(Addictive) Digital Entertainment Consumption - Is The Problem Overstimulation, Or Understimulation?

[Collden]

It's often assumed that spending too much time passively consuming digital entertainment will lead to both physical and mental ill health, the reason often cited being that stuff like internet browsing, tv-show binging or video gaming is too stimulating. That is to say its unhealthy is because these activities stimulate too much dopamine release and thus “burn out” your system and makes you addicted and unmotivated to pursue more wholesome activities such as exercising, meditating or social networking.

But is the problem with digital entertainment and other forms of easy passive entertainment really that they are _too_ stimulating? Peat has mentioned the importance of enough proper stimulation for good health and he seems to think the “dopamine hypothesis” proposed by nofappers and others about why excessive screen time activities are detrimental to mental health is wrong. When I look at people around me it seems that the healthiest ones actually tend to live the most stimulating lifestyles, filling their lives as much as possible with fun and exciting activities, such as sports, games, adventures, parties, music, etc. I mean, doing an actual dirt bike race or exploring the unknown in real life has got to be far more stimulating in every possible sense than doing the same sitting in front of a tv screen.

Could the problem with video games, tv shows, porn or internet browsing rather be that they are _understimulating_ since they only partially engage your senses and your brain knows its fake compared to the real thing and thus spending too much time in front of a screen actually causes a stimulation _deficit_ by displacing real-life equivalent activities that are far more stimulating? Could it be video games and tv shows are simply not exciting _enough_ to achieve a healthy level of stimulation - which is why many people turn to them, because they cannot handle the excitement of real life. If this is true, as virtual reality games become better at engaging all your senses and give you a far more exciting and stimulating experience than presently possible with video games, they should also become better at providing stimulation that is physiologically and mentally beneficial.

Or are there other aspects that determine whether an activity provides beneficial or harmful stimulation? I just find the debate about the dangers of addictive behaviours a little strange because it singles out certain behaviours that stimulate your dopamine system (such as gambling or porn viewing) as unhealthy, and ignores other behaviours (such as travelling, meeting a new partner, working on a project you are passionate about, finding novel "fun stuff" to do ) that I would argue are far more stimulating. I mean, the neurochemical effects of dating a novel partner has been compared to that of taking crack cocaine. Yet no one would argue that engaging in these highly stimulating activities will make you a depressed burn-out, rather the more people engage in such activities the healthier and more motivated they seem to be.

It would also suggest that people who try to solve problems caused by too much screen time by adopting an a ascetic "monk mode" lifestyle, removing activities they enjoy and replacing them with meditation, boring exercise and disciplined self-improvement activities, may be misguided, rather they should be aiming to add _more_ fun and stimulating activities into their lives.

 

[X3CyO]

I think its just an easy way of feeling in control of your life subconciously. like controlling ones diet. So long as someones health is compromised for whatever reason, theyll look towards the easy relaxing options to give the body a rest and heal.

Tv and information are psychological drugs in this sense. Taking action requires structure and energy to be aligned.


I think that most people with these issues have gastrointestinal damage and or endotoxin, but convince themselves its a hormonal or more complicated problem than it is (myself once included starting at a young age), and like the idea of being able to become better at things without expending any real energy. It makes sense from a survival perspective, but with technology, we dont have any mechanisms to break away.

Also doing stuff in general is a risk. Bigger risks require health.. until it becomes a habit. Then id guess you can keep up the momentum with pooper health.

 

[smith]

I think its just an easy way of feeling in control of your life subconciously. like controlling ones diet

Sometimes I wonder if that's why people have pets

 

[lvysaur]

Combination of things.

Overstimulation (of dopamine reward pathway) plays a role. Sedentariness also plays a role. And finally, social isolation (cyber socializing is not the same) also plays a role.

 

[DaveFoster]

Modernity isn't exciting. It's isolating, atomizing and mundane.

