A Wish For More Energy

Markus

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  • Needing to eat a lot to raise metabolism, temps and ultimately energy levels
  • Gets tired at the end of the day and/or after some meals and needing to lie down from constantly eating and shutting down stress hormones
How do you even win at this game?
Don't overthink it and just let go!
 

Korven

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  • Needing to eat a lot to raise metabolism, temps and ultimately energy levels
  • Gets tired at the end of the day and/or after some meals and needing to lie down from constantly eating and shutting down stress hormones
How do you even win at this game?

I also get tired from having too many solid meals, especially starch which I haven't touched for months now.

How do you feel after a meal of milk + maybe honey/fruits?

I've found that drinking whole milk throughout the day gives me good energy without weighing me down too much. Then in the evening I have a big meal with lots of red meat. Recently I've been getting lots of quality milk and also been out in the sun, it's made a big difference to my temperature and pulse rate.
 
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GreekDemiGod

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I also realized that I need 4k calories spreaded through the day to avoid hypoglycemia.

Going 2hr+ after a meal is a no go.
 

LLight

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  • Needing to eat a lot to raise metabolism, temps and ultimately energy levels
  • Gets tired at the end of the day and/or after some meals and needing to lie down from constantly eating and shutting down stress hormones
How do you even win at this game?

Seems pretty paradoxical. Could be that it's not the solution to your problem.

Has someone got out of the "stress hormone lowering that makes them worse" ever?
 
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GreekDemiGod

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@LLight I am confident it is the right approach. What else there is?
I must have been chronically hypoglicemic for years without realizing. I thought I had anxiety and other mental issues, when in fact I was just in starvation mode.
Sometimes I'm fresh or energetic after a meal, sometimes need to lie down. One thing is for sure. If I avoid very large meals (over 1000 cal in one sitting), I'm fine
 

mrchibbs

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Have you looked at something like the Perfect Health Diet?

In many ways, it's not that much different from what Peat usually recommends - avoid grains, beans, and PUFA. In some ways they actually dovetail. But the main difference is that they strongly advise you to reduce your sugar intake, instead focusing on "safe starches" (eg. white rice, potatoes) and occasional fruit. A lot of people claim they regain energy when their sugar consumption is significantly reduced. Oh, and also, milk is treated as a pleasure food, not something to be chugged all day long, a la Peat. It all strikes me as eminently sensible, and as much as I love Ray, I'm not sure his practical advice is always terribly sensible.

I don't know, if things aren't working for you, you could look at something slightly different.

PHD is a great book. Very well referenced and a pleasure to read. The Jaminets have a very nuanced perspective on nutrition. I've had it for 5 years or more, and it's always a pleasure to read. Indeed, there is a lot of overlap. Ray is more open towards dairy, and more stringent on omega-3s.

That being said, I think if you listen to Ray more carefully, he never says not chug down loads of sugar, and has advised against refined sugar on its own, except in acute stress situations. He refers to milk and orange juice because they are cheap, available foods which cover the basics, and people are often stuck to those suggestions. And he often recommends small snacks like a fruit and a glass of milk, instead of big meals.

Paul Jaminet's recipes are in accordance with Ray's ideas, and his recommendations of safe starches aligns with Ray's (although Ray personally has stopped eating starches, he used them for a long time). Masa harina, sourdough bread, white rice, potatoes, taro all fit the concept of ''safe starches''.

A lot of us (myself included) on this forum, have probably made the mistake of getting into ''Peating'' guns blazing, eating a lot of refined sugar, and chugging whole milk (only then to realize Ray recommends 1% lol), or big meals of pancakes with butter and maple syrup, leading to gain a good amount of body weight. When we're sick and not oxidizing glucose very well, big meals of carbs can increase fat storage, increase parathyroid, and serotonin, and Ray has written about this many times.

It's like when people (again I speak from experience, not from a condescending perspective) jump into thyroid supplementation without truly understanding Ray's recommendations and they take entire tablets of cynoplus (thereby creating massive t4 backlog and rT3 problems), or taking large doses of T3, leading to heart palpitations or other negative symptoms, and then they're ''turned off'' of Ray's thyroid suggestions or better yet they say ''it doesn't work for me'', when in fact what they were doing is so far removed from what Ray is saying.

