Adult Acne. What The Hell Is Wrong With People Like Me?

[EIRE24]

Not yet. I don't see much point if food is available to get the job done. Have you tried it? What type of selenium?

I agree with you, food first! I was just curious if supplementation would do the same thing. I don't like shellfish but halibut seems to have a decent hit of selenium. I have not supplemented it

 

[Tenacity]

I agree with you, food first! I was just curious if supplementation would do the same thing. I don't like shellfish but halibut seems to have a decent hit of selenium. I have not supplemented it

Supplementation could work, but I know some versions of selenium aren't as well absorbed.

 

[ilovethesea]

I'm sick of hearing "vitamin A keeps skin clear". I've dosed massive amount of it and it's never kept my skin fully clear so that's hogwash. If anything it dries my skin out and makes it worse

There is no need to be rude. As a reminder, you are on "Ray Peat Forum" so I don't feel you should find it surprising that people are going to discuss things that Ray himself has repeatedly recommended.

Also, nowhere was I talking about your individual situation, which I am not even familiar with. It's not all about you.

 

[ilovethesea]

I agree. There's more to the cause of acne than just a vitamin A deficiency. For me, selenium from shellfish is the only thing that can consistently clear my skin.

Again, never said vitamin A deficiency was the ONLY cause of acne. Doesn't sound like either of you guys even took the time to fully read my post - I was answering her question about why someone could get acne from taking thyroid. There's a relationship between A and thyroid that Ray has talked about.

There is also a quote where he recommends the trace minerals in shellfish for acne.

 

[Orion]

Again, never said vitamin A deficiency was the ONLY cause of acne. Doesn't sound like either of you guys even took the time to fully read my post - I was answering her question about why someone could get acne from taking thyroid. There's a relationship between A and thyroid that Ray has talked about.

There is also a quote where he recommends the trace minerals in shellfish for acne.

Vitamin A and thyroid are carried in blood via the same protein transthyretin. Ray mentions how easily this is disrupted by unsaturated FFA's. Vitamin A itself is highly saturated, so too much or too little could cause issues.

Vitamin A and thyroid are used with cholesterol to manufacture pregnenolone, which then downstream generates progesterone/DHEA. I believe progesterone is what helps to heal acne by opposing estrogen. But with high tissue estrogen and stored unsaturated fat, DHEA will downstream to testosterone and aromatize to more estrogen. I also believe vitamin A supplements like retinyl palmitate and acetate, will have issues getting converted to retinoic acid, again due to estrogen and unsaturated FFA load, this can make it hit or miss again.

This is why you see many online posts across forums where topical retinoic acid (pure vitamin A) products help, by locally increasing progesterone in the acne prone tissue. Also birth control pills that lack the synthetic progestins seem to cause acne, and sometimes the birth control pills with synthetic progestins will heal acne.

RP's idea that progesterone like Progest-E on the skin could be really helpful.

Mega doses of vitamin A seem to help acne by down regulated metabolism via decreased thyroid production and also providing substrate for progesterone. 500K per day somewhat help my acne, but temps and pulse dropped significantly.

Things that have greatly increased my skin quality are, eating zero PUFA, eating zero fat, keeping blood sugar stable by eating frequently(stopping FFA release), small amounts of B3 to stop FFA release, topical vitamin A/K/E applied to feet, lots of sugar for cholesterol, enough calories to keep temps are 98 or above, and pulse at 80 or above. Just completed 4 months of zero fat eating and skin has never been better, but that is just my experience, but I am will continue this approach, nothing else has worked for me. Started Progest-E on acne prone areas last week, and seems helpful. Will continue on and report on my experiments.

 

[EIRE24]

There is no need to be rude. As a reminder, you are on "Ray Peat Forum" so I don't feel you should find it surprising that people are going to discuss things that Ray himself has repeatedly recommended.

Also, nowhere was I talking about your individual situation, which I am not even familiar with. It's not all about you.

Think as you can see I can say whatever I want. Non authorarian forum as you stated things that ray peat recommends

 

[Tenacity]

Again, never said vitamin A deficiency was the ONLY cause of acne. Doesn't sound like either of you guys even took the time to fully read my post - I was answering her question about why someone could get acne from taking thyroid. There's a relationship between A and thyroid that Ray has talked about.

