I agree metabolism is the most important factor, although even Broda Barnes wouldn't have found anything wrong with a waking temp around 98.0 +/- 2 (97.8-98.2). It's perfectly normal to not be at 98.6 upon waking up. 98.6 is the typical midday temp of a healthy human. 98 is a good number to shoot for as a basal (morning) temperature.
-
By using this site you agree to the terms, rules, and privacy policy.
-
Charlie's Restoration Giveaway #2 (Entire Home EMF Mitigation & Protection Along With Personal Protection) - Click Here To Enter
-
Dear Carnivore Dieters, A Muscle Meat Only Diet is Extremely Healing Because it is a Low "vitamin A" Diet. This is Why it Works so Well...
Rest the rest of this post by clicking here
-
The Forum is transitioning to a subscription-based membership model - Click Here To Read
Click Here if you want to upgrade your account
If you were able to post but cannot do so now, send an email to admin at raypeatforum dot com and include your username and we will fix that right up for you.
Abdominal Fat Is A Phase Folliwing The End Of Calorie Restriction
- Thread starter Kelj
- Start date
I agree metabolism is the most important factor, although even Broda Barnes wouldn't have found anything wrong with a waking temp around 98.0 +/- 2 (97.8-98.2). It's perfectly normal to not be at 98.6 upon waking up. 98.6 is the typical midday temp of a healthy human. 98 is a good number to shoot for as a basal (morning) temperature.
Cirion
Member
Yes, I hear that a lot, but I adamantly disagree, based upon subjective feelings. The best day I have had in over a year was March 31 where I woke up with 98.6F body temp and 90 BPM pulse rate. I have never, ever, had a good day with a waking body temp of 98F. Not since I've started tracking data at least which I've been doing for 6 months now.
Also, on the weekend when I can sleep in etc I typically have 98.4F+ temp like the July 4 weekend I had 3 days like this in a row. Not 98.6F so not perfect, but I definitely felt a lot better than weekdays where I often am 98F or lower.
I would however agree that the body temp curve is sunisoidal and lowest in the morning. Broda would probably think 98.6F should be the peak body temp and that's where I disagree. When I'm eating well my peak body temp in the day is frequently 99.5F+. So no, 98.6F should be the average, but not the peak. IMO. based upon my experiences.
That's fair. I can understand that it can be therapeutic to get to a higher temperature/pulse for a time. Ray has said so before. In your case I believe you want to lose some weight so it might be a very clear reason why you feel better at a higher temperature/rate of metabolism. I do believe than in time it will probably tend to 98.6F. But my point was that someone shouldn't worry if they wake up at 98F everyday. That would be fine, as you've written it's a natural cycle of temperature for it to raise to a peak at midday.
Jib
Member
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2013
- Messages
- 591
Absolutely. I've been out of that job for several years now but it absolutely wreaked havoc on me. Constant sleep deprivation and being in a windowless, fluorescent lit warehouse starting at 6AM, not to mention constantly being yelled at by the boss, who was always angry/abusive no matter what was happening.
As for now: perhaps I should change my workout time. There are some days I feel fine about working out, and other days I don't feel like doing it at all, on a deep level. I should decide whether to delay workouts on those days, or skip them altogether.
That's my one shortcoming here: as a guy, we all want to be lean/muscular, so I figure if I can't be lean I at least want to be muscular and strong. It's only been more recently, maybe the past 5 or 6 months, I've been incorporating workouts at least 4 to 5 days a week. I try to work out in the morning, after some coffee with cream/sugar, and then have breakfast afterwards.
That's one thing I can absolutely improve: either skip days where I'm feeling really off, or wait until I'm feeling better. Forcing myself to work out when I'm feeling awful, especially in a mostly fasted state, can't be helping. There are some days I am feeling ready to go and have a great workout, feel great, and feel great for most of the day. Other days I feel absolutely destroyed, sluggish, depressed, and really fatigued; working out feels impossible but I force myself to do it anyway because I'm so scared of losing whatever muscle mass I've gained.
So I'm not completely detached from aesthetics. Working out feels nowhere near as stressful as my old job did, but perhaps it does in a sense when I'm forcing myself to do it when I don't really feel like it. So maybe I should see if I can eat well enough in the day to feel good enough to work out, and if I don't, skip it. This will be the hardest thing for me, as I've gotten it in my mind now that I need to work out at least 5 days a week minimum, no matter what. At the very least I think I should stop forcing myself to work out when I'm feeling burned out just to "get it out of the way." But the idea that some days I should just not work out is very hard for me to accept. Something I need to work on.
