A Realisation - Why Doesn't Every Teenage Boy Have Prostate Cancer ?

johnwester130

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if DHT damages the prostate

How do the medical industry and scientists explain this ?
 

Dante

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if DHT damages the prostate

How do the medical industry and scientists explain this ?
Genetic sensitivity for balding - so they say. A dude who once appeared for a while on this forum said even young people who died due to other causes after biopsies were found to have prostate cancer(search the forum , you might find his post, he had some valid points though)
 

haidut

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Genetic sensitivity for balding - so they say. A dude who once appeared for a while on this forum said even young people who died due to other causes after biopsies were found to have prostate cancer(search the forum , you might find his post, he had some valid points though)

Every male over the age of 30 likely has some form of prostate cancer. It is estrogen-driven not androgen-. Just because something makes your prostate grow does not make it cancerous. Cancer is always preceded by atrophy in the tissue, which in the prostate is done by estrogen, not androgens. Androgens make the prostate, gonads, and seminal vesicles grow - i.e. it is a healthy, well-differentiated hypertrophy. I have never seen such a twisted version of reality being sold - i.e. we have to castrate men to save them from disease.
As far as the realization you reached - I have brought this up to every urologist I know. The reaction I get, if they are friendly enough to not dismiss me outright, is either angry huff or exasperation/confusion like in the picture below.
lebowski.jpg


You want another realization? Approach any psychiatrist and say that lithium can treat ALL psychiatric disorders and its only accepted mechanism of action is metabolic (restores brain mitochondrial function). So, are all mood disorders metabolic disorders? I had one doctor acquaintance reach for his Prozac while choking on his salad and another one who said I should not be volunteering this information publicly is I want to ever be employable by any company. Two others had not even heard of lithium used for anything beyond bipolar disorder and the fifth one said "what is lithium?".
 

tankasnowgod

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You want another realization? Approach any psychiatrist and say that lithium can treat ALL psychiatric disorders and its only accepted mechanism of action is metabolic (restores brain mitochondrial function). So, are all mood disorders metabolic disorders?

Really? ALL disorders? That's impressive.

I have found that a glass of orange juice or soda will quickly elevate my mood after a long or tough day. Seriously, within 15 minutes. Would Lithium also be useful when under stress, or during a demanding mental project?
 

Risingfire

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Every male over the age of 30 likely has some form of prostate cancer. It is estrogen-driven not androgen-. Just because something makes your prostate grow does not make it cancerous. Cancer is always preceded by atrophy in the tissue, which in the prostate is done by estrogen, not androgens. Androgens make the prostate, gonads, and seminal vesicles grow - i.e. it is a healthy, well-differentiated hypertrophy. I have never seen such a twisted version of reality being sold - i.e. we have to castrate men to save them from disease.
As far as the realization you reached - I have brought this up to every urologist I know. The reaction I get, if they are friendly enough to not dismiss me outright, is either angry huff or exasperation/confusion like in the picture below.
View attachment 4735

You want another realization? Approach any psychiatrist and say that lithium can treat ALL psychiatric disorders and its only accepted mechanism of action is metabolic (restores brain mitochondrial function). So, are all mood disorders metabolic disorders? I had one doctor acquaintance reach for his Prozac while choking on his salad and another one who said I should not be volunteering this information publicly is I want to ever be employable by any company. Two others had not even heard of lithium used for anything beyond bipolar disorder and the fifth one said "what is lithium?".
Do you think it's possible lithium would correct a slow brain and/or stutters? Or am I reaching too much with the statement above?
 

haidut

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Really? ALL disorders? That's impressive.

I have found that a glass of orange juice or soda will quickly elevate my mood after a long or tough day. Seriously, within 15 minutes. Would Lithium also be useful when under stress, or during a demanding mental project?

Yes, ALL of them. It used to be the primary drug for "nervous" disorders about 100 years ago. Much like aspirin. Have a fit? Take lithium and call me in 2 weeks. Random outbursts at your family members or feeling murderous rage at the smallest provocation? Take lithium and call me in 2 weeks. Memory not working so well? Take lithium and call me in 2 weeks.

