A List Of Things That Lower Carnitine Levels

[managing]

Carnitine is bad for the heart, suppresses thyroid, facilitates lipolysis and aggravates insulin sensitivity. Peat is very much against. One of many reasons he advocates gelatin with muscle meat is to balance the carnitine.

He is very negative about carnitine. One thing that inhibits carnitine is Meldonium (Mildronate) for example. I've been experimenting with it and it has been amazing. 17o mg 2xday clearly is radically inhibiting lipolysis. I've had to up carbs*, but I suddenly seem to tolerate (thrive) on any amount of carbs I can manage to consume, especially sugar. I've cut back fat to even better effect.

But I don't want this to be about Meldonium. Its very clear from digging around that its action is mostly or entirely related to its inhibition of carnitine.

Meldonium is pretty safe, relatively easy to obtain, and not terribly expensive. Still, I'd like to know what other things inhibit carnitine?

*Upping carbs, especially sugar. If I don't, I get sleepy and/or mild adrenaline symptoms about 3 hours after eating. Still, this is a good thing, as my body is now able to utilize them better. So just up carbs, be less dependent on fat. And feel amazing.

 

[redsun]

Carnitine is bad for the heart, suppresses thyroid, facilitates lipolysis and aggravates insulin sensitivity. Peat is very much against. One of many reasons he advocates gelatin with muscle meat is to balance the carnitine.

He is very negative about carnitine. One thing that inhibits carnitine is Meldonium (Mildronate) for example. I've been experimenting with it and it has been amazing. 17o mg 2xday clearly is radically inhibiting lipolysis. I've had to up carbs*, but I suddenly seem to tolerate (thrive) on any amount of carbs I can manage to consume, especially sugar. I've cut back fat to even better effect.

But I don't want this to be about Meldonium. Its very clear from digging around that its action is mostly or entirely related to its inhibition of carnitine.

Meldonium is pretty safe, relatively easy to obtain, and not terribly expensive. Still, I'd like to know what other things inhibit carnitine?

*Upping carbs, especially sugar. If I don't, I get sleepy and/or mild adrenaline symptoms about 3 hours after eating. Still, this is a good thing, as my body is now able to utilize them better. So just up carbs, be less dependent on fat. And feel amazing.

Uhh... carnitine is bad for the heart? The heart preferably uses lipids for fuel.

 

[managing]

I am not claiming it is beyond debate, but there is a lot of research out there stating carnitine is linked to CVD, either directly or through TMAO:

https://www.google.com/search?q=carnitine heart disease&cad=h

 

[Michael Mohn]

Haidut said that aspirin and niacinamide act like Mildronate, redusing lipolysis. Coffain increases glucose oxidation as does thyroid.

 

[High_Prob]

https://www.researchgate.net/post/Are_there_any_warnings_from_long-term_use_of_L-carnitine

“As you may have read or heard in the news lately, a new study published in the journal Nature Medicine suggests that the L-carnitine, not the saturated fat, found in red meat is the real culprit in heart disease risk and that L-carnitine supplements are unsafe and have side effects. Folks, this is just the latest example of the pitfalls associated with mainstream media reporting and medical research.
First of all, the study authors state that gut bacteria convert carnitine into a compound called trimethylamine-N-oxide (TMAO), and they believe that TMAO allows cholesterol to build up in artery walls, thereby raising heart disease risk. However, even if carnitine is converted to TMAO, it is highly unlikely to be a primary player in red meat’s adverse health effects, as the researchers theorized. Here’s why.
A pound of steak contains approximately 400 mg of carnitine, some of which is likely converted to TMAO. But a pound of fish contains 1,700 mg of TMAO. So if TMAO is the real culprit then why is fish, which contains much more TMAO than what your body would convert from the L-carnitine found in red meat, universally accepted as being cardio-protective?
No Studied L-Carnitine Side Effects with Normal Usage
As for the suggestion that L-carnitine side effects are harmful, this is simply a matter of guilt by association. The researchers state that when mice were fed the human equivalent of 26,000 mg of carnitine per day, they developed arterial blockages—that equate to 26–52 times the normal supplement dose of 500–1,000 mg!
Furthermore, all of the news reports neglected to mention any of the previous human clinical trials and other studies that demonstrated carnitine’s significant benefits, including those studies using rabbits, which are considered to be the best model of human heart disease.”

 

[mangoes]

But I don't want this to be about Meldonium. Its very clear from digging around that its action is mostly or entirely related to its inhibition of carnitine.

I know you don’t want this to be about meldonium but I’m pretty sure it has more action than just inhibiting carnitine. It increases vascular endothelial NO, so I’m not sure all of it’s beneficial effects can be related solely to its effect on carnitine inhibition.

Carnitine can be pretty bad, it’s fatty acid esthers are surfactants. Too much of a build up = mitochondrial damage. There’s no doubt that meldonium has heart protective effects judging from the studies but idk if it’s coz of the inhibition of carnitine or the vascular increase of NO, or even a further yet elucidated mechanism of action.

