Adrenalin - Histamine - Carrot

[managing]

Don't know if anybody is still reading this, but updating:

Third day after carrot elimination was a little better. I discontinued antihistamine use that the carrot necessitated and slept well through the night. Minor phlegm when I woke up tells me not back to 100% yet, but getting there.

Bike ride morning of 4th day: some chest tightness and a little heartburn, but better.

 

[Pet Peeve]

Don't know if anybody is still reading this, but updating:

Third day after carrot elimination was a little better. I discontinued antihistamine use that the carrot necessitated and slept well through the night. Minor phlegm when I woke up tells me not back to 100% yet, but getting there.

Bike ride morning of 4th day: some chest tightness and a little heartburn, but better.

Please keep us updated. Interested to hear how it works out. I often read old threads but many times the conclusion is missing, and the conclusion is always useful information.

 

[managing]

Please keep us updated. Interested to hear how it works out. I often read old threads but many times the conclusion is missing, and the conclusion is always useful information.

5th and 6th days even better. I've really been packing in fruit juice the last few days especially between meals. Kern's fruit nectars just eliminated HFCS* and I've been drinking those between meals. Virtually no asthma and little allergy symptoms.

I've had some skin irritation/hives in ways that suggest endotoxin. Yet the fruit juice/sugar seems to help, more than AC at this point.

I am beginning to think the Birch allergy that somebody posted is a likely explanation (carrot mimicking Birch, immune system reacting as if).

No problem with Fructose per se, but HFCS is a VERY processed food and thus I prefer to avoid it.

 

[managing]

Okay, so I've noticed something very strange. I am getting the histamine response with activated charcoal too. So, if I am adsorbing endotoxins and presumably reducing estrogen and serotonin, what is it about that that could actually raise histamine?

Here is my only hypothesis I can come up with, and it won't be a popular one in peat land. Endotoxins are the metabolites of microbes--literally their waste products. Are there any metabolites (invoking the so called "good gut flora" theory) that are beneficial/inhibitory of histamine?

Okay, here is another: histamine is an inflammatory response. Can the carrot/ac be causing inflammation? or adsorbing something that counters inflammation? Running counter to this entirely is that the apparent effects of both carrot and AC is greater comfort of the bowel, which certainly suggests the opposite of inflammation.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Okay, so I've noticed something very strange. I am getting the histamine response with activated charcoal too. So, if I am adsorbing endotoxins and presumably reducing estrogen and serotonin, what is it about that that could actually raise histamine?

Here is my only hypothesis I can come up with, and it won't be a popular one in peat land. Endotoxins are the metabolites of microbes--literally their waste products. Are there any metabolites (invoking the so called "good gut flora" theory) that are beneficial/inhibitory of histamine?

Okay, here is another: histamine is an inflammatory response. Can the carrot/ac be causing inflammation? or adsorbing something that counters inflammation? Running counter to this entirely is that the apparent effects of both carrot and AC is greater comfort of the bowel, which certainly suggests the opposite of inflammation.

I think carrot can cause secretion of serotonin by mechanically scratching the gut wall. This can be inflammatory.

 

[managing]

I've been wondering same. I haven't experienced discomfor that I can link to it, but maybe you wouldn't? Its also not clear how serotonin and histamine are linked. But gut irritation - inflammation - histamine are all related things.

I'm going to try to lay off for awhile. Which is frustrating, as I do get "endotoxin" symptoms like excessive urination and skin symptoms. The carrot and AC both knock those down nicely, but at the expense of histamine increase.

 

[kaybb]

Orange juice gives me skin problem. Orange is known to release histamine.

There are lot of studies on antibiotic induced endotoxemia. By definition, gram
negative bacteria release endotoxin when it dies. Here is one study from quick google search.

Diagn Microbiol Infect Dis. 1993 Mar-Apr;16(3):185-9.
Effect of antibiotics on endotoxin release from gram-negative bacteria.
Eng RH1, Smith SM, Fan-Havard P, Ogbara T.
Author information

Abstract
Antibiotics may inhibit bacterial growth or may kill bacteria by inhibiting cell wall synthesis or protein synthesis. The amount of endotoxin released during antibiotic action has been found to be clinically important. Nine antibiotics, representing seven classes, were studied for the amounts of endotoxin released during their action on susceptible strains of Escherichia coli, Klebsiella pneumoniae, Enterobacter cloacae, and Pseudomonas aeruginosa. Staphylococcus aureus, which produces no endotoxin, was used as a control organism. Aztreonam induced the highest release of endotoxin, whereas other antibiotics such as imipenem and the quinolones induced the lowest release of endotoxin. Although the quantities of endotoxin released are not easily explained from the established mechanisms of antibiotic action, our findings may have implications for therapy of the acutely ill, septic patient in whom release of large quantities of endotoxin may be catastrophic.a

Another study showing coconut oil increasing blood endotoxin in pigs. I have seen similar
studies with human. It is the immediate result of antibiotic action. In long term use coconut
oil should lower endotoxin by lowering number of bacteria.

