A Word Of Caution Against Excessive Protein Intake

[Homo Consumericus]

The guy looks like the typical body builder/compulsive protein eater - very hairy arms, probably accompanied by hair loss (hence the cap).



20 grams per meal, 4x daily when you were 11? Was your father a butcher or sausage manufacturer?



Carbohydrate and fat oxidation keep you warm, not protein.



Bro Science at its' best.

- You're best attempt to refute Feigenbaun's recommendations is by criticising his aesthetics and making assumptions about portions of his body you cannot see?

- My grandfather raised hogs actually. Also, great mixing and matching of the specifics in different paragraphs in my post discussing varying life phases to create a strawman (the 20 grams per meal and 4 meals per day had nothing to do with each other). More protein would clear the dense brainfog and improve reading comprehension.

- Hey there potato, how's the couch? Never heard of TEF (the thermic effect of food)? Even alcohol is more thermogenic than carbs and fat.

- I'd heard rumours about Germans and sense of humor which I just didn't want to believe..

 

[Kartoffel]

- You're best attempt to refute Feigenbaun's recommendations is by criticising his aesthetics and making assumptions about portions of his body you cannot see?

I actually looked him up, and he is suffering from hair loss. I am not pointing this out to criticize his aesthetics, it is just a pattern that I have noticed repeatedly in men that start working out and eating excess protein. Many of them suddenly get very hairy and hair starts going. Ridiculous protein recommendations like his are not healthy.

- My grandfather raised hogs actually. Also, great mixing and matching of the specifics in different paragraphs in my post discussing varying life phases to create a strawman (the 20 grams per meal and 4 meals per day had nothing to do with each other). More protein would clear the dense brainfog and improve reading comprehension.

No brainfog here, reading comprehension is fine, too. Actually, it is excess protein that has been shown to cause serious mental malfunctioning in hepatic encephalopathy due to excess ammonia.

- Hey there potato, how's the couch? Never heard of TEF (the thermic effect of food)? Even alcohol is more thermogenic than carbs and fat.

Very comfy, thanks. This effect you mention has nothing to do with the effects on long-term body temperature and thyroid function. Try eating high-protein diet for a while to see how warm you get. Carbohydrates promote thermogenesis, brown-fat activation, uncoupling and thyroid function.

- I'd heard rumours about Germans and sense of humor which I just didn't want to believe..

I'd heard rumors about beefcakes and anger issues which I just didn't want to believe.

 

[boris]

What about this?:

High Protein Intake Increases Muscle Mass Even W/o Training
"We know that Ray recommends 80g+ of protein a day and says that ~120g should be enough even for the most active individuals. This study looked at what happens when you increase protein intake even more. There were 2 groups. The "normal" intake group consumed ~120g of protein a day and the high protein group consumed ~210g of protein per day. Both groups ate hypercaloric diets to induce weight gain. The high protein group lost fat mass and built muscle mass WITHOUT doing any training. In addition, their blood lipid parameters were normalized.
I find this interesting, since in my home country doctors often recommend new mothers and sick people consume 200g+ of protein a day as a way of maintaining optimal health since those people usually do not do much exercise. It looks like there is something valid about that recommendation...
Also, since some people on the forum have complained about gaining weight on Ray's diet, this may be an easy way to lose the extra weight - i.e. just up your protein intake even if you don't reduce fat and sugar.

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/early/2 ... 2.abstract"

 

[Inaut]

Upping protein ingestion with carbs and fat was also what was recommended by Josh Rubin to reduce possibility of fat gain (in recent interview with Matt Blackburn)

 

[Ritchie]

Lol I find it funny that you find it funny. Its clearly not broccoli or lentils, its grains, soy, vegetable oils etc. I would venture to guess that push is larger than the meat or dairy industry, especially considering the dietary guidelines of the US for the past century or so....

