Adrenarche, Anger, Depression, Mood swings in children

[healthiswellth]

A relative recently asked me for help about 7yo son who has extreme mood swings/ having outbursts of anger (slamming doors, shouting, etc) and other times crying for very minor issues. School is saying he’s has trouble staying on task and he has occupational therapy teaching him techniques to stay focused. Very intelligent, but unable to self-regulate. This has started in the last 1-1.5 years and mood and behavior have gotten progressively worse. Other issues: underweight, doesn’t eat as much as he’s should. They try to minimize pufa but they still eat wheat/bread, because that is one of the few things he does eat. They bake with organic flour at home. A big problem is that he is very picky eater so that’s why they resort to supplements when they have something like liver easily available.

Also, sleep is an issue, he gets probably less sleep than he needs on school nights but then even on weekends he wakes up really early. What could help him stay asleep more soundly, longer? I’ve recommended milk/collagen/sugar or honey drink before bed.

When he started school, he was way more advanced than his peers. I’ve read that if a child is a little above his/her peers, he is confident and appreciative of the praise / admiration from teacher and others but if they are far advanced, they get frustrated and act out. I believe that being forced to go to school for 6 hours as a 5-6 year old, early in the morning when they would force him to wake up, and being in a class where he already knew everything at least partially led to this. He was fine at first but stopped participating and began losing interest in learning. He is not behind in any subject but he certainly did not reach his full potential. The family wants to figure out a way to halt and reverse this before the school or others recommends medicating him. They have tried enrolling him in after school activities that are mentally and physically stimulating like martial arts and STEM- classes, hands-on electronics classes. In the beginning he liked them, but then lost interest. They have been trying to reduce screen time, limited to car rides when his behavior becomes a safety risk and certain outings (like restaurants).
I’ve also read that age ~6-9 is adrenarche period, where the body produces more androgens, which can lead to behavioral changes.

I’ve combed through this forum and have recommended the following:

Magnesium and Epsom salt baths
B-vitamins in the form of nutritional yeast
Bovine colostrum for gut health


These he’s been taking inconsistently:
Bioray “Happy” medicine for kids in case of parasites (main ingredients: wormwood, black walnut hull, cloves)
Mary a Ruth “Focus and attention” ( astragalus, wood beyond, ginkgo, gotu kola, eleuthero, licorice, lavender, spearmint, passionflower)——this we are finding alternative for because lavender and spearmint can cause hormonal disruption for young boys


I’m wondering if he might have heavy metal toxicity because of chocolate (to avoid soy, they get organic baking chocolate and mix with milk powder and brown sugar or honey to sweeten)

a few positives already in place:
They avoid artificial colors, sweeteners, etc. and most additives.
collagen, coconut oil, grass fed butter, grass fed beef and bone broth, raw honey, cows milk (up til age 4 he was able to get organic/ grass fed but now only conventional is available) and camel milk is a staple in the diet. Rice in cooked like pasta which removes most of the arsenic.

What blood tests or hair mineral analysis would you all recommend? Any thoughts appreciated.

 

[healthiswellth]

It accidentally got deleted from my initial post, but important to note: the crying is excessive, and sometimes he’ll remind himself of something that happened earlier and start crying all over again. What is the most worrying is that sometimes in anger or sadness he will say he wishes he wasn’t alive.

 

[Peachy]

That’s great that he’s in occupational therapy. I’m a big believer. Especially if the therapist does a lot of physical things - spinning, swinging, crashing.

Could he have a learning disability? My son is highly intelligent but had to work through a language comprehension disorder that contributed this type of behavior. It was very hard to detect since he was reading early and writing letters to relatives (in cursive) at age 4.

His diet looks good with the broth, beef, butter, milk. He needs a ton of carbs and overall calories. What about fruit? Ice cream, sweetened yogurt, cheese? I have a healthy, dense gluten-free blondies recipe I’ll dig up. White rice is easier to process and doesn’t need to be rinsed because it’s low in arsenic.

It sounds like they are focused on purity which is good, but not if it gets in the way of abundance. Steady drip of calories.

I’d personally drop the supplements you mentioned (Bioray happy and the focus herbs). I used to try these types of things with my son that age and they didn’t work.

Magnesium is good taken before school as well as at night.

Lots of patience, love, grace. It’s not easy. My heart goes out to your family.

