Adverse Reaction To Red Meat Specifically. Anyone Else?

[Twohandsondeck]

I've eaten plenty of red meat, grain fed and pasture raised alike. After much experimentation, I'm finally accepting that it's a 1 for 1 allergy that triggers a psoriasis flare up every time it's consumed, especially liver.

Am I the only one that can't tolerate red meat? It seems like everyone else gets along with it just fine.

It's often cited as a "superfood" due to the carnitine, CLA, and heme... But could these compounds be the same reason someone wouldn't digest it well?

 

[redsun]

I've eaten plenty of red meat, grain fed and pasture raised alike. After much experimentation, I'm finally accepting that it's a 1 for 1 allergy that triggers a psoriasis flare up every time it's consumed, especially liver.

Am I the only one that can't tolerate red meat? It seems like everyone else gets along with it just fine.

It's often cited as a "superfood" due to the carnitine, CLA, and heme... But could these compounds be the same reason someone wouldn't digest it well?

You can't be allergic to meat. Liver is high in nutrients and should overall be antiinflammatory but you may get problems from the high amounts of copper. If the liver of the animal had toxins because it was poor quality or some other reason that could also cause a reaction. Muscle meat wont contain toxins like organs could as they dont accumulate there. Having enough carbs help reduce problems from high amounts of protein.

 

[ExCarniv]

You eat eggs? white bread? Spinach/collards?

 

[Twohandsondeck]

You're right, "allergy" was a poor word choice. Overeating red meat isn't going to send anyone to the ER, aheh. Nonetheless, it does seem to trigger skin inflammation in me.

I've considered the copper quandary. To be honest it's pretty likely that I'm copper toxic from a 2 week stent of a raw carnivore diet that I embarked on earlier this year. During that month I ate a considerable amount of raw liver, probably amounting to something like 1/3lb every 3-4 days if I had to guess. I suppose eating oysters to compensate with zinc might be a means of bringing the zinc:copper ratio back into balance, however since listening to Morley Robbins about bioavailable copper I'm hesitant to jump on any oyster experiments considered that an excess of zinc "puts copper in handcuffs." Besides that they're outright expensive and inconvenient from where I live.

It's interesting that you mention toxins being stored in the organs because I've heard an argument for both sides of that. One side says that toxins in organs, especially the liver, are transient because they are being conjugated and basically passing through the organ... And because of this, the real threat of stored toxins lies in the fat of the animal.

The other side says inversely that because the organs are responsible for moving the toxins, they therefore contain the highest amounts.

I'm in no place to say which side is closer to reality, but based on experience I do think that it's more important to acquire pastured-raised organs moreso than muscle meat... because at least when buying muscle meat, someone can purchase a lean cut to minimize estrogen, PUFA, mold, etc exposure.

Pairing more carbs before protein is an idea, too. I'll experiment with fruit.

 

[Twohandsondeck]

You eat eggs? white bread? Spinach/collards?

Eggs yes
Bread, spinach, and collards no.

To the extent that I tamper with leaves anymore it's to boil them for 2-3 hours and consume the broth for minerals. Truthfully I still don't know how effective this is as a means of getting minerals, but I'm still giving it a shot as per Peat's mentioning.

In terms of mineral replenishment, so far I've had the best luck with sweet potatoes at night and celery juice in the past... Though I haven't juiced anything in months, lol.

 

[redsun]

You're right, "allergy" was a poor word choice. Overeating red meat isn't going to send anyone to the ER, aheh. Nonetheless, it does seem to trigger skin inflammation in me.

I've considered the copper quandary. To be honest it's pretty likely that I'm copper toxic from a 2 week stent of a raw carnivore diet that I embarked on earlier this year. During that month I ate a considerable amount of raw liver, probably amounting to something like 1/3lb every 3-4 days if I had to guess. I suppose eating oysters to compensate with zinc might be a means of bringing the zinc:copper ratio back into balance, however since listening to Morley Robbins about bioavailable copper I'm hesitant to jump on any oyster experiments considered that an excess of zinc "puts copper in handcuffs." Besides that they're outright expensive and inconvenient from where I live.

