Abdominal Fat Is A Phase Folliwing The End Of Calorie Restriction

[Vinny]

Why are younger and younger people getting so- called diabetes? Erratic living. Dr. Natasha Campbell-McBride works with families to resolve their children's eating issues. It is obvious from listening to her that very young children are getting into disordered eating patterns. In the past, parents gave their children a good breakfast to start the day, without fail. The children had a hot lunch at school, without fail, and if you didn't eat it, someone wanted to know why. Or, the parents packed a lunch and sent it with the child, wanting to know if the child ate it when they got home. Every night was family supper, without fail. After school snack and, at least, milk for an in-school snack rounded out the day's food intake. To the extent that families are still living this way, the children are well and protected. A recent trip to Ukraine convinced me of this. I saw many children, zero of whom were overweight. Overweight and diabetes go hand-in-hand because overweight is caused by inconsistent eating and so, often, is so-called diabetes. I know so few children in the United States, anyway, who are eating in the consistent manner described above anymore. Glued to video games, not required by parents to get up and eat breakfast at a consistent time to break the overnight fast early enough, not having consistent meals as a family every night of the week, not being absolutely assured their children are getting a good lunch at school are some of the ways children are harming their metabolisms.

Kelj,

It seems you've done a lot of research and now I`m starting to put some things together. Like, for ex, why our parents (and especially grand parents) were so concerned children ate regularly and sufficiently (I, for ex, didn`t). That makes A LOT of sense. The glued to video games kids is another great point (I watch it every day in my job, it`s beyond horrible).
However, I still struggle to accept, that it all boils down to ....... inconsistent eating and, probably, lack of physical activity.
I`ll bring again the example of those morbidly obese English children and teens that I`ve been dealing with more than a decade. I`m 100% sure they NEVER restricted their eating. Knowing already something about the English way of living, that`s just not seem possible, that they`d limit themselves on food for whatever reason.
But, they`re stagnant, yes. Which, in turn, brings the question to me: if they start to move as much as a normal child should, would they recover?

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

Just my opinion, but I don't think eating anything that one "desires" will do much good. In our deprived society, it's easy to make bad food choices, and there is a big amount of very toxic things. PUFAs inhibit digestion, so even if one is shoving thousands of calories, they won't even digest it well. Restriction is unnecessary if one's parents and friends had good habits, but that isn't the case anymore. If one tries to et as much commercial food as they want, they will end up as inflammed, bloated, moody, sleepless, muscleless, sick people. Ignoring the role of wheat, grains, soy, PUFA and food additives is just reckless

 

[Cirion]

Yeah that's the one part I can't accept either. Eating processed foods always, without a single exception, worsens my health in the long run. Sure they often feel good while eating and right in the moment, but then I regret it afterwards. Every time. Sometimes as soon as 30 minutes after, other times as later as the next morning with severely low temperatures. Just because something feels good in the moment doesn't make it helpful in the long run. This applies to many other things too like alcohol, tobacco, etc...

I absolutely agree that caloric restriction is a great stressor, but I just don't agree that blindly eating any and all foods including the most horrible of processed foods is the answer. Worst of all ones high in fats, worse still the ones high in PUFA. When one is diabetic or pre-diabetic or otherwise has some form of insulin resistance, eating fats with carbs is absolutely not helpful, especially if it is rich in PUFA, but even if it's not. I am finding I have to eat upwards of 90% of my calories from carbs to have normal temperature and pulses, especially waking up. If I eat a lot of fat one day, I can be all but assured my temperatures will drop as much as a full degree the next morning. 80-90% of calories from carbs is the only way for me to almost feel human again, and dropping that to 40% as recommended by an earlier quote in favor of having 45% from fat is a sure-fire way to absolutely devastate your metabolism, that would probably lower my body temperature as far as 97 deg in the morning, possibly even into the 96's, I hate to think.

Here is some data to quantify it from my personal database:
(x-axis is fat intake in grams, y axis is metabolism in %)

This is a 3-day rolling average plot. Pretty obvious that increasing fats directly lowers my metabolism. I've defined 100% as 100% metabolism (98.6F waking temp and 85 BPM pulse).