 

[healthiswellth]

I never thought about learning disability— like your son, he began reading/writing and math very early.

Specifics from school: the teacher will ask him to write something on the board and he will draw instead to make everyone laugh. He will be sitting in front of a worksheet and not do it while everyone else is, knowing that he is supposed to. He says the answer to the teacher but won’t write it down on the sheet because he says I already know the answer, why do I have to write it down? He gets sent out of class to finish up stuff on a desk outside as to not distract others. He doesn’t care if he gets in trouble. But he is very sensitive and he gets overly emotional if the teacher says something harsh to him....I suspect the teacher may have gotten irate and spoken harshly to him a few times out of frustration.
It seems like he won’t focus for long periods of time whereas when he was 2-3 , he could spend hours just reading and writing and doing numbers. If he sees a worksheet he will already get overwhelmed at the idea of having to do the whole thing, or start writing a sentence and then give up just because it’s boring to him. It’s not that he can’t , because he’s read a chapter book in one sitting. He has spent focused time building with toy bricks. He will take apart an electronic device and rearrange it.

When they’ve told his teachers, their response is that well, you can’t just do things you like all the time. Sometimes you have to have the willpower and discipline to sit through something you don’t like which is still important to learn.

More and more, they notice he likes to do “easier” things which don’t require much effort— ex. IPad or he will be excited to bake and only go halfway through and then get distracted and want to do something else. So not staying on task, and not completing tasks. Teacher says he gets very antsy.

As for the emotional part, examples:
He will pack his stuff for swimming but when they arrive they find out the pool is closed and even though there are other fun activities at the center , he cries and makes a big deal about having to pack all his stuff for no reason.

He has a friend who is not a very good influence on him. The other kid doesn’t do anything bad, but gets him to be disrespectful and act out. And he just does it not to lose this friendship. He acts out when he is around this other kid, to try to impress him. He lets this friend hit him, take his pocket money and toys. But if he were to do the same ( ruin the other kid’s toy, push him etc) the other kid would not stand for it, and he would apologize and cry and get very depressed just to be friends again with this other kid. He basically lets the kid take advantage of him.

Don’t know if this is relevant or not: he is very aggressive ( in a non-violent way) with his baby’s brother, squishing his face, hugging him tightly, etc. like in an overly-loving sort of way.

Again it’s weird because all of these things happened recently. The kids also didn’t really sick much before , but this past year they have been gets cold/cough/flu back to back for extended periods of time.

To answer your questions— time permitting, they do homemade icecream, the healthiest one they have in store has xanthan and guar gum and carageenan. They eat out 1-2 times a week with other relatives and junk those times is just unavoidable. He likes plain yogurt with cucumber, he doesn’t eat a lot of fruits, only apples peeled and grapes sometimes.
The mom makes smoothies and just forces/bribes him sometimes Bc he’s been getting sick so often. The tactic they have is if they can get him to eat a little of the really potent stuff: broth,collagen, smoothie, etc so they get their micronutrients/vitamins, (even if by force/bribery) then they can have as much of anything else as they want Bc she wants to try to get them to have as many calories as possible. So this means milk and the healthy kind of Oreos / gluten free organic corn-based cereal, fries cooked in coconut oil, homemade baked goods with organic flour/coconut flour, homemade frosting made with butter. Homemade caramel. Etc.

Thank you all for listening/reading the long posts

 

[redsun]

I never thought about learning disability— like your son, he began reading/writing and math very early.

Specifics from school: the teacher will ask him to write something on the board and he will draw instead to make everyone laugh. He will be sitting in front of a worksheet and not do it while everyone else is, knowing that he is supposed to. He says the answer to the teacher but won’t write it down on the sheet because he says I already know the answer, why do I have to write it down? He gets sent out of class to finish up stuff on a desk outside as to not distract others. He doesn’t care if he gets in trouble. But he is very sensitive and he gets overly emotional if the teacher says something harsh to him....I suspect the teacher may have gotten irate and spoken harshly to him a few times out of frustration.
It seems like he won’t focus for long periods of time whereas when he was 2-3 , he could spend hours just reading and writing and doing numbers. If he sees a worksheet he will already get overwhelmed at the idea of having to do the whole thing, or start writing a sentence and then give up just because it’s boring to him. It’s not that he can’t , because he’s read a chapter book in one sitting. He has spent focused time building with toy bricks. He will take apart an electronic device and rearrange it.