I don’t find that posted above by @High_Prob convincing either though. Carnitine is well known to be anti-thyroid and supplementing it like suggested by that author is not a good idea imo, & that post doesn’t even offer any good evidence for it, just saying “TMAO is found a lot in fish and fish is well known to be heart protective.”

the only other carnitine inhibitor I’ve heard of is perhexiline and it’s somewhat toxic iirc

 

[managing]

https://www.researchgate.net/post/Are_there_any_warnings_from_long-term_use_of_L-carnitine

“As you may have read or heard in the news lately, a new study published in the journal Nature Medicine suggests that the L-carnitine, not the saturated fat, found in red meat is the real culprit in heart disease risk and that L-carnitine supplements are unsafe and have side effects. Folks, this is just the latest example of the pitfalls associated with mainstream media reporting and medical research.
First of all, the study authors state that gut bacteria convert carnitine into a compound called trimethylamine-N-oxide (TMAO), and they believe that TMAO allows cholesterol to build up in artery walls, thereby raising heart disease risk. However, even if carnitine is converted to TMAO, it is highly unlikely to be a primary player in red meat’s adverse health effects, as the researchers theorized. Here’s why.
A pound of steak contains approximately 400 mg of carnitine, some of which is likely converted to TMAO. But a pound of fish contains 1,700 mg of TMAO. So if TMAO is the real culprit then why is fish, which contains much more TMAO than what your body would convert from the L-carnitine found in red meat, universally accepted as being cardio-protective?
No Studied L-Carnitine Side Effects with Normal Usage
As for the suggestion that L-carnitine side effects are harmful, this is simply a matter of guilt by association. The researchers state that when mice were fed the human equivalent of 26,000 mg of carnitine per day, they developed arterial blockages—that equate to 26–52 times the normal supplement dose of 500–1,000 mg!
Furthermore, all of the news reports neglected to mention any of the previous human clinical trials and other studies that demonstrated carnitine’s significant benefits, including those studies using rabbits, which are considered to be the best model of human heart disease.”

I am not really fixated on whether carnitine is truly the culprit in CVD, nor whether it is conversion to TMAO that is the culprit. Rather, I am focused on the fact that Peat advocates things that reduce carnitine and that these things that reduce carnitine inhibit lypolysis (which is indisputable) and promote glycolysis and make me feel good. So, ultimately, I don't really care about carnitine and don't have an opinion about its contribution to CVD. I am looking for analogs to Mildronate in the inhibition of carnitine.

That said, the thing that jumps out at me about the "fish has lots of TMAO" argument is that TMAO's dipole moment is 5.4. Stomach pH will ionize it completely. Furthermore, bacteriodetes metabolize TMAO. IOW, the TMAO will not make it into the bloodstream, not even close. Whereas, other bacteria (clostridiales, ruminococcus, lacnospiracea) metabolize carnitine into TMAO. Further, over time, consumption of carnitine will favor those genuses over bacteriodetes. So, I don't have an opinion about the consumption of carnitine leading to circulating TMAO, nor the claim that TMAO is the culprit in CVD. But the refutation you posted is a failure so far as it goes.

One more important distinction: Meldonium does NOT (at least has never been claimed to) have any effect on intestinal carnitine. Rather, it limits circulating carnitine. And it is circulating carnitine, not intesinal carnitine nor circulating TMAO, that facilitates cellular lipolysis. Again, this is what I am focusing on.

I merely included the detail about carnitine and CVD because it seemed relevant. But, if you ignore that, you'll still see the crux of the post. Which is about inhibiting lipolysis through limiting circulating carnitine.

 

[managing]

I know you don’t want this to be about meldonium but I’m pretty sure it has more action than just inhibiting carnitine. It increases vascular endothelial NO, so I’m not sure all of it’s beneficial effects can be related solely to its effect on carnitine inhibition.

Carnitine can be pretty bad, it’s fatty acid esthers are surfactants. Too much of a build up = mitochondrial damage. There’s no doubt that meldonium has heart protective effects judging from the studies but idk if it’s coz of the inhibition of carnitine or the vascular increase of NO, or even a further yet elucidated mechanism of action.

I don’t find that posted above by @High_Prob convincing either though. Carnitine is well known to be anti-thyroid and supplementing it like suggested by that author is not a good idea imo, & that post doesn’t even offer any good evidence for it, just saying “TMAO is found a lot in fish and fish is well known to be heart protective.”

the only other carnitine inhibitor I’ve heard of is perhexiline and it’s somewhat toxic iirc

THanks. Excellent points. Part of my purpose in looking for carnitine inhibitors is, first and foremost, to compare them to Meldonium (subjectively in the "how does this make me feel" sense).

So, that would give at least some anecdotal, subjective information about whether it is the carnitine inhibition, or more, that is doing Meldonium's good.

 

[managing]

Haidut said that aspirin and niacinamide act like Mildronate, redusing lipolysis. Coffain increases glucose oxidation as does thyroid.

Hmmm, this study says that aspirin facilitates long chain fatty acid metabolism. They find aspirin "facilitates FAO by the carnitine shuttle".

Aspirin Increases Mitochondrial Fatty Acid Oxidation

But it also introduces a new carnitine inhibitor: etomoxir. Never heard of it, but it inhibits carnitine palmitoyltransferase, much like Mildronate.

NOTE: Etomoxir is apparently an irreversible inhibitor of carnitine palmitoyltransferase

 

[maillol]

What about just avoiding carnitine as much as possible?
What are some low carnitine protein sources? Chicken, fish, milk and cheese seem to be pretty low.
What about whey or casein powders?

 

[jb116]

FFA release and FAO are not the same.