Advice On My Next Step?

[paper_clips43]

Ok so its been about 3 months since I started peating. I recently cut out starch and am very happy I did. I notice that I can only tolerate either starch or milk and not both in the same day. Since I think milk is more beneficial I have stuck with milk. I started taking my temperature and BPM about three weeks ago and here is what I noticed.

I average 96.2 F upon waking with about 50-55 BPM.
After breakfast I get up to 96.6 - 97.0 and 60 BPM
As the day goes on I get around 97.2 - 97.6 and 60 BPM
I still have yet to see even a temperature of 98 and it is a little frustrating.

I recently upped my glandular thyroid to two capsules with three of my meals and I think I noticed improvement in my cold extremities and maybe a little rise in my temperature.

All in all I am still happy eating this way. I feel much much better and even look better as well.

I think I need to take it to the next level though to get my temperature and heart rate higher.

I am considering either Pregnenolone or Cytomel as an addition to everything I am already doing. Due to my finances I can only buy one of them right now.

Does anyone have any advice on which would be more beneficial for me right now?

 

[Mittir]

RP does not recommend glandular thyroid since Armour changed
their original formula. He does not know of any reliable product other than
synthetic cynomel/cytomel and cynomel plus.
There is a kind of glandular where they remove
T4 and some of them add iodine and other strange ingredients.
I think those are harmful supplements.

If there is a good amount of cholesterol and vitamin A intake then
thyroid supplement can make other anti-stress hormones
like pregnenolone, progesterone, dhea etc.
It seems more beneficial to use thyroid than pregnenolone.
I think one of the problem with thyroid is adjusting dose.
If you know your TSH ,that can help with making the decision.
TSH causes estrogen like health problems in addition to low thyroid problems
Salt, calcium, protein, red light therapy, increased co2
all help with increasing temperature.
Lowering PUFA is a must for everything to get right.
I have found niacinamide 100 mg twice daily helping a lot.
Niacnamide increases metabolism by inhibiting Free Fatty Acid
release from tissues and also protects liver.
Sugar, baking soda , bag breathing can increase co2.
Lowering fat and increasing sugar intake can increase metabolism and temp.
Lowering serotonin and estrogen also increase temperature.
Carrot salad lowers endotoxin , estrogen and serotonin.
Gut irritation increases serotonin. Avoiding starch and soluble fiber can help here.
Low tryptophan diet lowers serotonin and inflammation.
Gelatin can feed bacteria if it is not digested properly.
Healthy liver keeps estrogen in check.
80 + grams good quality protein, B vitamins ( especially B1,B2 and B6)
are essential for good liver function.

 

[paper_clips43]

Thanks mittir I really appreciate your help. I am still doing carrot salad every day and once or twice a week I take charcoal with it. I started bag breathing yesterday and definitely feel the calming effects after one or two minutes. Does it matter if I am breathing through my mouth when doing the bag breathing? Or does it have to be through the nose?

The only fat I consume is coconut oil and butter. I am lowering it slightly to see if that increases my pulse or temp.

Also I started taking niacnamide, one pill with each meal, it is the only supplement I am taking because I decided to stop all supplements a while back, besides thyroid. Although I am stopping thyroid as well because I am going to be testing my TSH soon.

Have you or anyone ever heard of the photon genius? If so what are your thoughts and opinions?

 

[Mittir]

Someone asked RP about it and he said It does not matter
if you breath through mouth while bag breathing
as long as your mouth and nose both are sealed with paper bag.
Excess bag breathing can cause kidney stone problem by
changing pH. RP mentioned that it takes few days of regular
bag breathing to change the internal mechanism of lactic acid
production. RP recommended minute or two of bag breathing few times day.
I have found coconut oil warming and i think butter slows down
metabolism for me. Small amount of fat with each meal helps
with regulating blood sugar spike, lowering endotoxin producing
bacteria and blocking PUFA access to cells.
I use few supplements and Niacinamide has been the most beneficial.
Aspirin and Niacinamide inhibit PUFA release. But Aspirin can cause
stomach ulcer to susceptible individual.

 

[paper_clips43]

So my doctor ordered me a full thyroid panel. I am hoping the results come in today. If not then they should be here monday.

Meanwhile they prescribed me antibiotics for my sinus infection. It is called amoxicillin/clavulanate

Does anyone know anything about this? Before Peating I was against antibiotics although from what I have read he believes some are beneficial.

Is this antibiotic ok when Peating?