Been stuck at 97F waking temp for a very long time now.
Rafael Lao Wai
Member
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2017
- Messages
- 1,790
I sometimes have those worries too. I used to feel terrified that people would see that I was losing my gains if I didn't workout very regularly and it was a feeling of not being in control/ a feeling of having no other option than to keep exercising. Now I have detached from this viewpoint somewhat. I now haven't even been walking as much as I normally do, because I got a cold a couple of days ago due to stressful family issues and wanted to rest more than usual. I stopped lifting weights for now, because it was making my forearm sore. I decided to focus on my foream and wrist only with light, frequent, concentric exercises with health in mind instead of appearance( although, as they heal, I noticed they are looking better, so it's like, you're not stressing over appearance but also getting results in this area anyway, since everything in the body is related). My arms were very atrophied 2 years ago due to undereating and malnourishment, so I got to keep that in mind. It's already a huge improvement that I can do eveyday life activities normally now, and I'm certainly very grateful for that. That is one of the reasons why it's better not to focus too much on just appearance, since you can unintentionally neglect certain needs and limits that your organs have at the moment and end up doing more damage and go in the opposite direction in your healing journey. I do my forearm exercises everyday, but if for any reason I'm not feeling well or tired, I lie down on my bed and rest instead of exercising. I try very hard to not workout when I don't want to.
Jib
Member
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2013
- Messages
- 591
Today I'm giving eating first a try. Perhaps this alone will make a difference, sending the message to the body that it doesn't need as much reserves as it won't be forced to perform anything intense on an empty stomach. Just a theory, and reminds me of what Ray said about exercise on an empty stomach causing DNA damage or something. I think you're spot on with not working out when you don't want to.
I'm already feeling better today just doing some reading and having a good breakfast. Bowl of grass fed beef with a little cheese, 8 or 9 mandarin oranges, and some coffee. Feels like I will be able to work out later, no problem, whereas when I woke up -- no way. I'm gonna take my shirt off and go soak up some sun in the yard as well. Being in that dark warehouse for 5 years and hardly ever seeing the sun really made me appreciate sunlight way more. When it comes to lying down, I find I get much better results lying down on the grass in the sunlight with as much bare skin exposed as possible. Very restorative.
I was compulsively working out on a near-empty stomach, so while this seems minor, it could be very major. Perhaps a critical factor is how you feel in the moment you workout, and for the duration of the session. Many people, myself included, tend to treat things literally, like "I worked out today," but missing out on the details of how we feel when we do it, which might be critical. Timing in relation to food intake might be critical, within reason.
Personally, I'm going to focus more on things I enjoy doing as well. Exercise is only thing. For reducing stress I think it's important to partake in hobbies and interests and activities that you enjoy on a daily basis. I mean really, every single day.
OP
Kelj
Member
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2019
- Messages
- 299
Here is what is often going on with those of us excessively concerned with the "food out there"...this was me, for sure:
Orthorexia Nervosa I: Women Laughing Alone with Salad
"Physician Steven Bratman coined the term orthorexia: “orth”, meaning right or correct and “orexia” meaning appetite. 2
He identified orthorexia in patients as those who pursue “healthy eating” to a point of thinness and ill health. He distinguishes orthorexia nervosa (ON) from anorexia nervosa (AN) by suggesting that an orthorexic is not pursuing thinness but rather a pure, healthy and natural existence."
"In 1997 Dr. Bratman developed an initial 10-question self quiz as a way to determine the presence of orthorexia in a patient:
- Do you spend more than 3 hours a day thinking about your diet?
- Do you plan your meals several days ahead?
- Is the nutritional value of your meal more important than the pleasure of eating it?
- Has the quality of your life decreased as the quality of your diet has increased?
- Have you become stricter with yourself lately?
- Does your self-esteem get a boost from eating healthily?
- Have you given up foods you used to enjoy in order to eat the ‘right’ foods
- Does your diet make it difficult for you to eat out, distancing you from family and friends?
- Do you feel guilty when you stray from your diet?
- Do you feel at peace with yourself and in total control when you eat healthily? 3"
- You will not eat certain foods under any circumstance despite the fact that you once enjoyed them.
- You weigh your food when preparing your meals.
