A Word Of Caution Against Excessive Protein Intake

[redsun]

The topic of the thread is specifically "a word of caution against protein intake", both examples you posted heavily promote meat, eggs and dairy. The my plate link, click on protein and it specifically says "meat, poultry, seafood.." as the first three recommendations. Lol how is that promoting vegan protein hahaha cmon man. I'm just saying animal agriculture industry has had a big influence on western perspective of the importance of protein and that is specifically in relation to this thread topic.

Both examples I provided are heavily promoting meat, eggs and dairy??? What kind of crack are you on? Animal foods are in there but in significantly lower recommended amounts then plant foods. What is it you do not understand about this? It is so simple to realize the recommendations by governments are based heavily on plants, not animals and here you are defying logic and reasoning telling me the opposite? I knew you would jump through the hoops here but this, this is gold .

I am well aware of the thread topic and you post this:

Where are you getting this mainstream push for vegetarian/vegan? lol Show me any official government body that is pushing that narrative, apart from maybe extremely recent updates for some fringe countries (talking within the last couple of years maybe). If anything there is a strong anti vegan narrative and the mainstream media is well on board with that. The meat, dairy, egg industries are still doing there thing. Yes I eat a plant based diet for the most part. And there is good reason for that.

You are claiming here that governments are not pushing vegetarian/vegan or plant-based eating except very recently and in fringe countries. And I literally had to bring you back into reality to understand that plant-based eating is heavily promoted by most countries evidence by food guidelines. Then you tell me this is about protein intake. Do you not even know what you are writing in your own posts? Do not spout BS about governments not promoting plant-based eating and expect such an obvious load of bull**** not to get corrected.

 

[Homo Consumericus]

The topic of the thread is specifically "a word of caution against protein intake", both examples you posted heavily promote meat, eggs and dairy. The my plate link, click on protein and it specifically says "meat, poultry, seafood.." as the first three recommendations. Lol how is that promoting "vegan protein" hahaha cmon man. And they are pushing dairy and eggs hard as well on that link, a glass of milk with every meal? For every person, think about how much dairy that would equal to supply all that. You gota see this for what it is. I'm not saying they don't recommend carbs from grains and starch etc, I'm just saying animal agriculture industry has had a big influence on western perspective of the importance of protein, still do and that is specifically in relation to this thread topic.

So you look at a link which advocates getting 75% of energy from plants and 25% from protein sources, with possibly a majority of those protein source recommendations being animals-- meaning on a sample 2k calorie diet 1500 cals from plants (plant carbs, plant fat, and plant protein) and 500 cals from protein (animal protein and plant protein) and you think animal industry has a big influence on western perspectives?

What adjective would you use to describe the influence of the industries that provide the >75% (or over 1500 of the 2000 total) of plant calories that are also recommended?

How is high school math taught where you're from? Do they just give you your diploma on the first Monday of September so that you can spend the rest of the year protesting cattle ranchers, even though herds are often relegated to survive on land which is unfit for growing crops, but when they do roam fertile land, through grazing, urinating, and defecating as they perambulate, they perform the most essential function of replenishing dangerously depleted topsoil in the most sustainable way possible?

 

[Ritchie]

Both examples I provided are heavily promoting meat, eggs and dairy??? What kind of crack are you on? Animal foods are in there but in significantly lower recommended amounts then plant foods. What is it you do not understand about this? It is so simple to realize the recommendations by governments are based heavily on plants, not animals and here you are defying logic and reasoning telling me the opposite? I knew you would jump through the hoops here but this, this is gold .

Haha in the "protein" section of the recommendations, yes they heavily promote meat eggs and dairy. Hope that makes it a bit clearer for you as to what i'm saying. Yes i know they promote more carbohydrate than protein, as does Peat. But i'm specifically referring to what they recommend for protein. And look, again, I am saying this in context of the thread. IF our protein requirements are as the study the OP posted (which I'm not saying i'm convinced of but is a real possibility), then the amount of animal protein consumed becomes very problematic because it is very easy to blow out the amount of protein consumed.

You are claiming here that governments are not pushing vegetarian/vegan or plant-based eating except very recently and in fringe countries. And I literally had to bring you back into reality to understand that plant-based eating is heavily promoted by most countries evidence by food guidelines. Then you tell me this is about protein intake. Do you not even know what you are writing in your own posts? Do not spout BS about governments not promoting plant-based eating and expect such an obvious load of bull**** not to get corrected.

