haidut

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The topic of acne has come up many times on this forum and appears to be anything but solved. While the pubertal and late teen acne is relatively well understood and often responds quite well to antibiotics or hormonal therapy, acne at an older age is much less understood. The predominant view is that adult acne is still drive by androgen excess, a point that has been disputed by Ray in some of his articles. This study seems to support some of Ray's points especially the ones related to elevated estrogen and prolactin as possible causes of acne. It also adds elevated cortisol as a possible cause and found that in adults with acne the levels of androgens such as testosterone and DHEA/DHEA-S are actually often lower than normal. The study reaches the conclusion that adult acne that reappears after treatment is often a sign of a systemic disease and it should be viewed as a sign of this systemic disease rather than being localized disease itself.

https://www.spandidos-publications.com/10.3892/mmr.2016.5924

"... In conclusion, refractory acne can be the first sign of systemic illness including polycystic ovary syndrome. Thus, for a correct therapeutic approach it is necessary to interpret the clinical and biochemical elements in correlation with the medical history."

"...The persistence of acne in adulthood or its late onset (in women > 25 years) suggests an endocrine cause due to hyperandrogenism (5). Although the most common cause of hyperandrogenism is represented by PCOS, the differential diagnoses with Cushing syndrome, ovarian or adrenal androgen-secreting tumors, acromegaly or with non-endocrine disorders, Apert syndrome, Behcet syndrome and SAHA syndrome (seborrhoea, acne, hirsutism and alopecia) are of importance (6)."

"...In group I, no abnormal levels of prolactin and serum cortisol which could impact the development of acne were documented. By contrast, 2 patients (6.25%) from group II had hyperprolactinemia and 4 patients (12.5%) had hypercortisolism."

"...In our study group, 6 patients without any sign of hyperandrogenism registered high levels of androgens, and 8 patients with obvious clinical signs of hyperandrogenism showed a normal hormonal profile. The results suggest the increase in androgenic hormones cannot by itself explain refractory acne."
 

Orion

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Oct 23, 2015
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Just my experience, but two months now into zero fat PUFA elimination. Daily average is about ~5g, with PUFA coming under 1g. My skin has never looked this good ever, and its still healing. All the points above are exacerbated by stored PUFA. PUFA blocks thyroid, vitamin A, pregnenolone, progesterone, DHEA, increases estrogen, cortisol, adrenaline, prolactin, PTH... Ray's work(interviews and articles) is riddled with this theme over and over again, the cause of aging and degenerative disease, in some people its acne. And I am now seeing the proof, after decades of trying everything under the sun.
 

beta pandemic

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yes my acne was caused by a severe fungal infection after being exposed to house mold/fungus for a year. once i got that under control acne went away, sleep cycle fixed itself and digestion issues vanished.
 

bohogirl

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I continue to struggle with adult acne. I am 27. Possibly one of the worst "diseases".

I wish there was more research on it. There seem to be a lot of people who have the same triggers.

Starch and dairy(butter, cheese, milk) are my triggers (I can tolerate low fat kefir without breaking out but I tried a full fat kefir from a different brand and broke out) My breakouts are mostly jawline and neck. Refined sugar may also be a culprit.

My next experiment is to try skim milk, and then 1% and 2% milk.

I have a whole thread on it and working on implementing all the suggestions.

I would feel much better if I could find "the cure".
 

DaveFoster

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@bohogirl

If milkfat makes it progressively worse with higher percent milk, then it could be estrogen.
 

andy

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Jun 23, 2016
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I am nearly 50 and have noticed I have acne on back of legs and thighs .When I cut off milk (semi-skimmed ) then the acne starts to reduce.Without milk however I get anxiety.I know you guys say pufa is bad but if I have some mackerel (2 small tins in brine ) a week and 1-2 grams of evening primrose oil then skin looks better and more moist.If cut off these oils then skin is dry and more haggard looking.some people have said that when they have cut pufa down to very low levels then skin gets better.For me however this is problematic.I do eat chicken liver twice a week now as chris masterjohn had said that the essential fatty acids are arachidonic acid and DHA.
 

