Acetylcholinesterase info (nightshade sensitivity)

InChristAlone

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Since there has been a lot of hype about choline lately, I thought I’d bring back some balance to the topic in talking about excessive acetylcholine. Having choline in the diet doesn’t necessarily cause too much acetylcholine but it is something to be aware of. I found this really interesting website talking about a genetic variant that causes low cholinesterase enzyme called butyrylcholinesterase which accounts for 10-20% of total cholinesterase activity. If acetylcholinesterase is inhibited, butyrylcholinesterase takes over its work. Having this variant can cause cholinesterase inhibitor sensitivity and sensitivity to many esters, chemicals and drugs. But this enzyme can go up and down depending on many things so I think we should all educate ourselves on acetylcholine!

BChE Mangel - mycholinesterase

“By inhibiting AChE, acetylcholine is not broken down, this means a change in the electrical potential and thus changes the permeability of the membranes to sodium and potassium ions. If acetylcholine cannot be broken down quickly, spasms occur and ultimately paralysis of the striated muscles, which can lead to paralysis of the respiratory muscles.”

“In the event of an inhibition, butyrylcholinesterase takes over the tasks of acetylcholinesterase and protects the body against toxins such as nerve gases, pesticides, insecticides, plant toxins, snake venoms, narcotics and much more“

Here are some of the esters it takes care of:
  • -Fragrances
  • -Flavorings in Food and Cosmetics
  • -Fats (glycerol esters)
  • -Cell membrane building blocks (phosphoric acid: ATP (needed by the cell to produce energy) and ADP – which are indispensable in the body for energy metabolism), lecithin
  • -Aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid is an ester)
  • -Dyes
  • -Plastics, plasticizers for plastics, polyethylene terephthalate (PET) in beverage bottles, polyester fiber is the most produced synthetic fiber for cloth, polycarbonate
  • -Detergents and cleaning agents
  • -Solvents
  • -Flame and corrosion retardant primers for painting metals
  • -Chemical warfare agents (phosphoric acid esters such as sarin or tabun)
  • -Explosives (Nitroglycerin, Dynamite)
  • -Vitamin D as a dietary supplement - is commonly made from wool wax (lanolin), which is a mixture of predominantly long-chain ester, diester, and hydroxy-ester.
“The following are inhibitors of the BChE enzyme:

  • -Food cholinesterase inhibitors such as solanine, chaconine, piperidines , huperzine A , quercentin, morroniside, polyphenols – flavonoids (fisetin, galangin, luteolin, apigenin)
  • -Carbamates (insecticides)
  • -Organophosphates (pesticides, nerve gas)
  • -Medicines for poisoning by organophosphates , for epilepsy, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, muscle relaxants such as succinylcholine and mivacurium, cocaine
Symptoms depend on which cholinesterases are inhibited or which receptors on the cells are inhibited. Some typical symptoms are:

  • -Tiredness, general malaise after anesthesia
  • -Allergic reactions up to shortness of breath (anaphylaxis)
  • -Food intolerances , especially potatoes, peppers, tomatoes and the like
  • -Neurological symptoms such as nerve paralysis, tingling and burning, muscle weakness, tremors, spasms, and more
  • -Stiff neck
  • -Risk of Parkinson's after exposure to organophosphates
Side effects of choline overdose include body odor, sweating, and drooling, as well as hypotensive effects. In addition, high doses of choline magnesium trisalicylate have been associated in individual studies with the side effects of mild hepatotoxicity (liver toxicity) as well as tinnitus (ringing in the ears) and pruritus (itching). It is believed that increased choline intake exceeds intestinal absorption capacity and leads to an increased risk of cardiovascular disease, since choline is metabolized in the liver to trimethylamine N-oxide, which promotes atherosclerosis in animals and depression, neurological disorders in humans. In the case of kidney or liver diseases, depression and Parkinson's disease, people already react to the daily maximum amounts with side effects.”

