A Piece Of Dough Can Learn Just Like Animals And Humans

[haidut]

Like graphene oxide?

Yes, and probably many other "inanimate" molecules. Peat said in one interview that even the simplest of particles such as electrons have "memory" (hysteresis) so it is not surprising that complex materials composed of many molecules would have that property as well.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Yes, and probably many other "inanimate" molecules. Peat said in one interview that even the simplest of particles such as electrons have "memory" (hysteresis) so it is not surprising that complex materials composed of many molecules would have that property as well.

This is fascinating. Memory does not equal thought though, do you think?

 

[haidut]

Memory does not equal thought though, do you think?

Yep, memory != thought. Memory is basically structure while thought and perception are in the form of electron flow and over time that flow builds structure (memory).

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Yep, memory != thought. Memory is basically structure while thought and perception are in the form of electron flow and over time that flow builds structure (memory).

I am having trouble wrapping my head around this. I would think this “dough” kind of memory would be more like ants following the chemical trail that they put out before. So the memory of an inanimate object would be more to an attraction to residual energy, rather than a problem solving type thinking.

 

[gunther]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEeSrdK883s

 

[Regina]

Yep, memory != thought. Memory is basically structure while thought and perception are in the form of electron flow and over time that flow builds structure (memory).

Cool.
That's what I'll wrap my head around in the garden today.

 

[haidut]

I am having trouble wrapping my head around this. I would think this “dough” kind of memory would be more like ants following the chemical trail that they put out before. So the memory of an inanimate object would be more to an attraction to residual energy, rather than a problem solving type thinking.

Well, they said the structure of the dough was changed as a result of the stimulation (i.e. energy flow, which is electron flow in the case of human brain) and the structure (memory) persisted for a while despite removal of the stimulus. The ability to learn / form memories is driven by a difference in (electrical) potential between an organism and its environment, which is in the case of humans is determined by intensity of metabolism. The better metabolism works the more difference in potential and the more energy there is to expend to build structure/memory through interaction with the environment. The less energy produced, the more the organism is thermodynamically similar to its surroundings - i.e. so there is not much to "learn". The extreme case of this is death = no potential difference between organism and its environment and as such no action, learning, memory, etc that can occur.
Here is Peat's explanation, which also ties in food and CO2.

Ray's summary / intro to his philosophy - I've listened to this so many times because it's explained so nicely

Ray on intro to this whole energy-structure worldview View: https://youtu.be/T6NvwqEE8Is?t=273 Proteins: the basic substance of life They are acidic, which means electron withdrawing and proton releasing, because of the high content of oxygen atoms on the polymers (proteins) This creates a...

raypeatforum.com

 

[Regina]

Well, they said the structure of the dough was changed as a result of the stimulation (i.e. energy flow, which is electron flow in the case of human brain) and the structure (memory) persisted for a while despite removal of the stimulus. The ability to learn / form memories is driven by a difference in (electrical) potential between an organism and its environment, which is in the case of humans is determined by intensity of metabolism. The better metabolism works the more difference in potential and the more energy there is to expend to build structure/memory through interaction with the environment. The less energy produced, the more the organism is thermodynamically similar to its surroundings - i.e. so there is not much to "learn". The extreme case of this is death = no potential difference between organism and its environment and as such no action, learning, memory, etc that can occur.
Here is Peat's explanation, which also ties in food and CO2.

Ray's summary / intro to his philosophy - I've listened to this so many times because it's explained so nicely

Ray on intro to this whole energy-structure worldview View: https://youtu.be/T6NvwqEE8Is?t=273 Proteins: the basic substance of life They are acidic, which means electron withdrawing and proton releasing, because of the high content of oxygen atoms on the polymers (proteins) This creates a...

raypeatforum.com

I guess this is why children are such fast learners.
So when an adult has acquired vast amount of "memory", but the energetic state is not keeping up, they can no longer access it or cope with minor changes?
I'll use my neighborhood (with many retirees) as a example.
I call for fiber upgrade to my residence. Wire 3 comes out and trenches prior to turning it on.
The retirees have meltdowns and can not cope with a change in their graveyard.
Desperate cries, "what's going on?!" Up in arms for weeks.
There is also an inability to cope with foliage that moves in the wind--preferring a stiff and static unchanging picture.

They must have been able to adapt well enough to life in their working years to have amassed enough money to retire. That took perception and action.

The less energy state is on scary display.

Yet, these people go on for decades like this. It is really not apparent visually. They have hair and often eyebrows and sporty looking leisure wear. I still struggle with that.
No one seems to have vax injury. Many of the same people have been here for 40+ years. Eating pufa, taking pharma scripts, get flu shots and covid boosters. The degradation isn't that apparent only UNTIL you witness their inability to cope with minor change.