But you must understand that the grain, pufa, soy industries are not vegetarian or vegan and certainly aren't at all mutually exclusive to animal agriculture.. In fact more of those products are used to feed animals than to feed humans. Something like 80% plus of all soy grown in the world is fed to livestock and only about 6% of soy is turned into human food, most of it consumed in Asia. The remaining approx 10% is turned into soy oil. Grains is about half to half livestock use to human use I believe and that is shifting more and more toward more going to animal ag (meat consumption is rising btw). PUFA oils i'm not sure the stats but they definitely use a lot of it in feed for livestock to fatten them up etc. Fast food is meat and PUFA oil heavy, I mean the two almost can't be separated in that industry because PUFA oils are the cheapest and most abundant. As far as profit and interest goes, soy is of main interest to the animal ag industry and there are no companies making big bucks off tofu or soy milk lol same goes for grains, most of it is grown in the third world and shipped to the west. PUFA industry i'm not sure about but again it pales in comparison to the money and influence in animal agriculture. PUFA oils are very important to the fast food industry though, as are grains to the cereal industry and companies like kelloggs and so. Do you wonder why there is no big rice influence but you mention grains? That's because 1. it is not fed to livestock and 2. it is not really used in the production of products from big companies like kelloggs.

Almost every regulating health body and much research pushes a plant based mediteranean diet high in PUFA and MUFA, fiber, nuts, seeds, whole grains and vegetables. This push is quite obvious. Red meat and eggs is to be avoided and if protein is taken in, it is to be from vegetarian sources lean white meat and/ or low fat dairy. I guarantee you most people know this trope very well. The push for red meat being healthy is mostly new to this century. Ditto for eggs and dairy fat. Since the 1970's there was a clear market against these things and there are many statistics to show this. If I'm not mistaken red meat, dairy, and egg consumption has dropped drastically in the US. Only certain fringe health groups support those foods.

With the exception of fringe countries and extremely modern updates, the narrative for decades has been eat your eggs, dairy and meat for protein. Some grains and complex carbs, some fruit and veges and keep low oils and sugar. The classic food pyramid. Not sure what guidelines you're referring to here. Meat certainly hasn't dropped in consumption and neither has eggs. Dairy, maybe I'm not sure but the industries are certainly still very much in the ring.

Haha nope no cognitive dissonance here, especially considering the fact that I didnt ignore those industries influence, just didnt agree with your characterization of those particular industries messages. I dont doubt that theres industries pushing these things, I just thing the push for vegetarian/ vegan is quite obviously more prevalent. Just to make this conversation fair, since you are implying a bias on my end, you are a vegan currently are you not?

Where are you getting this mainstream push for vegetarian/vegan? lol Show me any official government body that is pushing that narrative, apart from maybe extremely recent updates for some fringe countries (talking within the last couple of years maybe). If anything there is a strong anti vegan narrative and the mainstream media is well on board with that. The meat, dairy, egg industries are still doing there thing. Yes I eat a plant based diet for the most part. And there is good reason for that.

 

[Jennifer]

In my case, in the worst occasions, it is a very thick, snowy white, lair of foam that, if I dont flush it down (but I do flush my toilet, trust me) would sit on the top for days.
It looks as horrible as it sounds....

Yeah, that sounds like protein. I wish you luck in figuring out what's causing it. :)

For me,I think it's more like bubbles, because if the urine doesn't hit the toilet water, it doesn't produce any foam. What type of gas could I have in my urine?

Not sure, but I came across this and found it interesting:

Urine, Gas in - Kidney and Urinary Tract Disorders - Merck Manuals Consumer Version

In the past, I noticed bubbles when I ate foods that caused bloating or irritated my gut like coconut, avocados and dried fruit so last night I experimented with having some whole fruit. I had some intestinal pain after and went to bed. In the morning I had bloating and cramping in my colon and when I went to pee, there were bubbles.

Jennifer, these are human experiments. What are the equivalences?

There can also be other factors at play to influence how much it takes to maximize it, not necessarily pathological although it's a good sign to be able to extract more out of less. An example would be inefficient adsorption in an olderly requiring a greater consumption if the goal was to maximize the muscle synthesis.

Thank you! That makes sense. It's probably a good sign then that I only need around 2500 calories a day now to feel satisfied instead of the 3000+ I needed on a fruitarian diet. Now that I think about it, CLASH likely still gets more protein than I do since he eats more calories. Even though I eat roughly 12oz of shellfish daily or an equivalent that includes eggs, the rest of my diet is made up of low protein foods (fruit, coconut water, honey and maple syrup) so I rarely go over 100g of protein per day.

 

[Jennifer]

But you must understand that the grain, pufa, soy industries are not vegetarian or vegan and certainly aren't at all mutually exclusive to animal agriculture.. In fact more of those products are used to feed animals than to feed humans. Something like 80% plus of all soy grown in the world is fed to livestock. Similar with grains.