- You look-up and tally (either mentally or with actual food logs) macronutrients in your foods. If the results are not exact, then you cannot shake the feeling that you have done damage to yourself, or that you risk imminent ill health or disease.
- You equate processed foods, additives, chemical residues, GMO as well as unbalanced micro and macronutrients as dangerous and the cause of disease and ill health (eg. sugars, all processed and packaged foods, sodium, saturated fats).
- You are vegan or a raw-foodist (these choices do not automatically indicate orthorexia, however they are markers alongside the other signs in this list).
- You adhere to diets that are suitable for those with existing disease states believing they have disease prevention capabilities (eg. Paleo-diet, low-fat diets, no-dairy diets, low-carb diets, low-protein diets, etc.).
- You will not go to restaurants if you cannot confirm ingredients, calories and macro and micro nutrient contents of menu items in advance of going there.
- You tend to avoid having meals at other people’s homes because you have no way to measure and identify all of the ingredients, nutrients and caloric value of the food served.
- If you do eat anything that you consider unhealthy, you experience anxiety and you compensate by applying any number of behaviors to try to re-balance yourself: fasting, juicing, cleanses, additional exercise (to sweat out the impurities), supplements purported to detoxify, home-remedy enemas, etc.
- Your mood is dependent on how successful you are at any given point in reaching or failing to reach your nutrient and healthful eating goals."
"orthorexia nervosa might likely be defined as the combined presence of restrictive eating behaviors alongside excessive focus on health as it relates to food."
"Orthorexia in its application within the restrictive eating behaviors spectrum is a distracting totem meant to protect the patient. It is meant to bolster the patient’s health such that she might somehow avoid the damaging consequences of restrictive eating behaviors."
"the negative impacts on self and others are a very strong marker of the presence of orthorexia. Those who pursue healthy eating habits in response to purely sociocultural pressure will regularly modify their food choices to suit others and lessen social tension."
3. S Bratman, D. Knight, Health Food Junkies: Orthorexia Nervosa—Overcoming the Obsession With Healthful Eating, New York, Broadway Books, 2000.
Focusing on measurements, percentages, the possible benefits of biodynamic food when compared to organic food, or the need to increase or decrease certain supplements based on the latest health articles…all create distraction through ritual—the sense that, if applied correctly and perfectly without flaw, both sickness and perhaps even death are avoidable."
One specific concern:
Food Challenges — The Eating Disorder Institute
"Dietary fats are critical in recovery and shooting for 45% percent of your daily intake coming from fats (saturated equally critical) helps with specific healing requirements."
"During starvation your body uses the myelin on your nerves as fuel to make up the energy deficit created by not eating enough to meet all your biological requirements."
"Not only does this de-myelination affect brain function, but it also impacts motor function, the dependable contraction of the heart muscle, etc. etc. It can mimic the symptoms of multiple sclerosis but it is not MS (I have seen patients misdiagnosed with MS who are on the eating disorder spectrum).
De-myelinated nerves due to restriction will be re-myelinated with adequate re-feeding and dietary fats play a critical role in that process.
Under age 25 there is additional first-time myelination that needs to happen in the frontal lobes of the brain. If you starved between the ages of 16-25 then the natural myelination process in that area of the brain did not happen. And yes it happens at whatever time you are finally able to recover fully.
Dietary fats (saturated and unsaturated) are critical for helping your body to re-myelinate all the nerves.
Beyond recovery, dietary fats are critical for maintaining nerve health and supporting reproductive cycles (particularly in women)"
It really boils down to trusting the body to guide us in food decisions and to heal itself and return to a normal state, including its fat deposition. I know it's scary, but objectively examine the science. These articles I'm quoting are referenced to the studies. There are years of experience embodied here, not just mine. I saw the science before I tried it. I kept reassuring myself by rereading the science and the experiences of others. You can see that some vehemently disagree that this is how things are supposed to work. Look at their point of view as well. Of course, nothing can convince me that the science I objectively examined isn't "real". Where I was hungry, I am now satisfied. Where I was sick, I am now well. Where I was anxious, I am now calm. Where I was storing excess weight, I'm now not. If you can convince yourself to try it again, I can only say persist. It's just living and enjoying life, really.
OP
Kelj
Member
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2019
- Messages
- 299
Just to round out the discussion on the many ways we can restrict energy which can lead to the storage of fat to protect us when we stop the restrictive behavior:
Exercise I: As a Way to Restrict? You Bet.
"There is exercising to restrict, restricting to compete and exercising for addictive reasons. These can overlap or not."