 

[LUH 3417]

I see what you’re saying but people can argue that dating new people or traveling new places is an addictive distraction from “real life” responsibilities.
I had a friend who constantly moved place to place. His therapist told him he had a problem committing to things and accepting adult challenges.

 

[Herbie]

I see what you’re saying but people can argue that dating new people or traveling new places is an addictive distraction from “real life” responsibilities.
I had a friend who constantly moved place to place. His therapist told him he had a problem committing to things and accepting adult challenges.

Its interesting the therapist said he had a problem accepting adult challenges, moving place to place is very challenging and only those who have done it will know. On the other hand I think it takes great courage to go to the same job day in day out, live in the same place year in year out with the same people decade in decade out.

 

[LUH 3417]

Its interesting the therapist said he had a problem accepting adult challenges, moving place to place is very challenging and only those who have done it will know. On the other hand I think it takes great courage to go to the same job day in day out, live in the same place year in year out with the same people decade in decade out.

Well he kind of lived with friends and never secured stable employment. He would just bounce around for a few months until he could find a new place to hang out. I’m sure it was difficult but probably not as difficult as trying to get an apartment and job in a new city. I think committing to anything is incredibly difficult too.

 

[Herbie]

I think a problem with experiencing life through a brightly lit screen is that the person is always observing and not engaged as with face to face with real people and this could be something to do with the health problems.

I recently started a job where I interact with the general public 12 hours a day and always traveling and now I find film and shows and the news and the internet extremely boring, it’s no replacement for real human interaction.

The only two things which stay with me is music and reading books preferably and this forum from time to time.

I lived with a guy who had developed manic bipolar and insomnia and would stay up all night playing online games and yelling about the games all night, and sleep poorly in the day, he was extremely engaged in that fantasy world, he was a complete wreck, unemployed, no relationships and it was very difficult to communicate with him in anyway and he would make everyone feel uneasy around him, I told him about no fap, he tried it and said he enjoyed porn and master bating too much, he didn’t understand that once broken away from the porn cycle, it no longer stimulates and becomes dull and sickly. he had this haunted, deathly body odor which lingered around his room into the hall way.
One time he woke up at 7am and was going on about how good he felt after 13 hours sleep, he thought it was 7pm at night. He was exited about the improvements for virtual reality.

To rienforce how important relationships and face to face contact is. I drive high up banking guys from the airport to 5 star hotels and big business’s and what they discuss on the way is how will they best communicate with the individuals they are going to meet with, it’s men stratergising social dynamics for the best outcome for both parties. If all this tech was so great why would they fly men all over the world in business class, 5 star hotels and large salaries if they could just go on skype to get the job done, they can’t because humans face to face is paramount.

 

[Herbie]

Well he kind of lived with friends and never secured stable employment. He would just bounce around for a few months until he could find a new place to hang out. I’m sure it was difficult but probably not as difficult as trying to get an apartment and job in a new city. I think committing to anything is incredibly difficult too.

It makes sense in that context, I wonder if he would move hoping to find a place to settle but each time it not being right or working out.

I just moved to a new city got a full time job and apartment for myself, it wasn’t difficult but living in the share house for a few months with the riff raff in order to get the job and apartment was extremely challenging.

 

[Collden]

I see what you’re saying but people can argue that dating new people or traveling new places is an addictive distraction from “real life” responsibilities.
I had a friend who constantly moved place to place. His therapist told him he had a problem committing to things and accepting adult challenges.

Apologies for rambling scatter-brained post

At first I was gonna say that is a philosophical question, his therapist sounds like she has a fixed idea about what a person is supposed to do, but who's to say what is the meaning of life? We've moved far beyond survival as a society and everyone must figure out for themselves what purpose to live for. If you can be healthy and happy just chasing novel experiences your whole life, why not do that?