There is also a quote where he recommends the trace minerals in shellfish for acne.

I didn't read your post, you're right. I only read EIRE's post. I wasn't trying to argue with anyone, just agreeing with EIRE's point.

Thanks for mentioning that quote, perhaps I can find it on the Ray Peat search engine.

 

[tara]

I'm sick of hearing "vitamin A keeps skin clear". I've dosed massive amount of it and it's never kept my skin fully clear so that's hogwash.

Think as you can see I can say whatever I want.

Please remain courteous and do not criticise posters for discussing Peat's writing and how it may be relevant to the OP.
Terms of Service and Rules | Ray Peat Forum

 

[EIRE24]

Please remain courteous and do not criticise posters for discussing Peat's writing and how it may be relevant to the OP.
Terms of Service and Rules | Ray Peat Forum

Where did I criticise anyone? I just gave my opinion and she is offended over my beliefs?

 

[ilovethesea]

Vitamin A and thyroid are carried in blood via the same protein transthyretin. Ray mentions how easily this is disrupted by unsaturated FFA's. Vitamin A itself is highly saturated, so too much or too little could cause issues.

Vitamin A and thyroid are used with cholesterol to manufacture pregnenolone, which then downstream generates progesterone/DHEA. I believe progesterone is what helps to heal acne by opposing estrogen. But with high tissue estrogen and stored unsaturated fat, DHEA will downstream to testosterone and aromatize to more estrogen. I also believe vitamin A supplements like retinyl palmitate and acetate, will have issues getting converted to retinoic acid, again due to estrogen and unsaturated FFA load, this can make it hit or miss again.

This is why you see many online posts across forums where topical retinoic acid (pure vitamin A) products help, by locally increasing progesterone in the acne prone tissue. Also birth control pills that lack the synthetic progestins seem to cause acne, and sometimes the birth control pills with synthetic progestins will heal acne.

RP's idea that progesterone like Progest-E on the skin could be really helpful.

Mega doses of vitamin A seem to help acne by down regulated metabolism via decreased thyroid production and also providing substrate for progesterone. 500K per day somewhat help my acne, but temps and pulse dropped significantly.

Things that have greatly increased my skin quality are, eating zero PUFA, eating zero fat, keeping blood sugar stable by eating frequently(stopping FFA release), small amounts of B3 to stop FFA release, topical vitamin A/K/E applied to feet, lots of sugar for cholesterol, enough calories to keep temps are 98 or above, and pulse at 80 or above. Just completed 4 months of zero fat eating and skin has never been better, but that is just my experience, but I am will continue this approach, nothing else has worked for me. Started Progest-E on acne prone areas last week, and seems helpful. Will continue on and report on my experiments.

Thanks your posts always give me lots of food for thought! Glad you are still doing well on the low fat routine.

I agree it's important to monitor thyroid function when taking vitamin A. This is a really good quote from Ray...

For several years, I had a similar need to take 100,000 i.u. daily to prevent acne and ingrown whiskers, so I read a lot about its effects. The toxic effects of extremely big doses, such as 500,000 to a million i.u., seem to be from either oxidative processes (rancidity) that are prevented by adequate vitamin E, or by antithyroid effects. I found that when my need for vitamin A began to decrease I tended to accumulate carotene in my calluses; that happens when the thyroid function is lower, reducing the need for vitamin A. Since you are eating foods with carotene, the calluses on your palms or soles should serve as an indicator of when your tissues are saturated with vitamin A. About 100 i.u. of vitamin E would help to keep the vitamin A from being wasted by oxidation, and possibly could reduce your requirement for it.

So I'm not sure if I agree that vitamin A is as hit or miss as you think, or that the high doses work by lowering metabolism.

I've taken the same dose as Ray, 100k of vitamin A supplement for a while, with only good effects. I was also taking vitamin E and thyroid at the same time. But I find I don't need the A if I'm also taking Progest E or pregnenolone.

Interesting about the mechanism of topical vitamin A. It's always been claimed to work by "increasing skin cell turnover" and "increasing collagen production". Ray said excess collagen production is a stress reaction and slow turnover is actually more desirable. So does topical vitamin A not actually do those things? And we don't need to be worried about topical vitamin A even though Ray has said the stronger form (RetinA) is toxic?