Lithium is to optimize cell functioning in the brain. They still need fuel, so sugar is needed. In micro doses (mcg to 5mg) lithium can have cognitive boosting effects. In those small doses it also doubled lifespan in animals. They found that after lithium was removed from groundwater in a few Texas towns that actually track of citizen lifespan, lifespan dropped 30% - 30% and all centenarians disappeared.
 
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"The mechanism for this is not fully understood but current theories include alterations of the AR gene, coregulator proteins and/or signal transduction pathways."

Great example of the vanity of scientists...we aren't just flat wrong, we are right even in our wrongness.

Nah not vanity, but arrogance, their confidence in their beliefs is too high (but everyone has that problem.)

Most seem thoroughly convinced.

Or maybe they know they're wrong but are unable to do anything if they want to keep their jobs.

There's definitely a conspiracy :unamused: not as if that wasn't already obvious.
 

haidut

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"...This phenomenon is called antiandrogen withdrawal syndrome (AWS) and is one of the major drawbacks of existing antiandrogens. AWS is defined as tumor regression or symptomatic relief observed upon discontinuation of the antiandrogen therapy. The mechanism for this is not fully understood but current theories include alterations of the AR gene, coregulator proteins and/or signal transduction pathways. This antiandrogen resistance may also be linked to the relative weakness of current antiandrogens as they have an affinity 50 times or more lower than that of DHT for the AR. This may also explain why compensatory AR overexpression is often observed."

You missed the most important quote! So, the drugs that were supposed to cure the cancer get it to the point that it only grows when you give those drugs and stops growing or disappears (regression) when you stop giving these drugs!?!?
I think this needs to be a sticky on the front page of the forum or something. I may have to stop seeing even my PCP. The thing we call "medicine" today is fraud and stupidity at an inhuman level.
Hey, @Dante - do you want to chime in? So, thus far we have that intra-prostatic therapy with T stops prostate cancer and withdrawal of anti-androgen therapy also stops prostate cancer. I am curious what explanation you can offer now. I am just waiting on the human trial with DHT stopping prostate cancer or MPB and then we can all go home. And @Drareg, you may get a kick out of this too.
 
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Too be honest I'm not even sure this has much to do with androgens.

It depends on what causes "anti-androgen withdrawal syndrome".

If anti-androgen withdrawal syndrome (AAWS) is caused only by AR antagonists, then I don't think it has much to do with androgens.

If AAWS is caused not only by AR antagonists, but also by chemicals that inhibit androgen synthesis, then I think androgens play an important part.

But the wiki page that talks about AAWS only mentions AR antagonists, not androgen synthesis inhibitors.

Let's take a look at some of the anti-androgens that wiki mentions.

To me, the "paradoxical" reaction to AR antagonists has more to do with the fact that the main AR antagonists used are halogenated flourine clusterfucks.

That can't be good for the parts of the body which exhibit AR and are thus exposed to high levels of these chemicals.

Funnily enough, AR antagonists also raise testosterone and estrogen, because of the feedback loop (the body senses low androgenic tone and thus increases productions of androgens)

Maybe that has something to do with it as well.

Androgen synthesis inhibitors not only lower testosterone, but estrogen as well.

AR antagonists raise both.

I'll say it like this: I think a large part of the withdrawal has to do with the chemicals that block AR. The lack of androgen signaling probably has a part to play as well.

I am always on the look-out for red-herrings and misdirection.

I hope this makes sense.
 

haidut

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Too be honest I'm not even sure this has much to do with androgens.

It depends on what causes "anti-androgen withdrawal syndrome".

If anti-androgen withdrawal syndrome (AAWS) is caused only by AR antagonists, then I don't think it has much to do with androgens.

If AAWS is caused not only by AR antagonists, but also by chemicals that inhibit androgen synthesis, then I think androgens play an important part.

But the wiki page that talks about AAWS only mentions AR antagonists, not androgen synthesis inhibitors.

Let's take a look at some of the anti-androgens that wiki mentions.

To me, the "paradoxical" reaction to AR antagonists has more to do with the fact that the main AR antagonists used are halogenated flourine clusterfucks.

That can't be good for the parts of the body which exhibit AR and are thus exposed to high levels of these chemicals.