Then I found this comment about the problems of frequent travelling:


An old vagabond in his 60s told me about it over a beer in Central America, goes something like this: The more places you see, the more things you see that appeal to you, but no one place has them all. In fact, each place has a smaller and smaller percentage of the things you love, the more things you see. It drives you, even subconsciously, to keep looking, for a place not that’s perfect (we all know there’s no Shangri-La), but just for a place that’s “just right for you.” But the curse is that the odds of finding “just right” get smaller, not larger, the more you experience. So you keep looking even more, but it always gets worse the more you see. This is Part A of the Curse.

Part B is relationships. The more you travel, the more numerous and profoundly varied the relationships you will have. But the more people you meet, the more diffused your time is with any of them. Since all these people can’t travel with you, it becomes more and more difficult to cultivate long term relationships the more you travel. Yet you keep traveling, and keep meeting amazing people, so it feels fulfilling, but eventually, you miss them all, and many have all but forgotten who you are. And then you make up for it by staying put somewhere long enough to develop roots and cultivate stronger relationships, but these people will never know what you know or see what you’ve seen, and you will always feel a tinge of loneliness, and you will want to tell your stories just a little bit more than they will want to hear them. The reason this is part of the Curse is that it gets worse the more you travel, yet travel seems to be a cure for a while.

None of this is to suggest that one should ever reduce travel. It’s just a warning to young Travelers, to expect, as part of the price, a rich life tinged with a bit of sadness and loneliness, and angst that’s like the same nostalgia everyone feels for special parts of their past, except multiplied by a thousand.
https://onemileatatime.com/curse-traveler/

It sounds a lot like the woes of a porn addict, the more you've experienced the less satisfied you are with life. Though in some sense, dissatisfaction is an essential driver of the human spirit, its what keeps us motivated to go forward and achieve and create and explore, rather than stay still and die. Amish people might be satisfied with their lives, but you're unlikely to see any great creative achievements coming from them.

So addictive behaviours fuel dissatisfaction with life, dissatisfaction fuels the drive to achieve and experience novel things. Having a strong drive to achieve also stimulates the thyroid which rejuvenates the health of the whole organism. Having a strong drive to achieve is the opposite of depression, so in what sense could addictive behaviours lead to depression?

Perhaps depression is not a result of the addiction to novelty itself, but rather a growing internal discord that results from engaging in a behaviour that is not congruent with your internal "higher" goals. Some part of you thinks that what you are doing is bad for you, so you start hating yourself for doing it, start thinking you are lazy or cowardly, this internalised rage causes the depression.

Would explain why some people are perfectly capable of making video gaming or porn viewing a healthy part of their life, its in their attitude, so long there isn't some part of you that feels ashamed or contemptuous of what you're doing, then it will not affect you negatively.

 

[Collden]

I lived with a guy who had developed manic bipolar and insomnia and would stay up all night playing online games and yelling about the games all night, and sleep poorly in the day, he was extremely engaged in that fantasy world, he was a complete wreck, unemployed, no relationships and it was very difficult to communicate with him in anyway and he would make everyone feel uneasy around him, I told him about no fap, he tried it and said he enjoyed porn and master bating too much, he didn’t understand that once broken away from the porn cycle, it no longer stimulates and becomes dull and sickly. he had this haunted, deathly body odor which lingered around his room into the hall way.

Ye, if nothing else, real interactions with other people is essential to keep you from slowly drifting into your own little world and becoming increasingly disconnected from the rest of humanity. Though in most cases of computer addiction I think its poor sleep habits that makes people sink deeper into the hole and detach from reality.

 

[LUH 3417]

Apologies for rambling scatter-brained post

At first I was gonna say that is a philosophical question, his therapist sounds like she has a fixed idea about what a person is supposed to do, but who's to say what is the meaning of life? We've moved far beyond survival as a society and everyone must figure out for themselves what purpose to live for. If you can be healthy and happy just chasing novel experiences your whole life, why not do that?

