A Cry For Help: Uncontrollable Fat Gain. Something Is FUNDAMENTALLY Wrong :(

[somuch4food]

Eat what you want to eat. Get more rest. Don't exercise.

I second that. Enjoyment of food is important for digestion.

 

[Vinny]

@Vinny , you've said, that you didn't tolerate strong substances like garlic etc. So be very very prudent with essential oils! They can provoke a very acute response from the pancreas and gallbladder. Just a humble word of caution. Wish you to solve your problems!

Thanks for chiming in, Pompadour

Yes, Am aware that ess oils can be bad for the pancreas. They are, simply put, poisons, lol, that plants produce to protect themselves. And the pancreas is a very sensitive gland, and I feel like mine is not in good shape. That's why Am going to use the oil with extreme caution, very slowly building up, and in combination with other protocols.
Всего хорошего и вам!

 

[berk]

I have done this as well, and I did find it effective, at least in the shorter term. The thing that always throws a wrench in this for me is the really lean competitive eaters. Here's 96 pound Nela Zisser demolishing 5 pounds of fries (over 7,000 calories) in 20 minutes-



She's doing challenges like this weekly, and has been doing it for a few years, and her figure just doesn't change. How can this thin girl (almost too thin) go through 2-5x the daily caloric intake (and also sheer weight of food) in a single meal of a man 70 pounds heavier than her, and it not have an impact on her body comp? No doubt there is something wrong with always restricting calories.

=

this girl destroying rays theory about starch and fat = fattening than.

 

[lampofred]

I have done this as well, and I did find it effective, at least in the shorter term. The thing that always throws a wrench in this for me is the really lean competitive eaters. Here's 96 pound Nela Zisser demolishing 5 pounds of fries (over 7,000 calories) in 20 minutes-



She's doing challenges like this weekly, and has been doing it for a few years, and her figure just doesn't change. How can this thin girl (almost too thin) go through 2-5x the daily caloric intake (and also sheer weight of food) in a single meal of a man 70 pounds heavier than her, and it not have an impact on her body comp? No doubt there is something wrong with always restricting calories.

And she's not the only one. Molly Schuler is 120 pounds, and she does 2-3x the amount Nela does on a weekly basis, and she isn't ballooning up, either.

I know Kelj and Billy Craig have made similar arguments. One thing I do remember..... when monitoring calories in a planned deficit, I would have a week eating at maintenance (at least) every 4-6 weeks. I was also regularly going on vacations (often to Vegas), and during those times, all restrictions were off! Can you say buffet? There is absolutely something to those "breaks" that helps with the goal.

Lol. This is the kind of thing that'll give Peat a heart attack.

How old is she? If she's still finishing growing then metabolism is still high and can take care of PUFA by diluting it. It's once growth is over that PUFA starts to rapidly build-up at 5x the rate as before and slows metabolism.

Also I needed to watch this to purify my eyes :

 

[tankasnowgod]

Lol. This is the kind of thing that'll give Peat a heart attack.

How old is she? If she's still finishing growing then metabolism is still high and can take care of PUFA by diluting it. It's once growth is over that PUFA starts to rapidly build-up at 5x the rate as before and slows metabolism.

Also I needed to watch this to purify my eyes :

She's in her mid twenties, and also lives in New Zealand. It's possible more saturated oils are generally used for cooking there.

 

[yerrag]

She's in her mid twenties, and also lives in New Zealand. It's possible more saturated oils are generally used for cooking there.

I doubt they'll be any different w/r to use of sat fats, but I could be wrong. People go to the supermarket and they grab anything on the shelves that says 'vegetable' for their cooking oil. Thinking if it says 'vegetable' it must be good.

I'd tell friends to buy coconut oil for cooking, and they go ahead and buy 'vegetable oil.' Go figure.

This is in the Philippines, where a lot of coconut oil comes from.

Vegetable oil can be any oil that doesn't come from animals - so it can be soya, corn, canola etc. Apparently the label says vegetable oil, even if it's coconut oil, because people are still afraid of coconut oil from medical propaganda. And to be clear, not all vegetable oil sold here is coconut oil. You also get soya, corn, and canola oil. So, people buying veggie oil here can just get any of these oils. No one bothers to look into the label more thoroughly to see what the vegetable oil really came from.

I can really see myself being a troll and selling "Animal Oil" and sticking it to them. Of course, it would be beef tallow. But then I'd be bankrupt as fast as the first belch comes from a cow.

 

[lampofred]

She's in her mid twenties, and also lives in New Zealand. It's possible more saturated oils are generally used for cooking there.

If she's in her mid 20s then my guess would be that she's relying heavily on fat oxidation and not sugar oxidation and that's why she's able to be thin. I was stick thin when I was eating lots of PUFA (people would always ask me if I was even eating at all) because it makes you oxidize fat.

