T neither due to cost nor effectiveness. In fact, unlike the readily observed liver-toxicity (including liver cancer) from various synthetic AAS, using free/base T may actually cure 60%+ of even advanced cases of liver failure (cirrhosis), as confirmed by extensive human studies several decades ago.

"So, what does that have to do with FDA’s recent T undecanoate approval? Well, according to one of the studies below, that specific T ester only works if it is dissolved in oil AND administered with a large meal containing significant amounts of fat. On the other hand, oral free/base T was absorbed without using any carriers or fatty meals. In addition, androgen esters often have unpredictable effects and in some cases may be even carcinogenic, while the free/base steroid is highly protective. It just so happens that the formulation FDA approved does NOT contain any oils as carrier/solvent and does not carry a recommendation to consume with a significant amount of fat. So, at best the formulation will be ineffective and at worst it may be carcinogenic."

 

[Beastmode]

I can't see anything that shows test base is any safer than test with esters..

Email Ray ss most here are basing their usage on his research/experience.

 

[Jing]

Well, the Haidut post claims that there is no benefits of esters over base test in either cost or effectiveness. He then shows that base test has no negative impact on the liver (and may actually cure many cases of cirrhosis), while synthetic versions can cause liver issues.

Test base costs much more than testosterone enanthate for example at 400mg a day? That would cost a ton ... Test enanthate you could inject once a week at 400mg and it would cost roughly 40 pounds a for like 10 weeks
Where is the evidence testosterone attached to an ester cause liver problems? I'm not talking about 19 nor testosterone I'm talking about testosterone attached to esters ...

 

[tankasnowgod]

Test base costs much more than testosterone enanthate for example at 400mg a day? That would cost a ton ... Test enanthate you could inject once a week at 400mg and it would cost roughly 40 pounds a for like 10 weeks
Where is the evidence testosterone attached to an ester cause liver problems? I'm not talking about 19 nor testosterone I'm talking about testosterone attached to esters ...

Why would you have to take 400mg of Test Base a day? Where did you read that? And how did you come up with the idea that Test enanthate is just as effective at 1/7th the dose?

 

[cyclops]

"As the studies towards the end of the post demonstrate, not only is free/base T orally bioavailable, but even massive doses (400mg daily) have no negative side effects on the liver and in fact accelerates the activity of several liver detox enzymes. The latter effect is highly sought-after by Big Pharma and many drugs are currently being developed/tested with the hope that such a liver-metabolism-enhancing compound will be brought to market as it has tremendous potential for treating everything from obesity, to gyno, to side effects of toxic chemotherapy. Thus, as one of the studies below directly stated, artificial/synthetic T derivatives such as 17a-methylated varieties, 19-nortestosterone derivatives (and in general any other AAS with bizarre modifications to make them less metabolizable and longer acting) have no advantages over free/base T neither due to cost nor effectiveness. In fact, unlike the readily observed liver-toxicity (including liver cancer) from various synthetic AAS, using free/base T may actually cure 60%+ of even advanced cases of liver failure (cirrhosis), as confirmed by extensive human studies several decades ago.

This is really interesting, thanks for posting. I was actually thinking it was much safer to apply on skin and was looking into how to do that; its good to know oral is safe. So if you had raw test base powder, could you just measure out 1mg and eat it to get the benefits? Or do you have to mix it with something first and apply to the lips like Ray to really get it to absorb properly?

Also, I had asked someone who seemed knowledgeable about Testosterone about micro dosing (even just 1mg) and they said: "there is not a way to take any amount Test without getting shutdown unless you use HCG as well, and even then you would still technically be shut down because your pituitary would still stop LH and FSH production"

Do you think he is right about this? I was hoping to be able to use a small amount as more of a supplement; just adding maybe 1mg to what Im already producing endogenously. I don't think I'd want to use it if I'm going to get shutdown, because I dont think that would be healthy.

 

[tankasnowgod]

This is really interesting, thanks for posting. I was actually thinking it was much safer to apply on skin and was looking into how to do that; its good to know oral is safe. So if you had raw test base powder, could you just measure out 1mg and eat it to get the benefits? Or do you have to mix it with something first and apply to the lips like Ray to really get it to absorb properly?

Also, I had asked someone who seemed knowledgeable about Testosterone about micro dosing (even just 1mg) and they said: "there is not a way to take any amount Test without getting shutdown unless you use HCG as well, and even then you would still technically be shut down because your pituitary would still stop LH and FSH production"

Do you think he is right about this? I was hoping to be able to use a small amount as more of a supplement; just adding maybe 1mg to what Im already producing endogenously. I don't think I'd want to use it if I'm going to get shutdown, because I dont think that would be healthy.

According to the studies, you don't have to mix it with anything, but this is probably a YMMV sort of thing. Mixing it with Vitamin E and MCT/Coconut Oil certainly couldn't hurt.