“Solanine is a toxic substance found in nightshades. It is a glycoalkaloid that inhibits cholinesterase (AChE and BChE) and is a potential cause of leaky gut due to its ability to poke holes in cell walls (membranes). Nightshade plants not only contain solanine, potatoes contain many other glycoalkaloids in addition to solanine and chaconine, and tomatoes contain tomatine.

Here is a small list of the most well-known nightshades:

-Tomatoes
-Potatoes
-Paprika
-Red Pepper (Capsicum)
-Chili (Capsaicin)
-Aubergines, aubergines
-Goji berries, Lycium barbarum, wolfberry, wolfberry
-Tomatillo
-Tamarillo
-Melon pear, pepino
-Tobacco
-Deadly Nightshade (Atropa, Belladonna)
-Ashwagandha, Indian ginseng (Withania somnifera)
-Datura (Datura)
-and much more

The name nightshade is attributed to the toxicity of the glycoalkaloids (solanaceous glycoalkaloids (SGAs) contained in the plants, as these lead to nightmares = nightshades.”
Nachtschatten - mycholinesterase

This explains why many have really weird side effects of ashwaganda! They could have this genetic defect and not even know it.

Here’s another website talking about it: Anne Wright - Cholinesterase Inhibitors

“We are constantly exposed to low levels of CIs through the food we eat -- both from the residue of CI pesticides and from the naturally occurring CIs present in the tissues of many vegetables and fruits. In susceptible individuals, normal levels of exposure in the diet can cause health and quality of life problems, though others eating the same diet notice no untoward effects.
I will use the term "Cholinesterase Inhibitor Sensitivity", or CIS for short, to designate those who suffer negative effects when exposed to CIs at levels found in their normal diet, but who would experience a relief of such symptoms if they were to follow a diet which sufficiently reduces their exposure. This term is inclusive of Nightshade Sensitivity since nightshade foods (potato, tomato, eggplant, peppers, and a few others) are the primary source of dietary CI exposure for most people.

The following is a list of symptoms which I have found to be caused or exacerbated by these effects:
  • Voluntary muscle problems: can cause a range of problems including excess muscle tension, decreased agility, muscle cramps, tremors, spasms, muscle weakness, and increased formation of trigger points (positive feedback loops where muscles continue to stay contracted until released by an outside force, such as massage).

  • Involuntary muscle problems: disrupts proper peristalsis in the GI tract leading to motility problems (such as diarrhea), intestinal spasms, and abdominal pain. This can also lead to problems with nutrient absorption and proper maintenance of gut flora due to food not spending the appropriate amount of time at each stage of the GI tract. This may be diagnosed as "irritable bowel syndrome" (IBS), a functional syndrome which covers these types of GI symptoms without reference to the cause. Interestingly, medications prescribed for treating the intestinal spasms and abdominal pain of IBS, such as dicyclomine, work by decreasing the sensitivity of muscarinic acetylcholine receptors.

  • Excessive stress response: increases release of stress chemicals (epinephrine/adrenaline, etc.) and sympathetic nervous system (fight or flight) activation in respose to a given stimulus. This makes life events seem more threatening and harder to cope with. It may also exacerbate problems of addiction: drugs of addiction mostly increase dopamine, which provides short-term relief from these effects.

  • Sleep problems: increases awareness during sleep and vividness of dreams; decreases soundness of sleep. This means that you're more likely to know if anything happens while you're asleep, but less likely to wake up refreshed in the morning. There is even a product containing the CI galanthamine which aims to exploit this effect to cause more vivid dreams. Their claims about the neurochemical mechanisms seem correct. However, they don't mention the down side: less refreshing sleep.

  • Mood/psychiatric problems: increases anxiety (see Excessive stress response above and ref [15]). I believe that sufficiently high ACh/DA ratio can cause many of the same physiological effects seen in depression (irritability, tension, loss of energy, changes in appetite, changes in sleep pattern, etc.). I speculate that the combination of those effects with negative beliefs about their meaning and impact on personal worth can indeed lead to depression. (It's a question of semantics whether those physiological effects in the absence of such beliefs and low mood should be called depression or not. I would say not. I'm not sure anyone else would agree.)