I really held of on resorting to this kind of treatment for awhile. But its been one year now since I have had this sinus infection and I just can't take it anymore. Peating sometimes makes it better but sometimes makes it worse too. Its pretty frustrating...

 

[Mittir]

I believe RP recommends very low dose antibiotics of particular type
for short period of time to lower endotoxin.
There was a Mayo Clinic study that found most sinus infections
happen due to fungus and that is why antibiotic does not work.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/19 ... 080344.htm
Long before Ray Peat, i was prescribed antibiotics for inflamed sinus
and it did not help at all. I always get sicker after long course of
antibiotics, anything beyond 5 days.
I remember one doctor gave me amoxicillin too.
Diet helped me a lot and i avoid all kind of anti-histamins, these seems
make things worse for me.

 

[paper_clips43]

Thanks again mittir! You confirmed my thoughts. I am going to hold off on the antibiotics for now and try to fix my health with diet.

I got my labs in today.
Please let me know what you think.

TSH = .024
Direct free T4 = 1.46
Triiodothryonine = 4.6
Reverse T3 = 17.2
TPO = 8
TG antibodies = <1.0

I also have consistantly low temps and heartrate. I have to even see a temperature of 98 or a heart rate of above 70.

 

[paper_clips43]

edit: i have yet* to see a temp of 98 ....

My average morning temp is 96.6
And my average heart rate is 50-60 bpm

 

[Mittir]

Your TSH is in ideal range. You did not add units to rest of your tests.
If your results are close to middle of reference range then those are fine.
Is your T3 test Total T3 or free T3? Your antibodies are low, that is good.
If your total cholesterol is low then thyroid would not be able to make
protective hormones. Have you tested your cholesterol lately?
Thyroid increases need for nutrients so increasing nutrient intake is essential.

 

[paper_clips43]

I haven't ever tested my cholesterol. I do eat 2-4 pastured local egg yolks every day which I figured supplied enough cholesterol as well as the other important fat soluble vitamins.

That T3 test was for my free T3.

I was pretty surprised with how my results came back. I mean if anything it shows that I am hyperthyroid. Which is really weird because I have none of the symptoms. I never sweat, I always have cold extremities with low basal temperature and low heart rate.
I am really underweight though and have trouble keeping weight on. So I always eat every two hours.

Im just not sure what to make of it.

As far as my test results there is no reason to take any thyroid correct?

My goal is to get my heart rate and temperature up though. I feel like that would really help me fight off this nasal infection and make me more healthy.

Another side note is I haven't been sick in over two years now. No flu, cold, or anything. Not even a fever.

 

[Mittir]

I remember reading somewhere that dietary intake of cholesterol is a
small part of total cholesterol. Most of the cholesterol is made in liver
and fructose increases cholesterol production .RP has mentioned that
starch consumption and low thyroid are common cause of low cholesterol.
Vitamin A is also needed to make protective hormone from cholesterol.

The reference range of free T3 is 2.2- 4.2 pg/mL and 3.5-6.5 pmol/L
You did not mention if your free T3 is in pg/mL or pmol/L .
If it is pg/mL then you are slightly hyperthyroid.

I think sinus infection is mostly due to food allergens.
I found whole egg was a major source of my sinus problems .
Bad excipient in supplements, gluten are other sources.
Milk used to be a major trigger. Also my allergy worsened when i
moved into an old house.

 

[paper_clips43]

Oops my bad! The reference range for my Free T3 is pg/ml

and your saying that is slightly hyperthyroid. What do you think is a good treatment option for this?

I also do not eat whole eggs. Or at least haven't in a few weeks. Only the yolk.

I also quit starch 9 days ago. Happy I made that decision. Haven't eaten gluten in a couple years and only consume niacin-amide and p5p as supplements right now.

As far as the house situation I should be finding out if that is the cause because I am traveling to Hawaii for a few months on Feb 6th. I am going to be staying with a friend and keeping my stress to as little as possible.