Dietary oil composition differentially modulates intestinal endotoxin transport and postprandial endotoxemia.
Mani V1, Hollis JH, Gabler NK.
Author information

Abstract

BACKGROUND:
Intestinal derived endotoxin and the subsequent endotoxemia can be considered major predisposing factors for diseases such as atherosclerosis, sepsis, obesity and diabetes. Dietary fat has been shown to increase postprandial endotoxemia. Therefore, the aim of this study was to assess the effects of different dietary oils on intestinal endotoxin transport and postprandial endotoxemia using swine as a model. We hypothesized that oils rich in saturated fatty acids (SFA) would augment, while oils rich in n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) would attenuate intestinal endotoxin transport and circulating concentrations.

METHODS:
Postprandial endotoxemia was measured in twenty four pigs following a porridge meal made with either water (Control), fish oil (FO), vegetable oil (VO) or coconut oil (CO). Blood was collected at 0, 1, 2, 3 and 5 hours postprandial and measured for endotoxin. Furthermore, ex vivo ileum endotoxin transport was assessed using modified Ussing chambers and intestines were treated with either no oil or 12.5% (v/v) VO, FO, cod liver oil (CLO), CO or olive oil (OO). Ex vivo mucosal to serosal endotoxin transport permeability (Papp) was then measured by the addition of fluorescent labeled-lipopolysaccharide.

RESULTS:
Postprandial serum endotoxin concentrations were increased after a meal rich in saturated fatty acids and decreased with higher n-3 PUFA intake. Compared to the no oil control, fish oil and CLO which are rich in n-3 fatty acids reduced ex vivo endotoxin Papp by 50% (P < 0.05). Contrarily, saturated fatty acids increased the Papp by 60% (P = 0.008). Olive and vegetable oils did not alter intestinal endotoxin Papp.

CONCLUSION:
Overall, these results indicate that saturated and n-3 PUFA differentially regulate intestinal epithelial endotoxin transport. This may be associated with fatty acid regulation of intestinal membrane lipid raft mediated permeability.

Orange juice gives me skin problem. Orange is known to release histamine.

There are lot of studies on antibiotic induced endotoxemia. By definition, gram
negative bacteria release endotoxin when it dies. Here is one study from quick google search.

Diagn Microbiol Infect Dis. 1993 Mar-Apr;16(3):185-9.
Effect of antibiotics on endotoxin release from gram-negative bacteria.
Eng RH1, Smith SM, Fan-Havard P, Ogbara T.
Author information

Abstract
Antibiotics may inhibit bacterial growth or may kill bacteria by inhibiting cell wall synthesis or protein synthesis. The amount of endotoxin released during antibiotic action has been found to be clinically important. Nine antibiotics, representing seven classes, were studied for the amounts of endotoxin released during their action on susceptible strains of Escherichia coli, Klebsiella pneumoniae, Enterobacter cloacae, and Pseudomonas aeruginosa. Staphylococcus aureus, which produces no endotoxin, was used as a control organism. Aztreonam induced the highest release of endotoxin, whereas other antibiotics such as imipenem and the quinolones induced the lowest release of endotoxin. Although the quantities of endotoxin released are not easily explained from the established mechanisms of antibiotic action, our findings may have implications for therapy of the acutely ill, septic patient in whom release of large quantities of endotoxin may be catastrophic.a

Another study showing coconut oil increasing blood endotoxin in pigs. I have seen similar
studies with human. It is the immediate result of antibiotic action. In long term use coconut
oil should lower endotoxin by lowering number of bacteria.