Personally, I don't think small doses (anything physiological) would shut you down, certainly not like larger doses would. If you can, ask him what he is basing that on. Some plants make phtyo androgens, and androgen rich organs have been eaten throughout history, so people (and animals) have been getting some amounts of exogenous androgens throughout their lives, and I don't think it would shut down their own androgen producing organs. I'm sure there is a feedback mechanism (or several). At the same time, some of the more severe effects of "shutdown" from TRT or AAS may be from the synthetic nature of steroids themselves.

 

[cyclops]

Personally, I don't think small doses (anything physiological) would shut you down, certainly not like larger doses would. If you can, ask him what he is basing that on. Some plants make phtyo androgens, and androgen rich organs have been eaten throughout history, so people (and animals) have been getting some amounts of exogenous androgens throughout their lives, and I don't think it would shut down their own androgen producing organs.

Good points. Also I think our levels may be different from day to day, so why would 1mg shut you down.

At the same time, some of the more severe effects of "shutdown" from TRT or AAS may be from the synthetic nature of steroids themselves.

Really... I thought bio-identical meant the body couldn't tell the difference. Edit: oh, youre talking about not bio-identical for many who do trt?

 

[tankasnowgod]

Edit: oh, youre talking about not bio-identical for many who do trt?

Yes. I think most TRT (and pretty much all bodybuilders on "gear") are using some synthetic form. I think there can also be dangerous excepients, and often it's in some high PUFA oil carrier. I think injecting PUFA probably is worse than simply eating it.

 

[Jing]

Why would you have to take 400mg of Test Base a day? Where did you read that? And how did you come up with the idea that Test enanthate is just as effective at 1/7th the dose?

I saw 400mg on what you posted , I see now it's not saying to take that ... But to get the same dosage you would have to take lots more of test base orally than injecting test enanthate, but if you are injecting test base it is still more expensive than test enanthate ... I see no evidence test esters are bad.

 

[Jing]

Yes. I think most TRT (and pretty much all bodybuilders on "gear") are using some synthetic form. I think there can also be dangerous excepients, and often it's in some high PUFA oil carrier. I think injecting PUFA probably is worse than simply eating it.

All testosterone is bio-identical .. unless you are talking about deca, Masteron etc.

 

[TheBeard]

Test base costs much more than testosterone enanthate for example at 400mg a day? That would cost a ton ... Test enanthate you could inject once a week at 400mg and it would cost roughly 40 pounds a for like 10 weeks
Where is the evidence testosterone attached to an ester cause liver problems? I'm not talking about 19 nor testosterone I'm talking about testosterone attached to esters ...

"cost a ton"?

Test base costs 2$/gram dude, what are you even saying...

 

[Jing]

"cost a ton"?

Test base costs 2$/gram dude, what are you even saying...

And where does this test base come from? You always talk about test is cheap you can get it easily blah blah but you never share your sources ..

 

[Jing]

"cost a ton"?

Test base costs 2$/gram dude, what are you even saying...

Just looked on a source , for test base 100mg/ml 10ml cost 30 pounds .. I can get 300mg/ml 10ml of testosterone enanthate for 30

 

[brix]

I paid like $50 dollars for 30 grams

 

[Jing]

I paid like $50 dollars for 30 grams

Where did you get this from? Did you inject? Or orally or transdermal?

 

[milkboi]

If someone knows a cheap powder source shipping from Europe, please feel free to hit me up via PM.

 

[tankasnowgod]

But to get the same dosage you would have to take lots more of test base orally than injecting test enanthate,

Based on what?

 

[Jing]

Based on what?

I honestly doubt orally you are going to get all the testosterone you swallow . Otherwise injecting wouldn't be a thing.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I honestly doubt orally you are going to get all the testosterone you swallow . Otherwise injecting wouldn't be a thing.

Okay, so you are basing this on your opinion. As Haidut mentioned in the post, Testosterone is bio available from the oral route, similar to other steroids, and there was recently an FDA approved version for the oral route. Availability of steroids will always vary by route of administration (oral, subcutaneous, injected, topical).

And you still aren't comparing similar routes. Bio Availability may vary, but I would also guess there are many, many people that would prefer to take a pill, powder or capsule rather than sticking a needle in themselves a few times a week, even if there was a few dollars different in cost. There is no reason you couldn't get an injectable version of base test if you wanted to. And there are esters that you can take via the oral route.

 

[Jing]

Okay, so you are basing this on your opinion. As Haidut mentioned in the post, Testosterone is bio available from the oral route, similar to other steroids, and there was recently an FDA approved version for the oral route. Availability of steroids will always vary by route of administration (oral, subcutaneous, injected, topical).

And you still aren't comparing similar routes. Bio Availability may vary, but I would also guess there are many, many people that would prefer to take a pill, powder or capsule rather than sticking a needle in themselves a few times a week, even if there was a few dollars different in cost. There is no reason you couldn't get an injectable version of base test if you wanted to. And there are esters that you can take via the oral route.

Ok,well I still haven't seen anything that shows esters are dangerous.