You think that because carbohydrate intake is emphasised they are pushing a vegetarian/vegan agenda? That's a bit of a weird position, would be like saying Peat is promoting a vegetarian/vegan agenda because he emphasises plant based sources of food as the majority (fruit, juice, sugar, potatoes, etc).

 

[Ritchie]

So you look at a link which advocates getting 75% of energy from plants and 25% from protein sources, with possibly a majority of those protein source recommendations being animals-- meaning on a sample 2k calorie diet 1500 cals from plants (plant carbs, plant fat, and plant protein) and 500 cals from protein (animal protein and plant protein) and you think animal industry has a big influence on western perspectives?

What adjective would you use to describe the influence of the industries that provide the >75% (or over 1500 of the 2000 total) of plant calories that are also recommended?

How is high school math taught where you're from? Do they just give you your diploma on the first Monday of September so that you can spend the rest of the year protesting cattle ranchers, even though herds are often relegated to survive on land which is unfit for growing crops, but when they do roam fertile land, through grazing, urinating, and defecating as they perambulate, they perform the most essential function of replenishing dangerously depleted topsoil in the most sustainable way possible?

It's a higher carbohydrate to protein ratio recommendation, which is reasonable no? I mean we are on the ray peat forum lol
But in specific relation to protein, yes animals are recommended and the animal ag industry has been and continues to be influential. The plant calories you are referring to are carbohydrates like rice, grains, pasta, breads. Not much money in that. Also under that plant calorie umbrella recommendations are fruit which there is a bit more money in but I don't think the industry need to do much, fruit sells its self and not many argue against fruit consumption (apart from the keto and carnivore peeps lol).

Hahaha you seem a bit triggered bro

 

[redsun]

Haha in the "protein" section of the recommendations, yes they heavily promote meat eggs and dairy. Hope that makes it a bit clearer for you as to what i'm saying. Yes i know they promote more carbohydrate than protein, as does Peat. But i'm specifically referring to what they recommend for protein.

You think that because carbohydrate intake is emphasised they are pushing a vegetarian/vegan agenda?

When the primary food groups emphasized are grains, fruits, and vegetables and the animal food groups are recommended to be very minor parts of the diet most people with a functioning brain would say that is a plant-based agenda that is gearing towards vegetarian/vegan.

No one is going to say the food recommendations promote a diet high in animal foods, except you apparently. Plants are not the only carbohydrate source dairy and honey provide carbs and these are animal foods. The recommendations are not about recommending carbs its about recommending plants. It seems at this point I am better off talking to an actual plant. Better than talking to a wall.

 

[Homo Consumericus]

He knows how to help his clients lead a purposeful life and build big guns.

Well, I can certainly agree that it's questionable whether exercise gives life purpose and recall Dr. Peat's perspective that repetitive loaded movement patterns may be in some way detrimental to the mind, possibly reinforcing learned helplessness. There also exist, you might agree, worse pastimes.

 

[Ritchie]

When the primary food groups emphasized are grains, fruits, and vegetables and the animal food groups are recommended to be very minor parts of the diet most people with a functioning brain would say that is a plant-based agenda that is gearing towards vegetarian/vegan.

No one is going to say the food recommendations promote a diet high in animal foods, except you apparently. Plants are not the only carbohydrate source dairy and honey provide carbs and these are animal foods. The recommendations are not about recommending carbs its about recommending plants. It seems at this point I am better off talking to an actual plant. Better than talking to a wall.

No worries mate. I edited that last reply to you just to clarify a bit more clearly, but we can end the conversation there.

 

[Homo Consumericus]

It's a higher carbohydrate to protein ratio recommendation, which is reasonable no? I mean we are on the ray peat forum lol
But in specific relation to protein, yes animals are recommended and the animal ag industry has been and continues to be influential. The plant calories you are referring to are carbohydrates like rice, grains, pasta, breads. Not much money in that. Also under that plant calorie umbrella recommendations are fruit which there is a bit more money in but I don't think the industry need to do much, fruit sells its self and not many argue against fruit consumption (apart from the keto and carnivore peeps lol).

Hahaha you seem a bit triggered bro

Would be heartwarming if someone with similar powers of reasoning could fry an egg or tie their shoes unassisted.

 

[ExCarniv]

I don't care about questionable papers, in real life, diabetics and obese people common diet is high fat, high carb, low protein.

Every people I know that eats high/moderate protein, high carb, lowish fat and do some kind of sport/lift weights is in good health.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

When the primary food groups emphasized are grains, fruits, and vegetables and the animal food groups are recommended to be very minor parts of the diet most people with a functioning brain would say that is a plant-based agenda that is gearing towards vegetarian/vegan.