"Whether an amateur or elite athlete (and everything in between), the markers of normal exercise involve two critical behaviors:
- Adequate rest. Additional rest when injured to achieve full recovery.
- Taking in adequate energy in correctly timed intervals to stay strong and at peak performance at all times. Any accidental undernourishment is quickly rectified. "
- Salience: does the activity become the most important one in a person’s life? Do they think about it more than anything else? Do they crave it or feel they are suffering without it? As soon as they are not doing the activity are they planning when they can next do the activity? Do they forego other previously pleasant activities in their lives so they can do the activity in question?
- Mood modification: That’s the subjective feeling of the “high”. The feeling of “in the zone” or “meditative” or “calming”, “neutralizing other stresses”.
- Tolerance: Needing to increase the amount and time dedicated to the activity to get the same levels of mood modification.
- Withdrawal Symptoms: Irritability, short-tempered, jumpiness, anxiety when unable to do the activity in question.
- Conflict: Interpersonal issues arising with loved ones and friends as a result of the activity. Family and friends expressing their anxiety, concern or irritation with the person’s focus on the activity. Intrapersonal conflict where the person experiences guilt or anxiety that she is harming herself and others with her focus on the activity.
- Relapse: Attempts to avoid or moderate the involvement in the activity are punctuated with repeated returns to the activity at a quickly restored or even heightened level than before. 6"
"The calmness for the eating disorder spectrum occurs whenever the patient is successfully restricting. All restrictive behaviors are avoidant behaviors developed to try to lower the anxieties triggered by thoughts of weight gain, body image and food intake."
"As anorexia athletica is not just over-exercise, but is undernourishment in relation to exercise levels. It is still fundamentally a harmful eating behavior, and not just harmful exercise levels in isolation of calorie restriction.
Usually your recovery effort will necessitate both re-feeding and complete rest from exercise."
Jib
Member
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2013
- Messages
- 591
@Kelj
Interesting. My strategy has been to have workout sessions that last about an hour, sometimes an hour and a half. The reason they take so long is not because of the volume, but resting time inbetween sets. It varies, but I will rest long enough until I feel really ready to do another set. I never force anything. I also make a pea protein/collagen shake after, with 1 or 2 bananas, 2 cups of OJ, about 12g of collagen and about 28g of pea protein, then miscellaneous stuff like Taurine, cocoa powder, etc. A lot of times I will have this shake alongside a meal, and I'll eat until completely satisfied.
I just finished a workout, and definitely had success waiting until nighttime. I think instead of arbitrarily picking a workout time, if possible, a person should do it when they feel the best. Because of work this can be hard for a lot of people, but nighttime workouts seem better for me. I naturally have way more anxiety, nervousness and emotional instability at night, and working out then seems to buffer this quite a bit. I'll keep this in mind.
I'm thinking that timing can be very relevant for metabolically disturbed people. If I had tried working out earlier in the day today, when I was feeling awful, perhaps that would have created even more awful feelings/cascades of stress hormones. Instead, I'm feeling more relaxed right now, during the time of night where I would normally start panicking and ruminating. I simply felt more energized and better after an entire day of eating good food, having some coffee and an energy drink, and being sedentary. I definitely didn't feel an urge to workout at all, but I did an hour or two ago....so I did.
Each day consists of 4 exercises, and 3-4 sets per exercise, except for Legs; on those days I'm just doing power clean to high bar squats (I don't have a squat rack), and deadlifts. There is not a whole lot of volume, doing anywhere from 4 to 8 repetitions per set.
My Workout Schedule, revised over the past 8 months or so:
Chest/Arm = Ring Chest Flys, Pushups, Dumbbell Curls with Fat Gripz, Ring Dips
Shoulder = Ring Face Pulls, Ring Reverse Flys, Planche Leans, Wide Handstand Pushups
Back = Ring Inverted Rows, Pullups, Skin the Cat, Front Lever
Legs = Power Clean to High Bar Max ROM Squats, Deadlifts/Romanian Deadlifts with Fat Gripz, Calf Raises
The actual time required to perform the exercises is not much, but I need plenty of rest in-between. Doing a 4 day split like this, and having at least one Rest Day a week, sometimes more, gives me plenty, PLENTY of recovery time between workouts for the different muscle groups. There are some overlaps with the exercises but overall my recovery feels pretty good having a few days of recovery from a specific workout before returning to it.
