A Word Of Caution Against Excessive Protein Intake

Discussion in 'Articles & Scientific Studies' started by Mito, Nov 25, 2019.

  1. Mito

    Mito Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    1,417
    Abstract
    Dietary protein is crucial for human health because it provides essential amino acids for protein synthesis. In addition, dietary protein is more satiating than carbohydrate and fat. Accordingly, many people consider the protein content when purchasing food and beverages and report ‘trying to eat more protein’. The global market for protein ingredients is projected to reach approximately US$90 billion by 2021, largely driven by the growing demand for protein-fortified food products. This Perspective serves as a caution against the trend of protein-enriched diets and provides an evidence-based counterpoint that underscores the potential adverse public health consequences of high protein intake.
    DF9C02DB-E7C2-4CF5-8400-5AF301348149.jpeg




    A word of caution against excessive protein intake | Nature Reviews Endocrinology
     
  2. tankasnowgod

    tankasnowgod Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2014
    Messages:
    2,522
    Gender:
    Male
    Soooooooo....... what, exactly, is the word of caution?
     
  3. CLASH

    CLASH Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2017
    Messages:
    792
    Gender:
    Male
    0.6g/lb - 0.8g/lb seems to be a good amount from the research. I notice too much protein can cause a change of fermentation pattern in my colon. I've been closer to 0.6g/lb lately.
     
  4. Ritchie

    Ritchie Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2015
    Messages:
    261
    Gender:
    Male
    Thanks for posting this study, very interesting.. I'm not subscribed to that journal so I can't see the full text but may end up purchasing.. I'm assuming when they say maximum saturation of protein reaching 30g they are meaning per meal? Out of curiosity what is it that the researchers conclude is the ideal average for protein consumption? I think the official recommendation across many of the organisational bodies is 0.8/kg or roughly 0.4/lb, probably slightly higher if one is very active/athletic..
     
  5. Ritchie

    Ritchie Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2015
    Messages:
    261
    Gender:
    Male
    That consuming excess protein leads to amino acid degradation and oxidation.. probably leading to a variety of chronic issues involving the kidneys and liver among other things i'm assuming. Haven't looked into it enough to give a definitive though.
     
  6. CLASH

    CLASH Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2017
    Messages:
    792
    Gender:
    Male
    The threshold for protein oxidation, if I remember correctly, is described in the study where I got my 0.6g/lb to 0.8g/lb. That amount is the goldilocks zone for avoiding protein oxidation while maintaining a positive nitrogen balance and preserving lean mass. As with all things the dose makes the poison but in general it'd be quite hard to consume enough protein to cause significant damage to the liver and kidneys. That idea is mostly vegan scare tactics, much like low carber/ keto scare tactics about sugar. You would have to go out of your way to eat enough protein over a period of time to cause liver and kidney damage, unless you had an inborn genetic aberration in metabolic cycles involving protein degradation by the liver, and or the urea cycle etc. This also depends on the protein source. The bigger issue one would run into is, depending on the protein source and gut biome, some microbial end products that could be irritating and/ or toxic.

    I wouldnt go by any of the regulating bodies guidelines. They are often, atleast in my opinion, industry driven and private interest motivated. They are also often based on outdated research.

    That said, there is also an industry pushing protein products and many people eat an excess of protein that may be better as carbs or fats. As with all things functioning in the optimal point is the key, not the bare minimum, nor the absolute maximum. Knowing those two latter values is helpful tho.
     
  7. Ritchie

    Ritchie Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2015
    Messages:
    261
    Gender:
    Male
    Yeah haha well that's the topic of the thread right? The study the OP posted and the details therein. I can't access it, only the abstract, however I'm curious to know what they concluded was the best amount of protein based on the aims of the research. May purchase the study because it does sound interesting.
     
  8. CLASH

    CLASH Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2017
    Messages:
    792
    Gender:
    Male
    @Ritchie
    From the graph it looks like on a per meal basis it maxes out at 20-30g. This lines up with other research that shows around 0.4g/kg per meal are the maximum protein requirements for muscle protein synthesis in a meal. For most people that falls in the range from the study. From what I understand younger people need less protein overall than older to protein synthesis. This also depends on protein quality. Obviously 20g of protein from egg, beef or dairy is way different than 20g from beans/ rice, corn/beans, veggies, nuts/ seeds etc.

    The myth of 1 g/lb: Optimal protein intake for bodybuilders

     
  9. Rafael Lao Wai

    Rafael Lao Wai Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2017
    Messages:
    938
    Gender:
    Male
    I've been thinking about having more meals, instead of two big ones like I'm doing now. I'm always between 100 and 200 grams of protein per day currently, and I can easily eat a pound of lean meat with some tallow added in one go. A pound of lean meat is about 100 grams of protein at once, which may be a bit much. It's so convenient though. As long as I drink something sweet between meals, I can go without eating for about 8 or 9 hours. But I do notice that I get foamy urine sometimes, which may be an indication of too much protein at once.

    I think Amazoniac pointed out that consuming more protein than the muscles need may have some other beneficial effects, since it's not only the muscles that use protein.