Sinjin

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Nov 25, 2016
Messages
28
I've struggled with this, and for me, high dose topical magesnium has been the only thing that has alleviated the acne.

It was a surprise because I'd taken oral magnesium glycinate, malate and a few sprays of topical magnesium chloride for years but I didn't see noticeable change with skin health until cranking up the topical dose to a tablespoon or two / day. I'm now able to tolerate milk and cheese without breaking out or getting oily skin.

I'd highly recommend it. Ubiquinol is the other thing that's helped in giving me smoother skin too so maybe it is all tied back to mitochondrial health.
 

Orion

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Oct 23, 2015
Messages
829
I've struggled with this, and for me, high dose topical magesnium has been the only thing that has alleviated the acne.

It was a surprise because I'd taken oral magnesium glycinate, malate and a few sprays of topical magnesium chloride for years but I didn't see noticeable change with skin health until cranking up the topical dose to a tablespoon or two / day. I'm now able to tolerate milk and cheese without breaking out or getting oily skin.

I'd highly recommend it. Ubiquinol is the other thing that's helped in giving me smoother skin too so maybe it is all tied back to mitochondrial health.

I think magnesium is necessary to keep calcium out of the cell. RP has said that mag/potassium should be in the cell and sodium/calcium outside. When under stress calcium/sodium moves into the cell, and the cell swells and down regulates metabolic function. When hypothyroid sodium and magnesium are lost easily. So milk without enough magnesium could be the culprit @andy Leafy green broths, OJ, coffee, and topical mag chloride are good sources

Calcium as a cause for acne:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15854043

K2 and C0Q10 would be helpful to direct calcium properly, along with adequate salt and magnesium. There is alot of praise for topical magnesium chloride as the quickest way to get mag levels up, 40 sprays on body per day amount.
 

Agent207

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Jul 3, 2015
Messages
618
May linoleic acid play a role too?

From the book "Acne: Diagnosis and Management"

"The free fatty acid fraction of sebum may be important in inflammation. Possibly an important difference between sebum from acne patients and age-matched controls is that the concentration of linoleic acid, an essential fatty acid, is lower in patients with acne. In fact, there is an inverse relationship between sebum secretion and linoleic acid levels in sebum as endogenous lipid synthesis may dilute this essential fatty acid. The importance of linoleic acid is shown in its ability to suppress neutrophile oxygen metabolism and phagocytosis and stimulate the in vitro proliferation of sebocytes.[14] A deficiency of this essential fatty acid in the follicular epithelium may induce follicular hyperkeratosis and decreased epithelial barrier function, as is characteristic of the essential fatty acid deficiency syndrome."


Also from this paper, Healing fats of the skin: the structural and immunologic roles of the omega-6 and omega-3 fatty acids. - PubMed - NCBI

"Linoleic acid (18:2omega6) and alpha-linolenic acid (18:3omega3) represent the parent fats of the two main classes of polyunsaturated fatty acids: the omega-6 (n-6) and the omega-3 (n-3) fatty acids, respectively. Linoleic acid and alpha-linolenic acid both give rise to other long-chain fatty acid derivatives, including gamma-linolenic acid and arachidonic acid (omega-6 fatty acids) and docosahexaenoic acid and eicosapentaenoic acid (omega-3 fatty acids). These fatty acids are showing promise as safe adjunctive treatments for many skin disorders, including atopic dermatitis, psoriasis, acne vulgaris, systemic lupus erythematosus, nonmelanoma skin cancer, and melanoma. Their roles are diverse and include maintenance of the stratum corneum permeability barrier, maturation and differentiation of the stratum corneum, formation and secretion of lamellar bodies, inhibition of proinflammatory eicosanoids, elevation of the sunburn threshold, inhibition of proinflammatory cytokines (tumor necrosis factor-alpha, interferon-gamma, and interleukin-12), inhibition of lipoxygenase, promotion of wound healing, and promotion of apoptosis in malignant cells, including melanoma. They fulfill these functions independently and through the modulation of peroxisome proliferator-activated and Toll-like receptors."