Not to butt in on the conversation, but I found this interesting in regards to how much of the soy and grain grown is actually fed to livestock:

 

[Amazoniac]

Yeah, I noticed that. But I read one study saying that, for example, the liver uses amino-acids as one of its energy sources, so perhaps there is a certain amount of protein oxidation that is desirable, and which is not achieved with low intakes of protein. And considering that haidut posted a study showing that a high protein diet can heal the liver, maybe the increased protein oxidation is worth it.

It's knowned that there's an amino acid that's going to be limiting for synthesis. Perhaps in certain conditions there will be an extraordinary need for one (or a few) in specific that forces the body to discard the others to get enough of it for other purposes, and in this case it would explain the intentional wasting with benefits.

 

[redsun]

With the exception of fringe countries and extremely modern updates, the narrative for decades has been eat your eggs, dairy and meat for protein. Some grains and complex carbs, some fruit and veges and keep low oils and sugar. The classic food pyramid. Not sure what guidelines you're referring to here. Meat certainly hasn't dropped in consumption and neither has eggs. Dairy, maybe I'm not sure but the industries are certainly still very much in the ring.

Where are you getting this mainstream push for vegetarian/vegan? lol Show me any official government body that is pushing that narrative, apart from maybe extremely recent updates for some fringe countries (talking within the last couple of years maybe). If anything there is a strong anti vegan narrative and the mainstream media is well on board with that. The meat, dairy, egg industries are still doing there thing. Yes I eat a plant based diet for the most part. And there is good reason for that.

The classic food pyramid is focused on eggs, meat, and dairy? Are you ******* joking LOL.

This is the 1992 USDA Food pyramid that most everyone should be familiar with. AKA the US government AKA an official government body.

6-11 servings of starches
3-5 servings of vegetables
2-4 servings of fruit
2-3 servings of dairy
2-3 servings of meat

And now this is the current guidelines in the US:

" MyPlate is divided into four sections of approximately 30 percent grains, 40 percent vegetables, 10 percent fruits and 20 percent protein, accompanied by a smaller circle representing dairy, such as a glass of milk or a yogurt cup.

MyPlate is supplemented with an additional recommendations, such as "Make half your plate fruits and vegetables", "Switch to 1% or skim milk", "Make at least half your grains whole", and "Vary your protein food choices."[9] The guidelines also recommend portion control while still enjoying food, as well as reductions in sodium and sugar intakes.[1]"

They simplified it into percentages and ignored the servings now its

40% vegetables
30% grains
10% fruit
20% protein (doesn't even mention meat, just protein aka vegan protein aka a joke)
With a serving of preferably skim milk with each meal it seems

The US governement recommends a plant based diet and has been for awhile. You literally live in a cave. Make my day and try to jump through hoops explaining how these recommendations aren't plant based but animal food based. Most other countries food guidelines are very similar to the US as well. Spend 5 seconds googling different countries food guidelines such as UK, Canada, etc and realize how dead wrong you are. The fact that you even bring up this argument that mainstream isn't pushing plant-based/vegetarian/vegan is laughable. This is common knowledge. Plant-based brainpower at work folks.

 

[CLASH]

But you must understand that the grain, pufa, soy industries are not vegetarian or vegan and certainly aren't at all mutually exclusive to animal agriculture.. In fact more of those products are used to feed animals than to feed humans. Something like 80% plus of all soy grown in the world is fed to livestock and only about 6% of soy is turned into human food, most of it consumed in Asia. The remaining approx 10% is turned into soy oil. Grains is about half to half livestock use to human use I believe and that is shifting more and more toward more going to animal ag (meat consumption is rising btw). PUFA oils i'm not sure the stats but they definitely use a lot of it in feed for livestock to fatten them up etc. Fast food is meat and PUFA oil heavy, I mean the two almost can't be separated in that industry because PUFA oils are the cheapest and most abundant. As far as profit and interest goes, soy is of main interest to the animal ag industry and there are no companies making big bucks off tofu or soy milk lol same goes for grains, most of it is grown in the third world and shipped to the west. PUFA industry i'm not sure about but again it pales in comparison to the money and influence in animal agriculture. PUFA oils are very important to the fast food industry though, as are grains to the cereal industry and companies like kelloggs and so. Do you wonder why there is no big rice influence but you mention grains? That's because 1. it is not fed to livestock and 2. it is not really used in the production of products from big companies like kelloggs.