Data doesn't lie. I believe what I can see with my own eyes.

Just for grins, I did briefly try eating a ton of food that I felt like papa johns pizza but in the long run, it was not helpful, and made me gain more weight on top of suppressing my metabolism further.

Clearly, undereating is not helpful, but so is overeating. There is definitely a sweet spot that the body wants to be at.

The fact is you're either degrading or improving, there's no in-between. If I feel absolutely horrible, low temps low pulses no energy bad mood no libido basically every hypo symptom in the book, that means I'm degrading (Which happened when I ate too much processed foods). If I eat the right foods in the right combination, however, I can tell an improvement has taken place.

 

[Kelj]

Kelj,

It seems you've done a lot of research and now I`m starting to put some things together. Like, for ex, why our parents (and especially grand parents) were so concerned children ate regularly and sufficiently (I, for ex, didn`t). That makes A LOT of sense. The glued to video games kids is another great point (I watch it every day in my job, it`s beyond horrible).
However, I still struggle to accept, that it all boils down to ....... inconsistent eating and, probably, lack of physical activity.
I`ll bring again the example of those morbidly obese English children and teens that I`ve been dealing with more than a decade. I`m 100% sure they NEVER restricted their eating. Knowing already something about the English way of living, that`s just not seem possible, that they`d limit themselves on food for whatever reason.
But, they`re stagnant, yes. Which, in turn, brings the question to me: if they start to move as much as a normal child should, would they recover?

Of course, they should move like a normal child would. In other words, play. I've mentioned this before, though. I am intimately acquainted with how English people eat. I have to really fight to get enough food when I am in England. Are you seeing them when they're on holiday? If so, they may be breaking loose a bit. What I observe, always acknowledging the exceptions, is a culture of food limitation. The Italians and French who are more joyous and generous about food are slimmer and healthier statistically than the English. I have literally seen English people counting out peas to ensure an even division and no one had enough, and an ordinary fryer chicken that was meant to serve fourteen people. Then, if they sometimes have a feast and eat more calories, of course they are going to store extra fat. It is consistency that is needed to ensure the body doesn't store fat. To the extent plenty of food is provided children and everyone else on a consistent basis, is the extent to which they are slim and healthy. As I mentioned, last year in Ukraine, I saw a population regularly eating and slim and seemingly very well, as a rule. When cultures the world over have traditions of family meals and regular snacks like afternoon tea and le gouter, etc., they maintain the consistency the body needs to not instigate an emergency response. Some modern cultures have really lost touch with that. Of course, regrettably, some people are having a financial struggle to put food consistently on the table. This, too, when the food supply is feast or famine, will lead to protective fat storage. We are choosing in many cases, though, to live erratically and feed ourselves erratically because we've lost touch with the life saving necessity of regular food intake and have been made fearful of the calorie by bogus "science".

 

[mrchibbs]

@Vinny

Eating the foods that you like is important. The problem is all the ''comfort food'' that people like is made with veg. oil. That's the main problem with the fat kids, they have suppressed metabolism at an early age, and now many of them are probably been passed on an impaired metabolism state from their parents.

You have to learn to cook the meals you like at home, without PUFAs. Have you ever watched Adam Ragusea's videos on youtube? He has a good video on how to make NY style pizza, and using white dough it would be possible to eat plenty of carbs with zero PUFA. I do it, and it's remarkably easy to make and you can freeze several dough balls, and keep extra sauce and cheese available. If one likes French fries maybe prepare a bunch and put them in the freezer and just pull out and cook what you need. You can buy a small deep fryer and fill it with coconut oil. Add to that organic concentrate fruit juice, and plenty of sugar/honey in the ol' coffee and you could get loads of carbs easily. Some mashed potatoes with butter and milk are also delicious.

@Cirion Thanks for showing your data, it's really insightful!

