A Cry For Help: Uncontrollable Fat Gain. Something Is FUNDAMENTALLY Wrong :(

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Vinny

Vinny

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Vinny, like you realized yourself, you have not enough calcium intake. That means your body will be in phosphorus excess which will pull calcium out of your bones and cause it to circulate and end up in places you don't want it to be. High calcium diets are anti inflammatory and help with weightloss. The opposite should be true for low calcium or high phosphorus diets.

If you can't tolerate dairy you can just grind up some eggshells and eat small amounts mixed with food. 5-6g eggshell per day should be enough (about 2g calcium).

Calcium Paradox – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)
Dietary calcium deficiency results in calcium being placed where it does not belong – in the soft tissues and inside cells. This happens at the expense of our bones, increasing inflammation, interfering with energy production, and causing dysfunctions like hypertension, arteriosclerosis, type 2 diabetes, neurodegenerative diseases, obesity, metabolic syndrome, and degenerative joint disease. Inappropriate calcification occurs ironically due to a lack of calcium. This phenomenon is known as the calcium paradox.
Noted. This I can start immediately. Thank you!
 

Nicole W.

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I agree that aspirin, dairy can cause weight gain but I think copper, even though it's anti histamine, would cause weight loss because it lowers blood sugar.

Also I think most pro-histamine things cause weight loss because they are actually mildly killing you, but you already prefaced your post with "not a popular opinion" and we have disagreed about this in the past so will just agree to disagree.
I am starting to think that all the things that promote weight loss, especially rapid weight loss, are actually ALL mildly killing you. In the past, I maintained a lower body weight by eating a lot of nuts, for example. Maybe the bottom line is that things that promote health also promote weight gain, and the things that promote weight loss are actually causing a wasting state on some level. I think the body likes reserves, just like we like emergency funds... just in case! Maybe healthiness and thinness are mutually exclusive for many people, especially older people.
 

lampofred

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I am starting to think that all the things that promote weight loss, especially rapid weight loss, are actually ALL mildly killing you. In the past, I maintained a lower body weight by eating a lot of nuts, for example. Maybe the bottom line is that things that promote health also promote weight gain, and the things that promote weight loss are actually causing a wasting state on some level. I think the body likes reserves, just like we like emergency funds... just in case! Maybe healthiness and thinness are mutually exclusive for many people, especially older people.

True, it seems like having high thyroid and a sterile gut are the only truly healthy ways to be lean and after a certain age, when thyroid naturally slows down, it's far healthier to be a bit on the heavier side than to maintain a partially wasting state as you mentioned.
 

Tarmander

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boris

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Noted. This I can start immediately. Thank you!
:thumbup:

I wanted to add this: Calcium Supplements…Do you need them? | Kate Deering Fitness & Nutrition

"4. Adequate levels of Vitamin K (more specifically K2). Vitamin K is a fat-soluble vitamin. Increased levels of vitamin K are showing a decrease in calcification of tissue and arteries and increase in bone development. In a clinical study from Rotterdam, Holland: “When Vitamin K2 is lacking, the Calcium remains in the blood and ends up getting deposited in the walls of arteries and other sites, which is very undesirable.” Good sources of vitamin K2 are foie gras, Gouda, and Edam cheese. Good sources of K1 are green leafy vegetables. Bacteria in the small intestine can convert K1 to K2.

5. Adequate levels of Magnesium. Magnesium is needed for Calcium absorption and retention. According to Dr Ray Peat, “Magnesium deficiency and Calcium deficiency have some similar symptoms (such as cramping). But Magnesium is antagonistic to Calcium in many systems. It is the basic protective Calcium-blocker. G. Jasmin, showed that Magnesium deficiency causes inflammation. A deficiency of either Calcium or Magnesium can stimulate the parathyroid glands to produce more hormone (parathyroid hormone, PTH), which increases Calcium absorption, but also removes Calcium from the bones. This hormone, responding to a dietary Calcium or Magnesium deficiency, is an important factor in causing cells to take up too much Calcium. And its excess is associated with many inflammatory and degenerative diseases.”
Good sources of Magnesium are Epson salt baths, tropical fruits, coffee, dark chocolate, bone broth, squash, spinach, some nuts."