With the exception of fringe countries and extremely modern updates, the narrative for decades has been eat your eggs, dairy and meat for protein. Some grains and complex carbs, some fruit and veges and keep low oils and sugar. The classic food pyramid. Not sure what guidelines you're referring to here. Meat certainly hasn't dropped in consumption and neither has eggs. Dairy, maybe I'm not sure but the industries are certainly still very much in the ring.

Where are you getting this mainstream push for vegetarian/vegan? lol Show me any official government body that is pushing that narrative, apart from maybe extremely recent updates for some fringe countries (talking within the last couple of years maybe). If anything there is a strong anti vegan narrative and the mainstream media is well on board with that. The meat, dairy, egg industries are still doing there thing. Yes I eat a plant based diet for the most part. And there is good reason for that.

1) your changing the conversation to some extent
2) you seem to be making things up to fit your narrative.

The narrative has been for many decades a plant based mostly vegetarian diet backed by the grain, soy, and PUFA industry as well as almost every major government body. There is no argument against this man. Look at the food pyramid, look at the food plate, look at the American heart association diet recs or any other body like that. Whole grains, nuts and seeds, PUFA, vegetables, fruits, low fat dairy and lean light meat protein sources if they are eaten at all. Demonizing high fat dairy, eggs and meat has been going on specifically since the 70s with the cholesterol heart disease hypothesis. Theres no denying this, its almost common knowledge. The statistics show this directly, as well as almost all government regulations. I dont know if your that ignorant of the prevailing culture or if you are making things up to avoid your cognitive dissonance.

Rice isnt big because its not a major crop in the US. Lol kind of hard to set up rice patties in the middle of the country, they only grow in the mid south and california.

Kellogs rice krispies.... Are you not from America haha?

Lol blatantly false statement, the narrative hasnt been to eat your eggs dairy and meat. The food pyramid doesnt say that at all, have you looked at it recently?

Your making sh*t up, meat consumption has definetly dropped, so has eggs and dairy. Have you heard of the cholesterol heart disease hypothesis?

Changes in consumption of omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids in the United States during the 20th century

I attached some pictures so you can see the reality of the situation.

-grains 20-25% of calories
-sugars 15% of calories
-dairy (most likely low fat) 15% of calories
-soy oil 7% of calories
-vegetables 5% of calories
-poultry 5% of calories
-beef 5% of calories
-pork 4% of calories

assuming a 2000kcal diet which is the recommendation, thats on average:
100 kcal of chicken
100 kcal of beef
80kcal of pork

Butter, tallow and lard are at 2kg/person/ per year. That comes out to less than 10g of fat from all of these combined per person per day....

453g in a lb x 2.2lbs in a kg= 997g in a year

997g/ 365 days = 2.7g of each per day. So around 3g of each of these per day on average

You can see the rest. Its very time consuming to dispel this bull****, if you want to have a real conversation stop making things up as you go.

 

[Vinny]

The classic food pyramid is focused on eggs, meat, and dairy? Are you ******* joking LOL.

This is the 1992 USDA Food pyramid that most everyone should be familiar with. AKA the US government AKA an official government body.

View attachment 15770

6-11 servings of starches
3-5 servings of vegetables
2-4 servings of fruit
2-3 servings of dairy
2-3 servings of meat

And now this is the current guidelines in the US:

View attachment 15771

" MyPlate is divided into four sections of approximately 30 percent grains, 40 percent vegetables, 10 percent fruits and 20 percent protein, accompanied by a smaller circle representing dairy, such as a glass of milk or a yogurt cup.

MyPlate is supplemented with an additional recommendations, such as "Make half your plate fruits and vegetables", "Switch to 1% or skim milk", "Make at least half your grains whole", and "Vary your protein food choices."[9] The guidelines also recommend portion control while still enjoying food, as well as reductions in sodium and sugar intakes.[1]"

They simplified it into percentages and ignored the servings now its

40% vegetables
30% grains
10% fruit
20% protein (doesn't even mention meat, just protein aka vegan protein aka a joke)
With a serving of preferably skim milk with each meal it seems

The US governement recommends a plant based diet and has been for awhile. You literally live in a cave. Make my day and try to jump through hoops explaining how these recommendations aren't plant based but animal food based. Most other countries food guidelines are very similar to the US as well. Spend 5 seconds googling different countries food guidelines such as UK, Canada, etc and realize how dead wrong you are. The fact that you even bring up this argument that mainstream isn't pushing plant-based/vegetarian/vegan is laughable. This is common knowledge. Plant-based brainpower at work folks.

