Advice for Haidut with 5a-dhp.

[Razvan]

After some experiments and experiences with some substances I'm truly believing that @haidut should change the 5a-dhp dosage.
It will sell better and it will be much more effective. Right now 1 drop contains 1mg and the 2-4mg dosages has only little gaba agonistic effects and it's pretty
much useless.

The real benefit of it starts with 9mg+ dosages , it feels totally different at that dosage and i can feel the prolactin lowering effect very fast from taking it. It becomes dopaminergic and androgenic while at low dosages feels very anti androgenic.

I think he should change from 1mg to 5mg per drop. What do you think @haidut

 

[dukesbobby777]

After some experiments and experiences with some substances I'm truly believing that @haidut should change the 5a-dhp dosage.
It will sell better and it will be much more effective. Right now 1 drop contains 1mg and the 2-4mg dosages has only little gaba agonistic effects and it's pretty
much useless.

The real benefit of it starts with 9mg+ dosages , it feels totally different at that dosage and i can feel the prolactin lowering effect very fast from taking it. It becomes dopaminergic and androgenic while at low dosages feels very anti androgenic.

I think he should change from 1mg to 5mg per drop. What do you think @haidut

It’s different for each person though. Everyone’s mileage varies.

 

[ChemHead]

After some experiments and experiences with some substances I'm truly believing that @haidut should change the 5a-dhp dosage.
It will sell better and it will be much more effective. Right now 1 drop contains 1mg and the 2-4mg dosages has only little gaba agonistic effects and it's pretty
much useless.

The real benefit of it starts with 9mg+ dosages , it feels totally different at that dosage and i can feel the prolactin lowering effect very fast from taking it. It becomes dopaminergic and androgenic while at low dosages feels very anti androgenic.

I think he should change from 1mg to 5mg per drop. What do you think @haidut

First time looking at this thread, so forgive me if I'm incorrect in my assumption that the DHP is for PFS.

Have you or anyone else tried taking l-dopa at around 500-750 mg? I've been looking into the role of prolactin and dopaminergic activity involved in a possible feedback loop that regulates 5AR expression. I've also considered possible connection between 5AR expression and hGH as dopamine will upregulate the release of GHRH.

I'm just curious if anyone has tried using l-dopa at this dosage for a few months as it will cause a significant increase in dopaminergic activity and release of hGH. This is something I've been experimenting with in the past month or so.

 

[Razvan]

First time looking at this thread, so forgive me if I'm incorrect in my assumption that the DHP is for PFS.

Have you or anyone else tried taking l-dopa at around 500-750 mg? I've been looking into the role of prolactin and dopaminergic activity involved in a possible feedback loop that regulates 5AR expression. I've also considered possible connection between 5AR expression and hGH as dopamine will upregulate the release of GHRH.

I'm just curious if anyone has tried using l-dopa at this dosage for a few months as it will cause a significant increase in dopaminergic activity and release of hGH. This is something I've been experimenting with in the past month or so.

Any benefits from L-Dopa? I haven't tried it but yes, DHT and dopamine are very connected from my experience. Prolactin and dopamine work inversely proportional. When you lower prolactin by a lot you increase dopamine and lower estrogen.

 

[ChemHead]

Any benefits from L-Dopa? I haven't tried it but yes, DHT and dopamine are very connected from my experience. Prolactin and dopamine work inversely proportional. When you lower prolactin by a lot you increase dopamine and lower estrogen.

It's difficult to tell because I'm currently recovering from PFS and I am getting better, but, at this point it's difficult to say whether my improvement is accelerating from l-dopa or if it's just continuing to improve on the trajectory it has been.

I recovered once from PFS around 3 years ago and there was a small window of time (maybe a month?) where I had been using up some l-dopa that I had on hand from years prior (I'm honestly not sure for what purpose I had originally purchased it) and so I've been kind of back tracking my steps previously to see if there were overlooked variables that had accelerated my recovery. I actually first thought that I had used mucuna pruriens, but a couple months ago I realized that it was probably l-dopa because the powder was white, unlike mucuna pruriens. Pure l-dopa also gives me a distinct mild headache after consumption that mucuna pruriens doesn't.