I do feel that building muscle can be very beneficial, although being sedentary and re-feeding after an eating disorder is absolutely priority 1. I simply reached a point where I was eating a lot and gaining weight but my weight finally settled at where it is now: 195lbs, and does not shift much from there no matter how many surplus calories I consume. My body seems to have settled there, and after it was there for a couple years I started working on making my own strength training program.
My results have been modest, but noticeable, but my metabolic health is still clearly in the red zone, so I needed to come up with a strength training program for myself that would give good results, but not wipe me out. It's been working well so far. I do wonder that on the days where I feel I can't work out, if I slipped up the day before, and did not eat enough, or rest enough. I tend to be pretty "ADD" and OCD and sometimes get lost in my mind and do not eat anything for an entire day, something I absolutely need to fix. It's been helping since I keep a "Health Journal" logging my daily food intake/habits/etc.
Good thread! Important for everyone here to take heart. We are in this for the long game. Like "get rich quick" schemes, we're not gonna fall for the illusion. Slow and steady.
My Ninja blender has been a lifesaver...the collagen/pea protein/OJ/banana/cocoa shakes get a lot of nutrients in quickly, and alongside meals can help ensure adequate nutrient/calorie intake even if your appetite is just not there. When I was recovering from anorexia, eating even a single bowl of rice felt impossible, and was something I struggled with for months. Had I tried smoothies back then, maybe I would have recovered faster.
Interesting. My strategy has been to have workout sessions that last about an hour, sometimes an hour and a half. The reason they take so long is not because of the volume, but resting time inbetween sets. It varies, but I will rest long enough until I feel really ready to do another set. I never force anything. I also make a pea protein/collagen shake after, with 1 or 2 bananas, 2 cups of OJ, about 12g of collagen and about 28g of pea protein, then miscellaneous stuff like Taurine, cocoa powder, etc. A lot of times I will have this shake alongside a meal, and I'll eat until completely satisfied.
I just finished a workout, and definitely had success waiting until nighttime. I think instead of arbitrarily picking a workout time, if possible, a person should do it when they feel the best. Because of work this can be hard for a lot of people, but nighttime workouts seem better for me. I naturally have way more anxiety, nervousness and emotional instability at night, and working out then seems to buffer this quite a bit. I'll keep this in mind.
I'm thinking that timing can be very relevant for metabolically disturbed people. If I had tried working out earlier in the day today, when I was feeling awful, perhaps that would have created even more awful feelings/cascades of stress hormones. Instead, I'm feeling more relaxed right now, during the time of night where I would normally start panicking and ruminating. I simply felt more energized and better after an entire day of eating good food, having some coffee and an energy drink, and being sedentary. I definitely didn't feel an urge to workout at all, but I did an hour or two ago....so I did.
Each day consists of 4 exercises, and 3-4 sets per exercise, except for Legs; on those days I'm just doing power clean to high bar squats (I don't have a squat rack), and deadlifts. There is not a whole lot of volume, doing anywhere from 4 to 8 repetitions per set.
My Workout Schedule, revised over the past 8 months or so:
Chest/Arm = Ring Chest Flys, Pushups, Dumbbell Curls with Fat Gripz, Ring Dips
Shoulder = Ring Face Pulls, Ring Reverse Flys, Planche Leans, Wide Handstand Pushups
Back = Ring Inverted Rows, Pullups, Skin the Cat, Front Lever
Legs = Power Clean to High Bar Max ROM Squats, Deadlifts/Romanian Deadlifts with Fat Gripz, Calf Raises
The actual time required to perform the exercises is not much, but I need plenty of rest in-between. Doing a 4 day split like this, and having at least one Rest Day a week, sometimes more, gives me plenty, PLENTY of recovery time between workouts for the different muscle groups. There are some overlaps with the exercises but overall my recovery feels pretty good having a few days of recovery from a specific workout before returning to it.
I do feel that building muscle can be very beneficial, although being sedentary and re-feeding after an eating disorder is absolutely priority 1. I simply reached a point where I was eating a lot and gaining weight but my weight finally settled at where it is now: 195lbs, and does not shift much from there no matter how many surplus calories I consume. My body seems to have settled there, and after it was there for a couple years I started working on making my own strength training program.
