A Common Probiotic Strain (lactobacillus) May Cause Lupus

[Fractality]

This is indeed the case; large numbers of gram-positive lactobacilli are present in the vagina only during the thirty-odd years when regular menstrual activity is present."

Does this mean oral sex should be avoided as a potential exposure event?

 

[haidut]

Does this mean oral sex should be avoided as a potential exposure event?

Not really. I don't think you get the same amount of bacteria from it compared to several capsules packed with various strains.

 

[Peatogenic]

Being hypothyroid, being too acidic, having gut and liver issues, eating gut-irritating foods, PUFAs, etc., will almost certainly cause an increase in lymphatic bacteria. If the lymph nodes are swollen or hurting or you have recurring infections, you can suspect bacteria.
I'm thinking sublingual natural anti-biotics, such as cinnamon-, ginger-, oregano-, thyme oil, etc., should be effective against lymphatic bacteria. A study I recently read showed that sublingual anti-biotics were effective in treating recurring bladder infection and reducing lymph node swelling.

How do you recommend taking/using the oils?

 

[Hans]

How do you recommend taking/using the oils?

You can probably experiment with different doses, taking it orally or subligually or both.
Maybe try one and then add more. Travis mentioned cinnamon oil is the most potent so maybe you can start with that.

 

[Peatogenic]

You can probably experiment with different doses, taking it orally or subligually or both.
Maybe try one and then add more. Travis mentioned cinnamon oil is the most potent so maybe you can start with that.

Thank you. I'm specifically seeking to target lymph system, and Red Clover seems to apply as well.

 

[Hans]

Thank you. I'm specifically seeking to target lymph system, and Red Clover seems to apply as well.

Red clover is highly estrogenic so I'd stay away from that.

 

[RatRancher]

@haidut @charlie et al. Sorry for the late question folks,but 1. I had to realize what my issue is and 2. I had to navigate this forum :).

If someone has lactic acid producing bacteria in the stomach, how do you destroy the colonization?
Garlic? Flowers of sulphur(tried it,no luck), More salt?antibiotics?

Eating anything causes serious burning in my stomach. As a child if I ate pancakes in the morning i would get almost immediate stomach pain.
I have read that low hcl is the culprit in allowing these bacteria to form colonies, so I do take betaine hcl now with great temporary results. But the root of the problem remains. Any ideas?

 

[BigChad]

@haidut @charlie et al. Sorry for the late question folks,but 1. I had to realize what my issue is and 2. I had to navigate this forum :).

If someone has lactic acid producing bacteria in the stomach, how do you destroy the colonization?
Garlic? Flowers of sulphur(tried it,no luck), More salt?antibiotics?

Eating anything causes serious burning in my stomach. As a child if I ate pancakes in the morning i would get almost immediate stomach pain.
I have read that low hcl is the culprit in allowing these bacteria to form colonies, so I do take betaine hcl now with great temporary results. But the root of the problem remains. Any ideas?

Anything causes burning means ulcer? In my case only acidic things like vinegar cause some burning in the upper stomach

 

[RealNeat]

Not really. I don't think you get the same amount of bacteria from it compared to several capsules packed with various strains.

Any ideas on how to get rid of BV in women? It seems that lactobacillus are usually touted for their ability to overcome the other, opportunist, less favorable bacteria.

chronic BV has been a very confusing subject and biofilm might be the culprit for the persistence. Also many African American women seem to have it. This might not be very scientific but if you search BV remedies on YouTube almost all the women are African American. My other suspicion is that these women are severely vitamin D deficient.

any advice would be very appreciated. Flowers of sulfur come to mind, but after treatment shouldn't some bacteria take residence to prevent the BV from happening again? Very confused.

 

[seraph94]

I got joint pain 2 years ago on my left wrist and till now it is present. Now I remember that I started to experience this pain after consuming probiotic tablets containing 6-7 strains of lactobacillus. I don’t remember the name of producer but it was Swedish company which had patent for this probiotic tablet. Apart from that I was making kefir from raw goat milk and kefir grains. I remember that after this stupid acts I got joint pain first time ever in my life.
Recently, approx 2.5 months ago I had varicocele surgery with general anesthesia. After surgery they started to give me antibiotics via vein on left arm. I remember that, just 4-5 seconds after the injection of antibiotic, I was feeling the taste of it in my mouth. However, what I want to mention by that is my gums stopped bleeding for a period of almost 2 weeks after the the injection of antibiotic. At the same time, I was taking one probably less powerful antibiotic pill daily for 10 days. Before these antibiotics I had almost no teeth brushing without having bleeding and swollen gums. Approximately for 1.5 month after the surgery I had very rare bleeding gums( maybe 1 or 2 times in entire 1.5 month)
But now almost 2.5 month after surgery I have again bleeding gums daily.
I am so disappointed that the cure (maybe even temporary) is just in front of my eyes but I can’t take it without prescription from doctor.
I have no idea how to convince doctor that I have bacterial overgrowth in my guts, so I need to take antiseptic/ antibiotic drugs against them. Even I don’t know which antiseptics or antibiotics should I try.
I remember that during last 6-7 months sometimes I’ve been telling myself that something is eating me from the inside out. Maybe I became a bit paranoiac about it but the effects of antibiotics made me much more sure. And yes, the pain in my left wrist has also reduced almost by half for 1.5 month after surgery.

