A Paradox In Society

[Tarmander]

I have been thinking a bit about this lately and wanted to throw it up here as some thought amusement. Feel free to comment, disagree, whatever.

There is a paradox in our society around the desires of its people, and the means of getting those things. The desires can be grouped into a few different broad categories, but on a detailed level are almost infinite. People want cars, good jobs, relationships, kids, money, houses, travel, experiences, power, control, health...you name it someone probably wants it. The big one around here is health. Some people have lost it and want it back, some are in the process of losing it and want to halt that, some have it and want more of it, and the list goes on.

Now the means to get all these things, from what I have seen, all prevent you from actually enjoying these things, which is the paradox. I am sure this is not a surprise to anyone, but some of the people with the most "stuff" enjoy it the least, and are the most miserable people on the planet. I drove around a couple months ago with a guy who used to be a pharma sales rep. He said without a doubt the most miserable, "assholeish," unhappy people are doctors. They are constantly sold to, must toe the AMA line or get booted, have huge amounts of debt, and work with sick people all the time. Yet from a societal point of view, they have money, nice things, nice places to live, good looking spouses...all the stuff you could want!

My point is, in our society, to get the good stuff, you must lower your metabolism through stress, living under some type of authority, debt slavery, or what have you. This lowering of metabolism makes everything just so much less...satisfying. A great example of this is in my own dating life. I have noticed that skinny women who do way too much endurance exercise enjoy sex the least and have the least amount of personality to offer, despite being on the so called top of the totem pole. They may have their choice of a great relationship, but they aren't very satisfied and express this by being "picky." Now, say they gained some weight and upped their metabolism...they might be more interested in a relationship, but their rank, or whatever, has fallen, and it becomes harder to find one.

A good contrast for this satisfaction thing would be a child and an unhappy old person. The child's metabolism is so high, and it can enjoy almost anything. Give it a piece of string and it will enjoy it. The unhappy old person could have access to all the best that entertainment has to offer, large amounts of money and things, and yet a nuclear bomb would have to go off for their pulse to rise two blips at all. I think this is part of why there is so much dissatisfaction out there. People work hard to get what they think will satisfy them, and in the process remove their ability to be satisfied.

 

[sm1693]

Folks like you and I will be the stimulus to societal change when we teach our kids to only value happiness and all things fun over all things difficult and lame.

The serotonergic thinking behind it is that just existing and being happy can't possibly be satisfying. But, then of course, just existing isn't satisfying when you are filled with serotonin. Serotonin-filled people are driven to do something/anything to bring relief...

It's also kinda ironic that Peat has clearly been fueled by serotonin for most of his life as evidenced by his early health problems. But, it is this serotonin that has created probably the greatest line-of-reasoning a single man has ever created.

PS: methylene blue sucks, I'm in quite the serotonergic mood at the moment or I wouldn't be posting, I'd be out having fun somewhere.

 

[DaveFoster]

I enjoyed the direction of your post. Serotonin exists for a reason. The entire sympathetic nervous systems exists for a very necessary reason; scarcity. It's not all rainbows and wet dreams in the world. The food runs out, people choose to consume instead of produce, and then people become entitled to life.

If we think about a parasympathetic, healthy, non-stressed metabolism as running at 100% efficiency, and we contrast this to a sympathetic, stressed metabolism running at 120% efficiency, of course those who run the latter will achieve more, in the short-term at least.

It's like in high school you have two kinds of people; you have the people who smoke weed, drink, party, and social network constantly who basically burn up their credits, and then you have the other people who may indulge in these activities somewhat, but they dedicate their focus to growth and achievement; the people who invest for the long-term, rather than the short-term.

Or you can use the example of a teenage steroid user who abuses his body to get short-term anabolic growth while his friends are just plugging along as natty's, and then when his 40s comes around, he's out of luck. You really have to understand that you can have both; you can have success and happiness, but you need to know the secrets. That's where underground aces like Ray Peat comes into play.