Since you did a round of antibiotics it's possible you need more K2.
I get both additionally from supplements now. I felt like I didn't get enough from the foods I had available, will see if it makes a difference.

Also Aspirin should be taken with Vitamin K to counteract the blood thinning effect.
About 1mg K for every 325mg Aspirin.
 
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Hans

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Thanks, I appreciate, Hans. Can suspect how many emails you receive every day and how much time consuming is....

Not sure what to say about the blood sugar during the day, but I guess I don't snack very often (debatable)
How many meals do you eat per day and how many snacks do you consume additionally?
Some peoples' gut bacteria extract a lot more calories from their food (might be specific to certain types of food) than others and that is also why someone can gain weight easily on less calories.

How is your environment currently, and how does it differ from when you were lean?
 

sweetpeat

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High cholesterol is a classic sign of hypothyroidism. I think some others above have mentioned this as a possibility. If you can't afford lab tests at the moment, maybe you could take your temperature first thing when you get up if you have a thermometer. Low basal temperature is another classic sign. Edit: most would say a basal temp under 97.8F (36.6C) is too low.
 
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Vinny

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I think focusing on your gut is the right approach.

the antibiotics to look into are minocycline and macrolides

here is a great guide to change gut microbiome through herbal pulses

Change Agents: Ken Lassesen on Prescription and Herbal Antibiotics to Alter the Gut Flora in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome - Health Rising

Your body cannot handle carbs. You can try to lower cortisol and increase thyroid, but if they aren't getting the milage, the gut is the way
Thanks, will have a look.
 
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Vinny

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:thumbup:

I wanted to add this: Calcium Supplements…Do you need them? | Kate Deering Fitness & Nutrition

"4. Adequate levels of Vitamin K (more specifically K2). Vitamin K is a fat-soluble vitamin. Increased levels of vitamin K are showing a decrease in calcification of tissue and arteries and increase in bone development. In a clinical study from Rotterdam, Holland: “When Vitamin K2 is lacking, the Calcium remains in the blood and ends up getting deposited in the walls of arteries and other sites, which is very undesirable.” Good sources of vitamin K2 are foie gras, Gouda, and Edam cheese. Good sources of K1 are green leafy vegetables. Bacteria in the small intestine can convert K1 to K2.

5. Adequate levels of Magnesium. Magnesium is needed for Calcium absorption and retention. According to Dr Ray Peat, “Magnesium deficiency and Calcium deficiency have some similar symptoms (such as cramping). But Magnesium is antagonistic to Calcium in many systems. It is the basic protective Calcium-blocker. G. Jasmin, showed that Magnesium deficiency causes inflammation. A deficiency of either Calcium or Magnesium can stimulate the parathyroid glands to produce more hormone (parathyroid hormone, PTH), which increases Calcium absorption, but also removes Calcium from the bones. This hormone, responding to a dietary Calcium or Magnesium deficiency, is an important factor in causing cells to take up too much Calcium. And its excess is associated with many inflammatory and degenerative diseases.”
Good sources of Magnesium are Epson salt baths, tropical fruits, coffee, dark chocolate, bone broth, squash, spinach, some nuts."


Since you did a round of antibiotics it's possible you need more K2.
I get both additionally from supplements now. I felt like I didn't get enough from the foods I had available, will see if it makes a difference.

Also Aspirin should be taken with Vitamin K to counteract the blood thinning effect.
About 1mg K for every 325mg Aspirin.
Thanks!
 

gaze

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you need some beta glucan to stabilize everything, and it has extreme normalization effects on cholesterol. Try a hefty dose of some wheat or oat bran or a large batch of mushrooms. For me the carrot alone isn’t enough. Best of luck to you either way, hang in there
 
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Vinny

Vinny

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How many meals do you eat per day and how many snacks do you consume additionally?
Some peoples' gut bacteria extract a lot more calories from their food (might be specific to certain types of food) than others and that is also why someone can gain weight easily on less calories.