  • Inflammation/arthritis: Sources which address Nightshade Sensitivity mainly focus on arthritis, pain, and inflammation. It is not clear to me the extent to which those effects are directly caused by cholinesterase inhibition versus other properties of nightshade toxicity. However, many people have found that these effects go away when nightshades are eliminated from their diet, and recur if they are reintroduced. Dr. Norman Childers in particular includes many letters describing such experiences in his book, Arthritis-- Childer's Diet That Stops it. Gloria Gilbère and Michael Fowler have also written books describing similar experiences. This indicates to me that arthritis, pain, and inflammation should also be considered as potential effects of CIS even if the mechanisms are less clear.

  • Metabolic instability?: I have found that a sufficiently high ACh/DA ratio can cause effects consistent with low metabolism: slow movement, feeling cold, not feeling hungry, not losing weight despite decreased food consumption. At intermediate levels, it causes the opposite effect: fast movement, feeling warm, increased appetite, not gaining weight despite increased food consumption. These changes seem to happen randomly. I call the former "slow mode" and the latter "fast mode." They look like either moving in and out of depression, bipolar disorder, or changes in thyroid function (depending on the proclivities of the viewer).“

Acetylcholine causes mast cells to degranulate releasing histamine.

Peat says this:
“In inescapable stress, the stress hormones rather than pushing higher and higher on the cortisol and adrenaline direction to excite things run the heart at a faster rate the body shifts when it sees inability to escape it can simply switch gears and turn off that system and turn on the acetylcholine cholinergic system and the confinement inescapable stress which is the extreme of isolation the extreme opposite from enriched environment this turns on the cholinergic dominant system which lowers blood sugar and in consequence lowering the blood sugar activates histamine release. Some of the acetylcholine nerves such as vagus nerve amplified they're influence by releasing histamine which is it's very similar in its effects to acetylcholine so you can think of this kind of inescapable stress as turning on the histamine type of cholinergic action. Andrew: so this is really a kind of death situation this would be going towards death and away from life"

View: https://youtu.be/lVtCaaRjllU


“yeah actually I think that tendency with aging is to have too much, the shock reaction is for over a hundred years now that there's been evidence that over activity of the vagus nerve and the parasympathetic nerve system produces shock that it's a the essential factor in shock and this is the system that acts primarily through acetylcholine producing nitric oxide nitric oxide blocks oxygen metabolism so in shock your blood stays red and full of oxygen the tissue can't use it and that happens with aging heart failure kidney failure dementia all the tissues relatively have a shock-like metabolism that progresses with aging do you think there's any medical benefit or interest in increasing the breakdown of acetylcholine yeah that there are lots of therapeutic uses of things that blocked the over activity of acetylcholine and accelerated its turnover a rich environment increases the enzyme that breaks down acetylcholine so the environmental enrichment then would encourage the breakdown of acetylcholine."

View: https://youtu.be/22For0bfQBQ


"The current and the last 20 years popular medical approach to treating Alzheimer's disease is to try to increase the level of production or persistence of acetylcholine by blocking the enzyme that breaks it down and they've demonstrated basically that it doesn't work and so they need a new fundamental theory but their theory is so mistaken it's hard for them to get off under this new line of drug treatment that's because the acetylcholine it's essential and part of our conscious regulating is needed for memory all kinds of biological processes required just the right amount of acetylcholine but it activates the enzyme that produces nitric oxide and nitric oxide blocks energy production and so the process of excitotoxicity which it made monosodium glutamate notorious because a little too much of that activates the production of a little too much acetylcholine and that makes too much nitric oxide nitric oxide poisons the ability to oxidize glucose to carbon dioxide so we get increases lactic acid and the cell has less energy and is more excited by the acetylcholine so basically as it becomes susceptible to dying in proportion to the overstimulation of acetylcholine."