 

[tobieagle]

post 119051
My point is, in our society, to get the good stuff, you must lower your metabolism through stress, living under some type of authority, debt slavery, or what have you. This lowering of metabolism makes everything just so much less...satisfying. A great example of this is in my own dating life. I have noticed that skinny women who do way too much endurance exercise enjoy sex the least and have the least amount of personality to offer, despite being on the so called top of the totem pole. They may have their choice of a great relationship, but they aren't very satisfied and express this by being "picky." Now, say they gained some weight and upped their metabolism...they might be more interested in a relationship, but their rank, or whatever, has fallen, and it becomes harder to find one.

I think the whole idea that you need the "good stuff" to be happy is just a believe in the first place, implanted in our brains at an early age to ensure compliance later on.
I admire people who managed to get completely rid of this indoctrination. Ray is one of them.

 

[James_001]

I enjoyed the direction of your post. Serotonin exists for a reason. The entire sympathetic nervous systems exists for a very necessary reason; scarcity. It's not all rainbows and wet dreams in the world. The food runs out, people choose to consume instead of produce, and then people become entitled to life.

If we think about a parasympathetic, healthy, non-stressed metabolism as running at 100% efficiency, and we contrast this to a sympathetic, stressed metabolism running at 120% efficiency, of course those who run the latter will achieve more, in the short-term at least.

It's like in high school you have two kinds of people; you have the people who smoke weed, drink, party, and social network constantly who basically burn up their credits, and then you have the other people who may indulge in these activities somewhat, but they dedicate their focus to growth and achievement; the people who invest for the long-term, rather than the short-term.

Or you can use the example of a teenage steroid user who abuses his body to get short-term anabolic growth while his friends are just plugging along as natty's, and then when his 40s comes around, he's out of luck. You really have to understand that you can have both; you can have success and happiness, but you need to know the secrets. That's where underground aces like Ray Peat comes into play.

What about guys like frank zane who used steroids almost all his life and are fine......

He is 70 something now

 

[Integral]

I definitely get the sentiment of this post.

I find myself saying that we as humans are not really that advanced a species. Yes we have built all these planes and sent things into space but our understandings of science are possibly deeply contradictory - our science itself is institutionally situated and hierarchical. It becomes much more ideological, rather than an expression of free enquiry.

I question whether we really are a higher species. If you observe baboons in the wild like Robert Sapolsky has for 40 years, he will tell you they actually draw many parallels to humans.

Our cars and clothes mask our own pathetic ignorance. Our economic systems are driven towards ever increasing accumulation, entrenching deeper and deeper individualisation and constructing a new neoliberal individual who's meaning and purpose in life is obfuscated by consumerism.

We are really nothing more than scrubbed up chimps.

 

[DaveFoster]

What about guys like frank zane who used steroids almost all his life and are fine......

He is 70 something now

What about guys like Blade Runner who lost their legs and became one of the fastest runners ever?

We don't judge based on outliers. Take the guys that have ALS as your consequences of steroid abuse.

 

[James_001]

post 119297

What about guys like frank zane who used steroids almost all his life and are fine......

He is 70 something now

What about guys like Blade Runner who lost their legs and became one of the fastest runners ever?

We don't judge based on outliers. Take the guys that have ALS as your consequences of steroid abuse.

Who are these people? seriously, I am not trolling I just don't know of anyone that has used AAS and was harmed as a consequence. Zyzz doesn't count as he abused recreational drugs and alcohol, and eat like ***t as well as using AAS. Same thing applies to guys like jeff seid....

 

[Integral]

post 119300

post 119297

What about guys like frank zane who used steroids almost all his life and are fine......

He is 70 something now

What about guys like Blade Runner who lost their legs and became one of the fastest runners ever?

We don't judge based on outliers. Take the guys that have ALS as your consequences of steroid abuse.

