92% Of Polled Russians Want To Return To The USSR

[michael94]

It is incredible how a new generation has been so deeply indoctrinated with all this Socialist Neo-Marxist Garbage. It is very Sad. You either believe in Freedom or all this Socialist Garbage , can't have both.

American free speech is theoretical. Free speech can in practicality be observed in degrees not absolutes. The degree of freedom of speech has been shrinking constantly since the end of the second World War. It is an oversimplification to say Free Speech is only dictated by laws. Free speech is dictated by all consequences that can come from what you say, punishment under the law is only one subset of these consequences.

 

[Lenin]

As an old anarchist friend says:
"People doesn't want to be free, they just want a <<good master>>"

 

[Lenin]

American free speech is theoretical. Free speech can in practicality be observed in degrees not absolutes. The degree of freedom of speech has been shrinking constantly since the end of the second World War. It is an oversimplification to say Free Speech is only dictated by laws. Free speech is dictated by all consequences that can come from what you say, punishment under the law is only one subset of these consequences.

So? The main point I think is that the state doesn't interfere with your freedom of speech/thinking. It's obvious that everything have consequences, you can't say you hate all atheists and then asking an atheist to hire you in his company. You surely have the right to say it, the state doesn't limit it, but you have to assume the consequences of doing so. Freedom of speech is not equal to freedom of consequences of what you say.

 

[No_Energy]

No_Energy said: ↑
It is incredible how a new generation has been so deeply indoctrinated with all this Socialist Neo-Marxist Garbage. It is very Sad. You either believe in Freedom or all this Socialist Garbage , can't have both.

American free speech is theoretical. Free speech can in practicality be observed in degrees not absolutes. The degree of freedom of speech has been shrinking constantly since the end of the second World War. It is an oversimplification to say Free Speech is only dictated by laws. Free speech is dictated by all consequences that can come from what you say, punishment under the law is only one subset of these consequences.

I mean FREEDOM, in many ways, not only speech. But even in this form, taking away your freedom of speech, you can see this Leftist Marxist Socialist Garbage operating.

 

[Lenin]

I don't trust Ray on anything political. He always seem to take Chinas side and he avoids criticizing China for its many well documented human rights abuses. And in the next sentence he talks about (real) American imperialist crimes and how the KKK runs American police departments or whatever. Very strange indeed. It's very ironic that someone who calls himself anti-authoritarian takes the side of one of the most openly authoritarian governments of the world. To me this means that he's probably completely deluded when it comes to Soviet Russia as well. I haven't yet done a lot of my own reading on Soviet Russia though so I can't speak too much on that specifically, however Chinas extreme and open authoritarianism is there for everyone to see, today.

I don't even look at Ray's point of view on the matter. I have lived in one of the most socialist countries in Latinamerica and also the most capitalist, and I have never known anyone from this more capitalist country (Chile) moving to Venezuela, even though is quiet easy, because purchase power of average chileans is way higher than venezuelans. Historically people moves from the free and capitalist country to the authoritarian socialist ones...anyone that denies it most be in an intense denial.

 

[Energizer]

I don't even look at Ray's point of view on the matter. I have lived in one of the most socialist countries in Latinamerica and also the most capitalist, and I have never known anyone from this more capitalist country (Chile) moving to Venezuela, even though is quiet easy, because purchase power of average chileans is way higher than venezuelans. Historically people moves from the free and capitalist country to the authoritarian socialist ones...anyone that denies it most be in an intense denial.

I wouldn't be surprised that part of the reason Venezuela sucks is because America has been consistently involved in color revolutions in Latin America for decades, and Venezuela is just the latest interest of the CIA, funding opposition movements and the US gov't putting sanctions on their economy as of late and even trying to assassinate Maduro. I'm not really sure why the US gov't is so obessed with Venezuela, is it another case of resources, geopolitical advancement? Some claim it's because Venezuela is an oil-rich country, maybe that's part of the obsession.

That being said, I'm not gonna claim Venezualan socialism or the system it has in place is better than American hyper capitalism, having not lived there it would be hard for me to really compare. But I could see the logic in having a centrally planned socialist economy or price-fixing on certain goods and how that might protect the poor from absurdly priced goods. So there could be advantages to it. I think people have to be pretty dense to defend capitalism in America and confuse relative prosperity and wealth with capitalism. If only the small minority are well-off in America with a high standard of living, and the majority live like peasants, it can hardly be said to be wealthy in the true sense of the word. The United States is fast becoming a 3rd world banana republic with one of the worst education systems in the world, rampant poverty, homelessness, extreme income inequality.