 

[Kelj]

It's amazing the human race ever made it this far with such a narrow margin for error in just feeding ourselves. Yet, people were without the chronic diseases and slim, too, until .recently. I was unwell when restricting things like wheat, soy, fats, etc. Putting everything on the table and eating what I want is what made me well. Me and a lot of other people. I'm not sure why our food supply should be deemed so awful if we have the money to buy it or the space to grow it. I can buy anything I want to eat. I don't have to buy anything awful. I am well now and it was eating and persisting with it long enough to see all the changes happen toward wellness that helped me get to this place.

 

[mrchibbs]

It's amazing the human race ever made it this far with such a narrow margin for error in just feeding ourselves. Yet, people were without the chronic diseases and slim, too, until .recently. I was unwell when restricting things like wheat, soy, fats, etc. Putting everything on the table and eating what I want is what made me well. Me and a lot of other people. I'm not sure why our food supply should be deemed so awful if we have the money to buy it or the space to grow it. I can buy anything I want to eat. I don't have to buy anything awful. I am well now and it was eating and persisting with it long enough to see all the changes happen toward wellness that helped me get to this place.

That's all well and I agree with the need for food and plenty of it. But Ray Peat and many others have presented pretty clear evidence regarding the impact of PUFAs on the physiology. I don't think it's intelligent to disregard all of that and just eat whatever. There's been widespread changes in quality of life in the modern world since the veg oils were introduced and I don't see why we can't discriminate towards saturated fats. There's nothing ''unsatisfying'' about removing PUFAs. Butter, coconut oil and dairy are staples of the RP perspective and are utterly delicious. Honestly I can't think of a single truly delicious food that isn't ''Peaty''.

 

[CLASH]

Food Challenges — The Eating Disorder Institute

"Food is not a drug and does not have a drug-effect on our bodies or minds -- not sugars, not ultra-processed foods, not fats, not carbohydrates, not any food you can name.

The concept that any type of food is addictive has no good science grounding that statement at all. Some neurological imaging has indicated that we release endocannabinoids when we consume ultra-processed foods, but we release those natural opioids when we eat pretty much anything we enjoy. I explain this fact usually using this example:

Referring to the natural release of endocannabinoids in our system as an addiction (because addictive substances bind to the same receptors) is like saying:

All babies drink some form of milk

Mrs. Jones nextdoor drinks some form of milk

Therefore Mrs. Jones is a baby.

It's called a faulty syllogism: If A=B and B=C then A must also equal C.

Drugs and alcohol are addictive in very specific neuro-chemical ways. They interfere with natural endocannabinoid release and reception. That sex can be classified as an addiction is contested within the neuroscientific communities for good reason—it is likely more biochemically related to OCD than to chemical dependencies that arise from the interference with natural opioid systems."

This information is either outdated, poorly researched or just blatently false. Food has numerous pharmacologic and hormone altering qualities. Soy, wheat, and dairy are known to contain opiate agonist that have measurable pharmacologic effects. The phytoestrogens of soy have measurable effects on estrogen levels in the body. Dairy fat Has been shown in some cases to contain enough hormones to alter young boys hormonal profile. Excess fructose in relation to sucrose from foods like hfcs reliably increases endotoxin concentrations in the portal vein as animals dont absorb fructose well without glucose allowing bacteria to get to it which induces a whole host of metabolic effects that can lead to NAFL, type 2 diabetes, coronary artery disease etc. PUFA directly damages the circulatory system and disrupts lipoprotein production, this directly immunosuppressing the poor soul who eats it in quantity. It also induces lipid peroxidation, inflammatory mediators, enhances the effects of almost every know toxin, especially endotoxin and induces cancers. Reduced iron in fortified foods has numerous negative effects on the intestine and excess iron in general is associated with quite a few diseases. Many fruits increase serotonin in the brain directly, and some fruits have direct pharmacologic effects that are potent enough to induce death (hypoglycin in ackee fruit). Grains and beans contain digestive inhibitors and lectins that can encourage a pathologic bacterial population and strip the protective mucous layer of the intestine allowing for bacterial adherence. Cruciferous vegetables can put you in a myxedema coma. Spinach can induce kidney stones. Bananas can cause constipation, unripe mangoes can cause allergy reactions similar to poison ivy, mussels and other shellfish can concentrate neurotoxins and heavy metals, eggs contain biotin binding enzymes and digestive inhibitors, pineapples contain pharmacologically active proteolytic enzymes as do papayas, etc. Etc.