My results have been modest, but noticeable, but my metabolic health is still clearly in the red zone, so I needed to come up with a strength training program for myself that would give good results, but not wipe me out. It's been working well so far. I do wonder that on the days where I feel I can't work out, if I slipped up the day before, and did not eat enough, or rest enough. I tend to be pretty "ADD" and OCD and sometimes get lost in my mind and do not eat anything for an entire day, something I absolutely need to fix. It's been helping since I keep a "Health Journal" logging my daily food intake/habits/etc.
Good thread! Important for everyone here to take heart. We are in this for the long game. Like "get rich quick" schemes, we're not gonna fall for the illusion. Slow and steady.
My Ninja blender has been a lifesaver...the collagen/pea protein/OJ/banana/cocoa shakes get a lot of nutrients in quickly, and alongside meals can help ensure adequate nutrient/calorie intake even if your appetite is just not there. When I was recovering from anorexia, eating even a single bowl of rice felt impossible, and was something I struggled with for months. Had I tried smoothies back then, maybe I would have recovered faster.
Ms.Orchid
Member
- Joined
- May 9, 2019
- Messages
- 26
Oh yes, that is me, for sure. . . but wouldn't you say that almost everyone on this forum would say "yes" to at least 4 or 5+ of the above?
I can see how many health concerns could be related to restrictive eating. . . but not all. For instance, isn't the rise of diabetes, even among children, related to poor dietary choices? Why wait until you've got a disease to modify your diet if poor dietary choices were the cause of the disease in the first place? Not being confrontational . . .I really want to know. The idea that making better (informed) food choices = better health is the reason why we're all here, after all.
It's the diseases of old age/affluence that are now beginning to affect even young people that keeps me from going all in on the idea that restrictive eating is the root cause of the prevalence of these diseases. A ten-year-old develops Type 2 diabetes ( or heart disease) because they are overweight because they've been dieting? It seems likely to me that this is a food quality issue, rather than a food quantity issue.
I would LOVE to get to the place where I could just let go of all the health/weight monitoring, and just trust my body. I have not been able to do that for 35 years. But it seems reckless. I can get behind the quantitative (eating to satiety), but can't (yet) abandon the qualitative. Please convince me otherwise!
OP
Kelj
Member
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2019
- Messages
- 299
Yes, I would say that almost everyone on this forum would say yes to at least 4 or 5 of those points. I am fully aware of what that indicates.
Diabetes is a perfect example of a "disease" that even among children is caused by restrictive eating and, yes, by food choice, as well. I'll explain.
If we have understood what Dr. Peat is pointing out here:
Glucose and sucrose for diabetes.
And here:
Glycemia, starch, and sugar in context
we see that hyperglycemia is the body's response to low calorie, intermittent and low carb eating. Some doctors discovered that plenty of sugar was the cure for even type 1 diabetes. Returning to the Eating Disorder Institute for their comments here:
Diabetes Mellitus Type 2, Metformin, Disease Risk and You
"it is very important to note blood glucose levels can be elevated in recovery from an eating disorder and will often resolve of their own accord.2"
"diabetes mellitus type 2 is not a disease— it’s a risk factor for developing disease. That means that not everyone with diabetes type 2 (treated or untreated) will ever develop any disease state that is more strongly correlated with the presence of type 2 than for those who don’t have the condition."
"spontaneous adjustment of aberrant blood glucose and/or insulin levels back to the norm will occur for most as recovery from an eating disorder progresses, then we would be stretching diagnostic frameworks to refer to something transient and self-correcting as equivalent to diabetes mellitus type 2 in its usual presentation in old age."
Why will the adjustment back to normal occur? We, here at the Ray Peat forum are familiar with the Randle cycle.
Randle cycle - Wikipedia
"The Randle cycle, also known as the glucose fatty-acid cycle, is a metabolic process involving the competition of glucose and fatty acids for substrates.[1] It is theorized to play a role in explaining type 2 diabetes and insulin resistance.[2][3]
When fasting, the activation of lipolysis provides fatty acids as the preferred fuel source for respiration. In the liver β-oxidationof fatty acids fulfills the local energy needs and may lead to ketogenesis (creating ketone bodies out of fatty acids.) The ketone bodies are then used to meet the demands of tissues other than the liver. The inhibition of glucose oxidation causes fatty acids and ketone bodies to contribute to a glucose-sparing effect, which is an essential survival mechanism for the brain during times of starvation. This inhibition of glucose oxidation at the level of pyruvate dehydrogenasepreserves pyruvate and lactate, both of which are gluconeogenic precursors.[5]"
Some of the effects of eating too few carbs, not eating often enough to prevent the fatty acids from having to be used for fuel instead of glucose (called fasting) and just eating too few calories so that our body has to turn our own tissues into the vital glucose are:
1. Insulin resistance. Insulin is a factor (8%, according to Ray) in the ability of our cells to obtain glucose. If there is an environment of low glucose availability through low calories, low glucose intake (low carb) and intermittent fasting (missing meals), the body "turns off" the cells sensitivity to insulin to spare the glucose for the most vital organs like the brain. We create this condition by our habits and the choice to restrict carbohydrate.