View: https://youtu.be/WuUZCGsyBUo


So for anyone suffering from strange effects that you can’t pinpoint a direct cause you may want to try eliminating all nightshades, some even have to eliminate some other ones that could be cholinesterase inhibitors. I’m not usually one for elimination diets, but I do advocate for eliminating something that is causing harm. The only way to know is to try it and then add some back in and see how you react. Many find that they love the way they feel off nightshades. A stiff neck can be the first sign you got nightshaded.

I figured out that maybe nightshades were increasing my acetylcholine too much, and maybe even the choline from eggs as I started experiencing extreme anxiety after several months of 3 eggs a day, I can’t tell a direct correlation with dietary choline and many who are sensitive to cholinesterase inhibitors can consume eggs, but I have seen comments saying even dietary choline can cause the symptoms. During that period my dreams were becoming extremely annoyingly vivid. I felt like I couldn’t get enough rest. On cyproheptadine which is anticholinergic my stress is greatly reduced, as I believe my parasympathetic becomes overactive dropping my blood sugar and causing adrenaline responses.
 

youngsinatra

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Very good post!

I am prone to acetylcholine excess, too. I can take something mildly pro-cholinergic for a few days but then I feel completely off — depressed AF, muscle weakness, sleep problems, perfuse sweating and very bad anhedonia.

I am still trying to figure out this thing. I think it is a supersensitivity that is caused by something else as many people don‘t seem to have problems with acetylcholine excess. I texted with @redsun extensively about this. Zinc excess seems to be a big trigger for acetylcholine hypersensitivity.

I think my zinc-induced copper deficiency, leading towards parasympathetic dominance is the major factor.

For me I do the following. First, avoid the things that strongly stimulate acetylcholine/parasympathetic NS. (excess choline, zinc, B1, B5, vitamin E, nicotine…)
Second, ensure you have the co-factors needed for norepinephrine synthesis / sympathetic NS. (bioavailable copper, vitamin C, B6)
 
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InChristAlone

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Very good post!

I am prone to acetylcholine excess, too. I can take something mildly pro-cholinergic for a few days but then I feel completely off — depressed AF, muscle weakness, sleep problems, perfuse sweating and very bad anhedonia.

I am still trying to figure out this thing. I think it is a supersensitivity that is caused by something else as many people don‘t seem to have problems with acetylcholine excess. I texted with @redsun extensively about this. Zinc excess seems to be a big trigger for acetylcholine hypersensitivity.

I think my zinc-induced copper deficiency, leading towards parasympathetic dominance is the major factor.

For me I do the following. First, avoid the things that strongly stimulate acetylcholine/parasympathetic NS. (excess choline, zinc, B1, B5, vitamin E, nicotine…)
Second, ensure you have the co-factors needed for norepinephrine synthesis / sympathetic NS. (bioavailable copper, vitamin C, B6)
Thanks!

Yeah zinc and copper involvement with AChE is not necessarily conclusive. Here is one study: "A dietary control study demonstrated that the reduction in plasma cholinesterase activities observed in zinc deficient rats was not due to reduced food intake. Instantaneous and time-dependent inhibition studies with various chelating agents were subsequently conducted on the activities of various cholinesterase enzymes (eel AChE, recombinant human AChE, horse serum BChE, and rat plasma cholinesterases). Plasma BChE was found to be substantially inhibited by 1,10-phenanthroline, but only mildly by the non-chelating analog, 4,7-phenanthroline, further suggesting that it may be a zinc metalloenzyme. In conclusion, zinc is a physiological modulator of Butyrylcholinesterase."

