A case of Wilson's syndrome with normal tests

[BearWithMe]

Damn, I have used antidepressants and neuroleptics too. It has been 18 years since I stopped. But I feel it changed me permanently and caused a lot of chronic health issues

 

[BearWithMe]

Did you took the antidepressants before or after the copper deficiency / toxicity symptoms started?

 

[Daniil]

Did you took the antidepressants before or after the copper deficiency / toxicity symptoms started?

I took it as a child, and after that.

To be honest, I don't think it's their fault. At the very least, they were unlikely to cause liver problems. Do you have any liver symptoms?

 

[BearWithMe]

I took it as a child, and after that.

To be honest, I don't think it's their fault. At the very least, they were unlikely to cause liver problems. Do you have any liver symptoms?

Yes, I can't properly digest fat. Fat is giving me strong nausea and bloating.

My grandma have symptoms very similar to mine. She also took antidepressants and neuroleptics. Might be coincidence.

 

[Daniil]

Yes, I can't properly digest fat. Fat is giving me strong nausea and bloating.

My grandma have symptoms very similar to mine. She also took antidepressants and neuroleptics. Might be coincidence.

It may be the opposite, that because of Wilson's syndrome, she began to have mental problems and now it just progresses. And the genes were passed on to you.

 

[Daniil]

I went to the ophthalmologist today, but she didn't find Kaiser's rings.

 

[Astolfo]

Now I thought that maybe we are just copper deficits. And all the "toxicity" is due to additives.

Literally every source on internet says copper toxicity = elevated anxiety. You are most likely copper toxic and I'm most likely deficient. ButI have no idea why eating 400 gr of liver throughout a week didn't helped me massively. I have elevated estrogen too, so my body should had absorbed much more copper from foods I have eaten since a long time. It doesn't make sense how I can be copper deficient. But It doesn't look like I'm toxic in it either.

 

[Daniil]

I seem to feel better with a low-copper diet. Only for some reason, my nose was stuck. Maybe it's just a coincidence, and I got sick...

 

[Astolfo]

All these people are right that body is deficient in bioavailable copper. Bioavailable means ceruloplasmin copper. Ceruloplasmin goes up only in fast oxidation. Feeding copper in slow oxidation simply will lower ceruloplasmin even more. You can test it yourself if you have low ceruloplasmin.

Slow oxidizers are deficient in bioavailable copper, their ceruloplasmin is low. If you feed them copper, ceruloplasmin will go even LOWER. Low ceruloplasmin shows the body does not need copper at this time. Ceruloplasmin goes up with the thyroid hormone, since copper is used to slow down the thyroid .

this is why in slow oxidation ceruloplasmin will be low, and body will not need much copper or iron, and these metals will build up in the liver, if person overeats.

Look at hairtests of Herrfish Raincoast. This is what happens when someone eat copper in slow oxidiation. You get IBS, you get colitis. You are screwed.

then it takes about 6 months to chelate this copper from brain and liver. And it is not pretty when you do it. Itgives sypmpoms.

I personally stayed for 6 months on zinc and manganese and at first had huge symptoms , when copper started to come out.
The best thing I did was to chelate it.

People with low adrenals feel a little bit better when they tank their metabolism with copper. Since copper tanks thyroid. and lowers thyroid demand for adrenaline.

Never take copper with low ceruloplasmin

When your adrenaline creation goes down, copper starts building up.

But here he says slow oxidizers stops absorbing copper.

This is why if you have low copper on the hairtest, chelating copper will not achieve results, your problem is other metals in mitochondria which create that Fenton reaction. Body stops copper absorption in slow oxidation, so in most cases you are low on copper in the cell, your absorption is lowered and you dont need it and some feel some deficiency symptoms. This is available and not available copper. All what is said online is just weird nonsense.
like raising ceruloplasmin etc. Ceruloplasmin will be raised only when your body goes into a faster metabolism, since copper lowers thyroid. Morley Robbins and other people are clueless on this topic. Feeding people liver which is high on copper and iron, when people have high Fenton reaction as it is .
People need to get rid of hydroxyl radicals, and this will allow the body to increase metabolism , which will increase copper and iron absorption and usage.

There are just too many conflicting comments. I didn't get any bad symptoms when I ate 400 gr of liver in a week. It actually completely stopped my bowel problems for temporarily.

I mentioned before that finasteride, lowers DHT and increases t and estro, could downregulate estro receptor,

estrogen is what increases ceruloplasmin and copper absorption in the body.


but ceruloplasmin usually rises with ACTh, and ACTH rises with higher metabolism and potassium levels


this is why if you take cortisol, it lowers ACTH, and ceruloplasmin goes down. and copper absorption also

 

[Gustav3Y]

Liver is way too complex (A, B12, B2, iron, copper, choline, amino-acids, cholesterol, etc) to be compare to supplementing copper alone.

I have never noticed any increased activity or the verbal kick from chicken liver that I could get sometimes from sporadic 1mg or 2mg of copper supplementation. Just sharing, not saying this is good or bad.
I cannot expect this to be the same for everyone, but there could be a possibility others are like that, probably most that do wish to share experiences in text.

 

[BearWithMe]

Chicken liver is surprisingly low in copper. 100g of chicken liver contains just 0.5mg of copper.

The best source of copper is duck liver (6mg/100g), rabbit liver and goat liver.

Interestingly, I like the taste of duck and rabbit liver the best. Never have tried goat liver.

 

[Gustav3Y]

Yes, chicken liver is low in copper, but I usually had 200grams cooked often 2 times per day, sporadically. So that adds up to 1 to 2mg of copper per day, along all there rest the chicken liver has.

 

[KurtisL]

Couldn't copper toxicity be tested by simple dietary restriction of copper? It should stay constant if you restrict dietary copper & are copper toxic but fall if you are truly deficient in it..

 

[Gustav3Y]

Zinc supplements were always causing flare-up of my symptoms.

I understand as it does the same to me,
In may case what it does mainly it is exacerbate discopathy issues and cervical spine cause issues, thus increasing the pain those regions, leading to migraines or heavy migraines and nausea.
As far as I have seen a rich mean in chicken gizzards also causes this, not only a supplemental form of zinc.
Not saying that Zinc is the cause of my issues, just that it can and almost always worsens my problems, at least in the last 1-2years.

 

[Daniil]

Chicken liver is surprisingly low in copper. 100g of chicken liver contains just 0.5mg of copper.

The best source of copper is duck liver (6mg/100g), rabbit liver and goat liver.

Interestingly, I like the taste of duck and rabbit liver the best. Never have tried goat liver.

I think it's related to K2. I have a theory that people like products with K2.

 

[Daniil]

Yes, I also have problems with zinc supplements. I stopped taking it a long time ago. Zinc toxicity also exists, although little is written about it on the Internet. Zinc toxicity can mess up copper metabolism and (I think) cause histamine problems. I also know that EMF sensitivity may be related to zinc toxicity.