It's interesting that you mention toxins being stored in the organs because I've heard an argument for both sides of that. One side says that toxins in organs, especially the liver, are transient because they are being conjugated and basically passing through the organ... And because of this, the real threat of stored toxins lies in the fat of the animal.

The other side says inversely that because the organs are responsible for moving the toxins, they therefore contain the highest amounts.

I'm in no place to say which side is closer to reality, but based on experience I do think that it's more important to acquire pastured-raised organs moreso than muscle meat... because at least when buying muscle meat, someone can purchase a lean cut to minimize estrogen, PUFA, mold, etc exposure.

Pairing more carbs before protein is an idea, too. I'll experiment with fruit.

The main deal here is that depending on how the animal was raised it can accumulate toxic heavy metals in its organs. Its likely also that unhealthy animals would naturally have less efficient liver detox as well. Its hard to say whether this is enough to cause problems.
Copper can be toxic depending on the person. Some people have plenty of copper intake and appear to do fine. Some naturally gravitate to lower copper foods. The copper in liver is definitely very bioavailable though like the rest of the minerals in there. Meat does contain arachidonic acid from a short search on google it says it can exacerbate psoriasis. If that is the case its likely another issue as normally you arent supposed to have problems with these compounds in meat. Psoriasis is of course a problem you shouldnt have for that matter but that's why you are here.

Take it for what its worth, but I use this link from time to time for looking at health problems to try and remedy them and 90% of time following this link has worked. E.g. I took pantothenic acid as recommended by the link for blurred vision, same day my blurriness clears up like magic. It has recommendation for psoriasis if you feel like trying it out have a go, if not, that's about the extent I can assist with as I don't know much about psoriasis.

STEP 35: Check out this list of deficiency symptoms to see if you are lacking in some nutrients

 

[Twohandsondeck]

Oh wow! That's exciting. Thanks for the resource, will definitely see what can be employed. Cheers.

 

[lampofred]

Beef liver is high in copper which could trigger a psoriasis flare. Chicken liver is lower in copper but is high in iron which is also undesirable. Eggs for the most part have all the nutrients that liver has. Oysters are a good source of copper since they come with ample zinc to balance the copper out.

Dr. Peat also said most meat in the USA is pumped with sodium triphosphate and polyamines (serotonin) to increase water weight. Waterlogging = prolactin, and can definitely trigger a psoriasis flare.

And toxins aside, muscle meat by nature raises phosphate, cortisol, serotonin and slows metabolism while being digested. If your thyroid is low, then any further slowing of metabolism could be triggering a flare.

 

[SOMO]

Ever been bitten by a tick?

 

[Lynne]

Ever been bitten by a tick?

Yes, good question because, though rare, meat allergy is a thing. The syptoms are of the allergy rather than intolerance type though. https://allergyfacts.org.au/allergy-anaphylaxis/food-allergens/mammalian-meat-allergy

 

[Twohandsondeck]

Dr. Peat also said most meat in the USA is pumped with sodium triphosphate and polyamines (serotonin) to increase water weight. Waterlogging = prolactin, and can definitely trigger a psoriasis flare.

This is new information to me. Appropriate enough that a primary issue of muscle meat is compounded by an additional stacking of a synthetic version of that original issue when it's made into a conventional version of it's former self. Nice tip.

Ever been bitten by a tick?

Negatory. Man, some bugs know how to hit people where it really hurts.

https://allergyfacts.org.au/allergy-anaphylaxis/food-allergens/mammalian-meat-allergy

Great information, thank you for that share.

 

[tara]

After much experimentation, I'm finally accepting that it's a 1 for 1 allergy that triggers a psoriasis flare up every time it's consumed, especially liver.

Possible questions ...
Which red meat species have you tried?
How much were you eating?
What are you comparing it to? What do you eat when avoiding red meat?
Do you get on OK with 'white' meat, eg chicken, fish, ...?
Other animal proteins?
Other high protein foods?
How fresh was the meat you were eating?