Then I found this comment about the problems of frequent travelling:


An old vagabond in his 60s told me about it over a beer in Central America, goes something like this: The more places you see, the more things you see that appeal to you, but no one place has them all. In fact, each place has a smaller and smaller percentage of the things you love, the more things you see. It drives you, even subconsciously, to keep looking, for a place not that’s perfect (we all know there’s no Shangri-La), but just for a place that’s “just right for you.” But the curse is that the odds of finding “just right” get smaller, not larger, the more you experience. So you keep looking even more, but it always gets worse the more you see. This is Part A of the Curse.

Part B is relationships. The more you travel, the more numerous and profoundly varied the relationships you will have. But the more people you meet, the more diffused your time is with any of them. Since all these people can’t travel with you, it becomes more and more difficult to cultivate long term relationships the more you travel. Yet you keep traveling, and keep meeting amazing people, so it feels fulfilling, but eventually, you miss them all, and many have all but forgotten who you are. And then you make up for it by staying put somewhere long enough to develop roots and cultivate stronger relationships, but these people will never know what you know or see what you’ve seen, and you will always feel a tinge of loneliness, and you will want to tell your stories just a little bit more than they will want to hear them. The reason this is part of the Curse is that it gets worse the more you travel, yet travel seems to be a cure for a while.

None of this is to suggest that one should ever reduce travel. It’s just a warning to young Travelers, to expect, as part of the price, a rich life tinged with a bit of sadness and loneliness, and angst that’s like the same nostalgia everyone feels for special parts of their past, except multiplied by a thousand.
https://onemileatatime.com/curse-traveler/

It sounds a lot like the woes of a porn addict, the more you've experienced the less satisfied you are with life. Though in some sense, dissatisfaction is an essential driver of the human spirit, its what keeps us motivated to go forward and achieve and create and explore, rather than stay still and die. Amish people might be satisfied with their lives, but you're unlikely to see any great creative achievements coming from them.

So addictive behaviours fuel dissatisfaction with life, dissatisfaction fuels the drive to achieve and experience novel things. Having a strong drive to achieve also stimulates the thyroid which rejuvenates the health of the whole organism. Having a strong drive to achieve is the opposite of depression, so in what sense could addictive behaviours lead to depression?

Perhaps depression is not a result of the addiction to novelty itself, but rather a growing internal discord that results from engaging in a behaviour that is not congruent with your internal goals. Some part of you thinks that what you are doing is bad for you, so you start hating yourself for doing it, start thinking you are lazy or cowardly, this internalised rage causes the depression.

Would explain why some people are perfectly capable of making video gaming or porn viewing a healthy part of their life, its in their attitude, so long there isn't some part of you that feels ashamed or contemptuous of what you're doing, then it will not affect you negatively.

It’s true, maybe the therapist was making value judgements based on her own perceptions of what reality is, or maybe the therapist also needed to positively reinforce her own life decisions. It’s also possible that he revealed some longing to her that related to stability despite his drive for exploration and adventure. It’s like you say, what is right for someone can be therapeutic, but if they pursue things without a sense of self awareness it can be destructive. This person was an artist and I believe had some notion of what that meant, to be a sort of traveling vagabond taking in and recreating experiences as art.

I think there’s a general sense in the modern era to be fluid, for the individual to be adaptable and capable of taking on many roles. This leads to a sort of schizophrenia, and I think the ideal of the artist reproduced this type of lifestyle. I have a few friends like this and they are prone to bouts of madness or substance addiction or abusive relationships. Not categorizing every creative soul as being tortured, but it’s definitely something that is romanticized and venerated. And the traveling lust for life type fits in with that. I had been thinking a lot lately about satisfaction without necessarily taking on huge endevours and new pursuits constantly. Not withdrawing into a pseudo spiritual somnolensence, but realizing there is a time for action and a time for rest, and the constant pursuit of movement can be exhausting. Just some philosophical musings on a cloudy Saturday morning.