 

[Vinny]

Yeah, that sounds like protein. I wish you luck in figuring out what's causing it. :)

Thanks, Jennifer

 

[Homo Consumericus]

I actually looked him up, and he is suffering from hair loss. I am not pointing this out to criticize his aesthetics, it is just a pattern that I have noticed repeatedly in men that start working out and eating excess protein. Many of them suddenly get very hairy and hair starts going. Ridiculous protein recommendations like his are not healthy.



No brainfog here, reading comprehension is fine, too. Actually, it is excess protein that has been shown to cause serious mental malfunctioning in hepatic encephalopathy due to excess ammonia.



Very comfy, thanks. This effect you mention has nothing to do with the effects on long-term body temperature and thyroid function. Try eating high-protein diet for a while to see how warm you get. Carbohydrates promote thermogenesis, brown-fat activation, uncoupling and thyroid function.



I'd heard rumors about beefcakes and anger issues which I just didn't want to believe.

- You continue to superficially criticize a credentialed, experienced, professional's evidence-based recommendations for athletes and lifting enthusiasts, who through following his advice successfully achieve their goals, rather than submit counter evidence.

- You meme about encephalopathy from excess ammonia despite a lack of evidence of statistically significant emergencies of that kind emerging from athletic or weekened warrior populations (much like the manganese haters meming about endocarditis, failing to mention that the study was on rats and that the lead author indicated injectable drug addicts and patients on long term intravenous diets as the ones potentially at risk) to gloss over your embarrassing reading comprehension which I called out in my previous comment.

- You ask me to eat protein for a while to see if I get warm, when I wrote that this is what I've been doing for 9-10 years.

Additional nuance: I currently eat the upper end of the protein range mentioned earlier (280-320 grams per day). You would likely label this high protein but I call it moderate protein because the qualifier "high" is warranted only to describe the macro supplying the most calories. If 1800-2400 calories are from carbs (varies between heavy training, volume training, and rest days), 1200 are from protein, and 600 are from fat, the diet is high carb, moderate protein, and low fat.

Of course this discussion of macros and body temp arises from my final tongue-in-cheek comments about how to be more manly in my original post. Since you failed to level valid criticism at some of my serious propositions and avoided the rest, you attempt to score points by criticising a joke. Yet here still I will say, a client who eats four large meals all composed of steak, potatoes, cheese, and fruit, lifts weights, and carrys more muscle on his frame, will be warmer than the same client eating only one steak, potatoes, cheese, and fruit meal, and then only plants + coconut oil/chocolate/butter/tallow for the rest of his meals (or a microscopic 12.5-20 gram portion of protein per meal), lifting no weights, and carrying less muscle on his frame.

Regarding the second joke about chewing, the reality is that while the chewiness of the steak may not be primarily responsible for jaw size gains, the increased animal protein certainly is, since, as Dr. Paul Mason explained, bone is yet another protein structure.

 

[Homo Consumericus]

1) your changing the conversation to some extent
2) you seem to be making things up to fit your narrative.

The narrative has been for many decades a plant based mostly vegetarian diet backed by the grain, soy, and PUFA industry as well as almost every major government body. There is no argument against this man. Look at the food pyramid, look at the food plate, look at the American heart association diet recs or any other body like that. Whole grains, nuts and seeds, PUFA, vegetables, fruits, low fat dairy and lean light meat protein sources if they are eaten at all. Demonizing high fat dairy, eggs and meat has been going on specifically since the 70s with the cholesterol heart disease hypothesis. Theres no denying this, its almost common knowledge. The statistics show this directly, as well as almost all government regulations. I dont know if your that ignorant of the prevailing culture or if you are making things up to avoid your cognitive dissonance.

Rice isnt big because its not a major crop in the US. Lol kind of hard to set up rice patties in the middle of the country, they only grow in the mid south and california.

Kellogs rice krispies.... Are you not from America haha?

Lol blatantly false statement, the narrative hasnt been to eat your eggs dairy and meat. The food pyramid doesnt say that at all, have you looked at it recently?

Your making sh*t up, meat consumption has definetly dropped, so has eggs and dairy. Have you heard of the cholesterol heart disease hypothesis?

Changes in consumption of omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids in the United States during the 20th century

I attached some pictures so you can see the reality of the situation.