Personally as I stated on a skin related thread, my skin went noticeable dryer when I focused on a pufa restricted oriented diet, around 4-5gr day 1 year. Until I woke up from this forced idea of restricting the diet that way, added another 5gr pufa from avocado and olive oil and in just 2 weeks the skin improved with a more hydrated and glowing look.

From wikipedia:
"A diet only deficient in linoleate causes mild skin scaling, hair loss,[7] and poor wound healing in rats.[8] However, achieving a deficiency in linoleic acid is nearly impossible consuming any normal diet and is thus not considered to be of clinical concern."


Look for skin experts and keep the research up.
 
Last edited:

Ras

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The study reaches the conclusion that adult acne that reappears after treatment is often a sign of a systemic disease and it should be viewed as a sign of this systemic disease rather than being localized disease itself.
Sounds like a good description of cancer.
 

sugarbabe

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I quit all caffeine including chocolate and coffee 7 weeks ago and my acne is sooooo much better. I still get spots, but I've had times where I've had NO active spots which hasn't been the case for most of the last 3 yrs.
 

bohogirl

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May 1, 2016
Messages
327
I've struggled with this, and for me, high dose topical magesnium has been the only thing that has alleviated the acne.

It was a surprise because I'd taken oral magnesium glycinate, malate and a few sprays of topical magnesium chloride for years but I didn't see noticeable change with skin health until cranking up the topical dose to a tablespoon or two / day. I'm now able to tolerate milk and cheese without breaking out or getting oily skin.

I'd highly recommend it. Ubiquinol is the other thing that's helped in giving me smoother skin too so maybe it is all tied back to mitochondrial health.

Do you apply directly to acne or elsewhere?
 

haidut

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Sounds like a good description of cancer.

Well, they did not say cancer explicitly. Sometimes, excessive production of DHEA-S could be a sign of adrenal carcinoma, and that issue they do mention. But they also talk about PCOS, Cushing syndrome, etc so it's not all due to cancer.
 

squanch

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May 7, 2014
Messages
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Why is adult acne almost always aggravated by the same foods though: Dairy (cheese seems to be a lot better tolerated than milk and goat/sheep dairy products better than cow), chocolate, gluten and citrus fruit seem to be THE most common "acne foods" on pretty much any acne forum.
Vitamin a and zinc deficiencies are very common too.
 

dfspcc20

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I quit all caffeine including chocolate and coffee 7 weeks ago and my acne is sooooo much better. I still get spots, but I've had times where I've had NO active spots which hasn't been the case for most of the last 3 yrs.

Chocolate and coffee seem to be triggers for me as well, especially instant coffee. I've never really had body acne much until I started drinking coffee every day. Caffeine alone (as in Coke) doesn't seem to have that affect.
 

Ras

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Messages
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Well, they did not say cancer explicitly. Sometimes, excessive production of DHEA-S could be a sign of adrenal carcinoma, and that issue they do mention. But they also talk about PCOS, Cushing syndrome, etc so it's not all due to cancer.
I meant it like this:
"The study reaches the conclusion that [cancer] that reappears after treatment is often a sign of a systemic disease and it should be viewed as a sign of this systemic disease rather than being localized disease itself."
 

ilovethesea

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Feb 9, 2013
Messages
727
I am nearly 50 and have noticed I have acne on back of legs and thighs .When I cut off milk (semi-skimmed ) then the acne starts to reduce.Without milk however I get anxiety.I know you guys say pufa is bad but if I have some mackerel (2 small tins in brine ) a week and 1-2 grams of evening primrose oil then skin looks better and more moist.If cut off these oils then skin is dry and more haggard looking.some people have said that when they have cut pufa down to very low levels then skin gets better.For me however this is problematic.I do eat chicken liver twice a week now as chris masterjohn had said that the essential fatty acids are arachidonic acid and DHA.