Aren't all birth control pills estrogenic by nature? I think estrogen can both cause acne and get rid of it. When it gets rid of it, Ray said the mechanism is that it makes oil glands atrophy so they don't support bacterial growth. I guess when it causes acne, it's because of lowered thyroid function/lowered progesterone.

I've tried Progest E on my face and the vitamin E oil makes me break out. I might try Health Natura's in MCT oil.

 

[Note]

That explanation is a bit over my head, i'm sorry but you are saying that androgens drop but I thought it was estrogen which caused the acne?

I think not washing your face that often is wise. The face should naturally be left to its own devises as the oils it produces are anti bacterial and moisturise the face naturally.

I used to wash my face very rare for sometime, but my skin doesn't look great, clogged pores.
However water dries my skin too.

 

[ilovethesea]

Where did I criticise anyone? I just gave my opinion and she is offended over my beliefs?

Courteousness is the part you missed. That's fine if something didn't work for you. But saying "I'm sick of hearing ..." and calling others opinions "hogwash" doesn't exactly promote a constructive discussion.

Of course you can say whatever you want but don't call me an authoritarian for asking for common courtesy. It's pretty simple.

 

[bohogirl]

So it's been quite awhile.

In a way I've kinda let go of everything I already know/think I know.

Went on vacation, only had 1 day of sun/ocean water. I got a bit burned and started peeling but it went away pretty quick.

I stuck to a pretty clean diet, except I had lettuce burgers with ketchup and whatever sauce they put on it (not sure if it contains dairy or not) and who know really what else was in there.

I also ate the usual: oysters, fruit, kefir, eggs, mandarins, orange juice, dried mangoes, chicken.

I also used iodized salt on my eggs since there wasn't any other kind. I've been reading recently about iodine. Everything was pointing me to iodine. I myself blamed iodine for my vitamin breakout, as did everyone else on acne.org without any real evidence. Before I went on vacation I read about a lady who took iodine and cured herself of acne.

I had one cyst on my jawline flare. I was pretty upset, felt defeated. I don't remember if it was after the salt or not. But after that day of flaring, it started shrinking.

And that's what I also read in the article. That iodine may cause an initial flare but then it starts working. How much iodine did I really get? I don't know. Was it the one day of vitamin D? The ocean water?

I came back home and decided that maybe my diet is also causing me from getting everything I need/healing.

So I tried bulgur wheat. I believe I had stopped wheat because it was making my breathing worse/causing congestion and not because it was causing acne.

My diet has become so restrictive that I never enjoyed my food nor have ever felt full or satisfied.

I made bulgur with chicken stock and sometimes just cook the bulgur with water.

Let's just say I had a field day. Since I believe rice gives me acne, this has been a substitute for rice.

I noticed I wasn't getting acne and the small spots that tried to form healed quickly.

I also tried iodized Morton salt again. I've been using Celtic sea salt for a really long time, I do prefer the taste of the sea salt, but I can deal with it.

Same results. Acne shrinking/drying out and healing.

So, is it something in bulgur, is it the salt, or is it both? One day of vitamin D? Ocean water?

Idk but I do know that what you think you know/what you believe to be true may be just the opposite and can keep you from healing yourself.

I'm still cold and have not solved my thyroid issues entirely but let's just say iodine is not my enemy anymore, and maybe just maybe I need more of it.

I'm slightly congested but can still breathe out of my nose.

My period is supposed to be coming soon.

I brought my thermometer on vacation but I maybe tracked one temp. :/

I'm feeling more hopeful and I'm hoping that I am onto something.

Lesson: keep an open mind, what you may think you know may be false

Ps. I also have had no vitamin A/liver in awhile. I believe last time I ate was a day before my vacation. So around 20 days it's been.

 

[EIRE24]

So it's been quite awhile.

In a way I've kinda let go of everything I already know/think I know.

Went on vacation, only had 1 day of sun/ocean water. I got a bit burned and started peeling but it went away pretty quick.

I stuck to a pretty clean diet, except I had lettuce burgers with ketchup and whatever sauce they put on it (not sure if it contains dairy or not) and who know really what else was in there.