The eat whatever you want as long as you eat enough until you get better is a fools concept in my opinion. Its why so many people on this forum have digestive issues, are obese, have psychological symptoms etc.

Humans are meant to eat a specific diet, as are all animals. There are specific foods that we evolved with and that are meant to be eaten by us. Our current society is laden with foods counter to this. It is neccesary to eat enough food, that is without a doubt but what food you eat is just as important if not more. This is why many people do well with intermittent fasting, its almost physically better to eat less food everyday and catabolize your own tissues than it is to eat a bunch of sh*t.

As is seen on this forum over and over with all the new people who join, A1 dairy and granulated sugar can be a nightmare. They can eat all the calories they want and restrict PUFA into oblivion but theyll just get fat. People can eat 90% carb diets at around 4500 kcal and create spreadsheets tracking thier pulse and temp, but they can still remain 90lbs overweight @Cirion. People can take every supplement under the sun including 150mcg of t3 @ilikecats (i think i saw you mention this before) but theyre still not in an ideal spot. I think this idea of, “eventually if I keep doing what I’m doing I’ll magically get better, even though I’m fat and tired now” needs to go. In my experience, If in around 2 weeks there isnt a change for the positive whatever your doing isnt working or needs to be adjusted, in most cases.

Also, tracking macros, and what foods you are eating, in my opinion is extremely important for people with health issues. This orthorexia stuff is bull****. If you want to look a certain way, perform a certain way or a feel a certain way it takes work and attention to detail. Thats not to say you shouldnt listen to your own internal guidance, but internal guidance should be added to a process with which you can formulate things empirically to create a system that works for you this is literally “percieve. think. Act”. The phrase isnt “percieve and then act”, specifically for a reason. Perciece and act is what gets people to obesity... Many people get annoyed when people throw around the idea that there is no ray peat diet, but in reality there isnt a ray peat diet. There a principles and then rays interpretation of those principles. If people spent more time reading what the man has actually written as opposed to reading other peoples interpretations on the forum they would see this. Paradoxical to my previous statement here are some principles (before you read these, go read all of ray’s articles):
1) clean gut
2) low pufa
3) adequate protein
4) adequate carbs
5) mineral balance
6) fat soluble vitamins
7) eat to oppose stress hormones i.e. adequate sodium to oppose aldosterone, adequate calcium/ magnesium to oppose pth etc.
8) avoid radiation
9) avoid irritants, dangerous drugs, toxins
10) emphasis on fruit, meat, seafood, eggs, milk, roots and leaves. Avoidance of grains beans, nuts, seeds on the basis of nutrient density, overall digestibility and avoidance of toxins
11) light exposure/ avoidance depending on wavelength
Etc.

Now there are many variations of diets that can come out of that, peat has his versions but others can work as well. Different people have different tolerances, a northern european may do great with dairy, while an african may do great with yams, gotta experiment to figure it out. @olive eats a couple kg’s of sweet potatoes in a day, I cant even eat 1 without getting gas, but I can drink close to half a gallon of sugar a day in the form of juice and eat a decent amount of beef tallow, while staying lean. Both diets are different but both fall, to some extent within peats principles.

The process isnt easy, and experimentation can often suck with many ups and downs, but its neccessary to really learn about yourself and get yourself to a better place, atleast in my experience. Its all part of the process. Idealogy, dogma, and attachment are the main hurdles to progressing, i’d look out for instances where your getting wrapped up in these...

 

[Cirion]

@CLASH

Not too interested in a lengthy debate really but no I haven't gotten my 2 weeks in, so that's why I'm still pushing forward. There is a difference between 2 weeks of tracking data and 2 weeks of actually having 98.6F and 85 BPM pulses each and every day. IT takes a lot more of 2 weeks of tracking to accomplish the latter. Now, if I do accomplish this, and find that I didn't lose weight (I am 100% sure I won't, but if by some chance I did...) then and only then will I abandon this method, but again, I am sure I won't because I already have proven to myself increased metabolism makes you shed weight AND feel better.