Dopamine has inhibitory activity against prolactin and I would guess that the inverse of that may be true as well. However, I'd say that rather than trying to lower prolactinogenic activity with a receptor antagonist, increasing dopaminergic activity will actually lower prolactin. DHT is also highly inhibitory against prolactinogenic activity, but I haven't yet found any clinical research that can link 5AR, DHT, and the dopaminergic system together. I wouldn't be surprised if dopamine may be involved in a signaling cascade that ultimately leads to upregulation of 5AR.

I'd say that if I recover in the next couple of weeks that it would definitely be worth a shot for most to try a moderately high dose of l-dopa for a couple months. Finasteride causes hyperprolactinemia in me and I hadn't given much thought about its role, as well as dopamine, until I came across a thread on another forum about a hair loss drug that targets prolactin.

Even if I recover, though, it doesn't necessarily mean it was from the l-dopa. That's why, if I do recover, I'd like to see if I can encourage some other people struggling with PFS to try using l-dopa to verify that it played a role in helping me both this time and the last time I recovered.

If you are struggling with PFS, I think I might try l-dopa. The only negative effects that I experience are a temporary increase in epinephrine, elevated heart rate and blood pressure... that nervous fight or flight rush. And technically, if I used carbidopa along with the l-dopa, I probably wouldn't experience those side effects. I'm not really bothered much by them, though.

I'm thinking it makes sense, though. Finasteride could have disturbed a self-sustaining feedback loop by decreasing DHT (and, thus, its inhibitory action on prolactin) and set prolactinogenic activity high. If 5AR expression and dopaminergic activity were interconnected, this would explain the PFS mess.

 

[ChemHead]

Here are a few studies I've been looking at recently:

Effect of a Dopamine agoniste on the development of Leydig cellhyperplasia in Sprague-Dawley rats

Dopamine agonists are known to increase the incidence of Leydig cell hyperplasia/adenomas when administered to rats over periods of 1–2 years. We have…

www.sciencedirect.com

Testosterone level and the effect of levodopa and agonists in early Parkinson disease: results from the INSPECT cohort

To determine if testosterone levels are influenced by dopaminergic therapy in Parkinson disease (PD) patients. Testosterone level has been reported to be low in patients with PD and other neurodegenerative diseases. In this study, we sought to determine ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

L-dopa stimulates release of hypothalamic growth hormone-releasing hormone in humans - PubMed

A sensitive RIA for human GH-releasing hormone-(1-44)-NH2 [hGHRH-(1-44)-NH2] was developed which allows its measurement in human plasma extracts. The assay did not detect hGHRH-(1-37)-OH or hGHRH-(1-40)-OH. A method to extract hGHRH from plasma was developed using silicic acid and acid-acetone...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

[HGH secretion after oral application of L-dopa and L-carbidopa (author's transl)] - PubMed

The stimulatory effect of L-Dopa and L-Carbidopa (Nacom) on HGH secretion was determined in 12 children of normal height aged from 6 to 14 years. Each child received a standard dose of 250 mg L-Dopa and 25 mg L-Carbidopa p.o. HGH concentration in the serum was determined at standard intervals...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[ChemHead]

Under the "Discussions and conclusions" of the Parkinson study:

These results suggest that neither levodopa nor pramipexole decrease testosterone level in early PD. The observation that the untreated group experienced further lowering of free testosterone levels lends support to the hypothesis that testosterone decline in PD may be a result of disease-specific factors, and that the decline is less likely iatrogenically induced by dopaminergic medications. It is not entirely clear why the increase in free testosterone levels persisted in the dopamine agonist group post-washout. Dopamine agonists have been used in the treatment of prolactinoma, because dopamine is a natural inhibitor of prolactin [9, 10]. Prolactin lowers leutenizing hormone (LH) which in turn lowers testosterone level [11–16]. Thus, dopamine agonists may theoretically increase testosterone levels by inhibiting prolactin. This point will need further clarification.