How is your environment currently, and how does it differ from when you were lean?
I eat 3-4 meals per day, till satiety. Tracked calories a couple of times, don`t remember the numbers, but they looked kinda low.
I don`t snack usually, except on certain occasions when I can`t have a proper meal, like when I`m on shift or on a trip. The gap between meals varies, let`s say 2-4 hours apart.

My environment currently does not differ at all from the time I was thin (to sum up - I went from thin to morbidly obese in one year). Everything is the same.

Hope this makes sense.
 
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Vinny

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you need some beta glucan to stabilize everything, and it has extreme normalization effects on cholesterol. Try a hefty dose of some wheat or oat bran or a large batch of mushrooms. For me the carrot alone isn’t enough. Best of luck to you either way, hang in there
Thanks man!
 

Blossom

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I gained a lot of weight (>50 pounds at 5’2) and gradually lost it over 3 years. For me it was becoming more active doing things I enjoy like walking in nature and gardening and figuring out which foods I could and couldn’t tolerate. I’d definitely focus on your gut health and whatever type of movement brings you joy.
 

tankasnowgod

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I've gained and lost significant weight a few times. If you haven't, it might be a good idea to track everything you eat, at least for a week or two. That can give you a good baseline of calories, macros, and other trends. It can be a pain to do it forever, but I do think it is helpful in the short term.

The other thing I've realized is that there was usually some non-dietary, non-exercise trigger that preceded (and likely helped cause) weight gain. Things like a surgery, change in national nutrition policy (usually around PUFA or iron fortification), change in work schedule (and therefore sleep schedule), moving to a new place (often with a change in elevation) are things I've identified personally in my life. Take a look back over the past 12-18 months and look at all the major changes that have happened in your life. Even a mostly positive change (like getting into a relationship or promotion at work) can bring with it a certain amount of stress.

Long term, I am more convinced than ever that the keys are

1. Lowering stress hormones, and raising youth and metabolic hormones
2. Fixing the gut and liver
3. Keep iron/ferritin levels in check
4. Keeping the SFA/UFA ratio high
 

RWilly

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to sum up - I went from thin to morbidly obese in one year

Might be worth checking on insulin again. I know someone who had this happen and they had an insulinoma (a small tumor on the pancreas), which required surgery to remove. After surgery, everything went back to normal.
 

Hans

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I eat 3-4 meals per day, till satiety. Tracked calories a couple of times, don`t remember the numbers, but they looked kinda low.
I don`t snack usually, except on certain occasions when I can`t have a proper meal, like when I`m on shift or on a trip. The gap between meals varies, let`s say 2-4 hours apart.

My environment currently does not differ at all from the time I was thin (to sum up - I went from thin to morbidly obese in one year). Everything is the same.

Hope this makes sense.
Thanks. I think it would be good to track calories and macros just to get a baseline like already suggested. Then it might be easier to go from there.
 

YourUniverse

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Your gut may be impaired, leading to or exacerbating an endotoxin issue.

I would cut all starches, the main source of endotoxin.

I would fast for 24-30 hours, only coffee, water, and salt. 2 nights and 1 day. This will let the gut catch up on healing, like closing a highway to repair a pothole. It can also expose hunger caused by addiction or bacterial overgrowth, and distinguish it from true hunger in your own mind. It also nullifies and resets insulin. Insulin and cortisol run together, and cortisol (as you pointed out) is correlated with weight gain, especially around the middle. There is no more effective way to lower insulin than not eating.

I would then eat in a gut-healthy way for a few weeks. Skip breakfast, sip warm, salty gelatinous soups and fruit juice during the day, and have one large sweet-meat-(optional)dairy meal at night. Eat to satiety.

All of these things help the gut heal, and help the liver deal with its backlog and fat.

The high cholesterol points to hypothyroid, and the liver is where active thyroid is made. Endotoxin will lower thyroid in and of itself.
 

yerrag

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Vinny, I think it may be a matter of coincidence that your Peating came at a time when you're putting on a few pounds. Some conditions lurk and symptoms don't show until a later time. This time lag makes it harder for us to establish a good cause and effect relationship.