Who are these people? seriously, I am not trolling I just don't know of anyone that has used AAS and was harmed as a consequence. Zyzz doesn't count as he abused recreational drugs and alcohol, and eat like s*** as well as using AAS. Same thing applies to guys like jeff seid....

Bro with all due respect just because you don't know anyone in your personal life who's not been harmed by roiding doesn't really mean that much. For example, I used to compete in powerlifting and happened to train at a serious powerlifting gym. The guys in that gym knew all the big name lifters on a personal level. They drank beers with them etc. I can honestly say I have witnessed many, many people have their lives ruined by steroids. I don't want to name any names but some of the best and most famous powerlifters in my country are now awaiting kidney transplants. One of them is on dialysis which is ******* sad as he was at one point the best powerlifter in the world and will go down in history.

In my opinion wanting to use steroids is not a very wise decision. I don't think they're inherently dangerous, but equally the sort of attitude people now have around steroids after watching films like Bigger, Faster, Stronger (funnily enough I have met Mark Bell and trained in his gym for four weeks, he is a very cool dude) are very misleading.

***t like having a lot of muscle mass and being able to lift heavy weights doesn't really mean **** if you're stressed/obsessed and unhappy in the pursuit of those things. You reference Frank Zane but imo Frank is the sort of person who could do well with that lifestyle, he seems very relaxed, carefree and grounded. Most people in Western societies are not really in the same bracket and would do far better to let go of that bull**** and try and find another way....

 

[James_001]

post 119314

post 119300

post 119297

What about guys like frank zane who used steroids almost all his life and are fine......

He is 70 something now

What about guys like Blade Runner who lost their legs and became one of the fastest runners ever?

We don't judge based on outliers. Take the guys that have ALS as your consequences of steroid abuse.

Who are these people? seriously, I am not trolling I just don't know of anyone that has used AAS and was harmed as a consequence. Zyzz doesn't count as he abused recreational drugs and alcohol, and eat like s*** as well as using AAS. Same thing applies to guys like jeff seid....

Bro with all due respect just because you don't know anyone in your personal life who's not been harmed by roiding doesn't really mean that much. For example, I used to compete in powerlifting and happened to train at a serious powerlifting gym. The guys in that gym knew all the big name lifters on a personal level. They drank beers with them etc. I can honestly say I have witnessed many, many people have their lives ruined by steroids. I don't want to name any names but some of the best and most famous powerlifters in my country are now awaiting kidney transplants. One of them is on dialysis which is f***ing sad as he was at one point the best powerlifter in the world and will go down in history.

In my opinion wanting to use steroids is not a very wise decision. I don't think they're inherently dangerous, but equally the sort of attitude people now have around steroids after watching films like Bigger, Faster, Stronger (funnily enough I have met Mark Bell and trained in his gym for four weeks, he is a very cool dude) are very misleading.

s*** like having a lot of muscle mass and being able to lift heavy weights doesn't really mean **** if you're stressed/obsessed and unhappy in the pursuit of those things. You reference Frank Zane but imo Frank is the sort of person who could do well with that lifestyle, he seems very relaxed, carefree and grounded. Most people in Western societies are not really in the same bracket and would do far better to let go of that bull**** and try and find another way....

Did those people use recreational drugs and drink alcohol too? not attacking just genuinely curious. Also what was their diet like?

I agree that way too many people are treating steroids like they're a toy, but my point above was that its not black or white and may people use without harm...

 

[James_001]

p.s. i am not promoting steroid use

 

[Integral]

post 119381

post 119314

post 119300

post 119297

What about guys like frank zane who used steroids almost all his life and are fine......

He is 70 something now

What about guys like Blade Runner who lost their legs and became one of the fastest runners ever?

We don't judge based on outliers. Take the guys that have ALS as your consequences of steroid abuse.

Who are these people? seriously, I am not trolling I just don't know of anyone that has used AAS and was harmed as a consequence. Zyzz doesn't count as he abused recreational drugs and alcohol, and eat like s*** as well as using AAS. Same thing applies to guys like jeff seid....