She looks really young, I thought she was around 16. Girls I knew in high school looked older than her, not in a bad way but in the sense of having more mature facial development. My face has started maturing again after reducing PUFA consumption (it had stopped while I was eating PUFA and burning fat), so I think burning fat might have other bad consequences even if it does keep you thin. (Or maybe she just naturally has young-looking facial features.)

 

[tankasnowgod]

If she's in her mid 20s then my guess would be that she's relying heavily on fat oxidation and not sugar oxidation and that's why she's able to be thin. I was stick thin when I was eating lots of PUFA (people would always ask me if I was even eating at all) because it makes you oxidize fat.

She looks really young, I thought she was around 16. Girls I knew in high school looked older than her, not in a bad way but in the sense of having more mature facial development. My face has started maturing again after reducing PUFA consumption (it had stopped while I was eating PUFA and burning fat), so I think burning fat might have other bad consequences even if it does keep you thin. (Or maybe she just naturally has young-looking facial features.)

Well, other older competitive eaters remain thin as they age. Molly Schuyler is 40, can put down 2-3x the amount of food that Nela can in a similar time frame, and also hasn't really gained weight over time. She's been doing it since 2012. She doubled "The Big Texan" challenge, and later tripled it- This Woman Doubled the Big Texan 72 oz. Steak Challenge, Broke a Record
Others like Joey Chesnut and Kobayashi have been competitive eating for a while, and they haven't really gained weight, either (even though scientists that studied them keep on suggesting they will get obese). I don't really think it's healthy, at least on the extreme end. While they haven't gained weight, Molly and Joey do look like they have aged quite a bit. But I do think some occasional "Intermittent Feasting" might be a good thing. This could be in the area of the standard food challenges, like eating the Big Texan meal over a 30-40 minute period, maybe even some of the challenges that Nela does. More, this has always been a "sticking point" when talking about calories (specifically, monitoring "Calories In" like a hawk) and weight/fat loss.

 

[Jing]

They could be throwing it up after.

 

[LLight]

The infectious element in obesity is real in me. I imagine the bacterial content in my vascular system is large enough to form a quorum, whereupon p. gingivalis is able to form strong biofilms as well as interact with other microorganisms to form a synergistic and symbiotic relationship of the vilest kind to me. This is equivalent to having a government where corruption is institutionalized (much like the US deep state, if you agree that it exists). P. gingivalis is able to sequestering peptides (incretins) that have an effect on when and how much insulin is secreted and used as part of balancing our metabolic production of energy. The effect of this interference by the bacteria is to channel blood glucose away from tissue absorption into fat production in the liver. It also deprives the body of relying on glycogen when our blood sugar runs low. We are left to eat more, and as we eat more, a large portion of the input isn't used for energy production, but is stored in the form of fats. This leads to my weight gain, and as time goes on, it would become worse as I could become obese.

You may be interested by this one: Augmentation of Cationic Antimicrobial Peptide Production with Histone Deacetylase Inhibitors as a Novel Epigenetic Therapy for Bacterial Infections

"Indeed, pathogens have evolved the opposite strategy of down-regulating CAMP expression to better establish themselves in the host. For example, several bacterial pathogens down-regulate the cathelicidin LL-37, secretory leukocyte protease inhibitor (SLPI), and, or human beta defensins (e.g., HBD-1, HBD-2, HBD-3) in tissue culture cells [8,9], and animal infection models [10]. These results are consistent with the detection of significantly lower concentrations of CAMPs in infected individuals."

"Yin and Chung reported that the oral pathogens Poryphyromonas gingivalis and Fusobacterium nucleatum modulated HDAC1 and, or HDAC2 expression in a human immortalized human keratinocyte cells and primary gingival epithelial cells [16]. P gingivalis caused the most significant suppression of HDAC gene transcription and lower numbers of bacteria able to significantly reduce HDAC-1 mRNA compared to HDAC-2 mRNA, which required a higher multiplicity of infection."

 

[tankasnowgod]

They could be throwing it up after.

Well, that does happen, but based on Nela's reaction in this video, I don't think it's common in her case (and I would guess for most competitive eaters most of the time). She does warn you in the title of the video-

 

[Constatine]

You may be interested by this one: Augmentation of Cationic Antimicrobial Peptide Production with Histone Deacetylase Inhibitors as a Novel Epigenetic Therapy for Bacterial Infections

"Indeed, pathogens have evolved the opposite strategy of down-regulating CAMP expression to better establish themselves in the host. For example, several bacterial pathogens down-regulate the cathelicidin LL-37, secretory leukocyte protease inhibitor (SLPI), and, or human beta defensins (e.g., HBD-1, HBD-2, HBD-3) in tissue culture cells [8,9], and animal infection models [10]. These results are consistent with the detection of significantly lower concentrations of CAMPs in infected individuals."