Have you experimented with more vitamin A, eg. with a retinyl palmitate supplement? The chicken liver might not have enough A.
 

ilovethesea

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Joined
Feb 9, 2013
Messages
727
May linoleic acid play a role too?

From the book "Acne: Diagnosis and Management"

"The free fatty acid fraction of sebum may be important in inflammation. Possibly an important difference between sebum from acne patients and age-matched controls is that the concentration of linoleic acid, an essential fatty acid, is lower in patients with acne. In fact, there is an inverse relationship between sebum secretion and linoleic acid levels in sebum as endogenous lipid synthesis may dilute this essential fatty acid. The importance of linoleic acid is shown in its ability to suppress neutrophile oxygen metabolism and phagocytosis and stimulate the in vitro proliferation of sebocytes.[14] A deficiency of this essential fatty acid in the follicular epithelium may induce follicular hyperkeratosis and decreased epithelial barrier function, as is characteristic of the essential fatty acid deficiency syndrome."


Also from this paper, Healing fats of the skin: the structural and immunologic roles of the omega-6 and omega-3 fatty acids. - PubMed - NCBI

"Linoleic acid (18:2omega6) and alpha-linolenic acid (18:3omega3) represent the parent fats of the two main classes of polyunsaturated fatty acids: the omega-6 (n-6) and the omega-3 (n-3) fatty acids, respectively. Linoleic acid and alpha-linolenic acid both give rise to other long-chain fatty acid derivatives, including gamma-linolenic acid and arachidonic acid (omega-6 fatty acids) and docosahexaenoic acid and eicosapentaenoic acid (omega-3 fatty acids). These fatty acids are showing promise as safe adjunctive treatments for many skin disorders, including atopic dermatitis, psoriasis, acne vulgaris, systemic lupus erythematosus, nonmelanoma skin cancer, and melanoma. Their roles are diverse and include maintenance of the stratum corneum permeability barrier, maturation and differentiation of the stratum corneum, formation and secretion of lamellar bodies, inhibition of proinflammatory eicosanoids, elevation of the sunburn threshold, inhibition of proinflammatory cytokines (tumor necrosis factor-alpha, interferon-gamma, and interleukin-12), inhibition of lipoxygenase, promotion of wound healing, and promotion of apoptosis in malignant cells, including melanoma. They fulfill these functions independently and through the modulation of peroxisome proliferator-activated and Toll-like receptors."


Personally as I stated on a skin related thread, my skin went noticeable dryer when I focused on a pufa restricted oriented diet, around 4-5gr day 1 year. Until I woke up from this forced idea of restricting the diet that way, added another 5gr pufa from avocado and olive oil and in just 2 weeks the skin improved with a more hydrated and glowing look.

From wikipedia:
"A diet only deficient in linoleate causes mild skin scaling, hair loss,[7] and poor wound healing in rats.[8] However, achieving a deficiency in linoleic acid is nearly impossible consuming any normal diet and is thus not considered to be of clinical concern."


Look for skin experts and keep the research up.

We discussed linoleic acid topically for acne here https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/correcting-linoleic-acid-deficiency-clears-acne.13367/
 

EIRE24

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Joined
Apr 9, 2015
Messages
1,779
I've struggled with this, and for me, high dose topical magesnium has been the only thing that has alleviated the acne.

It was a surprise because I'd taken oral magnesium glycinate, malate and a few sprays of topical magnesium chloride for years but I didn't see noticeable change with skin health until cranking up the topical dose to a tablespoon or two / day. I'm now able to tolerate milk and cheese without breaking out or getting oily skin.

I'd highly recommend it. Ubiquinol is the other thing that's helped in giving me smoother skin too so maybe it is all tied back to mitochondrial health.
What magnesium product do you use on the skin?
 

Sinjin

Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2016
Messages
28
What magnesium product do you use on the skin?

Ancient Minerals magnesium spray, and also Life-Flo magnesium gel which is slightly less irritating. I also use ubiquinol (C0Q10) from Jarrow's Formulas.
 
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