Also looking forward to more tropical fruit :)

 

[Mittir]

You are slightly hyperthyroid in terms of numbers,not symptoms.
You did not add unit to your reverse T3. One can have high T3 but
low thyroid activity if T4 and reverse T3 are high.
PUFA lowers tissue response to T3.
RP also mentioned that by age 30-40 most people become
saturated with PUFA. This is the core problem and causes body to
amplify stress. With high PUFA storage the small stress becomes
big stress. RP recommends frequent feeding with
sugar , protein and saturated fat ( coconut oil in particular) to block
PUFA release. It takes about 4 years to completely replace our
stored fatty acid by dietary changes. Aspirin and Niacinamide
also lowers PUFA release. Coconut oil has anti-histamine activity.
In elimination diet every food and supplement should be a suspect.
I get allergic reaction to egg whites within days and with egg yolk it takes
daily intake of 2-3 yolk for a week or so. Egg yolk is less allergenic than egg white
but it does have allergenic protein.
RP mentioned Bromelain in pineapple ( concentrated mostly at the core)
is very powerful anti-inflammatory. I have also read somewhere that bromelain
is particularly useful for inflamed sinus.This enzymes digest protein and it can cause
nausea and ulcer like symptoms for people with weak intestinal wall. Acid in pineapple is
also very corrosive, but adding baking soda or carbonated water can neutralize the acid.
Avoiding starch is very effective against allergy and all sorts health problems.
Calcium plays a big role in keeping serotonin and histamine in check.
Vitamin D, K and 1200-2000 mg of calcium are essential for keeping PTH in check.
RP strongly recommends vitamin E for people with high PUFA storage.
RP also recommends additive free Benadryl and cyproheptadine for
sinus problems.

 

[paper_clips43]

The unit of measurement for my Reverse T3 is ng/dL.

Decided to eliminate eggs for a one week to see if that helps at all.

With my labs the way they look right now should I abstain from taking thyroid?

I just really wanna get my temperature up.

Also I took my labs first thing in the morning, at 7:00 am, and am wondering if TSH is likely to rise during the day.

Would taking Cynoplus, at a 1/8 of pill per day, be a bad idea if my TSH is so low already?

 

[Mittir]

Your reverse T3 is within normal range.
RP recommends tests of total T4, Total T3 and revserse T3.
I do not know what does Free T4 measure.
RP also recommends measuring total cholesterol
before starting thyroid supplement.
He suggested that one can start with T3 only and see how
body reacts to it. Once you can find the right T3 dose that
makes you feel good then you can convert that dose to
T4 and T3 mix. T3 acts instantaneously. If i were you
i would start with T3 1-2 mcg every hour . I feel warm
within half an hour of taking T3. If it does not warm me up
then i will test for total cholesterol, if i can not do that
i will increase fructose containing sugar to increase cholesterol.
I have seen moderately healthy people on high starch healthy diet
having very low total cholesterol. Here is a RP's comments on
Thyroid dosing from Danny Roddy's page.

THYROID (DOSE/BRANDS)

Are there any combination products, such as Thyrolar or Cynoplus, that you can get in Spain? It's good to start with a small amount, such as 5 mcg of T3 twice a day, while watching for changes in your pulse rate, temperature, and ability to sleep. Half a grain of Armour, or about 30 mcg of T4 and 7.5 mcg of T3, is traditionally a common starting dose; it should be taken with a meal, so that it absorbs slowly. Taking a very small amount at bedtime usually helps with insomnia.

Try a sixth of a 25 mcg cynomel tablet at first, and watch for the effects in the first two hours. According to what you notice, you could continue that once a day, or twice a day, for about 10 days, then you could try some with each meal, for another week. #2 and #3: when you find out how the T3 affects you, you could change to the combination (Armour or Thyrolar or Cynoplus); the amounts I mentioned would be similar to 12 mcg of T3 per day.

It depends on what you notice from taking a small amount with meals. If it makes you feel pleasant, calm, confident, then trying it at bedtime would be right.

25 mcg of T3 has approximately the activity of a grain (65 mg) of thyroid gland; is ERFA the only one available? A synthetic thyroxine could be combined with the Cynomel. Since the European products aren't necessarily the same as those made elsewhere, and a person's requirements are variable, it's essential to start with small amounts, watching for the effects, including pulse rate and temperature. T4 builds up slowly in the tissues, over about 14 days, but the T3 acts immediately. With any product, a single dose of T3 of about 4 mcg is close to the physiological range; sometimes a smaller amount is enough.

As long as it's divided so that you don't get a big dose of T3 all at once it should be o.k. to take a total of 25 mcg T3 and 100 of T4.That would be similar to the traditional 2 grain dose of Armour thyroid. A healthy person should produce the equivalent of about four grains per day, so with 2 grains of supplement, or the equivalent, there isn't a risk of over-dosing.

I use Cynomel and Cynoplus mostly, but they come in only one size, so I cut the tablets into about ten parts.

Thyroid is the only thing that safely lowers cholesterol, but when your stress hormones are very high, you shouldn't take more than about one microgram of Cytomel at a time, and should accompany it with things like milk and orange juice.

