Above All, Reduce Iron

[Prota]

is 1:1 ideal?
for some reason, not sure if i heard this from peat or roddy, but I thought it was ideal to have a lot more zinc compared to copper, something like 5:1 or 7:1...maybe even higher?

I know for some ratio's aren't a big deal, but it seems impossible to get 7:1 zinc to copper eating 200-250g of beef liver a week. I would probably need 600g+ of oysters to get the ratio back in line.

how important is this ratio?

That was the issue in my question to Mittir.
Thanks!

 

[EIRE24]

I just can't understand how liver and oysters are so highly reccomended with the iron content if above all else we should reduce iron? How many times a week do people on here eat liver and oysters? Both are supposed to be super for acne but I've never had any improvements with them in my diet?

 

[Prota]

I just wanted to show that adding milk improves the ratio.
RDA for zinc : copper = 11 mg: .9 mg = 12:1
Upper tolerable limit for copper 10 mg and zinc 40 mg.
Even with 4 mg of daily copper with 11 mg zinc ratio is Zinc:Copper=11:4= 2.75:1

I have not heard RP talk about Zinc copper ratio, but he talks a lot about
need for copper to replace iron. Another interesting thing he mentioned is
that unlike iron and other heavy metals copper is not accumulated.
In nutrition for women book RP recommended 20-30 mg of zinc and no
mention of copper amount. If we get 20-30 mg zinc then copper ratio
is not a problem. He has changed his recommendation a lot since
writing that book. It is a good idea for someone to ask RP about the ratio.

Add: High Zinc intake can inhibit copper absorption. Here is a quote
on safe ratio that does not affect copper absorption.

"When zinc-to-copper ratios of 2:1, 5:1, and 15:1 were fed to humans,
there were limited effects on copper absorption (August et al., 1989)."

Source: Copper - Dietary Reference Intakes for Vitamin A, Vitamin K, Arsenic, Boron, Chromium, Copper, Iodine, Iron, Manganese, Molybdenum, Nickel, Silicon, Vanadium, and Zinc - NCBI Bookshelf

You are right, matter of iron is much more important and you can certainly achieve a better Cu-Zn balance with some oysters.

Here in Serbia i have no axcess to good quality food, no oysters or ripe fruits...maybe in another thread (i am counting on you)!

Thank you!

 

[Rand56]

What do you do about liver, it's high iron content. Doesn't coffee also bind with copper that is desirable from liver?

+1. Also, does taking steps with extra calcium, coffee, etc..."preferentially" bind iron, or are those measures indiscriminate which will also bind copper, and if so, is a separate copper supplement warranted in this case? I know Peats view on copper is favorable, but if its only done thru food sources, and one take steps to limit the absorption of iron, and copper comes along for the ride, what is one to do? This is all so confusing, and no doubt this has been talked about somewhere on this forum before.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

How many times a week do people on here eat liver and oysters? Both are supposed to be super for acne but I've never had any improvements with them in my diet?

Maybe you have absorption issues? Are you still eating very low fat? Fat soluble nutrients need fat to be absorbed.

 

[mirc12354]

@natedawggh: how much cilantro are you using and from which company?

What do you think about Milk Thistle for iron chelation?

 

[natedawggh]

@natedawggh: how much cilantro are you using and from which company?

What do you think about Milk Thistle for iron chelation?

From the grocer. :) I ate half a bunch per day. You can use dried cilantro but mix it in some liquid like milk to avoid choking.

Milk thistle works fairly well to lower serum iron, but looks ineffective to lower liver and tissue iron. Actually, I think cilantro works in a similar manner, as both take a sustained effort to lower iron. I think they lower serum iron, then stored iron replaces the serum iron, then that's taken out, etc. vitamin A releases iron from the liver and could theoretically be used to increase the amount removed by cilantro if taken concurrently.

 

[mirc12354]

You were using half a of fresh herb then? I am from Europe and don't really have access to it. Would dried herb be OK too? How much woul you advise?

 

[Gl;itch.e]

You were using half a of fresh herb then? I am from Europe and don't really have access to it. Would dried herb be OK too? How much woul you advise?

It's called Coriander outside of the U.S.

 

[Luann]

my journey continues to remind me how important it is to avoid Iron in my diet. I've discovered a few tricks like eating foods high in manganese, using cilantro, as well as citrus away from iron-heavy foods to quickly reduce iron toxicity. It's All About Iron

+1 for manganese! Plus, it's in the "good" spices. The answer to life might just be cinnamon and brown sugar on everything.