2. Our blood glucose level is high. Especially in the morning....the "dawn effect". Where is the glucose coming from when we are restricting carbs, especially in the morning after the overnight fast, to give us a high blood sugar reading? From our own tissues. Lowering carbohydrate intake assured this response. The brain cannot allow the dangerous condition our choices are trying to force upon our bodies. Low blood sugar will kill you quickly. The brain, heart and lungs need to stay operational. The brain ensures a steady supply of glucose by using our tissues. This is adaptive and protective for our survival, but if it goes on too long like this, our organs, nerves, bones, joints, everything, suffers from the cannibalism and never being able to "remodel" due to the lack of energy.
3. For the above reason, our bodies suffer damage. The high blood glucose isn't causing the neuropathy, kidney problems, retinopathy, heart disease, etc. These things are seen in conjunction with eachother because the body is being starved. The body is doing the best it can to survive, but there isn't enough energy to keep everything repaired.
Why are younger and younger people getting so- called diabetes? Erratic living. Dr. Natasha Campbell-McBride works with families to resolve their children's eating issues. It is obvious from listening to her that very young children are getting into disordered eating patterns. In the past, parents gave their children a good breakfast to start the day, without fail. The children had a hot lunch at school, without fail, and if you didn't eat it, someone wanted to know why. Or, the parents packed a lunch and sent it with the child, wanting to know if the child ate it when they got home. Every night was family supper, without fail. After school snack and, at least, milk for an in-school snack rounded out the day's food intake. To the extent that families are still living this way, the children are well and protected. A recent trip to Ukraine convinced me of this. I saw many children, zero of whom were overweight. Overweight and diabetes go hand-in-hand because overweight is caused by inconsistent eating and so, often, is so-called diabetes. I know so few children in the United States, anyway, who are eating in the consistent manner described above anymore. Glued to video games, not required by parents to get up and eat breakfast at a consistent time to break the overnight fast early enough, not having consistent meals as a family every night of the week, not being absolutely assured their children are getting a good lunch at school are some of the ways children are harming their metabolisms.
This can all be reversed, however. Stop thinking the real issue to be solved is the blood sugar being elevated. If plenty of carbs and calories are provided on a consistent basis, the brain will adjust the metabolism to use glucose instead of cannibalizing the tissues in time. The blood glucose will regain it's natural responsiveness to our diet
This is an example of a so called disease, which is erroneously thought to result from poor dietary choice, as in too much sugar, too many sodas, too much McDonalds, etc. when it's really a body adaptation to deal with orthorexic concern over sugar and other carbs and making, yes, the bad dietary choice to restrict these and bad habits of caring for our calorie needs and living in an erratic manner.
The poor health caused by orthorexia limiting our food choices and sometimes just accidentally, our caloric intake as we increasingly cut out foods, is fixed by stopping the restriction and retraining our brains to stop being anxious about foods. Eating disorders are anxiety disorders. Many people have gotten completely well by following the direction of their body's desire for food which is what Ray has recommended. He has said the body has various mechanisms for ensuring any deficits are corrected by our food choices. Really, on a daily basis our intellect doesn't know what our body needs. The CNS can direct us, though. So, if your CNS is giving you a strong desire for something and your intellect trained by anxiety is saying no, what will suffer? Your body. And ultimately, the ability of your CNS to direct you. In the beginning of recovery, the intellectual acknowledgement that our restrictions are not working to keep us completely well can instigate us to begin correcting the problem of food anxiety by just eating. Everything. Then our CNS will become a good guide again.
somuch4food
Member
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2018
- Messages
- 1,281
I think it's important to separate craving and addiction. Many processed foods nowadays are created to be addictive. I find I am more prone to addiction when I'm not well fed or under too much stress.
While I still have some reserve about complete unrestricted eating, I have found that ample calories still trumps perfect nutrition. Excess worry about micronutrients and macronutrients will always be detrimental since I find passive thinking is stressful to the body.