You'd showed me your CBC from 3 years ago. It would be nice if you could get another one so we can have one that closely corresponds to your current state.

Overweight has many reasons, but I believe that they all fall under faulty sugar metabolism for which there are many causes.

The first thing to check off is PUFAs causing blood sugar to not be absorbed. This causes blood sugar to rise, causing insulin release that signals the liver to convert blood sugar to fat. Have you been on a 4-year fast to make sure PUFA effects are minimized to the fullest extent? Until you do so, you won't be sure this isn't a significant cause of your weight gain. If you haven't really signed on to living a PUFA-free or PUFA-minimal lifestyle, you should start as soon as possible. 4 years might seem like a long time, but time flies and you won't regret having done so the moment you start feeling the benefits. Not doing this while looking for short-term measures doesn't quite cut it. You just want to first eliminate this as a probable cause. Otherwise, it will be a confounder in your efforts.

Next, you will need to improve your potassium stores. Potassium should never be deficient, as potassium facilitates sugar absorption into your tissues. Being on high potassium through high intakes of fruits and vegetables, and reasonable intakes of meat, would help keep your potassium levels high. Potassium is regularly excreted through urine and I think also through feces (since when one has diarrhea, he loses a lot of potassium), so it's good to keep a supply going into your body. However, your potassium stores won't build up unless you already have good magnesium stores.

Since it's hard to test whether you have high magnesium stores, I suggest assuming you are low on it, especially when you look back and retrace the food you're been eating your whole lifetime. Ray Peat says well-cooked green leaves (like simmering the green leaves for 20 minutes) provide the best source of magnesium. I think seafood is a good source of magnesium as well, but we normally don't eat that much, and if we do, we run the risk of getting too much mercury into our system. I looked to my past and realize I didn't use to eat cooked green leaves nor eat a lot of seafood, so I figure it's safe to assume I'm magnesium deficient. I went on about 1000mg/day magnesium for 6 months to build up my magnesium stores. Once I've built up my magnesium stores, I continue to maintain my magnesium by eating cooked green leaves for lunch and dinner daily. I even don't touch other vegetables anymore. Magnesium bicarbonate can be made yourself with magnesium hydroxide and carbon dioxide dispenser, but it's troublesome to make as you need some equipment and time. Magnesium acetate is easier to make. Some people in the forum say magnesium oxide worked well for them, even if it's widely panned in mainstream circles.

Since there is a concern that excess magnesium intake is fatal, it's good to know that the body will react by diarrhea when you are reach magnesium overdose. Be cognizant of this and you'll be fine.

If you can ensure that you have high potassium stores, you can at least rest assured that it's not potassium deficiency causing your body to have difficulty absorbing blood sugar. At this point, it should be clear to you that ensuring that your body absorbs blood sugar easily is imperative to keep blood sugar from being converted to fat by the liver, with insulin signalling.

There are other factors also that affect sugar absorption, and these are the factors that enable or enhance how efficient you are at metabolizing sugar. Since this forum is well-informed on these, I'll just making a passing mention. Good tissue oxygenation (with sufficient CO2 in the blood), enough oxygen supply from red blood cells, enough thyroid, enough red light to produce cytochrome c oxidase enzyme, enough thiamine (b1 vitamin), and enough electrolytes (calcium, sodium, potassium, and magnesium) and good acid-base balance.

Next to be mentioned is your gut health. At one level, endotoxins translocating to your blood stream should be minimized. This starts with having a lower level of bacteria in your gut, so that endotoxin production from dead bacteria can be lessened. Eating carrot salad in between meals, eating cooked bamboo shoots Next, you also have to make sure that most of the endotoxins be excreted instead of translocating to the blood stream. It helps to take activated charcoal to absorb endotoxins, and plenty on insoluble fiber (NOT soluble fiber) intake as this absorbs also the endotoxins that's coming from bile, to keep them from being recycled back into your system during digestion. Having sufficient zinc also increase alkaline phosphatase, and this also destroys endotoxins.