Much like the nuanced approach of the PHD book, it's important to be very meticulous and deliberate when adopting ''Peaty'' ideas. Unfortunately most of us are sick and want relief and we make mistakes initially.
 

mrchibbs

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I arrived late home last night and I went a few hours without eating in the Evening.
At first, I got the usual hunger and hypoglycemia symptoms that I now recognize well. After a while, the hunger reduced, it remembered me of my fasting days. I wonder what is the mechanism here. Does the body liberate free fatty acids during this time, to keep my blood sugar up?

I don't know if it had any PUFAs in it or something else that would cause an estrogen rebound. But it got me thinking: what's so bad about eating a hamburger anyway? .

Yeah low blood sugar liberates free fatty acids which further impair your ability to oxidize glucose by damaging the mitochondria. During your recovery (as in now) you should strive to never let yourself go hungry, over several months to a year, you will repair your glucose metabolism. And the FFA poison the thyroid as well. Taking a little niacinamide in these circumstances help to keep the FFA low. Aspirin before bed is probably good in your case too.

Probably nothing. Only possible issue is bread if fortified with iron but not everyone gets personally affected by it strongly. But if they dont do that where you live than its just wheat and then with wheat its up to the individual whether they feel good consuming or not.

Indeed, a burger is great. I have meat balls in my freezer, with nice brioche buns, and when I get a craving for a burger, I just smash one ball on a grill and add some s&p and a slice of cheese. Very tasty, and gives good energy, when I crave it.
 

Diokine

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I feel it's sometimes helpful to understand these sorts of maladies in terms of a perceptual spiral. Focus on the problem and in fact you magnify its effects. The efforts involved in trying to restore is not unlike trying to fill a cup with many holes. What is the cup? Maybe it could be understood as your capacity to tolerate current conditions. What is the liquid that fills? It could be the substance of serenity, peace, understanding. I would propose that you have everything you need right now to stop poking holes in your cup.

Energy may be created in response to potential. If all you perceive is frustration and stress, where is the room for energy? If you look around and perceive avenues of action, energy is created in response to the degree of perceived possibilities. Building a charge without a proper ground can be dangerous for a conductor, similarly trying to build energy without an outlet for its expression can be dangerous to a body. Energy does not present as frantic libido or exertion without exhaustion, but as the most delicate of structures.
 

Vins7

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PHD is a great book. Very well referenced and a pleasure to read. The Jaminets have a very nuanced perspective on nutrition. I've had it for 5 years or more, and it's always a pleasure to read. Indeed, there is a lot of overlap. Ray is more open towards dairy, and more stringent on omega-3s.

That being said, I think if you listen to Ray more carefully, he never says not chug down loads of sugar, and has advised against refined sugar on its own, except in acute stress situations. He refers to milk and orange juice because they are cheap, available foods which cover the basics, and people are often stuck to those suggestions. And he often recommends small snacks like a fruit and a glass of milk, instead of big meals.

Paul Jaminet's recipes are in accordance with Ray's ideas, and his recommendations of safe starches aligns with Ray's (although Ray personally has stopped eating starches, he used them for a long time). Masa harina, sourdough bread, white rice, potatoes, taro all fit the concept of ''safe starches''.

A lot of us (myself included) on this forum, have probably made the mistake of getting into ''Peating'' guns blazing, eating a lot of refined sugar, and chugging whole milk (only then to realize Ray recommends 1% lol), or big meals of pancakes with butter and maple syrup, leading to gain a good amount of body weight. When we're sick and not oxidizing glucose very well, big meals of carbs can increase fat storage, increase parathyroid, and serotonin, and Ray has written about this many times.

It's like when people (again I speak from experience, not from a condescending perspective) jump into thyroid supplementation without truly understanding Ray's recommendations and they take entire tablets of cynoplus (thereby creating massive t4 backlog and rT3 problems), or taking large doses of T3, leading to heart palpitations or other negative symptoms, and then they're ''turned off'' of Ray's thyroid suggestions or better yet they say ''it doesn't work for me'', when in fact what they were doing is so far removed from what Ray is saying.

Much like the nuanced approach of the PHD book, it's important to be very meticulous and deliberate when adopting ''Peaty'' ideas. Unfortunately most of us are sick and want relief and we make mistakes initially.
What's wrong with whole milk?
 