When they’ve told his teachers, their response is that well, you can’t just do things you like all the time. Sometimes you have to have the willpower and discipline to sit through something you don’t like which is still important to learn.

More and more, they notice he likes to do “easier” things which don’t require much effort— ex. IPad or he will be excited to bake and only go halfway through and then get distracted and want to do something else. So not staying on task, and not completing tasks. Teacher says he gets very antsy.

As for the emotional part, examples:
He will pack his stuff for swimming but when they arrive they find out the pool is closed and even though there are other fun activities at the center , he cries and makes a big deal about having to pack all his stuff for no reason.

He has a friend who is not a very good influence on him. The other kid doesn’t do anything bad, but gets him to be disrespectful and act out. And he just does it not to lose this friendship. He acts out when he is around this other kid, to try to impress him. He lets this friend hit him, take his pocket money and toys. But if he were to do the same ( ruin the other kid’s toy, push him etc) the other kid would not stand for it, and he would apologize and cry and get very depressed just to be friends again with this other kid. He basically lets the kid take advantage of him.

Don’t know if this is relevant or not: he is very aggressive ( in a non-violent way) with his baby’s brother, squishing his face, hugging him tightly, etc. like in an overly-loving sort of way.

Again it’s weird because all of these things happened recently. The kids also didn’t really sick much before , but this past year they have been gets cold/cough/flu back to back for extended periods of time.

To answer your questions— time permitting, they do homemade icecream, the healthiest one they have in store has xanthan and guar gum and carageenan. They eat out 1-2 times a week with other relatives and junk those times is just unavoidable. He likes plain yogurt with cucumber, he doesn’t eat a lot of fruits, only apples peeled and grapes sometimes.
The mom makes smoothies and just forces/bribes him sometimes Bc he’s been getting sick so often. The tactic they have is if they can get him to eat a little of the really potent stuff: broth,collagen, smoothie, etc so they get their micronutrients/vitamins, (even if by force/bribery) then they can have as much of anything else as they want Bc she wants to try to get them to have as many calories as possible. So this means milk and the healthy kind of Oreos / gluten free organic corn-based cereal, fries cooked in coconut oil, homemade baked goods with organic flour/coconut flour, homemade frosting made with butter. Homemade caramel. Etc.

Thank you all for listening/reading the long posts

I see you mentioned quite a few things he eats, but does he eat eggs? Low levels of acetylcholine can contribute to persistent anger/aggression, increased emotional lability, frustration with schoolwork and increased distractibility.

 

[healthiswellth]

pasture-raised eggs in homemade baked goods or French toast (which I guess oxidizes the cholesterol in the yolk)

Raw-ish/Tempered with hot milk in homemade ice-cream

 

[healthiswellth]

I just thought of a recipe that I make for myself that can be altered (remove coffee) for him with eggs and calories in mind:

Milk, butter, coconut oil, 2 eggs, chocolate/cocoa, sugar/honey - blended, then put in fridge. It has the creamiest consistency chilled, like really velvety, extra soft-serve ice cream.

 

[Peachy]

I meant to come back to this. A lot of the things you describe sound like the struggles I had with my son around that age. Things improved around age 10 and have continued to get better. Puberty was a big reset. Now he’s 16 and doing really well.

One thing that really helped was taking him to a park to shoot some hoops in the morning on the way to school. Another thing that helped - his teacher let him have snacks whenever he wanted. He was in montessori school and they give the kids a lot more freedom there. I might have played the hypoglycemic card elsewhere.

 

[Warrior]

Give the child free reign to stamp and yell as much as they wish at home whilst the parents just sit quietly observe and pay heed to what he is venting. The reasons for this are two fold but the actual physical act grounds out excess energies via the heels so for best results do it bare feet with nature beneath if you can. Still effective indoors but working directly with Earth energies is sometimes needed if the case is extreme.

Once he's released whats bothering him the next step is instruction of inserting one finger in his belly button and "hooking" upwards with a firm presence and using the opposing digit on his other hand between the eyebrows with the same strength as he takes deep breaths in through his nose, down to his kidneys and out via pursed lips with the intent of expelling as much air as he can by pulling his belly button in whilst keeping both fingers connected. Around 18 to 36 of these is recommended but let the child make this decision as you'll easily tell the difference.