At another level, it's not only endotoxins, but also bacteria, that gets translocated into your blood. The gut linings are more permeable in a diseased state, and I don't know enough to tell you what can be done to heal the linings. Perhaps someone can chime in. But I mention this to bring home the idea that at this stage, you are dealing with both bacteria and endotoxins that get into your blood.

When you're dealing only with endotoxins form your gut, you may consider that the liver can be overwhelmed by a lot of endotoxins, and that the overload could make the liver less responsive in blood sugar regulation. I'm not sure about the mechanism involved here, as I've not read up enough on this aspect of it to say more about it. Perhaps someone else can expound on this. I myself do get mixed up when I could attribute to endotoxins what whould rightfully be attributed to bacteria, and vice versa. Ray Peat has mentioned of endotoxemia causing liver to not adequately eliminate endotoxins and causing the gall bladder to back up with endotoxins and causing estrogen and inflammation to build up in a Jodellefit interview on the latter months last year. That same liver is overwhelmed by endotoxemia to make it less functional and efficient in carrying out its vital role in blood sugar regulation, as well as its detoxifying functions and its role in converting cholesterol to protective steroid hormones.

Speaking of bacteria, I recently was able to focus more on bacteria as it relates to my recent weight gain. Being that bacteria come in all sorts, I can only speak to my experience with periodontal bacteria, specifically p. gingivalis, causing my recent weight gain. I was lucky enough to identify this as a cause, as usually causes slither in without us noticing and we are lost identifying it in all the confusion.

I took a strong dose of proteolytic enzymes, I saw the large increase in bacteria in my CBC blood test, I made a thread of it (though I mistakenly attributed it to endotoxins instead of bacteria) and from then on proceeded to gain 20 lbs. in a matter of 3 months. I now realize, looking back, that it can caused a large number of periodontal bacteria to be released from a dormant (relatively speaking) state in my blood vessels (these bacteria accumulated in my blood vessels over 15 years with a hidden periodontal infection). This caused my blood sugar regulation to go haywire. Whereas in the past when my hidden periodontal infection slowly released bacteria into my system, my blood sugar regulation wasn't visibly affected; it was different when the stored bacteria was unleashed on me when it was released as my vascular plaque was being lysed from a high dosage of proteolytic enzyme intake. For those not familiar with my health story, I have been exhausting all avenues to lower my very high blood pressure (short of taking prescription meds).

The infectious element in obesity is real in me. I imagine the bacterial content in my vascular system is large enough to form a quorum, whereupon p. gingivalis is able to form strong biofilms as well as interact with other microorganisms to form a synergistic and symbiotic relationship of the vilest kind to me. This is equivalent to having a government where corruption is institutionalized (much like the US deep state, if you agree that it exists). P. gingivalis is able to sequestering peptides (incretins) that have an effect on when and how much insulin is secreted and used as part of balancing our metabolic production of energy. The effect of this interference by the bacteria is to channel blood glucose away from tissue absorption into fat production in the liver. It also deprives the body of relying on glycogen when our blood sugar runs low. We are left to eat more, and as we eat more, a large portion of the input isn't used for energy production, but is stored in the form of fats. This leads to my weight gain, and as time goes on, it would become worse as I could become obese.

I'm still reading up on this, and I can share with you review articles. It's a lot to read up on even as @Amazoniac shares with me long reviews that are 40 pages long.

In summary, you have to consider a lot of factors involved, and with a better understanding of these factors, you can begin to slowly eliminate each possibility, starting with the most probable.
 

Constatine

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I'd say a good place to start is just to replace the red meat in your diet with chicken. Sure a diet high in fat and absent of carbs won't necessarily cause fat gain (keto), but a high fat diet with plenty of carbs will. High fat + high sugar is how scientists frequently induce obesity in experiments. A diet high in protein and carbs but lower in fat should induce weight loss. The higher the protein intake the more the fat loss, though too high a protein/carb ratio will result in a stress reaction. I'd say just cut your fat intake in half and double your protein intake.

Edit: with all this talk of calcium note that a high protein diet does rob you of calcium so increased calcium consumption is necessary.
 
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