What are you balancing the meat with? What is the rest of the diet like?

How's the gut transit, speed etc?

Have you seen this article of Peat's on meat?
Meat physiology, stress, and degenerative physiology.

You can't be allergic to meat.

AFAIK, there is no protein that is impossible for someone to be allergic to,
They don't seem to be a common allergens, though.
I think some of the breakdown products can cause trouble if the context allows, for instance if the meat is old or transit is slow.

 

[danishispsychic]

I have that Alpha-Gal / Tick/ Lyme allergy and just yesterday tried to eat beef again, because ...well cheeseburgers. I paid for it today. It's a thing.

 

[redsun]

AFAIK, there is no protein that is impossible for someone to be allergic to,
They don't seem to be a common allergens, though.
I think some of the breakdown products can cause trouble if the context allows, for instance if the meat is old or transit is slow.

Not possible, seeing as humans evolved eating meat as the largest source of calories and often the only sustenance for long periods of time. Its like saying a lion can be allergic to antelope. If you are getting reactions from meat, its not the meat protein itself, it may have toxic stuff depending on the animal, how it was raised, and contaminants. There is also that rare case of being bit by a tick causing a problem which I find interesting. And there are a very few cases of allergies to specific meat, but stupidly rare nonetheless.

 

[danishispsychic]

Not possible, seeing as humans evolved eating meat as the largest source of calories and often the only sustenance for long periods of time. Its like saying a lion can be allergic to antelope. If you are getting reactions from meat, its not the meat protein itself, it may have toxic stuff depending on the animal, how it was raised, and contaminants. There is also that rare case of being bit by a tick causing a problem which I find interesting. And there are a very few cases of allergies to specific meat, but stupidly rare nonetheless.

prob not a rare as you think since Lyme is pretty much an epidemic at this point....but ok.

 

[redsun]

prob not a rare as you think since Lyme is pretty much an epidemic at this point....but ok.

But this is exclusive to beef?

 

[tara]

Not possible, seeing as humans evolved eating meat as the largest source of calories and often the only sustenance for long periods of time. Its like saying a lion can be allergic to antelope. If you are getting reactions from meat, its not the meat protein itself, it may have toxic stuff depending on the animal, how it was raised, and contaminants. There is also that rare case of being bit by a tick causing a problem which I find interesting. And there are a very few cases of allergies to specific meat, but stupidly rare nonetheless.

Not possible, or rare?
People get malfunctions that don't support survival sometimes. That's the nature of disease.
Humans can become unable to metabolise carbohydrates, even though human populations have depended on carbs for survival many times.
I agree that there might be issues with meat quality, toxins, etc.

But this is exclusive to beef?

I think it's a component in most mammal meat. I just found this:
Alpha-gal allergy - Wikipedia

 

[Twohandsondeck]

Possible questions ...
Which red meat species have you tried?
How much were you eating?
What are you comparing it to? What do you eat when avoiding red meat?
Do you get on OK with 'white' meat, eg chicken, fish, ...?
Other animal proteins?
Other high protein foods?
How fresh was the meat you were eating?

What are you balancing the meat with? What is the rest of the diet like?

How's the gut transit, speed etc?

Have you seen this article of Peat's on meat?
Meat physiology, stress, and degenerative physiology.

-only cow. More lean grain fed than anything. Pasture raised stuff definitely passes easier but the placebo effect is a powerful thing. Of note, consuming raw pasture raised beef poses the fewest problems but it really feels like it takes forever to digest.

-typically in the amount of 1 pound, but admittedly I can tolerate 4-6 ounces pretty well.

-red meat replacements are either lean chicken, lean fish, eggs, or raw cheese... Lean pork has been fine in the past but I haven't touched it for several months now.

-white meat is fine so long as it's not paired with eggs or starch.

-refer to above

-refer to above

-the pasture raised stuff is butchered the week before, the rest of it is conventional so there's no telling how old it is.