Bro with all due respect just because you don't know anyone in your personal life who's not been harmed by roiding doesn't really mean that much. For example, I used to compete in powerlifting and happened to train at a serious powerlifting gym. The guys in that gym knew all the big name lifters on a personal level. They drank beers with them etc. I can honestly say I have witnessed many, many people have their lives ruined by steroids. I don't want to name any names but some of the best and most famous powerlifters in my country are now awaiting kidney transplants. One of them is on dialysis which is f***ing sad as he was at one point the best powerlifter in the world and will go down in history.

In my opinion wanting to use steroids is not a very wise decision. I don't think they're inherently dangerous, but equally the sort of attitude people now have around steroids after watching films like Bigger, Faster, Stronger (funnily enough I have met Mark Bell and trained in his gym for four weeks, he is a very cool dude) are very misleading.

s*** like having a lot of muscle mass and being able to lift heavy weights doesn't really mean **** if you're stressed/obsessed and unhappy in the pursuit of those things. You reference Frank Zane but imo Frank is the sort of person who could do well with that lifestyle, he seems very relaxed, carefree and grounded. Most people in Western societies are not really in the same bracket and would do far better to let go of that bull**** and try and find another way....

Did those people use recreational drugs and drink alcohol too? not attacking just genuinely curious. Also what was their diet like?

I agree that way too many people are treating steroids like they're a toy, but my point above was that its not black or white and may people use without harm...

Sorry I can't really comment on that it would be a little rude. Ok I get what you're saying.

 

[halken]

An interesting paradox, yes. I suppose it comes down to the simple fact that one must enjoy enduring the process over the outcome/result. Setting a finite post in your mind that you have planted meaning and happiness in. The bigger problem is happiness itself. Much like confidence, suffers from a static position that if one were to pleasure themselves too much in, will miss the finer qualities of life that are reflective of such things.

Every form of emotional and mental qualities is important. Why is happiness above all? It's like when I'm around people who complain about being alone. If you can't be happy being alone then those who see you unhappy (due to your loneliness) won't feel the connection of you being happy around them. Think about that for a moment.

The ultimate state of mind for happiness and fulfillment that restores metabolism is perseverance; from life to death. Every moment should be geared toward structuring purpose. Having goals etc. Worshiping Death as your god. Everything else is secondary. The mind force is ultimate. Life is work in the sense that it never ends until your body says so. Then it's just retirement.

 

[Makrosky]

post 119051
Now the means to get all these things, from what I have seen, all prevent you from actually enjoying these things, which is the paradox. I am sure this is not a surprise to anyone, but some of the people with the most "stuff" enjoy it the least, and are the most miserable people on the planet. I drove around a couple months ago with a guy who used to be a pharma sales rep. He said without a doubt the most miserable, "assholeish," unhappy people are doctors. They are constantly sold to, must toe the AMA line or get booted, have huge amounts of debt, and work with sick people all the time. Yet from a societal point of view, they have money, nice things, nice places to live, good looking spouses...all the stuff you could want!

My point is, in our society, to get the good stuff, you must lower your metabolism through stress, living under some type of authority, debt slavery, or what have you. This lowering of metabolism makes everything just so much less...satisfying. A great example of this is in my own dating life. I have noticed that skinny women who do way too much endurance exercise enjoy sex the least and have the least amount of personality to offer, despite being on the so called top of the totem pole. They may have their choice of a great relationship, but they aren't very satisfied and express this by being "picky." Now, say they gained some weight and upped their metabolism...they might be more interested in a relationship, but their rank, or whatever, has fallen, and it becomes harder to find one.

You know what ? No big surprise. You are just describing the sick society/culture we live in. Albeit, some countries are better than others to that regard. You mentioned doctors but I think it's unfair : You can find zombified unhappy people everywhere : from construction workers to academic professors to barmans to doctors. It doesn't matter.