But this study found this: "Zinc deficiency resulted in the significant increase of blood Ach and 5-HT,and brain 5HT"

And another: "However, the effects of zinc and copper on the AChE activity are little known and sometimes contradictory. The brain enzyme of fish is inhibited by zinc (Suresh et al. 1992) and activated by copper (Romani et al., 2003). The brain AChE of rats may be either decreased (Brocardo et al., 2005) or increased by zinc (Carageorgiou et al., 2005) and increased by cadmium (Carageorgiou et al., 2005)."
"In conclusion, although the simultaneous administration of zinc and copper caused a decrease in the body weight gain, these metals separately did not alter the cerebral and corporal development. Zinc and copper treatment did not change the cerebral AChE activity and zinc and copper contents; whereas in vitro high concentrations of copper decreased the cerebrum and cerebellum AChE activity. Despite the in vitro results, the absence of in vivo effects permits to suggest that copper may be investigated as a possible preventive essential metal to toxic effects of the heavy metals as observed to zinc (Peixoto et al. 2003, 2008; Peixoto and Pereira 2007; Franciscato et al., 2009)"

I still haven't decided on the copper!

But vitamin C has absolutely been helpful for neurotransmitters. I hope others will also see that thiamine is acetylcholine promoting which is great for those with severe brain fog and memory issues, but very unlikely to be helpful for those with an overstimulated brain.
What was the connection with vitamin E and acetylcholine?
What do you think about the nightshade stuff?

I'm really considering this AChE and BChE to be an underlying reason why people are doing very well on a low vitamin A diet which also decreases the highest sources of choline in the diet such as eggs and liver, and reduces plant toxins from things like tomatoes and peppers. All the case studies I've seen on vitamin A toxicity symptoms resolved quite quickly. But a sensitivity to acetylcholine might never go away.
 

youngsinatra

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Yeah, this subject is complex and not black and white. I think it goes much further than just cholinesterase.
There is receptor density and sensitivity, burst duration, nicotinic vs muscarinic acetylcholine, cholinesterase enzyme functioning etc etc.

Zinc increases muscarinic acetylcholine receptor sensitivity and prolongs acetylcholine burst duration.

It creates „supersensitvity“ at pharmacological doses.

I am not too well versed with calculating the HED but 1mg/kg for a rat should not be such a big dose for a human as far as I know.

I think zinc (like magnesium) is also an NMDA antagonist which sometimes leads to umwanted symptoms. NMDA-glutamate-acetylcholine are also interrelated. Quite complex.
 
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InChristAlone

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A comment from the Nightshade Free and Cholinesterase Inhibitor Sensitivity Support Group : "Many react differently. 3 common intolerance symptoms are: 1. Joint pain and muscle/tendon pain and tension (me) 2. Migraines 3. Severe gastrointestinal distress. Some have an allergic reaction and get hives, rash, blisters and even anaphylactic reactions. Some have reported blood pressure issues. People also have fatigue, brain fog and memory issues. I also had muscle fasciculation after exercise (felt like popcorn popping in my quads) and aphasia (couldn’t think of a word or would substitute the wrong word, like telling my kids to put the milk back in the dishwasher). Some have done genetic testing, and certain mutations are associated with nightshade intolerance. Standard allergy tests won’t show anything if you have an intolerance."
 
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InChristAlone

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Another interesting post from the group:
"We haven't chatted much about the gene PON1. It's one of the Cholinesterase Inhibitor sensitivity genes identified by Anne Wright. It's a bio scavenger, like BCHE and helps our bodies detoxify pesticides and is involved in fat metabolism.
I've been reading up on it and it very well could be why some of us suffer with nightshades more than others. I have 2 variants on PON1, and I know some others here do to.
I've mentioned in past posts that high doses of pure Ascorbic Acid, vitamin C, has greatly helped when I get nightshaded. My recovery from getting shaded is much faster with high doses of C (from 14 days down to 1-2). The book I have on Vitamin C states the large doses of C activates the enzymes to detox pesticides, but it didn't say which ones. Now I've found that PON1 enzymes are activated by Vitamin C.
Increasing PON1 might be crucial in handling Nightshades with the BCHE variants. I unknowingly struggled with nightshade pain and my other conditions in my 20's, but it greatly improved in my 30s and got worse in my 40s with my pregnancies. After digging into the available research on PON1, I think I've figured out why I improved in my 30s. I'll post more about that later.
I'm sharing this guys blog because it looks like he spent a lot of time researching PON1 and has linked to a lot of the studies. Plus it's easier to read than the studies. But some of the foods he has listed for increasing PON1, are actually cholinesterase inhibitors like tomato and caffeine. He's also missing COQ10 or Ubiquinol increase PON1.
The one thing I find strange is he states that he couldn't tolerate eggs or blueberries when his Acetylcholine levels were too high, but no mention of Nightshades. But he does mention that after increasing PON1, he wasn't as sensitive to them. Give it a read:
PON1: Increase Longevity And Detox Pesticides with 99+ Ways To Increase Paraoxonase 1 — MyBioHack | Unlock Your Maximus Potential
 