Frame it as the Angry Smiley game. Have the parents play it themselves first to demonstrate as they'll gain some benefits themselves. Create a time and place for it so the child feels a sense of agency and potential release to generate a taste of internal freedom.



Matter of fact I challenge all of you reading to do this and see what happens. Put my perspective to the test and report back your findings...

 

[Peachy]

I do think the learning disability played into it though. When we got him tested at age 9, it turned out he was reading on a college level but processing new information on a 2nd grade level. He had to be trained to build pictures in his mind which is what most people do naturally. It affected any kind of language, spoken or written.

I don’t mean to send anyone down the path of testing and therapy because it can be a bit much. Cost and energy. But for us, intervention helped. (And this child in your family may not even have an issue there - I just thought I’d mention it.)

 

[Nfinkelstein]

You might consider a homeopathic response. Paul Herscu has written a book The Homeopathic Treatment of Children: Pediatric Constitutional Types --- it is easy to read and some (several) of the characteristics you describe are presented in the book, along with the appropriate remedy. If the child you are referring to is able to be referred to a skilled practitioner (Paul and especially his wife Amy work with children, they are based out of Northampton, Mass.) it could be of life changing value.

 

[makaronai]

The fact that there’s a baby brother stood out to me. Maybe he’s feeling a lack of love and attention? Maybe he’s left to be on his own too much? Either way, as the poster above says, I’ve seen cases where homeopathy worked well for emotional issues. It can be hard (and eventually expensive) to find the right practitioner though…maybe for the time being it’d be worth looking into Bach’s flower remedies for everyone involved?

 

[healthiswellth]

Thank you everyone for the suggestions— @Peachy — that’s interesting about building pictures in your mind, was there a specific ways they tested this? We’re there specific questions they ask the child after presenting new info. I guess the occupational therapist would know, will definitely ask them to check on that.

@Warrior— that method sounds intriguing, I’m not sure if I understand the steps — “opposing digit on his other hand” do you mean if the finger in belly button is the left hand index, he should use the right hand index finger to press his forehead between eyebrows?

And yes I totally agree with “yelling/stamping etc “ expressing his aggressiveness in a safe manner — I saw this video where Jordan Peterson says rats deprived of aggressive play have deficits in prefrontal cortex.

I know they used to go to the beach to run around in the sand every weekend or so, there isn’t a lot of real grass/earth nearby where they live.

@makaronai— he gets less attention than before definitely, and he gets reprimanded for sometimes playing in an unsafe manner with baby brother/ shouting and waking baby up BUT he LOVES baby’s brother and baby brother LOVES him and they are happiest when together. I’ve never heard of/ used Bach’s flowers , will look it up

One new development which is why it took me so long to respond is that the whole family were all severely itchy and didn’t really notice at first, then went to Derm and found out it was scabies— they all used the permethrin cream and are better now, thankfully, and in a recent parent- teacher conference, the occupational therapist mentioned that most of the kids she works with learn the self -regulating tools and through awareness, and use of tools, they eventually grow out of it, or learn to manage it well enough — the tools becomes habits/learned behaviors that they don’t actually need a therapist later on.

Im going to make a separate thread but the middle child - 4 year old girl- started getting vitiligo — she had 2 white patches underarm before and within the past month or so it has increased - they are doing blood test for diabetes/thyroid/vitamin D/calcium—- results not in yet—and they have given an immune-modulator cream ( Elidel) and steroid cream (Xemaderm) but she hasn’t started putting it on her daughter yet. She started school this year so she has been getting less sleep than before - they are trying their best to make sure she gets enough- also, more colds because she’s around other kids.
Any thoughts/suggestions on what other tests are important to get? I heard check for gluten sensitivity IgE test, and anti-TPO anti-TG...


thank you all

 

[Peachy]

@healthiswellth I couldn’t remember exactly how they tested but this blurb from NIH sounds about right.

Providers usually use a series of tests to diagnose a reading disorder. They assess a person’s memory, spelling abilities, visual perception, and reading skills. Family history, a child’s history of response to instruction, and other assessments might also be involved.

He went through a program called Visualizing & Verbalizing by Lindamood Bell with an SLP. This seems to be a pretty standard route/solution for reading comprehension issues - building pictures.

It wasn’t just written language but spoken language was hard for him to process as well. This would frustrate teachers who thought he just wasn’t listening.

And yes, the OT should be a good person to ask as well.

Sorry to hear about the issues the little girl is going through. Hope you get some answers!