 

[haidut]

I guess this is why children are such fast learners.
So when an adult has acquired vast amount of "memory", but the energetic state is not keeping up, they can no longer access it or cope with minor changes?
I'll use my neighborhood (with many retirees) as a example.
I call for fiber upgrade to my residence. Wire 3 comes out and trenches prior to turning it on.
The retirees have meltdowns and can not cope with a change in their graveyard.
Desperate cries, "what's going on?!" Up in arms for weeks.
There is also an inability to cope with foliage that moves in the wind--preferring a stiff and static unchanging picture.

They must have been able to adapt well enough to life in their working years to have amassed enough money to retire. That took perception and action.

The less energy state is on scary display.

Yet, these people go on for decades like this. It is really not apparent visually. They have hair and often eyebrows and sporty looking leisure wear. I still struggle with that.
No one seems to have vax injury. Many of the same people have been here for 40+ years. Eating pufa, taking pharma scripts, get flu shots and covid boosters. The degradation isn't that apparent only UNTIL you witness their inability to cope with minor change.

Yep, pretty much. When a change in the environment occurs, the consciousness of the observer will attempt to "orient" itself and adapt to the change. That is, if the observer is engaged with reality. If the energy levels are not there, the change triggers the release of stress hormones to provide emergency energy, and those can allow limited adaptation/orientation but with the price of anger, aggressiveness and even violence (if the change is so big it feels threatening). Serotonin, when high enough, turns off the ability to engage with change around us, which is probably why doctors and the govt love SSRI so much. Have people drugged out of their minds on those drugs and they won't notice if a bomb exploded next door, or at the very least will shrug it off and go on about their business. Same with things like hunger, pain, etc. Everything becomes insignificant when on an SSRI.
Most people who are given SSRI when visiting the psychiatrist the first time are in this state of suboptimal, but still functioning, adaptive response and it plays perfectly into the doctor's hand since the "patient" is angry, agitated, and generally negative about life...and all of that is likely justified. As a reminder, psychiatry officially designates realism as moderate-to-severe depression. So, the doctor takes one look in his/her DSM V and says "ah, all the symptoms of depression. here is your SSRI and it will make it all go away".

 

[Regina]

Yep, pretty much. When a change in the environment occurs, the consciousness of the observer will attempt to "orient" itself and adapt to the change. That is, if the observer is engaged with reality. If the energy levels are not there, the change triggers the release of stress hormones to provide emergency energy, and those can allow limited adaptation/orientation but with the price of anger, aggressiveness and even violence (if the change is so big it feels threatening). Serotonin, when high enough, turns off the ability to engage with change around us, which is probably why doctors and the govt love SSRI so much. Have people drugged out of their minds on those drugs and they won't notice if a bomb exploded next door, or at the very least will shrug it off and go on about their business. Same with things like hunger, pain, etc. Everything becomes insignificant when on an SSRI.
Most people who are given SSRI when visiting the psychiatrist the first time are in this state of suboptimal, but still functioning, adaptive response and it plays perfectly into the doctor's hand since the "patient" is angry, agitated, and generally negative about life...and all of that is likely justified. As a reminder, psychiatry officially designates realism as moderate-to-severe depression. So, the doctor takes one look in his/her DSM V and says "ah, all the symptoms of depression. here is your SSRI and it will make it all go away".

It's hilarious that you said that a bomb could go off next door and they wouldn't notice.
That is exactly what happened with hurricane Ian.
While I Iooked over the vast lake, a dozen downed trees and annihilated garden in my yard, my neighbor walked up behind me and flatly said 'we had to turn our TV up last night'.
He literally only had his own "perspective" of change in his bubble.
It's freaky to behold.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Well, they said the structure of the dough was changed as a result of the stimulation (i.e. energy flow, which is electron flow in the case of human brain) and the structure (memory) persisted for a while despite removal of the stimulus. The ability to learn / form memories is driven by a difference in (electrical) potential between an organism and its environment, which is in the case of humans is determined by intensity of metabolism. The better metabolism works the more difference in potential and the more energy there is to expend to build structure/memory through interaction with the environment. The less energy produced, the more the organism is thermodynamically similar to its surroundings - i.e. so there is not much to "learn". The extreme case of this is death = no potential difference between organism and its environment and as such no action, learning, memory, etc that can occur.
Here is Peat's explanation, which also ties in food and CO2.

Ray's summary / intro to his philosophy - I've listened to this so many times because it's explained so nicely

Ray on intro to this whole energy-structure worldview View: https://youtu.be/T6NvwqEE8Is?t=273 Proteins: the basic substance of life They are acidic, which means electron withdrawing and proton releasing, because of the high content of oxygen atoms on the polymers (proteins) This creates a...

raypeatforum.com

Thanks for taking the time to explain, I am gonna have to ponder this for sure. What a mind blower.