There's two things here. There's my theory that fats are optional and then there's my theory that metabolism drives weight loss. The former I'm 90%+ sure of, but the latter I'm virtually 100% sure of. The latter can be correct without the former being correct though, so we're debating two different things.

My definition of 2 weeks doing what I'm doing is this:

2 weeks of 100% metabolism each and every day for 14 days in a row. I haven't yet achieved this. So of course I haven't lost any weight. You can't be at 98.6F and 85BPM for 1 or 2 days every once in a while and lose weight. The more data I get, the closer I get to achieving this. So far, I've only done it a couple days in a row, that's true, so my next goal is 3, then 4, then 5 and so on and so forth until it's every day.

& BTW even if somehow that is accomplished with a high fat diet, that still doesn't change anything. But I don't think high fat works though. I can put up a similar plot for carbohydrates and show that I have never had a SINGLE day (let alone 2-3x in a row that I've accomplished w/ higher carb) where temps and pulses were good with lower carbs. Let alone 2-3x in a row. And it's not just temps/pulses. Literally I feel so bad on higher fat lower carb that I've had to take sick days off work, on more than one occasion, when I've gotten lazy and dropped carb intakes, on top of abysmal (97.7 or lower) temps, heavy bags under my eyes, etc, AND usually lots of weight gain accompanies the higher fat days as well not just all the bad symptoms, low temps. Believe me, I have no marriage to high carbs, if high fat worked I would have done it a long time ago.

All that said I bet if you're not severely overweight that fats are (possibly/probably) helpful, but even so, when I was healthy/lean 2+ year ago, I felt absolutely my best even then on ultra high carb , zero fat diet. In fact, I never felt better in my whole life up until then.

My interest isn't solely losing weight. That's easy and anyone can do it. I am an expert at losing weight using any means necessary, I once got down to 4% bodyfat. Just keep cutting calories until it occurs. But that doesn't improve your metabolism, that just makes it worse. If that was my goal, that's what I would do. Sure I do want to lose weight, but it's a secondary goal, with the primary being fix the metabolism, knowing the secondary goal will follow close behind automatically.

 

[ilikecats]

@CLASH Wow profound insight. You sound like a tool, you’re so confident and smug but you just spent so much time writing out the most cliche lowest common denominator BS that everybody who’s spent a month here knows and you really seem to think it’s insightful. I shouldn’t be taking thyroid because it’s “not ideal” according to this jabroni. Let me notify Ray and all the hundreds of endocrinologists changing peoples lives with T3 of this profound revelation. Like the nice cliche stuff about being “anti dogma” (You’re not). People who think milk and OJ are ideal foods are just cultists following Ray, right?

If you can’t digest milk properly you’re most likely not in great health. I assume that’s why you dont drink it and you just use the opioid effect theory as a scapegoat. Now imagine if I was responding to some thread and I said some people like CLASH (and tagged you) dont drink milk but that's not ideal. Imagine how obnoxious that would be and my statement actually has logic and science behind it. Dont bother responding I probably won't read it. I rarely read the stuff put up on this forum anymore because no one here seems to understands Rays work or just reality in general except maybe haidut. I have only found a few people on here who are actually REALLY putting in a ton of work in experimenting and applying Rays ideas and even then there is a lot of things they could be doing. You have no clue how much work it can take to really reverse significant physiological damage especially when it involves deep seeded epigenetic damage due to a hypothyroid mother and high maternal stress and PUFA intake during pregnancy and being formula fed and that's often ON TOP of a 20 years of being protein deficient and eating tons of PUFA and estrogenic goitergens and extensive endurance excercise while fasting. Some of us are like the third generation in the high PUFA soy diet fed rats (from "particles in context" have you read that?), almost everything is dangerous. You think its all so simple, just ditch the milk or ditch x or y if its not "working for you" (even though it has sound theory behind it being beneficial) and embrace other food options. Most people ditch Rays dietary staples all the time in an effort to heal and its rarely the solution. Lets see you coach Cirion back to health... he's ready and willing, get him to ditch that milk, oh wait he already did. Let me get back to enjoying my perpetual euphoria and 99.8 plus degree body temperature and my ability to actually drink milk (which I worked for). I can sleep sound knowing that Ive reversed multiple medical conditions with my methodologies and Im still improving moving towards higher and higher physiological states.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