I am sorry for the unorganized information but I couldn’t express myself differently.
That was my experience which I thought would be useful to share with you.

 

[CiggyTardust]

Interesting finding here. Dug this up after searching for info on l. reuteri as it's been shown to increase the size of testes in rats.

Two years ago I was being dumb and taking silver hydrosol + a probiotic yeast by the name of Saccharomyces Boulardii to try and reset my gut and improve digestive issues I'd been having. During that time I had a very generous serving of shrimp and oysters. The reaction (throat constriction, intestinal distress, weakness, brain fog, coldness, shakiness) lasted for a couple days afterward. I'd eaten shellfish for years before that without issue. I've never been able to eat shellfish of any kind since without a recurrence of symptoms. It's terrible. I've since stayed away from probiotics of all kinds.

 

[seraph94]

I don’t know if it is exactly the cause but I started to have little joint pain on left wrist after starting to use lactobacillus probiotic supplements. It is already 3 years but that little pain is still there. It is like when I put my weight on my left wrist and try to make circular movement of my wrist I feel pain.
Now I see that above I already posted about it :)

 

[CiggyTardust]

Circling back to this thread with some additional thoughts as most of the comments so far don't actually address the study cited by OP. A few things I noticed after scanning through the study:

1) "Dietary resistant starch" ameliorated the negative effects of L. Reuteri
2) These are "Germ-free" mice that have essentially been sterilized of microorganisms

The conclusions suggested by this study, in my view, are overly-reductionistic to the point of absurdity. One of my main frustrations with the RP community is this tendency toward myopically isolating specific processes in the body be they cellular, hormonal or metabolic, and then using these extremely complex processes in isolation to draw conclusions about what is good or bad for everyone. It's too mechanistic and reductionistic. The body is infinitely complex. The microbiome consisting of trillions of microorganisms? We are talking galactic scales of complexity.

Apply this to a study which sterilizes the microbiome of mice (as unnatural a situation as you can imagine) and then introduces a single microorganism to study its effects. In a natural environment, trillions of microorganisms are living in a mind-bogglingly complex web of interrelationships that would not be reproduced in a study like this one. Many of those relationships between countless different species of bacteria, yeast and fungi likely help balance, temper and ameliorate any negative effects that you'd see if any of them were introduced in isolation.

This study also points out that diet (specifically containing dietary resistant starch) helps to mitigate the negative Lupus-inducing effects seen. Diet is just one variable among many that isn't addressed by the silly conclusion, "L. Reuteri causes Lupus!!!"

At the end of the day I don't think it's a very good study* and I don't think it's reasonable to draw any meaningful conclusions about the deleterious (or beneficial) effects of consuming L. Reuteri (a strain originally found in human breast milk). I'd wager that if you sterilized your digestive tract and introduced any single microorganism in isolation, most would cause disorder and disease.

*Edit: I should say I'm not commenting on the quality of the study but instead the conclusions drawn in this thread

 

[Perry Staltic]

Circling back to this thread with some additional thoughts as most of the comments so far don't actually address the study cited by OP. A few things I noticed after scanning through the study:

1) "Dietary resistant starch" ameliorated the negative effects of L. Reuteri
2) These are "Germ-free" mice that have essentially been sterilized of microorganisms

The conclusions suggested by this study, in my view, are overly-reductionistic to the point of absurdity. One of my main frustrations with the RP community is this tendency toward myopically isolating specific processes in the body be they cellular, hormonal or metabolic, and then using these extremely complex processes in isolation to draw conclusions about what is good or bad for everyone. It's too mechanistic and reductionistic. The body is infinitely complex. The microbiome consisting of trillions of microorganisms? We are talking galactic scales of complexity.

Apply this to a study which sterilizes the microbiome of mice (as unnatural a situation as you can imagine) and then introduces a single microorganism to study its effects. In a natural environment, trillions of microorganisms are living in a mind-bogglingly complex web of interrelationships that would not be reproduced in a study like this one. Many of those relationships between countless different species of bacteria, yeast and fungi likely help balance, temper and ameliorate any negative effects that you'd see if any of them were introduced in isolation.

This study also points out that diet (specifically containing dietary resistant starch) helps to mitigate the negative Lupus-inducing effects seen. Diet is just one variable among many that isn't addressed by the silly conclusion, "L. Reuteri causes Lupus!!!"

At the end of the day I don't think it's a very good study and I don't think it's reasonable to draw any meaningful conclusions about the deleterious (or beneficial) effects of consuming L. Reuteri (a strain originally found in human breast milk). I'd wager that if you sterilized your digestive tract and introduced any single microorganism in isolation, most would cause disorder and disease.

One can find numerous studies on the beneficial effects of L. reuteri. One very beneficial thing is that it promotes butyrate production.

 

[CiggyTardust]

One can find numerous studies on the beneficial effects of L. reuteri. One very beneficial thing is that it promotes butyrate production.

I've seen many, many studies pointing to the benefits. This is one of the only ones I've seen suggesting deleterious effects. Let's be honest, most guys that know about it just want bigger balls