 

[Mauritio]

After some experiments and experiences with some substances I'm truly believing that @haidut should change the 5a-dhp dosage.
It will sell better and it will be much more effective. Right now 1 drop contains 1mg and the 2-4mg dosages has only little gaba agonistic effects and it's pretty
much useless.

The real benefit of it starts with 9mg+ dosages , it feels totally different at that dosage and i can feel the prolactin lowering effect very fast from taking it. It becomes dopaminergic and androgenic while at low dosages feels very anti androgenic.

I think he should change from 1mg to 5mg per drop. What do you think @haidut

I dont think he should change the whole product, because I get great effects from just 1 or 2 drops .

But its very interesting that you get those effects at higher doses , so maybe more people will experiment with it in the future.

I think haidut mentioned that to get the proper prolactin lowering effects you have to cross a certain threshold . IIRC it was 5-6mg .

 

[Tim Lundeen]

The concern with L-Dopa is that it usually accelerates the loss of dopamine neurons. The high-dose B1 protocol people claim it protects against this.

HIGH-D0SE THIAMINE (HDT) THERAPY for Parkinson's Disease

Official Site for Dr. Antonio Costantini's HDT Research

highdosethiamine.org

 

[ChemHead]

The concern with L-Dopa is that it usually accelerates the loss of dopamine neurons. The high-dose B1 protocol people claim it protects against this.

HIGH-D0SE THIAMINE (HDT) THERAPY for Parkinson's Disease

Official Site for Dr. Antonio Costantini's HDT Research

highdosethiamine.org

It's my understanding that Parkinson's patients need sustained use of l-dopa for the duration of their lives. The use of l-dopa for PFS would only be temporary to restore 5AR expression and the feedback loop that maintains it. I've used l-dopa in the past and haven't suffered any negative effects in the past 3 years since using it. However, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to use high dose thiamine along with l-dopa as an added measure of safety.

Anyway, it's only my intention to inform PFS sufferers that l-dopa may be a path to restoration. As I mentioned, I've recovered from PFS once in the past and I can't say for certain that l-dopa played a critical role in my first recovery, but, more and more, I'm beginning to believe that it may have been significant in my recovery.

 

[haidut]

After some experiments and experiences with some substances I'm truly believing that @haidut should change the 5a-dhp dosage.
It will sell better and it will be much more effective. Right now 1 drop contains 1mg and the 2-4mg dosages has only little gaba agonistic effects and it's pretty
much useless.

The real benefit of it starts with 9mg+ dosages , it feels totally different at that dosage and i can feel the prolactin lowering effect very fast from taking it. It becomes dopaminergic and androgenic while at low dosages feels very anti androgenic.

I think he should change from 1mg to 5mg per drop. What do you think @haidut

Thanks for the suggestion. Will see if we can move to a bigger bottle so that say 12 drops daily would make a bottle last 30 days.

 

[Tim Lundeen]

It's my understanding that Parkinson's patients need sustained use of l-dopa for the duration of their lives. The use of l-dopa for PFS would only be temporary to restore 5AR expression and the feedback loop that maintains it. I've used l-dopa in the past and haven't suffered any negative effects in the past 3 years since using it. However, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to use high dose thiamine along with l-dopa as an added measure of safety.

The concern is that loss of dopamine neurons has no or minimal symptoms, until you get to a point where your brain can't compensate. It looks like l-dopa can generate toxic byproducts that kill marginal neurons. So if l-dopa is killing neurons, in parallel with its benefits from producing higher dopamine, you can't tell, but it would reduce healthy lifespan.

Thiamin is a sulfer-based vitamin, and has been shown to reduce injury from aldehydes, but binding to the aldehydes also depletes thiamin. So it looks like high-dose thiamin has multiple benefits: reducing injury from aldehydes, helping to maximize metabolic energy, and helping catalyze various enzymes.