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InChristAlone

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Yeah, this subject is complex and not black and white. I think it goes much further than just cholinesterase.
There is receptor density and sensitivity, burst duration, nicotinic vs muscarinic acetylcholine, cholinesterase enzyme functioning etc etc.

Zinc increases muscarinic acetylcholine receptor sensitivity and prolongs acetylcholine burst duration.

It creates „supersensitvity“ at pharmacological doses.

I am not too well versed with calculating the HED but 1mg/kg for a rat should not be such a big dose for a human as far as I know.

I think zinc (like magnesium) is also an NMDA antagonist which sometimes leads to umwanted symptoms. NMDA-glutamate-acetylcholine are also interrelated. Quite complex.
Yeah it's quite complex. I'm just not going to supplement any metals! Seems too much of a risk of causing imbalances.
 

reality

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This is a good post. I too have discovered problems associated with too much acetylcholine from nightshades and other herbs/supplements

Another interesting post from the group:
"We haven't chatted much about the gene PON1. It's one of the Cholinesterase Inhibitor sensitivity genes identified by Anne Wright. It's a bio scavenger, like BCHE and helps our bodies detoxify pesticides and is involved in fat metabolism.
I've been reading up on it and it very well could be why some of us suffer with nightshades more than others. I have 2 variants on PON1, and I know some others here do to.
I've mentioned in past posts that high doses of pure Ascorbic Acid, vitamin C, has greatly helped when I get nightshaded. My recovery from getting shaded is much faster with high doses of C (from 14 days down to 1-2). The book I have on Vitamin C states the large doses of C activates the enzymes to detox pesticides, but it didn't say which ones. Now I've found that PON1 enzymes are activated by Vitamin C.
Increasing PON1 might be crucial in handling Nightshades with the BCHE variants. I unknowingly struggled with nightshade pain and my other conditions in my 20's, but it greatly improved in my 30s and got worse in my 40s with my pregnancies. After digging into the available research on PON1, I think I've figured out why I improved in my 30s. I'll post more about that later.
I'm sharing this guys blog because it looks like he spent a lot of time researching PON1 and has linked to a lot of the studies. Plus it's easier to read than the studies. But some of the foods he has listed for increasing PON1, are actually cholinesterase inhibitors like tomato and caffeine. He's also missing COQ10 or Ubiquinol increase PON1.
The one thing I find strange is he states that he couldn't tolerate eggs or blueberries when his Acetylcholine levels were too high, but no mention of Nightshades. But he does mention that after increasing PON1, he wasn't as sensitive to them. Give it a read:
PON1: Increase Longevity And Detox Pesticides with 99+ Ways To Increase Paraoxonase 1 — MyBioHack | Unlock Your Maximus Potential

This is also interesting because i just checked and have pon1 gene snp
 
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InChristAlone

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David PS

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I try to practice total avoidance of all of the nightshades. I do not have any genetic tests to prove it one way or another. I eat eggs all the time.

I purchased this book in 2013 and I avoid all the foods (including tobacco) shown on the cover. Here is info on the man who wrote the book on this diet decades ago.
A Word About the Nightshades- Dr. Norman F. Childers, Ph.D.