-as far as "balancing" meat, the only thing that seems to be a prerequisite is adequate hydration and liver glycogen stores preceding the meal. If those two criteria aren't met, the difference is night and day.

-rest of the diet is something like: 5% red palm fruit oil, 20% butter, 20% fruit, 10% maple syrup, 30% starch as sweet potato or white rice, 15% protein as eggs or aforementioned meat.
No boxed or canned items, very few excipients. Very few soaked nuts, no beans.

*Fairly certain by now it's an issue of copper toxicity as I binged on cacao and Brazil nuts for about a month earlier this year and then (likely) overate liver shortly thereafter. Going to reintroduce cruciferous vegetables/sulfur and see about hitting the sauna to equalize things.

-gut transit time is fine, usually a decent AM movement. Starch volume from night before dictates stool volume.

I haven't seen that article, thank you for the tip. I'll give it a look and see what pops out.

 

[tara]

-only cow.

I've heard lamb described as one of the least likely foods for people to be allergic to. People who have the tick experience, as above, seem to be OK with non-mammal meat.

-typically in the amount of 1 pound, but admittedly I can tolerate 4-6 ounces pretty well.

That is a quite a large serving.
If you are OK with 4-6 oz, in a balanced meal with other foods, then you may have a solution.

-the pasture raised stuff is butchered the week before, the rest of it is conventional so there's no telling how old it is.

Freshness could make a significant difference. You might find Peat's article relevant.

-as far as "balancing" meat, the only thing that seems to be a prerequisite is adequate hydration and liver glycogen stores preceding the meal. If those two criteria aren't met, the difference is night and day.

If what you mean is that you sometimes have a large meat meal by itself without carbs, that could potentially be stressful. Potentially lots of protein elevating insulin without sufficient carbs to burn for fuel. Liver glycogen stores seem very relevant in this situation.

-gut transit time is fine ...
Good, that reduces risk from some of the meat breakdown.

-rest of the diet is something like: 5% red palm fruit oil, 20% butter, 20% fruit, 10% maple syrup, 30% starch as sweet potato or white rice, 15% protein as eggs or aforementioned meat.

This may or may not have anything to do with your situation, but for me I'd be missing verges, esp. greens for minerals etc. Have you checked cronometer out to get a rough idea about whether you are likely getting mineral needs met? Calcium, magnesium, etc as well as the smaller ones? One of the factors Peat has commented on is calcium to phosphorus ratio.

 

[Waremu]

Beef liver is high in copper which could trigger a psoriasis flare. Chicken liver is lower in copper but is high in iron which is also undesirable. Eggs for the most part have all the nutrients that liver has. Oysters are a good source of copper since they come with ample zinc to balance the copper out.

Dr. Peat also said most meat in the USA is pumped with sodium triphosphate and polyamines (serotonin) to increase water weight. Waterlogging = prolactin, and can definitely trigger a psoriasis flare.

And toxins aside, muscle meat by nature raises phosphate, cortisol, serotonin and slows metabolism while being digested. If your thyroid is low, then any further slowing of metabolism could be triggering a flare.

Chicken liver is not high in iron. It depends on how much you eat, but if someone is eating it daily or every other day, they are likely only having something like 24 or 38 grams or 40 grams but not a much greater amount as a self-ware person would want to be mindful of not consuming too much Vitamin A each day. Assuming that is the case, and thus chicken liver intake or amount is adjusted accordingly, it is not very high in Iron. I take free range organic chicken liver daily for Vitamin A and other nutrients and the amount I take only gives me 35-50% of the RDA for Iron. (I don't want 0% iron daily anyway, because some iron is still needed by the body). I eat little red meat and mostly white fish and shell fish, so that is for the most part my only iron source. But thats not high Iron. If you're already eating a lot of high iron meats then yes, it could then contribute to an overall larger amount of iron, but chicken liver itself is not very exceptionally high in iron when taken in reasonable amounts as mentioned.