A Possible Clue As To Why Tocotrienols May Be Harmful

[DaveFoster]

Interesting. I wonder how often and how much Peat doses vitamin E. I personally avoid taking any supplement on a daily basis.

He doesn't take any. He generally recommends 400 IU once per week.

 

[Mjhl85]

Interesting. I wonder how often and how much Peat doses vitamin E. I personally avoid taking any supplement on a daily basis.

Yea it would be a good question since context is important regarding the amount. I think dosing like 1000 iu or greater every day could cause problems.

 

[BigChad]

also found this, according to thorne "Tocotrienols exist naturally in mixed tocopherols. However, they are not tested for and thus are not listed on the label. They are better suited for topical creams because they are poorly assimilated by digestion, are poorly distributed to tissues in blood and are rapidly metabolized and eliminated from the body"
according to this even the tocopherol products on the market could contain any number of tocotrienols but they would not need to be mentioned on the label or tested for? if theyre poorly assimilated by digestion and rapidly eliminated would that mean they are toxic, or at the least, have no benefit to taking? i also read on here that gamma tocopherol is beneficial in part due to how quickly it is excreted

 

[BigChad]

As we all know Ray does not like the tocotrienol members of the vitamin E family and does not recommend supplementing with them. He said something along the lines of tocotrienols being unsaturated and that unsaturatedness causing liver enlargement in animal studies. It looks like Ray is once again on the right track. This study claims that the unsaturatedness of tocotrienols interferes with the function of vitamin K2 (MK-4, menatetrenone), which would explain the liver enlargement since MK-4 is so protective of liver function.

Mechanisms for the prevention of vitamin E excess

"...The α-tocopheroxyl radical is relatively long-lived (178), and it can be reduced to α-tocopherol by water-soluble antioxidants, such as ascorbic acid (179). Other forms of vitamin E, when they become radicals, are more reactive and can readily form adducts that are potentially cytotoxic. The safety of α-tocopherol can also be inferred from the relative lack of specific mechanisms for its metabolism. The other non-α-tocopherol forms are readily metabolized by xenobiotic pathways, likely because these forms are not effective as antioxidants and therefore should be removed promptly from the body. The tocotrienols may be a special case, because the unsaturated tail potentially could interfere with MK-4’s role in carboxylating vitamin K-dependent proteins in tissues."

Perhaps equally importantly, the above study makes a strong argument that some of the tocopherols are also not entirely safe. In other words, ONLY alpha tocopherol is the isomer the body has a use for, and that the other tocopherol isomers (gamma, beta and delta tocopherols) may be toxic. This is backed up by the fact that the tocopherol isomers other than alpha are metabolized by xenobiotic pathways and quickly excreted, suggesting the body sees them as poison. Here is the study from reference [180] above that digs deeper into the tocopherol issue.

Mechanism of arylating quinone toxicity involving Michael adduct formation and induction of endoplasmic reticulum stress

Thoughts?

@haidut I wanted to ask you if mixed tocotrienols are taken along with an equivalent amount of mixed tocopherols, plus an additional amount of alpha tocopherol on top of that, would that combination be enough to nullify any estrogen issues from the tocotrienols?
Like nutrigolds vitamin e gold product, has 30mg of alpha tocopherol, then 40mg mixed tocopherols and 40mg mixed tocotrienols. Would the tocopherols cancel out the tocotrienols and lead to a net positive effect? I like the product since it has olive oil in the capsule and sources the E from sunflower and red palm.
It seems like it could be 90% sunflower 10% palm based on how they listed it though

 

[haidut]

@haidut I wanted to ask you if mixed tocotrienols are taken along with an equivalent amount of mixed tocopherols, plus an additional amount of alpha tocopherol on top of that, would that combination be enough to nullify any estrogen issues from the tocotrienols?
Like nutrigolds vitamin e gold product, has 30mg of alpha tocopherol, then 40mg mixed tocopherols and 40mg mixed tocotrienols. Would the tocopherols cancel out the tocotrienols and lead to a net positive effect? I like the product since it has olive oil in the capsule and sources the E from sunflower and red palm.
It seems like it could be 90% sunflower 10% palm based on how they listed it though

It may be, but we simply do not know enough about the other effects of tocotrienols. So, I won't assume just adding enough of the saturated isomers (tocopherols) will prevent all damage from the tocotrienols.

 

[stsfut]

I just got Vit E but it is Tocotrienols instead of Tocopherel (oversight); is it still general consensus that this is toxic? Product is Toco-Sorb by Jarrow. Trying to slim my liver. Thanks

 

[golder]

I just got Vit E but it is Tocotrienols instead of Tocopherel (oversight); is it still general consensus that this is toxic? Product is Toco-Sorb by Jarrow. Trying to slim my liver. Thanks

Bump. Got a few bottles of Tocosorb left, wondering if the tocotreinols in it are safe?

 

[RealNeat]

I just got Vit E but it is Tocotrienols instead of Tocopherel (oversight); is it still general consensus that this is toxic? Product is Toco-Sorb by Jarrow. Trying to slim my liver. Thanks

I'd avoid Jarrow. I don't think they are a honest or quality company. They may source some quality ingredients but they bastardize them with fillers and excipients. Not to mention unnecessary markups in price.

 

[golder]

I'd avoid Jarrow. I don't think they are a honest or quality company. They may source some quality ingredients but they bastardize them with fillers and excipients. Not to mention unnecessary markups in price.

Fair point, thank you. I’ll ditch the Tocosorb. Are there any good capsule/soft gel sources of Vitamin E left?!

 

[Wolfy]

Fair point, thank you. I’ll ditch the Tocosorb. Are there any good capsule/soft gel sources of Vitamin E left?!

Any update mate? I'm also after a good supplement which provides efficient and good quality Vitamin E. I would buy TocoVit from ideallabs although not living in the US makes it expensive for me to purchase per month, so need an alternative.

 

[Ynot]

Hmmmm I'm late to the party and I've been taking Tocosorb for about 2 years... 1 a day. This was after watching a Chris Masterjohn video on how it should help deplete pufas. So what's the recommended vitamin E, if any? I have and use Progest-e too