Funnily enough, AR antagonists also raise testosterone and estrogen, because of the feedback loop (the body senses low androgenic tone and thus increases productions of androgens)

Maybe that has something to do with it as well.

Androgen synthesis inhibitors not only lower testosterone, but estrogen as well.

AR antagonists raise both.

I'll say it like this: I think a large part of the withdrawal has to do with the chemicals that block AR. The lack of androgen signaling probably has a part to play as well.

I am always on the look-out for red-herrings and misdirection.

I hope this makes sense.

Actually, it is precisely the negative effects of AR antagonists that implicate androgens as being protective. The androgen synthesis inhibitors in use clinically are mostly 5-AR inhibitors like finasteride and dutasteride so they mostly reduce availability of DHT. But something like flutamide (AR antagonist) will block the effects of all androgens, including weak ones like DHEA, androstenedione, and androstenediol as well as less commonly considred ones like androstanediol and androstanedione.
 

Ron J

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@haidut "restores brain mitochondrial function"
Does it have any permanent effects? What type or which product is good?
 

haidut

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@haidut "restores brain mitochondrial function"
Does it have any permanent effects? What type or which product is good?

As user @Such_Saturation posted long time ago, and maybe can find the study again, lithium kills the brain cells with mitochondria damages beyond repair. It also chelates ammonia and improves function of ETC complxes I, II, and IV. Nothing is permanent, but it definitely reverses the pathology as old lithium protocols did not last a lifetime. The longest one was 3 months I think and most were a few weeks long and then the treatment stopped.
 
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Actually, it is precisely the negative effects of AR antagonists that implicate androgens as being protective. The androgen synthesis inhibitors in use clinically are mostly 5-AR inhibitors like finasteride and dutasteride so they mostly reduce availability of DHT. But something like flutamide (AR antagonist) will block the effects of all androgens, including weak ones like DHEA, androstenedione, and androstenediol as well as less commonly considred ones like androstanediol and androstanedione.

I'm saying that the substances used to antagonise AR could also have a part to play in AAWS.

By androgen synthesis inhibitors I meant things like synthetic progestins or anti-gonadotropins, that block sex hormone production at the source.
 

haidut

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I'm saying that the substances used to antagonise AR could also have a part to play in AAWS.

By androgen synthesis inhibitors I meant things like synthetic progestins or anti-gonadotropins, that block sex hormone production at the source.

Anti-gonadotropins are not used in prostate cancer AFAIK. The progestins currently in use are actually (majority) derivatives of 19-nortestosterone, ethyltestosterone, or ethyniltestosterone. So, they are androgenic in addition to the progesterone agonism. So, while they may cause pituitary suppression (LH/FSH) they have potent androgenic effects of their own which cannot be ignored even though their main effect is progestogenic. The most potent AAS to date is THG, which is one of those synthetic progestins.
So, the only true androgen antagonists in clinical use are flutamide, bicalutamide, and enzalutamide.
 

DaveFoster

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It takes many years to develop a noticeable form of cancer, and prostate cancer has a relatively high survival rate. It's just not a very good argument.

I had one doctor acquaintance reach for his Prozac while choking on his salad
Well this explains. Certainly not a carrot salad.
 

haidut

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It takes many years to develop a noticeable form of cancer, and prostate cancer has a relatively high survival rate. It's just not a very good argument.

Well this explains. Certainly not a carrot salad.

Not the high-grade aggressive prostate cancer though. It is almost always highly "androgen-sensitive" and develops from a lump the size of pinhead to the size of golf ball within 6 months, and kills within a year or two regardless of treatmen (mostly due to wasting). So, those types should be seen in the the younger males. But argument on MPB is certainly valid - young males should be the ones most hardly hit.
 
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As user @Such_Saturation posted long time ago, and maybe can find the study again, lithium kills the brain cells with mitochondria damages beyond repair. It also chelates ammonia and improves function of ETC complxes I, II, and IV. Nothing is permanent, but it definitely reverses the pathology as old lithium protocols did not last a lifetime. The longest one was 3 months I think and most were a few weeks long and then the treatment stopped.

I think it was this one: https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/lithium-makes-the-weaker-mithochondria-die-off.4169/
 

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