Three weeks ago, I went to a summer barbecue picnic at a friends house and I ate a sausage (after beer). The sausage must have been seasoned with Paprika (a nightshade) because my fingers started tingling about four days later. That is the typical time delay that it takes for me to experience a reaction to nightshades. The sensation is most intense in my pinkie finger (little finger) on my right hand and it wakes me up during the night.

When I first starting avoiding night shades, after about 3 months of totally eliminating nightshades from my diet all of my tingling disappeared. In the past I would eat nightshades multiple times a day. If it is a nightshade issue, soneone should begin experiencing some relief within about a month.

Elinimating nightshades is not easy, but for me it is effective. As a general rule, I do not eat foods or condiments that list 'spices' or 'natural seasonings' as an ingredient.
 
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InChristAlone

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I try to practice total avoidance of all of the nightshades. I do not have any genetic tests to prove it one way or another. I eat eggs all the time.

I purchased this book in 2013 and I avoid all the foods (including tobacco) shown on the cover. Here is info on the man who wrote the book on this diet decades ago.
A Word About the Nightshades- Dr. Norman F. Childers, Ph.D.

Three weeks ago, I went to a summer barbecue picnic at a friends house and I ate a sausage (after beer). The sausage must have been seasoned with Paprika (a nightshade) because my fingers started tingling about four days later. That is the typical time delay that it takes for me to experience a reaction to nightshades. The sensation is most intense in my pinkie finger (little finger) on my right hand and it wakes me up during the night.

When I first starting avoiding night shades, after about 3 months of totally eliminating nightshades from my diet all of my tingling disappeared. In the past I would eat nightshades multiple times a day. If it is a nightshade issue, soneone should begin experiencing some relief within about a month.

Elinimating nightshades is not easy, but for me it is effective. As a general rule, I do not eat foods or condiments that list 'spices' or 'natural seasonings' as an ingredient.
That's great you were able to see cause and effect. I've talked to a few family members with persistent issues and they refuse to see it might be the tomato sauce they consume on the daily, or the paprika used in everything.

I really think for those with eczema it might be effective to try just eliminating plant toxins. Nightshades being number one priority.
 

David PS

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That's great you were able to see cause and effect. I've talked to a few family members with persistent issues and they refuse to see it might be the tomato sauce they consume on the daily, or the paprika used in everything.
I started restricting my diet in September of 2012. My mother died October of 2012 and I was not fully convinced that nightshades in my diet were my problems at the time. My family thought I was crazy for suggesting that my metabolism had changed and tomatoes and potatoes were then the culprit. I was fully convinced by January 2013 and later purchased the book to more fully understand the impact that nightshades have on some people.
 
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InChristAlone

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I try to practice total avoidance of all of the nightshades. I do not have any genetic tests to prove it one way or another. I eat eggs all the time.

I purchased this book in 2013 and I avoid all the foods (including tobacco) shown on the cover. Here is info on the man who wrote the book on this diet decades ago.
A Word About the Nightshades- Dr. Norman F. Childers, Ph.D.

Three weeks ago, I went to a summer barbecue picnic at a friends house and I ate a sausage (after beer). The sausage must have been seasoned with Paprika (a nightshade) because my fingers started tingling about four days later. That is the typical time delay that it takes for me to experience a reaction to nightshades. The sensation is most intense in my pinkie finger (little finger) on my right hand and it wakes me up during the night.

When I first starting avoiding night shades, after about 3 months of totally eliminating nightshades from my diet all of my tingling disappeared. In the past I would eat nightshades multiple times a day. If it is a nightshade issue, soneone should begin experiencing some relief within about a month.