    I wonder what the "mixed" meal contained. Probably some PUFA. I wonder if consuming a lot of sucrose with the protein can decrease amino-acid oxidation( even when there are excess amino- acids), since a study with intravenous fructose showed less muscle breakdown.
     
  10. Sativa

    Sativa Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2018
    Messages:
    400
    Gender:
    Male
    instead, you could just use SCI-HUB to access all research papers for free...
    link - sci-hub.tw

    That site has saved me at least 100k+ (in whatever your local currency is)
    I can't believe that ANYONE still pays to access research papers.
     
  11. Rafael Lao Wai

    Rafael Lao Wai Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2017
    Messages:
    938
    Gender:
    Male
    OMG!!

    Thanks so much! I just tried accessing the full article and it worked.

    Gonna use that for other articles that I've been wanting to read as well. Really nice!
     
  12. Rafael Lao Wai

    Rafael Lao Wai Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2017
    Messages:
    938
    Gender:
    Male
  13. Zigzag

    Zigzag Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2018
    Messages:
    112
    Gender:
    Male
    Their conclusion is that higher dietary protein with high carbohydrates might lead to T2D.
     
  14. ExCarniv

    ExCarniv Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2019
    Messages:
    442
    Gender:
    Male
    I blame the fat+carbs combination for that, not protein.
    Most people on the SAD are pre diabetic at least and no one eats high protein, the common link is: high saturated and pufas and high carbs.
     
  15. Zigzag

    Zigzag Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2018
    Messages:
    112
    Gender:
    Male
    You think that, I do and pretty much everyone here, but here we have a scientific paper where they didn't even bother mentioning fat as a possible culprit. According to them nearly all bodybuilders and people who are into fitness in general are diabetics.
     
  16. Sativa

    Sativa Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2018
    Messages:
    400
    Gender:
    Male
    It provides free access to ALL existing research documents :D
    afaik, the site uses active researcher credentials/keys, donated by forward thinking researchers, allowing anyone to access anything. bye-bye paywalls.
     
  17. Vinny

    Vinny Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2018
    Messages:
    475
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Paphos, Cyprus
    I've been peeing foamy urine for about three years. Still tricky to find connection with a certain nutrient offender, but the last one I suspect is animal (muscle meat) protein.
    The main one in my list is milk/dairy, and the next one to it I`d put wheat/starch.
    If I get lucky to root it out, I`ll post, but there is very noticeable reduction in foam after completely ditching milk/dairy. Hope to be on the right path.
     
  18. Kartoffel

    Kartoffel Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2017
    Messages:
    1,177
    Gender:
    Male
    I disagree. If your digestion happens to be ineffective, and/or you have bacterial overgrowth (both of which often occur in hypothyroidism), the amount of protein required to cause serious problems can be quite low. If you induce colitis in rats, anything over 20% of calories will exacerbate disease progression and prevent recovery, probably due to bacterial metabolism of undigested peptides. Protein is the only macro-nutrient consistently associated with inflammatory diseases of the digestive tract, and the beneficial effect of protein restriction on life span is undeniable. Broda Barnes emphasized that high protein intake will significantly increase the amount of thyroid needed to normalize symptoms in his patients.
     
  19. CLASH

    CLASH Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2017
    Messages:
    792
    Gender:
    Male
    We are saying the same thing man.
    20% of calories from protein is a lot. I referenced .6g/lb - .8g/lb, and stipulated closer to .6g/lb. I'm 175- 180lbs at 6'2", around 10% bodyfat, maybe even less (i've been losing weight inadvertently recently). Thats about 108g/ day to 144g/ day of protein which is 432 - 576 kcal per day of protein. On a 3000- 3500kcal diet which is around what I've been eating, thats about 12% to 19% calories as protein. I stay closer to 0.6g/lb, eating around 12oz of cooked animal protein per day. Plus, On cronometer a portion of my protein is met via the fruit I eat as well.

    Also, see here, from the post you quoted above:

    And also, my point about it being hard to cause damage to liver and the kidneys with protein was in reference to actually metabolizing the protein directly. Ritchie's post implied that you could eat enough protein such that the metabolism of that protein by the liver and the kidneys would actually be toxic. My point was that you would have to go out of your way to actually do this. Then I brought up the quote above, that the issue with excess protein isnt that too much will cause metabolic issues itself but too much may cause toxic metabolites from gut bacteria once it escapes digestion.

    I would say overall you and I actually agree. We need optimal protein, not too much, not too little. After all we are apes that evolved to eat some meat/ fat.

    EDIT: One important thing to stipulate, I think would be that when looking at amount of protein, perhaps lean mass should be taken into consideration. If you have a 300lb person who is morbidly obese, perhaps the reference guideline I discussed might be too much. Also, perhaps in a very malnourished/ thin individual that protein requirement may be too low. This is mostly an issue of using weight as a reference point for which to target the guideline to but overall I think the picture is relatively clear, especially since the context of the reference guideline is as a baseline and to adjust as needed.
     
  20. ExCarniv

    ExCarniv Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2019
    Messages:
    442
    Gender:
    Male
    In rats.
     
Loading...