-grains 20-25% of calories
-sugars 15% of calories
-dairy (most likely low fat) 15% of calories
-soy oil 7% of calories
-vegetables 5% of calories
-poultry 5% of calories
-beef 5% of calories
-pork 4% of calories

assuming a 2000kcal diet which is the recommendation, thats on average:
100 kcal of chicken
100 kcal of beef
80kcal of pork

Butter, tallow and lard are at 2kg/person/ per year. That comes out to less than 10g of fat from all of these combined per person per day....

453g in a lb x 2.2lbs in a kg= 997g in a year

997g/ 365 days = 2.7g of each per day. So around 3g of each of these per day on average

You can see the rest. Its very time consuming to dispel this bull****, if you want to have a real conversation stop making things up as you go.

Time consuming, but appreciated!

 

[Homo Consumericus]

The classic food pyramid is focused on eggs, meat, and dairy? Are you ******* joking LOL.

This is the 1992 USDA Food pyramid that most everyone should be familiar with. AKA the US government AKA an official government body.

View attachment 15770

6-11 servings of starches
3-5 servings of vegetables
2-4 servings of fruit
2-3 servings of dairy
2-3 servings of meat

And now this is the current guidelines in the US:

View attachment 15771

" MyPlate is divided into four sections of approximately 30 percent grains, 40 percent vegetables, 10 percent fruits and 20 percent protein, accompanied by a smaller circle representing dairy, such as a glass of milk or a yogurt cup.

MyPlate is supplemented with an additional recommendations, such as "Make half your plate fruits and vegetables", "Switch to 1% or skim milk", "Make at least half your grains whole", and "Vary your protein food choices."[9] The guidelines also recommend portion control while still enjoying food, as well as reductions in sodium and sugar intakes.[1]"

They simplified it into percentages and ignored the servings now its

40% vegetables
30% grains
10% fruit
20% protein (doesn't even mention meat, just protein aka vegan protein aka a joke)
With a serving of preferably skim milk with each meal it seems

The US governement recommends a plant based diet and has been for awhile. You literally live in a cave. Make my day and try to jump through hoops explaining how these recommendations aren't plant based but animal food based. Most other countries food guidelines are very similar to the US as well. Spend 5 seconds googling different countries food guidelines such as UK, Canada, etc and realize how dead wrong you are. The fact that you even bring up this argument that mainstream isn't pushing plant-based/vegetarian/vegan is laughable. This is common knowledge. Plant-based brainpower at work folks.

Quality post.

 

[Kartoffel]

- You continue to superficially criticize a credentialed, experienced, professional's evidence-based recommendations for athletes and lifting enthusiasts, who through following his advice successfully achieve their goals, rather than submit counter evidence.

Uhh, Beefacke M.D. has credentials ^^ He knows how to help his clients lead a purposeful life and build big guns.

 

[ExCarniv]

Uhh, Beefacke M.D. has credentials ^^ He knows how to help his clients lead a purposeful life and build big guns.

Ray Peat said: Muscle is protective and pro metabolism

 

[Kartoffel]

Ray Peat said: Muscle is protective and pro metabolism

No one denies that. Also Ray Peat: "I do a few squats every ten years."

 

[Ritchie]

1) your changing the conversation to some extent
2) you seem to be making things up to fit your narrative.

The narrative has been for many decades a plant based mostly vegetarian diet backed by the grain, soy, and PUFA industry as well as almost every major government body. There is no argument against this man. Look at the food pyramid, look at the food plate, look at the American heart association diet recs or any other body like that. Whole grains, nuts and seeds, PUFA, vegetables, fruits, low fat dairy and lean light meat protein sources if they are eaten at all. Demonizing high fat dairy, eggs and meat has been going on specifically since the 70s with the cholesterol heart disease hypothesis. Theres no denying this, its almost common knowledge. The statistics show this directly, as well as almost all government regulations. I dont know if your that ignorant of the prevailing culture or if you are making things up to avoid your cognitive dissonance.

Rice isnt big because its not a major crop in the US. Lol kind of hard to set up rice patties in the middle of the country, they only grow in the mid south and california.

Kellogs rice krispies.... Are you not from America haha?

Lol blatantly false statement, the narrative hasnt been to eat your eggs dairy and meat. The food pyramid doesnt say that at all, have you looked at it recently?