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GreekDemiGod

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I think I now know how high metabolism should feel like. It's like when you're well fed and you have a cup of coffee with lots of sugar after. You feel warmer, pulse is higher, you feel in touch with earth / God, and you have good emotions about your life. You feel safe, balanced, with a lot of "potential energy" at your disposal.
Increasing calories from 3.2k to 4k seems to make a massive difference. I think this is all that I need to heal the thyroid.
 

mrchibbs

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I think I now know how high metabolism should feel like. It's like when you're well fed and you have a cup of coffee with lots of sugar after. You feel warmer, pulse is higher, you feel in touch with earth / God, and you have good emotions about your life. You feel safe, balanced, with a lot of "potential energy" at your disposal.
Increasing calories from 3.2k to 4k seems to make a massive difference. I think this is all that I need to heal the thyroid.

It's a beautiful feeling, isn't it? The day you wake up feeling warm, and you sit outside, energized, after eating some fruits and drinking coffee, watching the sun rise, is when you know what it means to be alive and well. (I don't get there all the time lol but I used to never come close)

A lot of people on this forum have reported weight loss and increased energy past a certain calorie threshold. It scares many people because of the fear of putting on weight, put it's there, I truly believe we may need more energy intake to restore and repair, smaller snacks are good for this, to prevent too high of an insulin response and to make sure everything is metabolized.

I also believe making an effort to eat a lot of good protein from meats (along with enough gelatin to balance it out), is necessary to help the liver detoxify estrogen and endotoxin. That's why the carrot salad is helpful (it does both).

At the end, it's the liver which converts T4 into T3, if it is sluggish or too busy detoxifying other things, it won't do as good a job. It's important not to take too much exogenous T4 when we're hypo, otherwise it can have an anti-thyroid effect. (After many trials and errors, I stayed on 1/8th of a cynoplus at a time for a long time)
 

Vins7

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I think I now know how high metabolism should feel like. It's like when you're well fed and you have a cup of coffee with lots of sugar after. You feel warmer, pulse is higher, you feel in touch with earth / God, and you have good emotions about your life. You feel safe, balanced, with a lot of "potential energy" at your disposal.
Increasing calories from 3.2k to 4k seems to make a massive difference. I think this is all that I need to heal the thyroid.
I think I now know how high metabolism should feel like. It's like when you're well fed and you have a cup of coffee with lots of sugar after. You feel warmer, pulse is higher, you feel in touch with earth / God, and you have good emotions about your life. You feel safe, balanced, with a lot of "potential energy" at your disposal.
Increasing calories from 3.2k to 4k seems to make a massive difference. I think this is all that I need to heal the thyroid.
How do you eat so many calories without this affecting your digestion?
 
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GreekDemiGod

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@Vins7 Carrot salad, coffee and ACV before meals helps me with having regular bowel movements (2-3 / day), the bloating is still there
 

JKX

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I think the bloating is a sign of a bacterial issue which requires to be dealt with. Fixing the gut is paramount to ensure total healing in my experience.

I've tried cypro and it does have a positive effect on the gut, but I do not think it fixes the root cause. I think its more of a band aid (although a very affective one) that reduces the negative impacts of endotoxin on the system. In that sense it can be very helpful short term for a crisis, but I would not rely on it as a cure all for gut health.

There's a product called Megasporebiotic which I found very helpful. Danny Roddy has recommended it several times although I do not know Dr Peat's opinion. Soil based probiotics seem to be mixed on the opinion scale. Although that particular product has a few studies behind it, one showing an increase of butyrate production of up to 70% following treatment.

The ACV you're using is a good move IMO.

I've also used the prebiotic bimuno and small amounts of inulin and apple pectin. I think the bimuno product is effective and it closely mimics the function of what I think breast milk achieves in a new born. Allowing a predominantly bifidobacterial community to form in the gut that infers immunity and benefits to the host.

The inulin and apple pectin should increasing bacteria counts which predominantly produce the SCFAs such as acetate, butyrate and propionate. Shifting bacterial populations in favour of those that produce these SCFAs is likely to have a positive effect on gut barrier function and metabolism (there are a large amount of studies that infer this, a quick google search is all that's needed).

Conversely, I've also seen the studies that Haidut has posted showing prebiotics in a less than favourable light. This does not mirror my own experience, at least in the short term. The question over whether a microbiome is essential in humans remains unanswered and I don't have an answer to that, only my own personal experience.