"Yin and Chung reported that the oral pathogens Poryphyromonas gingivalis and Fusobacterium nucleatum modulated HDAC1 and, or HDAC2 expression in a human immortalized human keratinocyte cells and primary gingival epithelial cells [16]. P gingivalis caused the most significant suppression of HDAC gene transcription and lower numbers of bacteria able to significantly reduce HDAC-1 mRNA compared to HDAC-2 mRNA, which required a higher multiplicity of infection."

This is exactly why I think we should emphasize immune system related approaches when tackling bacteria dependent issues. Antimicrobials certainly have their place but all to often the mucosal immunity is overlooked.

 

[Vinny]

They could be throwing it up after.

She,s got a video 3 years ago, where she,s answering some questions (mostly dumm, imo). No, they don't throw up, that's a myth.

How come she's so thin, she answered, 1st, that she's very active (doesn't clarify what and how much; imo, it has little to do) and, 2nd, that not all food is digested, some just leaves the body as it is, unbroken (debatable).
She reported also, no health issues whatsoever. Very plausible, looking at her super cute, vibrant and youthful appearance.

 

[LLight]

This is exactly why I think we should emphasize immune system related approaches when tackling bacteria dependent issues. Antimicrobials certainly have their place but all to often the mucosal immunity is overlooked.

I wonder whether mucosal immunity is one or the most significant factor in gut dysbiosis. Maybe leaky gut can be caused by pathogens in the gut lining.

There must be other factors like bile production and flow or what you eat.

 

[Constatine]

I wonder whether mucosal immunity is one or the most significant factor in gut dysbiosis. Maybe leaky gut can be caused by pathogens in the gut lining.

There must be other factors like bile production and flow or what you eat.

There are a lot of studies showing leaky gut induced by an introduction of a pathogenic bacteria to the microbiome. Also IGA, Host defense peptides, and pretty much every other antimicrobial defense protein has been shown to reduce intestinal permeability. I would say that mucosal immunity is the most important factor in leaky gut.

 

[noodle]

You mentioned a lot of testing on your opening post.
Do you mind posting those results? Even the hair testing results. Might be interesting to look at.

 

[LLight]

There are a lot of studies showing leaky gut induced by an introduction of a pathogenic bacteria to the microbiome. Also IGA, Host defense peptides, and pretty much every other antimicrobial defense protein has been shown to reduce intestinal permeability. I would say that mucosal immunity is the most important factor in leaky gut.

Thanks for this information.

 

[Vinny]

So, after my recent nervous breakdown due to realization, that, just in one year time, I went from thin to morbidly obese, tried to calm down and come up with some conclusions, as well as possible strategy what to do.

(new tests not available atm)

In a way, I should consider myself lucky. It happened at a quite late age in my life - 46-47. Went to the Mall today, and saw 6 years old kids, like me, or even worse. It`s a disaster ....

However, something has to be done. Obviously, I can`t go on like this. And, I`m not buying the theory, that this is a kind of protective mechanism, that being fat is good in some ways and has some benefits. Protecting from what? From not falling on your butt ....? Nope. Piling up adipose tissue with the speed of light, can be only a consequence of a serious pathological disorder, that should be addressed and resolved as quick as possible. If not solved, you end up ..... you know where.

Last days, I`d been trying to refresh my memory, what happened about a year ago ....
Back then, I was a thin and handsome Low Carb High Fat boy. I had probably the best body composition in my life, but .... feeling like thrash. Ultra fatigued. And cold .... ice cold .... To feel so cold in Cyprus sounds ridiculous, but I was successful in it somehow.
Somebody asked, why I started peating. Well, I did, because I thought I was hypothyroid (no proper tests done). And, one of the ways to fix it, according the information in the forum, I was supposed to eat .... sugar (by sugar I mean here carbs and table/fruit sugar too).
So, I broke lose on sugar and introduced it into my diet. My first treat were Kitkat bars .... Don`t know if it influenced my thyroid positively, or any other organ, system or state, but eventually, I started to put fat....
Since I can`t relate my condition neither to cortisol, neither to excess calorie intake, the most possible culprit is carbs.
But why, since there are so many studies showing that carbs can`t make you fat, they have such a gross impact on me? Well, because I am obviously not metabolizing them. For what reason? My best guess, there is something preventing me from, and it`s bacteria/microbes/endotoxin - call it how you like.

There is absolutely no doubt left, that I`ve got some bugs, and probably, for a very long time. Acne, jock itch, abdominal pain and discomfort are the most noticeable bad effects from it, may be also that`s why my sleep is ruined and I`m so fatigued .... I can not prove it, sadly, with tests and/or scientific studies, that microbes mix up my glucose oxidation, but I`ve got no better fitting explanation atm.