Your making sh*t up, meat consumption has definetly dropped, so has eggs and dairy. Have you heard of the cholesterol heart disease hypothesis?

Changes in consumption of omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids in the United States during the 20th century

I attached some pictures so you can see the reality of the situation.

-grains 20-25% of calories
-sugars 15% of calories
-dairy (most likely low fat) 15% of calories
-soy oil 7% of calories
-vegetables 5% of calories
-poultry 5% of calories
-beef 5% of calories
-pork 4% of calories

assuming a 2000kcal diet which is the recommendation, thats on average:
100 kcal of chicken
100 kcal of beef
80kcal of pork

Butter, tallow and lard are at 2kg/person/ per year. That comes out to less than 10g of fat from all of these combined per person per day....

453g in a lb x 2.2lbs in a kg= 997g in a year

997g/ 365 days = 2.7g of each per day. So around 3g of each of these per day on average

You can see the rest. Its very time consuming to dispel this bull****, if you want to have a real conversation stop making things up as you go.

I’m referring specifically to protein recommendations. Which is what the topic of the thread is about. Caution about excessive protein? And referring to the holy grail idea of the importance of getting high amounts of it ingrained into culture and the psyche, specifically through eggs, meat and dairy as has been pushed for decades. Sure there have been health organisations working against that but the big commercial message has pushed meat, eggs and dairy for a very long time and still do. Just look at the major sponsors and donations are for the health organisations and government bodies. Various components of the animal agriculture industry.
Sure I agree government bodies also promote starch from whole grains, rice, potatoes, along with fruit, veg, and a bit of oil but that’s not the topic of the thread. i was simply pointing out that the money making influence comes mainly from animal agriculture industry. Soy, grain and PUFA oils are equally important to animal ag because that’s what they feed them to produce it lol was that point missed on you?
Anyway it’s an interesting conversation, where do you think the interest lies in converting people to being vegan? Bearing in mind almost the majority of soy is fed to livestock, half the grain... I mean you gota follow the money. Or do you think it is some conspiracy to make people unwell or something

 

[Ritchie]

The classic food pyramid is focused on eggs, meat, and dairy? Are you ******* joking LOL.

This is the 1992 USDA Food pyramid that most everyone should be familiar with. AKA the US government AKA an official government body.

View attachment 15770

6-11 servings of starches
3-5 servings of vegetables
2-4 servings of fruit
2-3 servings of dairy
2-3 servings of meat

And now this is the current guidelines in the US:

View attachment 15771

" MyPlate is divided into four sections of approximately 30 percent grains, 40 percent vegetables, 10 percent fruits and 20 percent protein, accompanied by a smaller circle representing dairy, such as a glass of milk or a yogurt cup.

MyPlate is supplemented with an additional recommendations, such as "Make half your plate fruits and vegetables", "Switch to 1% or skim milk", "Make at least half your grains whole", and "Vary your protein food choices."[9] The guidelines also recommend portion control while still enjoying food, as well as reductions in sodium and sugar intakes.[1]"

They simplified it into percentages and ignored the servings now its

40% vegetables
30% grains
10% fruit
20% protein (doesn't even mention meat, just protein aka vegan protein aka a joke)
With a serving of preferably skim milk with each meal it seems

The US governement recommends a plant based diet and has been for awhile. You literally live in a cave. Make my day and try to jump through hoops explaining how these recommendations aren't plant based but animal food based. Most other countries food guidelines are very similar to the US as well. Spend 5 seconds googling different countries food guidelines such as UK, Canada, etc and realize how dead wrong you are. The fact that you even bring up this argument that mainstream isn't pushing plant-based/vegetarian/vegan is laughable. This is common knowledge. Plant-based brainpower at work folks.

The topic of the thread is specifically "a word of caution against protein intake", both examples you posted heavily promote meat, eggs and dairy. The my plate link, click on protein and it specifically says "meat, poultry, seafood.." as the first three recommendations. Lol how is that promoting "vegan protein" hahaha cmon man. And they are pushing dairy and eggs hard as well on that link, a glass of milk with every meal? For every person, think about how much dairy that would equal to supply all that. You gota see this for what it is. I'm not saying they don't recommend carbs from grains and starch etc, I'm just saying animal agriculture industry has had a big influence on western perspective of the importance of protein, still do and that is specifically in relation to this thread topic which is protein. Bare in mind, there is no real money in what you refer to as "vegan protein".. legumes, beans, lentils, all very cheap products..