Twice a day should be o.k., [CYTOMEL] but every day you should make a note of your pulse rate and temperature, and in a week or ten days you should be able to see a progression.

Sometimes it takes many months to get the metabolic rate stable at a higher level, and it's often necessary to use a thyroid supplement.

It [CYTOMEL] improves the retention of magnesium, and cellular relaxation, and some people want to have a nap in the afternoon when their thyroid is good.

If you use some T3 (such as Cytomel or Cynomel) it's important to keep each dose small, while watching for changes in your pulse and temperature. Usually 4 or 5 mcg at a time is o.k. (the body makes about 4 mcg per hour). I don't think there's likely to be any problem using desiccated thyroid if the product is good, but because of changing manufacturing methods, that's largely a matter of trial and error. Low ferritin is often a result of hypothyroidism. The need for thyroid increases greatly during the winter in high latitudes, for example when I needed half a grain in the summer, I had to increase it to two grains during the winter. When cholesterol is high, that can make it easier to adapt to a thyroid supplement, since the thyroid will stimulate the conversion of cholesterol into progesterone and the adrenal hormones.

I have heard from a few people using it, one thinks it doesn't work , but I haven't heard enough details to form an opinion yet. [THIROYD by Greater Pharma]

Armour thyroid, USP, was the standard thyroid used widely for about 80 years. Since ownership of the product name was bought by Revlon and then a series of other companies, I'm not sure anything of the simple original formula remains; maybe magnesium stearate, I haven't looked lately.

With your TSH so high, you should probably add a thyroid supplement, until you get it down to about 1.0, or less. (The normal range, according to the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists, is from 0.3 to 3.0.)

A few years ago I had some communication from a pharmacist at Forest Pharmaceutical, and he said that over ten years ago they began having thyrocalcitonin extracted from the pig thyroid powder to sell separately as a new drug. I think that left stearic acid as the only ingredient the current product might have in common with traditional Armour thyroid, USP. I don't use any product containing fumed or colloidal silica, or titanium, or various novel polymers, or coloring agents

I use Cynoplus (contains T4 and T3) and Cynomel (T3 only) that I usually get from http://www.mymexicandrugstore.mx. There is only one size tablet, and a fourth of a tablet is a typical starting dose.

T3, by lowering stress, sometimes reveals a low basal metabolic rate, that was hidden by high stress hormones. The body produces about 4 mcg of T3 per hour, so taking more than that can interfere with regulatory processes. It's helpful to use the resting pulse rate, and the 24 hour temperature curve, along with other signs, such as mood, appearance of veins on the hands, etc. The peak temperature should be in the afternoon.

I occasionally see that happen [T3 WILL CAUSE LOW TEMP/PULSE]; sometimes people have had their pulse rate decrease 40 or 50 beats per minute. The temperature of your fingers, toes, and nose helps to interpret the balance between stress and thyroid; your fingers should be less cold as your metabolic rate comes up. In extreme hypothyroidism, the hands and feet can be very cold while the oral temperature looks o.k.; then as the metabolic rate increases, the difference between fingers and mouth decreases.

When I used only Cytomel, any little stress would make me suddenly hypothyroid, and my heart would stop several times in a minute; when I started using some thyroid, USP, that contained both T4 and T3 it stopped happening.

Experimenters using isotopes gave large doses of thyroid until the subjects' glands were completely shut off, and when they stopped giving the doses, everyone's gland returned to normal activity in just 2 or 3 days. The gland is extremely quick to adjust its activity, both up and down, except when it's inhibited by stress, or PUFA, or estrogen, etc. [TAKING THYROID WILL HAVE LONG-TERM EFFECTS]

The temperature rise during the day is the most important thing, since nocturnal stress hormones can give a misleading impression in the morning. Resting pulse rate is another good indicator. Milk and cheese are the best calcium sources.

NOT RESPONDING TO THYROID

If you are eating enough protein, about 100 grams, and salt and thyroid, then I would consider the steroids--something might be interfering with your production of pregnenolone and DHEA. Things that could do that would be very low cholesterol, or a deficiency of vitamin A (retinol), or possibly other deficiencies.

If your cholesterol is above 200, and the thyroid supplements didn't warm you up, it's possible that something is interfering with your steroid synthesis, which might be a deficiency of something like vitamin A, or interference from something like iron or carotene. Have you tried a supplement of pregnenolone or DHEA? Were any other hormones, such as prolactin, measured? If you are taking the aspirin regularly, you should make sure to get vitamin K, from kale, liver, or a supplement. Anemia, like cold feet, is a common sign of low thyroid function.