 

[Bahaa El wazzan]

[ moderator edit: threads merged ]

Much is made about Iron these days. It's added to flour, cereals, and children's food products. Some brands claim "100%" daily recommended values of Iron. People talk about being anemic, or menstruating, or whatever, as if they "get" Iron. You don't. You have no idea what you're dealing with. Iron causes or contributes to a host of illnesses ranging from acne to cancer. Other vitamins and minerals don't carry the consequences of Iron. If you overdose on magnesium, your body can flush it very quickly and you probably wouldn't even notice. Iron is a bigger beast than you can comprehend, and it is added liberally to fortified foods and supplements, when it is not the same as Iron bound to whole food. Added Iron is nothing more than metal shavings. It is highly toxic. Would you lick a rusty iron beam? Then why are you eating it in your cereals and breads every day? Why are you feeding that to your children?

If we were Hobbits in Middle Earth, Iron would be Sauron. Iron is everywhere. It is the fourth most abundant mineral on our planet. Growing children need some iron, but adults, who have finished growing, need very little, and certainly not the kind of raw metal in "fortified" foods. Iron is highly unstable. It produces free radicals like a messy drunk at a party makes chaos. Iron is a heavy metal, as is arsenic, mercury, cadmium, and lead. To think that Iron is begnin in the diet is to die of it.

There are many compounds in the world which can cause disease, but Iron is by far the main catalyst for nearly every degenerative and infectious disease from which we suffer, especially weight gain and aging. One reason Iron is so toxic is that our bodies have no efficient way of excreting excess, unlike sodium, magnesium, or potassium. If an excess occurs we are doomed to suffer it, rather than balance. The accumulated Iron affects damage while it remains elevated. Reducing Iron will remove excess weight gain, heal cancer, restore hair-loss, stop insomnia, raise energy levels, and extend your lifespan.

Bacteria need Iron even more than we do. When free Iron, like the kind in fortified foods is introduced to the gut it significantly alters our microbiota. Iron causes acne and bloating, by feeding pathogenic bacteria which excrete toxic compounds that destroy the integrity of our tissue. Post-puberty adult hormones increase the absorbtion of Iron, especially the stress hormones, which is why many people tend to break out during bouts of stress. Have you ever had a stomachache after eating pizza or bread? That's not from the good stuff: cheese, tomatoes, or even the pepperoni. It's the Iron in the fortified flour destroying your gut microbiota.

Years ago Iron was added to wheat in an attempt to rectify a population of anemic people in our country. Anyone who eats even one piece of meat a week would get more than enough iron in their diet. The population who suffer from anemia was extremely small, yet our entire wheat supply was fortified, exposing the rest of us to excessive Iron consumption. Anemics are often prescribed extra Iron, but if they already have a diet high in meat or fortified Iron, they are already being exposed to large amounts of Iron, so what good would it do to add more? Not much. Current evidence suggests that anemia is not a lack of Iron exposure, which is the basis for food fortification, but is in fact a deficit of the vitamin Riboflavin, which is involved in the assimilation and transportation of dietary metals. The amount of free Iron added to wheat exceeds by far the maximum safe daily bound-Iron dose, yet rates of anemia remain unchanged since this disasterous experiment started. Instead of admitting that Iron fortification has done nothing to address the issues it was designed to, the FDA has instead repeatedly INCREASED the dosage, like a self-destructive neurotic who clings harder to a mistake rather than correct course.

After I learned about the damage caused by Iron I began a regimen of Iron chelation—the process of using plants and compounds to reduce body Iron levels. I lost 50 lbs and experienced a rapid reduction of my thyroid cancer symptoms, this in spite of blood work which showed Iron levels in the normal rage—and this is one of the reasons that Iron poisoning goes undetected in the general population. Blood levels of Iron remain fairly constant, unless the subject is extremely ill, so even severely elevated levels of body Iron do not show up in a blood test. Excess Iron is largely relegated to fat cells, to sequester it away from vital organs. Iron overload is easy to diagnose, however. Weight gain, dull skin, graying hair, degenerative eye conditions, fatigue, bloating, and stomach/digestive problems are all signs of Iron excess. Severe diseases like Leukemia, Alzheimer's, and Parkinson's all involve elevated levels of iron.