 

[milk_lover]

post 119511

post 119051
Now the means to get all these things, from what I have seen, all prevent you from actually enjoying these things, which is the paradox. I am sure this is not a surprise to anyone, but some of the people with the most "stuff" enjoy it the least, and are the most miserable people on the planet. I drove around a couple months ago with a guy who used to be a pharma sales rep. He said without a doubt the most miserable, "assholeish," unhappy people are doctors. They are constantly sold to, must toe the AMA line or get booted, have huge amounts of debt, and work with sick people all the time. Yet from a societal point of view, they have money, nice things, nice places to live, good looking spouses...all the stuff you could want!

My point is, in our society, to get the good stuff, you must lower your metabolism through stress, living under some type of authority, debt slavery, or what have you. This lowering of metabolism makes everything just so much less...satisfying. A great example of this is in my own dating life. I have noticed that skinny women who do way too much endurance exercise enjoy sex the least and have the least amount of personality to offer, despite being on the so called top of the totem pole. They may have their choice of a great relationship, but they aren't very satisfied and express this by being "picky." Now, say they gained some weight and upped their metabolism...they might be more interested in a relationship, but their rank, or whatever, has fallen, and it becomes harder to find one.

You know what ? No big surprise. You are just describing the sick society/culture we live in. Albeit, some countries are better than others to that regard. You mentioned doctors but I think it's unfair : You can find zombified unhappy people everywhere : from construction workers to academic professors to barmans to doctors. It doesn't matter.

Maybe serotonin keeps them on the edge all the time, no time for slowing down and observe our vast universe. For some odd reason, when I am in mental quite state, I can look at the stars at night with a smile on my face (I don't try to smile--I just smile spontaneously) and my heart beats faster even though darkness is a stress! I get overwhelmed by the beautiful giant dark canvas dotted with small lights. When I am stressed, I have the "screw this, I am going home" mentality.

 

[mt_dreams]

I think it depends one why one chooses to be a doctor, if one does it b/c they feel a need to help those who are suffering, then they may never have the problems mentioned above. If one goes into the field for money or status purposes, then it's definitely a possibility. I wouldn't take the ex phrama sales persons observation too seriously, as many doctors have to be this way with them since the sales people themselves are part of the virus.

 

[Makrosky]

Maybe serotonin keeps them on the edge all the time, no time for slowing down and observe our vast universe. For some odd reason, when I am in mental quite state, I can look at the stars at night with a smile on my face (I don't try to smile--I just smile spontaneously) and my heart beats faster even though darkness is a stress! I get overwhelmed by the beautiful giant dark canvas dotted with small lights. When I am stressed, I have the "screw this, I am going home" mentality.

Yeah, that's how it works. Teeeeeerrible.

I don't think serotonin has anything to do with that by the way. I had those nature loving moments as well in the time I was taking 5-htp daily. Just like I can have them now in very special days. We're much more than a couple of god damn neurotransmitters.

 

[goodandevil]

Yeah the way to be is hidden, requires faith. You have to know that what is dangled in front of you wont make you happy, yet you have to be impermeable to the slavery indoctrination. Its true, you have to have the answers alone to have the answers for society.

 

[answersfound]

Yeah the way to be is hidden, requires faith. You have to know that what is dangled in front of you wont make you happy, yet you have to be impermeable to the slavery indoctrination. Its true, you have to have the answers alone to have the answers for society.

Well said.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

People want cars, good jobs, relationships, kids, money, houses, travel, experiences, power, control, health...you name it someone probably wants it.

What people want is happiness, meaning, love, connection, appreciation. The physical comforts are nice, but largely they too are tools for connection. Advertisement and the culture of consumption tells us that buying stuff will make us happy. So we buy, and earn, and consume in hopes of being loved.

Very poor people can live happy, meaningful lives and often do in their traditional cultures. It's just that our culture is sick.