It's amazing the human race ever made it this far with such a narrow margin for error in just feeding ourselves. Yet, people were without the chronic diseases and slim, too, until .recently. I was unwell when restricting things like wheat, soy, fats, etc. Putting everything on the table and eating what I want is what made me well. Me and a lot of other people. I'm not sure why our food supply should be deemed so awful if we have the money to buy it or the space to grow it. I can buy anything I want to eat. I don't have to buy anything awful. I am well now and it was eating and persisting with it long enough to see all the changes happen toward wellness that helped me get to this place.

The human race made it this far not without trial and error and acknowledgement of the errors. People weren't "without diseases". In China, there is an area full of cretins, likely because of their diet( beans, soy, low protein, low vitamin A, etc.). The wheat plant used to produce grains with a lot more problematic compounds. People were getting sick because if it, likely because it was destroying their gut. That's why farmers bred these plants to contain less protein, and also refined the grains to avoid making the poor polulation even sicker. Another example is a fisherman Ray talked about who was getting Multiple Sclerosis symptoms due to eating a lot of fish everyday. I've known a lot of people who ate a lot of crappy, PUFA-laden food and they were fat and/or had bad skin, or had no muscle. If one eats a high PUFA-diet, even if they eat 2000 calories per day, they will gain weight and they won't have the hunger or digestive power to even think about consuming 3000 or 4000 calories. As Ray said, it's possible to be under-fed even when eating a lot of food. All you need to do for that to happen is to eat a lot of digestive enzyme inhibitors( PUFA is a very potent one).

 

[brix]

Yes, I hear that a lot, but I adamantly disagree, based upon subjective feelings. The best day I have had in over a year was March 31 where I woke up with 98.6F body temp and 90 BPM pulse rate. I have never, ever, had a good day with a waking body temp of 98F. Not since I've started tracking data at least which I've been doing for 6 months now.

Also, on the weekend when I can sleep in etc I typically have 98.4F+ temp like the July 4 weekend I had 3 days like this in a row. Not 98.6F so not perfect, but I definitely felt a lot better than weekdays where I often am 98F or lower.

I would however agree that the body temp curve is sunisoidal and lowest in the morning. Broda would probably think 98.6F should be the peak body temp and that's where I disagree. When I'm eating well my peak body temp in the day is frequently 99.5F+. So no, 98.6F should be the average, but not the peak. IMO. based upon my experiences.

I’ve been trying to get my body temp up lately. Peak body temp is low 98.1 and I feel like I’m radiating heat. Sweat easily. Is my thermometer faulty or does that seem abnormal?

 

[LUH 3417]

I’ve been trying to get my body temp up lately. Peak body temp is low 98.1 and I feel like I’m radiating heat. Sweat easily. Is my thermometer faulty or does that seem abnormal?

I believe ray has said that Sweating is a sign of the body cooling down so when you feel hot your temp is actually lowering.

 

[Scenes]

I’ve been trying to get my body temp up lately. Peak body temp is low 98.1 and I feel like I’m radiating heat. Sweat easily. Is my thermometer faulty or does that seem abnormal?

Sweating and flushing is a symptom of hypothyroidism and estrogen dominance. I used to sweat at night and flush easily, feeling super hot. Always thought that meant I run hot, but it’s not the case as you’ve noticed for yourself.