Excessive Iron is easy to acquire, but it is also fairly easy to fix. The key is consistency. The Iron bound in whole food is safer for your body and can be inhibited easily. Reduce meat consumption, and when you do have meat take milk and cheese with it. Proteins in Milk bind to iron. It is nature's defense for infants to prevent bacterial proliferation. Coffee also binds iron. Foods high in manganese, like maple syrup is great because manganese combats iron toxicity (only whole-food manganese). Many plants naturally bind to iron, like whole wheat, tea, and leafy greens. Fruit, vitamin C, and sugar increase the absorption of Iron, so avoid having fruit with meat. Citrus, however, has a compound called Hesperidin which reduces the body stores of Iron. The most important thing, however, is to just avoid fortified foods. No conventional flour, bread, or cereal products. Read labels. Anything which says Iron in the ingredients should be avoided. It's just rusted metal in your food. Don't be afraid of Iron in whole food. As long as you follow these few guidelines your body will even out the levels of Iron within a few weeks. You'll see dramatic reductions in body fat, and feel and look more youthful. For more reading on Iron, I really like this article written by Richard Nikoley: Iron, Food Enrichment, and the Theory of Everything.

IRON REDUCTION PLAN

If you are anemic, take Riboflavin
Eat meat sparingly, always with Dairy or Coffee
High Dairy consumption
Never pair Fruit and Meat
Alcohol increases Iron Absorption
Eat lots of Citrus apart from meat and Iron foods, for the Hesperidin.
Chocolate protects against Iron (avoid chocolates made with soy lecithin, which is toxic!)
Take Cilantro therapeutically, or add to foods
Eat foods high in Manganese, like Maple Syrup and Pineapple
Aspirin helps protect against the cytotoxic effects of Iron—Take Aspirin if you have cancer, obesity, or any age-related illness. Aspirin also chelates Iron.
Some antibiotics like Tetracycline chelate Iron

@natedawggh

 

[dbh25]

I'd add blood donation to the list

 

[Bahaa El wazzan]

I'd add blood donation to the list

@dbh25

Is it bad to give blood once a month ?

 

[dbh25]

In the US you can donate once every 2 months. My ferritin dropped from 260+ to around 30 over 2 years of donations. I am donating 3-4 times per year now, I am going to get ferritin checked before my next donation. So if your ferritin is already optimal, it would be bad to donate.

 

[Bahaa El wazzan]

Woowww amaaazing

I'm in us



So I will start donating ASAP
Should I drink something after donating or... ?

Honestly I'm just asking for the safety @dbh25

 

[dbh25]

Before you donate, get an iron panel with ferritin, you can go too low from donations. You need to find out your levels first.
The blood donation centers give recommendations on eating and stay hydrated, some people feel no effects from donation others feel tired or light-headed.

 

[Bahaa El wazzan]

@dbh25
I was looking to my last blood test

There is no iron or ferritin

 

[Bahaa El wazzan]

I will I will ASAP

Thanks :)

 

[tankasnowgod]

Pretty nice writeup overall, and pretty accurate. I would note that there are anemics that do need more iron, possibly even through supplements, but that many other factors (including most of the B vitamins) should be investigated first. And to that point, dessicated liver would always be a better solution than generic iron supplements (as it's a safer form of iron, and has many of the co-factors needed for hemoglobin.)

I was particularly interested in this quote- "After I learned about the damage caused by Iron I began a regimen of Iron chelation—the process of using plants and compounds to reduce body Iron levels. I lost 50 lbs and experienced a rapid reduction of my thyroid cancer symptoms, this in spite of blood work which showed Iron levels in the normal rage."

That's pretty incredible! I was also able to lose weight after getting de-ironed, but still had to watch food intake and increase activity. I did notice improved mood, energy, and ability to handle carbohydrate, so it certianly had an effect.

Also, where did you find out about riboflavin? I never came across that reading about iron. I've been supplementing riboflavin over the past month, and it seems to have boosted my energy a bit, and also improved my vision.

As for your question on monthly blood donation.... I did donate monthly for about 6 months when I was initially trying to reduce iron. My starting ferritin was 444, and I monitored it to make sure I didn't go too low. Both B complexs and Iron Free Multivitamins helped to keep hemoglobin up while iron stores were falling. I still donate every 2-3 months or so. So people with serious iron overload (ferritin over 1000) will donate blood once or twice a week initially. So the answer to your question is maybe, depending on how iron loaded you are.

 

[sprinter]

So since citrus has something in it that blocks iron, is it good to drink orange juice with say a steak?