Elinimating nightshades is not easy, but for me it is effective. As a general rule, I do not eat foods or condiments that list 'spices' or 'natural seasonings' as an ingredient.
So it appears I am sensitive to at least chili peppers, cayenne peppers and paprika and possibly tomatoes and potatoes. I hadn't been eating any nightshades for at least a few weeks. I've been having a lot in the last few days in comparison and I'm dealing numbness and tingling in my hands and feet. I think this wasn't an issue while I was off of them. This was a problem for me for a number of yrs and I didn't know what was causing it. I had no signs of a possible B12 deficiency or diabetes or anything. I also get a painful stiff back of my neck.
 

artist

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Very interesting stuff! I have been looking into acetylcholine excess as a source of dysautonomia and depression for myself. I have a very overactive mind, and a very slow heart rate. I get serious mood swings from basically any polyphenol supplement, namely quercetin (meant to be such a godsend for histamine issues). I do react badly to many nightshades, especially tomatoes, which do give me joint pain alongside a million other issues. I will look into what nutrient issues might impact acetylcholinease activity.
 

reality

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Very interesting stuff! I have been looking into acetylcholine excess as a source of dysautonomia and depression for myself. I have a very overactive mind, and a very slow heart rate. I get serious mood swings from basically any polyphenol supplement, namely quercetin (meant to be such a godsend for histamine issues). I do react badly to many nightshades, especially tomatoes, which do give me joint pain alongside a million other issues. I will look into what nutrient issues might impact acetylcholinease activity.

You could have a mutation in your COMT gene which metabolises neurotransmitters and estrogens, and quercetin (along with other polyphenols) inhibit this enzyme even more
 

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So it appears I am sensitive to at least chili peppers, cayenne peppers and paprika and possibly tomatoes and potatoes. I hadn't been eating any nightshades for at least a few weeks. I've been having a lot in the last few days in comparison and I'm dealing numbness and tingling in my hands and feet. I think this wasn't an issue while I was off of them. This was a problem for me for a number of yrs and I didn't know what was causing it. I had no signs of a possible B12 deficiency or diabetes or anything. I also get a painful stiff back of my neck.
Most people do not have any issues with the the solanine containing foods (nightshades). My body very gradually lost its ability to deal with solanine when I was in my 50's. I would be surprised if it turrns out that you can eat some solanine containing foods if you have an issue with solanine. The front cover of Norman Childers book advises people to "avoid these rigidly --" (see image).

My brother was a type 2 diabetic. He is a former marine and he attacked his problem by excercise and changing his diet. His diabetes went away but his but his neuropathy did not. A few months after he fully understood the conquences of every word on the front cover image of Childers book and ate accordingly, his so-called 'diabetic' neuropathy vanished.
 

Deadpool

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Most people do not have any issues with the the solanine containing foods (nightshades). My body very gradually lost its ability to deal with solanine when I was in my 50's. I would be surprised if it turrns out that you can eat some solanine containing foods if you have an issue with solanine. The front cover of Norman Childers book advises people to "avoid these rigidly --" (see image).

My brother was a type 2 diabetic. He is a former marine and he attacked his problem by excercise and changing his diet. His diabetes went away but his but his neuropathy did not. A few months after he fully understood the conquences of every word on the front cover image of Childers book and ate accordingly, his so-called 'diabetic' neuropathy vanished.
Wow gotta check out that book. This whole thread sparked so many ideas. I seem to have a huge problem with nightshades, especially potatoes. They seem to cause crazy serotonin or maybe rather high acetylcholine symptoms. Thanks.

So would you say eating cholinergic things like eggs will be possible again when you stopped nightshades for a while?
 

David PS

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So would you say eating cholinergic things like eggs will be possible again when you stopped nightshades for a while?
Coincidently, eggs are a staple in my diet.
 

aniciete

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Wow gotta check out that book. This whole thread sparked so many ideas. I seem to have a huge problem with nightshades, especially potatoes. They seem to cause crazy serotonin or maybe rather high acetylcholine symptoms. Thanks.

So would you say eating cholinergic things like eggs will be possible again when you stopped nightshades for a while?
That was the case for me. White potatoes made me feel really off and once I stopped, eggs were tolerated again.
 

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