I've been trying different doses of thiamin pyrophosphate and seeing some benefits, currently taking 5mg with each meal. If I take 10mg with each meal I get some additional benefits, but side effects (a strong aftertaste and feeling a little wired and "overdriven") aren't worth it...

 

[ChemHead]

Not that I necessarily believe that the effects of short term use of l-dopa would be permanent in a person without Parkinson's, but even if it took 5 years off my lifespan, I would probably trade that if I were suffering from PFS for 5-10 years with no hope in sight like some people.

 

[Tim Lundeen]

Not that I necessarily believe that the effects of short term use of l-dopa would be permanent in a person without Parkinson's, but even if it took 5 years off my lifespan, I would probably trade that if I were suffering from PFS for 5-10 years with no hope in sight like some people.

Well, yes! Me too.

But if you can protect against possible harm with B1, why not? And I suspect that B1 all by itself would heal some of the damage, that they would be synergistic.

 

[ChemHead]

Well, yes! Me too.

But if you can protect against possible harm with B1, why not? And I suspect that B1 all by itself would heal some of the damage, that they would be synergistic.

Definitely. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of health conscious people are a little deficient in B1 considering that almost everything you eat would probably need to have about 10% daily value unless you're eating macadamia nuts every day.

 

[Razvan]

Well, yes! Me too.

But if you can protect against possible harm with B1, why not? And I suspect that B1 all by itself would heal some of the damage, that they would be synergistic.

Try microdosing mushrooms. It's life changing,i am experimenting with it

 

[Tim Lundeen]

Yes, it's very easy to be deficient in B1. Lots of foods and gut bacteria break it down, and high aldehyde levels in your cells deplete it.

Anything ending in "ol" is an alcohol; they generally go through a dehydrogenase enzyme to become an aldehyde, before being converted to something useful or detox-able. Ethanol is converted to acetaldehyde by alcohol-dehydrogenase (ADH), then to acetic acid by aldehyde-dehydrogenase (ALDH). In the aldehyde form it can be toxic and will bind to B1. Alcoholics are B1 deficient But it can happen to anyone...

I noticed a difference, just adding 1mg B1-pyrophosphate per day, and titrated to about 15/day, seems to be working well for me

 

[ChemHead]

high aldehyde levels in your cells deplete it.

I'll have to look into the l-dopa thiamine issue a little more.

It looks like dopamine catabolism is enzymatically metabolized to aldehydes via a few different pathways. One involves multiple oxidations and a methylation, one involves an alcohol dehydrogenase on a second mechanism for the breakdown of noradrenaline, and the other is directly deaminated to an aldehyde. I can see why that may cause some issues.

However, I'm thinking that people suffering from PFS are already deficient in dopaminergic activity and that taking l-dopa would likely just bring them up to par.

I noticed a difference, just adding 1mg B1-pyrophosphate per day, and titrated to about 15/day, seems to be working well for me

I'm actually pretty excited to play around with B1 dosage and see how it affects me. It's not something I've ever given much thought to... it's never been on my radar.

 

[Tim Lundeen]

Fascinating re dopamine catabolism, that fits with benefit from B1, thanks!

Aldehydes are also scavenged by cystine and other sulfer compounds, and vitamin c also helps prevent injury. Protective action of ascorbic acid and sulfur compounds against acetaldehyde toxicity: implications in alcoholism and smoking - PubMed

This benefit from B1 is why I think allithiamin can be so helpful -- it bypasses the normal transport of b1 into the cell, so you get much higher levels of b1 in the cell, helps if the cell has a buildup of alcohols that are creating chronic inflammation

 

[golder]

Thanks for the suggestion. Will see if we can move to a bigger bottle so that say 12 drops daily would make a bottle last 30 days.

This would be fantastic, as I’m sure it would be for several others that I’ve spoken to about this, as long as it can be kept as affordable as possible.