No one is going to say the food recommendations promote a diet high in animal foods, except you apparently. Plants are not the only carbohydrate source dairy and honey provide carbs and these are animal foods. The recommendations are not about recommending carbs its about recommending plants. It seems at this point I am better off talking to an actual plant. Better than talking to a wall.

There is a vegan agenda for sure. Not even babies are safe from this, sadly. They are being fed fruits, vegetables and seeds when they should be drinking tons of breast milk and eating grass- fed liver and meat. Health food stores only sell vegan stuff pretty much, from what I've seen.

Plus, the carbs recommended in the food pyramid are mostly starchy. Great way to have endotoxin excess, as well as persorption( because breads and cereal aren't boiled, so the starch isn't gelatinized). Not to mention all the lectins and fiber in beans and bread. Overall, a bad carb source. Not really in line with what Ray advocates.

Not sure, but I came across this and found it interesting:

Urine, Gas in - Kidney and Urinary Tract Disorders - Merck Manuals Consumer Version

In the past, I noticed bubbles when I ate foods that caused bloating or irritated my gut like coconut, avocados and dried fruit so last night I experimented with having some whole fruit. I had some intestinal pain after and went to bed. In the morning I had bloating and cramping in my colon and when I went to pee, there were bubbles.

Thanks. I have pretty much zero gas, but I get bloating when I'm stressed or don't sleep well. Maybe that's why.

What about this?:

High Protein Intake Increases Muscle Mass Even W/o Training
"We know that Ray recommends 80g+ of protein a day and says that ~120g should be enough even for the most active individuals. This study looked at what happens when you increase protein intake even more. There were 2 groups. The "normal" intake group consumed ~120g of protein a day and the high protein group consumed ~210g of protein per day. Both groups ate hypercaloric diets to induce weight gain. The high protein group lost fat mass and built muscle mass WITHOUT doing any training. In addition, their blood lipid parameters were normalized.
I find this interesting, since in my home country doctors often recommend new mothers and sick people consume 200g+ of protein a day as a way of maintaining optimal health since those people usually do not do much exercise. It looks like there is something valid about that recommendation...
Also, since some people on the forum have complained about gaining weight on Ray's diet, this may be an easy way to lose the extra weight - i.e. just up your protein intake even if you don't reduce fat and sugar.

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/early/2 ... 2.abstract"

Nice. Great benefit. Thanks for the link.

 

[meatbag]

Am J Clin Nutr 2000 Jul;72(1):168-73. A threshold for low-protein-diet-induced elevations in parathyroid hormone. Kerstetter JE, Svastisalee CM, Caseria DM, Mitnick ME, Insogna KL. Elevations in PTH developed by day 4 of the diets containing 0.7 and 0.8 g protein/kg but not during the diets containing 0.9 or 1.0 g protein/kg. Our data suggest that in young healthy women consuming a well-balanced diet, the current recommended dietary allowance for protein (0.8 g/kg) results in short-term perturbations in calcium homeostasis.

 

[Literally]

Folks, I haven't read through all this but wanted to post an article that just appeared on T-Nation about protein oxidation. It's heavily footnoted. Thoughts on this?

Red Meat: Not So Good For You... Unless | T Nation

 

[Elie]

instead, you could just use SCI-HUB to access all research papers for free...
link - sci-hub.tw

That site has saved me at least 100k+ (in whatever your local currency is)
I can't believe that ANYONE still pays to access research papers.

Thank you for the tip. It seems to allow access to a couple of papers and then it provides some kind of page in Russian and that is the end of it. Any suggestion? Is there a way to continue access studies?

 

[Literally]

See also LibGen.

 

[Sativa]

Thank you for the tip. It seems to allow access to a couple of papers and then it provides some kind of page in Russian and that is the end of it. Any suggestion? Is there a way to continue access studies?

It's always worked for me.
Sometimes there is a captcha. Sometimes the study cannot be accessed.

 

[Elie]

See also LibGen.

thank you. got it.

 

[FitnessMike]

did anyone notice worsen metabolism from increasing protein? I'm suspecting my sleep went way worse since i have started whey protein, stopped creatine and whey today lets see.

 

[Vanset]

did anyone notice worsen metabolism from increasing protein? I'm suspecting my sleep went way worse since i have started whey protein, stopped creatine and whey today lets see.

How much did you increase your protein with the whey? From how many grams to how many?

 

[FitnessMike]

How much did you increase your protein with the whey? From how many grams to how many?

lets say i added 40 g to my diet whioch wasnt really high in the first place, i suspect now creatine messed up my sleep, and many peoples on Reddit suffered the same...