While I still have some reserve about complete unrestricted eating, I have found that ample calories still trumps perfect nutrition. Excess worry about micronutrients and macronutrients will always be detrimental since I find passive thinking is stressful to the body.
Recently Danny Roddy and Georgi talked about this on his youtube series, sometimes a suboptimal waking temperature that won't improve is due to out of whack cortisol levels from impaired circadian cycles. Working on waking up closer to dawn and going to bed when it's dark (i.e. before midnight) can help improve the basal temperature. If you were sleep deprived for years and worked in a windowless window with no beneficial light for a long time that might a lingering problem for you. It was for me, as I spent many years working nightshifts at an hospital and it took me a long time before I realized that I'd picked up bad sleeping habits.
That's why things like shellfish and liver and good eggs are so powerful, they are chockfull of micronutrients like zinc and the b vitamins, which takes care of the need to micromanage the diet and as an added benefit, they also help calm the mind chatter as they're really therapeutic.
OP
Kelj
Member
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2019
- Messages
- 299
I agree that calories trump all. Plenty of energy prevents many adaptive physical responses which have long term negative impacts.
My personal experience proved to me that no food is addictive. When I was so regularly restricting, if I did allow myself to have some kind of "junk food" (as I thought of it then), there seemed no end to what I could eat of it. When I allowed myself anything I wanted, I often didn't want any "junk food" at all. I buy things, have a bite or two, then it sits until I throw it away. All while eating abundant calories of other foods, of course.
OP
Kelj
Member
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2019
- Messages
- 299
Food Challenges — The Eating Disorder Institute
"Food is not a drug and does not have a drug-effect on our bodies or minds -- not sugars, not ultra-processed foods, not fats, not carbohydrates, not any food you can name.
The concept that any type of food is addictive has no good science grounding that statement at all. Some neurological imaging has indicated that we release endocannabinoids when we consume ultra-processed foods, but we release those natural opioids when we eat pretty much anything we enjoy. I explain this fact usually using this example:
Referring to the natural release of endocannabinoids in our system as an addiction (because addictive substances bind to the same receptors) is like saying:
All babies drink some form of milk
Mrs. Jones nextdoor drinks some form of milk
Therefore Mrs. Jones is a baby.
It's called a faulty syllogism: If A=B and B=C then A must also equal C.
Drugs and alcohol are addictive in very specific neuro-chemical ways. They interfere with natural endocannabinoid release and reception. That sex can be classified as an addiction is contested within the neuroscientific communities for good reason—it is likely more biochemically related to OCD than to chemical dependencies that arise from the interference with natural opioid systems."
Jib
Member
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2013
- Messages
- 591
Interesting. My sleep schedule has been seriously messed up for almost a year now. Can't fall asleep until anywhere from 5AM to 8AM and wake up anywhere from 11AM to 4PM. It's a mess. Didn't even think about cortisol.
@Kelj
Very interesting information. Reminds me a lot of Matt Stone's work back on 180 Degree Health. That's going way back. Used to be a regular there, and his work was my first introduction to all these concepts as well as Ray Peat. Interesting stuff, seriously.
I'm continuing with my nighttime workouts. I'm not sure what my cortisol rhythm is like, but it seems to be working better to eat throughout the day and then work out later. I've become a big fan of pickles. Sodium seems to be a very powerful tool. Sometimes I will feel shaky and weak and lightheaded and a few pickles/olives will pick me right back up. I used to have Miso broth for the same reason. I wonder if with a low metabolic rate it can be hard for people to hold onto sodium or something? I'm not sure but salty foods, with or without a lot of calories making me feel better, has been pretty consistent.
Definitely ideal with lots of calories, but plenty of times salt alone or with very few calories has pulled me out of major brain fog episodes. And even increased my capacity in working out.
Thanks for sharing all this interesting information, you are very knowledgeable :) Having fun poring through your posts. Lots of info to take in.
OP
Kelj
Member
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2019
- Messages
- 299
Thanks for that!
Salt, energy, metabolic rate, and longevity
"One way of looking at those facts is to see that a lack of sodium slows metabolism, lowers carbon dioxide production, and creates inflammation, stress and degeneration. Rephrasing it, sodium stimulates energy metabolism, increases carbon dioxide production, and protects against inflammation and other maladaptive stress reactions."
You're right!
EMF Mitigation - Flush Niacin - Big 5 Minerals
Similar threads