 

[staytuned]

RP does not recommend glandular thyroid since Armour changed
their original formula. He does not know of any reliable product other than
synthetic cynomel/cytomel and cynomel plus.
There is a kind of glandular where they remove
T4 and some of them add iodine and other strange ingredients.
I think those are harmful supplements.

If there is a good amount of cholesterol and vitamin A intake then
thyroid supplement can make other anti-stress hormones
like pregnenolone, progesterone, dhea etc.
It seems more beneficial to use thyroid than pregnenolone.
I think one of the problem with thyroid is adjusting dose.
If you know your TSH ,that can help with making the decision.
TSH causes estrogen like health problems in addition to low thyroid problems
Salt, calcium, protein, red light therapy, increased co2
all help with increasing temperature.
Lowering PUFA is a must for everything to get right.
I have found niacinamide 100 mg twice daily helping a lot.
Niacnamide increases metabolism by inhibiting Free Fatty Acid
release from tissues and also protects liver.
Sugar, baking soda , bag breathing can increase co2.
Lowering fat and increasing sugar intake can increase metabolism and temp.
Lowering serotonin and estrogen also increase temperature.
Carrot salad lowers endotoxin , estrogen and serotonin.
Gut irritation increases serotonin. Avoiding starch and soluble fiber can help here.
Low tryptophan diet lowers serotonin and inflammation.
Gelatin can feed bacteria if it is not digested properly.
Healthy liver keeps estrogen in check.
80 + grams good quality protein, B vitamins ( especially B1,B2 and B6)
are essential for good liver function.

Mittir, is this all from your head or do you have a cheat-sheet? Great synopsis of this stuff and wondering if there is any more!

 

[4peatssake]

Mittir, is this all from your head or do you have a cheat-sheet? Great synopsis of this stuff and wondering if there is any more!

Mittir is an A+ student.

You can search his many posts for a wealth of information and Peat inspired knowledge.
I have a file folder containing of some of his awesome, information-packed posts!
He's a tremendous asset to our community.

 

[staytuned]

Mittir, is this all from your head or do you have a cheat-sheet? Great synopsis of this stuff and wondering if there is any more!

Mittir is an A+ student.

You can search his many posts for a wealth of information and Peat inspired knowledge.
I have a file folder containing of some of his awesome, information-packed posts!
He's a tremendous asset to our community.

I'd say so... I'm trying to make a condensed summary of all this knowledge, it is so difficult to piece together :\

I want to know why I'm doing the different things I'm doing and what different symptoms indicate and which things to tweak according to those symptoms.

 

[4peatssake]

Mittir, is this all from your head or do you have a cheat-sheet? Great synopsis of this stuff and wondering if there is any more!

Mittir is an A+ student.

You can search his many posts for a wealth of information and Peat inspired knowledge.
I have a file folder containing of some of his awesome, information-packed posts!
He's a tremendous asset to our community.

I'd say so... I'm trying to make a condensed summary of all this knowledge, it is so difficult to piece together :\

I want to know why I'm doing the different things I'm doing and what different symptoms indicate and which things to tweak according to those symptoms.

I would say this is exactly what the vast majority of us here are all doing.
It is often a steep learning curve and a lot of trial and error but a worthwhile and rewarding endeavor leading to good health and well being.

 

[paper_clips43]

Thanks Mittir! You have been a great help.

Its been about 10 days since no eggs and I am feeling better. I upped my liver intake to compensate for some of the missing nutrients from the eggs.

Im still kinda wary of taking thyroid. Especially reading that part about “Thyroid WILL have long term effects”. I might be too young to be dosing with synthetic thyroid. Im still considering it though. Dropping the eggs was a good move.

Also started topical pregnenelone 3 days ago and have been seeing really good results with my overall feeling of well being.

Also my other good news! Is for the past 6 days now I have been waking up with a temperature of 97 even. This is the highest I have seen it. Also noticing a slightly better temperature reading during the day.

And my skin is glowing and looking amazing!

I think one of the best parts about this diet is that I never have any cravings. I can go places and watch my friends eat food and not have any craving what so ever. My sugary salty orange juice is delicious.

Also one of my favorite meals right now is cottage cheese and fruit with salt and sugar. I switch up the fruit every day. One days it cherries, then peaches, then mangoes. Sometimes warmed up in grass fed butter before added to the cold cottage cheese and its like pie :)