Don`t know what would happen if I get rid of the critters; not sure if possible in my case at all, but I`m very willing to try. I want them out of my system. Kill them all. Gone forever.

Guess I`ll open another, antimicrobial thread, next. Now, I`ll concentrate on my diet.
Sugar is gone. I mean, added table sugar. And, since I need some glucose anyway, will rely on fruits, some chocolate and some energy drink here and there. Fortunately, we`ve got good, ripe fruits in the island.
Starch is gone too, with exceptions when I have a craving for it.
Milk/dairy ..... Since my early childhood, I`ve always found milk absolutely disgusting (talking about cow`s milk). Can stand it only with coffee/cacao etc. Its smell alone makes me gag.
I lke some cheeses thou. But, considering that cheese is made of this appalling white fluid, should I really have to consume it?
As it`s a fact, that I`ve got some bacteria, here is another one: since cutting out milk/dairy, I`m hemorrhoids free.
Ok, I cut also alcohol, hot, irritating substances too, so may be those contributed as well.... May be I`ll try again some hard cheese again and see what happens.... I`m quite sure we`re not supposed to eat dairy at all, but some nations, like French, Dutch and Swiss thrive on it, and I still`ve got no idea how do they manage so well. Envy....
Obviously, meat`s going to be my staple food for awhile (I have to eat something anyway, right?). Meat is a macro that I like and digest very well. Beef chunks mainly, as well as some pork, lamb, shrimps, liver once in a blue moon. I like beef liver`s taste, but its quality here is very questionable, unfortunately. We`ve got lamb`s/goat liver in the butchery, which is awesome, but one is obliged to buy the whole internals, except the liver itself, so you end up with a lot of fatty chunks that you don`t know what to do with, so it`s a kind a put off to buy lamb`s liver....
Forgot to mention in the first post, that I eat the mushrooms. I buy sliced, in cans, throw the water, blend them to puree and boil them for long with the meat.
Several people mentioned that I`m low in calcium, so already taking egg shell powder. Some of the yolks I mix in my stew.
Had forgotten about the leafy greens. Already going high on them too. Thanks for pointing this out. Very, very good addition. Absolutely love them!
No carrot. Tried it a few times, but too hard on my digestive tract. Couldn`t notice any benefits also.
Cyprus`got immense production of oranges and other citruses. They literally rot on the ground. Ironically, never liked nor oranges, nor whatever citrus. It seems, I`m the worst peater ever, lol
Fat is going to be from what`s in the meat, plus some chocolate and coconut oil. Never noticed whatever benefit from consuming coconut oil, but since it`s expected to be antiinflamatory/antimicrobial, will add some.
Supplements, drugs, exercises and other therapies, will be in another post. Will mention now only the PUFA depletion:

@yerrag
No, I haven`t done 4 year PUFA depletion. I found out what`s pufa only recently. However, since arriving in Cyprus 11 years ago, my pufa intake naturally went low, switching to olive oil and saturated fats. Far from 4 grams a day, of course, but still, much less, comparing with the past intake. You think, that PUFA is what`s causing insulin resistance? Very possible, but you know, there are lots of people around ingesting bad vegetable oils, but maintaining somehow a pretty good health, correct? But, hold on here! I`m not questioning the necessity of PUFA purge - it is a must and I`m going for it. The point now is different - that, I must, one way or another, reach to the 4 year mark, alive and relatively sane - you understand me? I mean, what would full pufa depletion give me, if I`m, at that time, 300 pounds, diabetic and who knows in what mental state?


Anyway, let`s sum up:
I`m increasingly getting fatter because can`t metabolize sugar.
Can`t metabolize it, because bacteria/microbes/endotoxin, or whatever freakish name it has, is preventing me from doing so.
The logical assumption would be, that clearing the endotoxin would supposedly lead to restoring the glucose oxidation and, subsequently, burn the fat down (and save my life, in a way). This is the best guess I`m able to come up atm.

Thanks for reading this and feel free to show me the flaws you see.

Edit:
@noodle
Can`t find my old tests. They`re somewhere on my comp, but don`t remember which file .... Will post as soon as they appear.

 

[Constatine]

Regularly drinking green tea (only high quality) is a good way to both stimulate weight loss as well as modulate the microbiome. There is an incredible amount of research showing green tea leads to very significant fat loss as well as lowering lps (endotoxins).

 

[Blossom]

In a way, I should consider myself lucky. It happened at a quite late age in my life - 46-47.

Ironically that was exactly the same for me. I turned 50 last November and I’m finally back to a comfort body composition. You just have to decide what you want and come up with a plan to get there in a way that doesn’t involve destroying your health.