I also ate the usual: oysters, fruit, kefir, eggs, mandarins, orange juice, dried mangoes, chicken.

I also used iodized salt on my eggs since there wasn't any other kind. I've been reading recently about iodine. Everything was pointing me to iodine. I myself blamed iodine for my vitamin breakout, as did everyone else on acne.org without any real evidence. Before I went on vacation I read about a lady who took iodine and cured herself of acne.

I had one cyst on my jawline flare. I was pretty upset, felt defeated. I don't remember if it was after the salt or not. But after that day of flaring, it started shrinking.

And that's what I also read in the article. That iodine may cause an initial flare but then it starts working. How much iodine did I really get? I don't know. Was it the one day of vitamin D? The ocean water?

I came back home and decided that maybe my diet is also causing me from getting everything I need/healing.

So I tried bulgur wheat. I believe I had stopped wheat because it was making my breathing worse/causing congestion and not because it was causing acne.

My diet has become so restrictive that I never enjoyed my food nor have ever felt full or satisfied.

I made bulgur with chicken stock and sometimes just cook the bulgur with water.

Let's just say I had a field day. Since I believe rice gives me acne, this has been a substitute for rice.

I noticed I wasn't getting acne and the small spots that tried to form healed quickly.

I also tried iodized Morton salt again. I've been using Celtic sea salt for a really long time, I do prefer the taste of the sea salt, but I can deal with it.

Same results. Acne shrinking/drying out and healing.

So, is it something in bulgur, is it the salt, or is it both? One day of vitamin D? Ocean water?

Idk but I do know that what you think you know/what you believe to be true may be just the opposite and can keep you from healing yourself.

I'm still cold and have not solved my thyroid issues entirely but let's just say iodine is not my enemy anymore, and maybe just maybe I need more of it.

I'm slightly congested but can still breathe out of my nose.

My period is supposed to be coming soon.

I brought my thermometer on vacation but I maybe tracked one temp. :/

I'm feeling more hopeful and I'm hoping that I am onto something.

Lesson: keep an open mind, what you may think you know may be false

Ps. I also have had no vitamin A/liver in awhile. I believe last time I ate was a day before my vacation. So around 20 days it's been.

Any update? Vitamin A obfuscation obviously isn't been working

 

[bohogirl]

Any update? Vitamin A obfuscation obviously isn't been working

So some days I'm eating more iodized salt. For example, one day I ate more iodized salt and had no bulgur. Some spots popped up (small and nothing like before) The next day I had iodized salt along with bulgur and the day after again, the spots start drying out. When I say I'm havin iodized salt, using salting my salad, which isn't that much but it's still something.

I don't know what exactly is helping.

The iodine in the salt is probably not the best because it has added ingredients but if it's the iodine that is truly helping me I will switch to a different source.

my skin is not perfect at all, but if this is the type of "acne" I have to deal with them hello new acne. Nothing compared to before.

I have a long ways to go to clear my skin and to be comfortable in it, but I am hoping that this is the start. Can't expect overnight miracle, although I wish.

Still dealing with huge forehead pores. This must be related to something because it's pretty much concentrated mostly on the forehead. I also have these tiny bumps under my eyes. Not milia, not sure what they are.

Still haven't had any vitamin a.

I'm still yellow skin toned so any beta carotene I do have is not turning into vitamin a.

Still getting cold feet.

Getting a new blood test soon.

I hope to start on thyroid again, a bit hesitant though, hope it doesn't give me acne.

Also dealing with dry skin.

 

[Note]

What about blackheads?

 

[bohogirl]

What about blackheads?

I have them on my nose and on the sides on my cheeks by my nose. I extracted them yesterday so only time will tell if they come back.

Acne is very hard to treat. Everyone has different kinds and different treatments will work.

 

[bohogirl]

There was a point in my life where I was eating a lot of fast food and ice cream and whatever I wanted for like a month and I wasn't breaking out. I was happier but I don't notice more acne when I'm sad.

Perhaps it's the amount sodium and or iodine if they use iodized salt? Don't know.

 

[mjrm]

how severe is your acne?

 

[bohogirl]

how severe is your acne?

I would say was severe. Caused horrible disfiguring scarring.