Dietary oil composition differentially modulates intestinal endotoxin transport and postprandial endotoxemia.
Mani V1, Hollis JH, Gabler NK.
Author information

Abstract

BACKGROUND:
Intestinal derived endotoxin and the subsequent endotoxemia can be considered major predisposing factors for diseases such as atherosclerosis, sepsis, obesity and diabetes. Dietary fat has been shown to increase postprandial endotoxemia. Therefore, the aim of this study was to assess the effects of different dietary oils on intestinal endotoxin transport and postprandial endotoxemia using swine as a model. We hypothesized that oils rich in saturated fatty acids (SFA) would augment, while oils rich in n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) would attenuate intestinal endotoxin transport and circulating concentrations.

METHODS:
Postprandial endotoxemia was measured in twenty four pigs following a porridge meal made with either water (Control), fish oil (FO), vegetable oil (VO) or coconut oil (CO). Blood was collected at 0, 1, 2, 3 and 5 hours postprandial and measured for endotoxin. Furthermore, ex vivo ileum endotoxin transport was assessed using modified Ussing chambers and intestines were treated with either no oil or 12.5% (v/v) VO, FO, cod liver oil (CLO), CO or olive oil (OO). Ex vivo mucosal to serosal endotoxin transport permeability (Papp) was then measured by the addition of fluorescent labeled-lipopolysaccharide.

RESULTS:
Postprandial serum endotoxin concentrations were increased after a meal rich in saturated fatty acids and decreased with higher n-3 PUFA intake. Compared to the no oil control, fish oil and CLO which are rich in n-3 fatty acids reduced ex vivo endotoxin Papp by 50% (P < 0.05). Contrarily, saturated fatty acids increased the Papp by 60% (P = 0.008). Olive and vegetable oils did not alter intestinal endotoxin Papp.

CONCLUSION:
Overall, these results indicate that saturated and n-3 PUFA differentially regulate intestinal epithelial endotoxin transport. This may be associated with fatty acid regulation of intestinal membrane lipid raft mediated permeability.

I am trying to understand this study on oils ....PUFA and even fish oil cause less endotoxins ?

 

[kaybb]

Yes, but I also understand carrot to adsorb and remove endotoxin. This is also a well-accepted function of activated charcoal.

I've often wondered about AC also having an antiseptic effect (ie, also killing microbes and thus releasing endotoxin). And carrot all the more so. Both seem to have a rebound effect.

However, if this is the case, you would expect it to taper off, which it hadn't after 6 weeks. Unless the microbes are reproducing as fast as they are being killed. WHich isn't out of the question.

In either event, carrot seemed superior simply for its ability to move things through the digestive tract quickly compared to AC. I've tried both occasionally.

I am reading your thread with much interest. So there aren't any real scientific studies backing up Peats recommendation to eating the carrot salad and it may cause too much endotoxins and histamine. This is good info. I hope you continue to post on your progress and any info you find.

 

[Mauritio]

@managing
Could you make it worked in the end ?

Is it normal to have some sort of estrogen increase first when starting the carrot?
I'm on my second week and I have less morning wood , lower libido and feel more anxious sometimes. All symptoms I would ascribe to excessive estrogen.

Maybe it has detoxing effect overburdening the liver to excrete it, at first? In theory it should have the opposite effect.

It also made me very hypoglycemic so I went down to just a fifth or so of a carrot per day.
It also seems to constipated me .

 

[Michael Mohn]

I've had about 6 weeks to a/b this and it is pretty clear. But I am open to alternate explanations.

Started using the shredded raw carrot thing one to two/day, about 1/2 - 1 cup packed shredded raw carrot. What I've seen is a return of severe allergies and mild asthma which I haven't seen in 20 years. The connection between lowered adrenaline and raised histamine is well-established.

Please help me understand and establish a strategy. I want the benefits I've observed w/ carrot, but I also want not to keep experiencing allergies and asthma.

Lowering chronic adrenaline seems to be overall desirable I think. The vasoconstricting action of adrenaline opposes the vasodilating effect of histamine. So does caffeine and nicotine. A lot of asthmatics find vaping/smoking and caffeinated soft drinks help them. I don't want to promote smoking but just make the point that there might be compounds that can fill in for adrenaline. Peat said that one freshly shredded, medium sized carrot is enough, more is not better and might provoke the intestinal lining. Lowering histamine is the other strategy. I tried to deplete histidine the precursor of histamine with beta alanine but I struggle to take higher doses. I would like to see it work in other people maybe. High dose of bicarbonate should block histamine releasing cells like basophiles/ mast cells. Farnesol can lower IgE which is eleveted in allergies and inflammatory processes. Ultimately avoiding triggers of allergies is what helps me the most. Intense sunlight in summer helps a lot. Supplementing vitamin D not so much.