 

[Kelj]

And when people ate a lot of rabbit they suffered from "rabbit starvation". And when people ate soybeans they realized they needed to neutralize its toxins by fermenting it and producing tofu, miso and tempeh. And in Latin America the corn growers realized they needed to grind the corn with lime to activate a B vitamin ( not how they thought of it....just observation about health). And farmers did breed less toxins into their plants. And people did experiment.
And the Inuit ate dried fish and seal oil and no fruits and very infrequently something green like lichen.
And the Swiss in the isolated Alps ate cheese, rye bread and veal only rarely.
And some Africans ate a largely vegetarian diet with the addition of insects.
Other Africans ate milk and blood.
Pacific islanders ate mangos and coconuts and many other fruits and pigs and starchy roots.
And all these cultures were healthy eating from the foods available to them. Weston Price's travels showed that.
Humans are omnivores, meant to eat from a wide variety of foods. To the extent the diet is varied, is the extent to which it is robust.
I try to avoid tunnel vision and see the big picture. Context is everything. Ray (whose articles I've read), is a big picture person and the most non-dogmatic scientist I know of. He speaks in comparisons. Sugars are better in many ways than starches, for example. He speaks in contrasts. It's better to eat meat with carbohydrate than meat without carbohydrate, for example. And he speaks in ideals. Orange juice and milk are highly nutritious, emphasize these in the diet, for example.
The fact is, healthy people eat all the foods suspected of being harmful, in one form or another, to some degree or other. What is the big picture?
As Ray says, eat what seems most delicious to you because our bodies can guide us to what we need. Also, just for fun, read through his articles again, and notice how many times he mentions starvation as a cause of anything he's focusing on.
This thread shows orthorexia is real.
Those of us fool enough to have realized it and struggled to overcome food phobia are sipping our cocktails and eating our canapes in the sun with perfect peace of mind.
Never have I said we should eat too much of anything. Just what our body, which knows more than our intellect would have us eat. It has been my experience, that the body will work on itself in the environment of abundance and lead us to eating freely in a manner very much like Ray has been talking about. Let's get out of the weeds.

 

[rei]

When you have an eating disorder your body is completely out of balance. In such a situation when you suddenly start to shovel excess calories in they get deposited in the emergency compartment, the visceral fat. Once you have successfully resumed normal metabolism the capacity to process food improves and the emergency reserves get distributed peripherally.

By not going from anorexic to normal calories in one step this emergency fat gain can probably be prevented and thus recovery sped up. Important aspects are low carb/insulin until sensitivity is restored because especially carbs will be processed into visceral fat under high insulin emergency situations.

 

[CLASH]

@Cirion
Look forward to seeing your results and how your theories play out.

@ilikecats
Your response only helps my point. I hope you are able to continue in a positive direction.

@Kelj
It seems that your definition of orthorexia includes Ray, who doesnt eat starches, grains, beans or most vegetables, limits his fats to mostly hydrogenated coconut oil and butter, and gets a large majority of his calories solely from milk on the basis of calcium to phosphorous ratio, protein, lack if toxins etc.

 

[Ms.Orchid]

When you have an eating disorder your body is completely out of balance. In such a situation when you suddenly start to shovel excess calories in they get deposited in the emergency compartment, the visceral fat. Once you have successfully resumed normal metabolism the capacity to process food improves and the emergency reserves get distributed peripherally.

By not going from anorexic to normal calories in one step this emergency fat gain can probably be prevented and thus recovery sped up. Important aspects are low carb/insulin until sensitivity is restored because especially carbs will be processed into visceral fat under high insulin emergency situations.

Agreed, to a point. I've heard that a number of those recovered from EDs went this route of ratcheting up calorie intake vs going "all in." But I believe that the Minnesota Starvation Experiment showed that it was only once the men ate well above 4000 calories that they were able to heal, and that this included adding a good deal of fat weight at first. So it would seem that either way, at some point the body is going to require large amounts of food and will lay down fat.

 

[rei]

Large amounts of food is one way to achieve the necessary increase in cholesterol&hormones among others. Supplements is another.

 

[brix]

Sweating and flushing is a symptom of hypothyroidism and estrogen dominance. I used to sweat at night and flush easily, feeling super hot. Always thought that meant I run hot, but it’s not the case as you’ve noticed for yourself.

What have you done to improve? I’m taking thyroid now and notice that I feel way warmer. I’ve always sweat more than my peers and now I feel like it’s in overdrive.