I've seen quite a few posts on this forum regarding sterilizing the gut. Again, from personal experience, I'm not convinced that's the correct approach. I'm on board with the opinion that the stomach and upper intestines should be pretty much bacteria free, but I doubt that's achievable in the colon, or desirable. I've been exposed to hefty doses of IV antibiotics and although necessary at the time, the effect on my gut over the months that followed was anything but positive. That's probably as close to sterile as a human can get. Whether the effect was positive or negative is difficult to determine. Positive with respect to the infection I was dealing with...yes. Positive long term effects on gut health...no.

It was the above steps that allowed my gut to fully heal. I now have zero bloating and my digestion is great. Although it took a lot of trial and error.

I think that's the long winded point I'm making. It's just going to have to be a trial and error approach and it comes down trying something and judging the effects, probably over the course of at least a month before coming to a conclusion.
 

Vins7

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I think the bloating is a sign of a bacterial issue which requires to be dealt with. Fixing the gut is paramount to ensure total healing in my experience.

I've tried cypro and it does have a positive effect on the gut, but I do not think it fixes the root cause. I think its more of a band aid (although a very affective one) that reduces the negative impacts of endotoxin on the system. In that sense it can be very helpful short term for a crisis, but I would not rely on it as a cure all for gut health.

There's a product called Megasporebiotic which I found very helpful. Danny Roddy has recommended it several times although I do not know Dr Peat's opinion. Soil based probiotics seem to be mixed on the opinion scale. Although that particular product has a few studies behind it, one showing an increase of butyrate production of up to 70% following treatment.

The ACV you're using is a good move IMO.

I've also used the prebiotic bimuno and small amounts of inulin and apple pectin. I think the bimuno product is effective and it closely mimics the function of what I think breast milk achieves in a new born. Allowing a predominantly bifidobacterial community to form in the gut that infers immunity and benefits to the host.

The inulin and apple pectin should increasing bacteria counts which predominantly produce the SCFAs such as acetate, butyrate and propionate. Shifting bacterial populations in favour of those that produce these SCFAs is likely to have a positive effect on gut barrier function and metabolism (there are a large amount of studies that infer this, a quick google search is all that's needed).

Conversely, I've also seen the studies that Haidut has posted showing prebiotics in a less than favourable light. This does not mirror my own experience, at least in the short term. The question over whether a microbiome is essential in humans remains unanswered and I don't have an answer to that, only my own personal experience.

I've seen quite a few posts on this forum regarding sterilizing the gut. Again, from personal experience, I'm not convinced that's the correct approach. I'm on board with the opinion that the stomach and upper intestines should be pretty much bacteria free, but I doubt that's achievable in the colon, or desirable. I've been exposed to hefty doses of IV antibiotics and although necessary at the time, the effect on my gut over the months that followed was anything but positive. That's probably as close to sterile as a human can get. Whether the effect was positive or negative is difficult to determine. Positive with respect to the infection I was dealing with...yes. Positive long term effects on gut health...no.

It was the above steps that allowed my gut to fully heal. I now have zero bloating and my digestion is great. Although it took a lot of trial and error.

I think that's the long winded point I'm making. It's just going to have to be a trial and error approach and it comes down trying something and judging the effects, probably over the course of at least a month before coming to a conclusion.
Do you think that a Stool microbiota analysis could be interesting to assess how is the intestinal environment or is it a waste of money? in my case the problem has been chronic for some years.
So, for good bacteria what are the main foods for eating? Fruits, roots and vegetables?
 
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GreekDemiGod

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@Vins7 Vegetables (fibrous) are the worst for digestion, at least that was for me. Not only it gave me painful bloating, but constipated me on top of that, I would have like 5 bowel movements / week. Bananas are also nasty, unless they're very well ripe.
 

Vins7

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@Vins7 Vegetables (fibrous) are the worst for digestion, at least that was for me. Not only it gave me painful bloating, but constipated me on top of that, I would have like 5 bowel movements / week. Bananas are also nasty, unless they're very well ripe.
The same for me with vegetables, how they come in, they come out.
Tha question is why and How to fix It...
In my Lactulose test for sibo, both hydrogen and methane are negative, but I have all the symptoms ...
 

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