As for the Chilean system, ask people how they felt about Pinochet. Ask them how they felt about Milton Friedman, the hypercapitalist "Chicago boy" who was heralded and given all kinds of awards in the Western press, and was Pinochet's economic advisor, destroyed the Chilean economy. It seems to some extent some of their resources were put back in the hands of state ownership only after they realized Friedman's brutal economic experiment for Chileans was a total disaster and lead to widespread poverty and famine.

 

[michael94]

I wouldn't be surprised that part of the reason Venezuela sucks is because America has been consistently involved in color revolutions in Latin America for decades, and Venezuela is just the latest interest of the CIA, funding opposition movements and the US gov't putting sanctions on their economy as of late and even trying to assassinate Maduro.

That being said, I'm not gonna claim Venezualan socialism or the system it has in place is better than American hyper capitalism, having not lived there it would be hard for me to really compare. But I could see the logic in having a centrally planned socialist economy or price-fixing on certain goods and how that might protect the poor from absurdly priced goods. So there could be advantages to it. I think people have to be pretty dense to defend capitalism in America and confuse relative prosperity and wealth with capitalism. If only the small minority are well-off in America with a high standard of living, and the majority live like peasants, it can hardly be said to be wealthy in the true sense of the word. The United States is fast becoming a 3rd world banana republic with one of the worst education systems in the world, rampant poverty, homelessness, extreme income inequality.

I am not a "Capitalist" but i think it is crazy to say the majority live like peasants. Even Americans on government assistance have a relatively comfortable existence ( although certainly theres more to life than being comfortable ). And quality of life skyrockets once you reach the median thresholds of American income. Homelessness is the main problem I would say out of the things you mentioned.

 

[Energizer]

I am not a "Capitalist" but i think it is crazy to say the majority live like peasants. Even Americans on government assistance have a relatively comfortable existence ( although certainly theres more to life than being comfortable ). And quality of life skyrockets once you reach the median thresholds of American income. Homelessness is the main problem I would say.

Well, if you don't make much money in America, your quality of life is probably gonna be pretty low. You can find all kinds of ways to minimize your cost of living and forego having a family and other things, but it doesn't change the fact. No matter what word you use for it. That is a reality.

 

[postman]

I wouldn't be surprised that part of the reason Venezuela sucks is because America has been consistently involved in color revolutions in Latin America for decades, and Venezuela is just the latest interest of the CIA, funding opposition movements and the US gov't putting sanctions on their economy as of late and even trying to assassinate Maduro. I'm not really sure why the US gov't is so obessed with Venezuela, is it another case of resources, geopolitical advancement? Some claim it's because Venezuela is an oil-rich country, maybe that's part of the obsession.

That being said, I'm not gonna claim Venezualan socialism or the system it has in place is better than American hyper capitalism, having not lived there it would be hard for me to really compare. But I could see the logic in having a centrally planned socialist economy or price-fixing on certain goods and how that might protect the poor from absurdly priced goods. So there could be advantages to it. I think people have to be pretty dense to defend capitalism in America and confuse relative prosperity and wealth with capitalism. If only the small minority are well-off in America with a high standard of living, and the majority live like peasants, it can hardly be said to be wealthy in the true sense of the word. The United States is fast becoming a 3rd world banana republic with one of the worst education systems in the world, rampant poverty, homelessness, extreme income inequality.

I agree with you on Venezuela. Chavez was much more competent than Maduro, but he should have reinvested more in his country, like Gaddafi. Obviously you're still likely to just get subverted or blown up no matter what you do.

American middle class is still wealthier than just about everywhere else (excluding city states and some other small countries), have more purchasing power, have larger houses, have access to more healthcare etc.

Americans eat out daily. Many skilled labor job have 2x, 3x, or 4x wages compared to Europe. But minimum wage workers are definitely better off in Europe. The economy in the west will go to ***t as soon as the central banks stop pumping trillions of dollars into it.

 

[postman]

But wouldn't you say that America has been compromised since 1913 with the Federal Reserve giving private interests defining control over the money supply. From 1920-1960 Sight Deposits ( Bank Account Money ) was definitively pushing out cash as the dominant form of money. In doing so the Private Banks achieved what the 1844 Bank Charter Act in England set out to put an end to, Bank led money creation on the basis of shrinking Reserves which could be obtained post-facto if need be. Money is really a simple matter that has been made "complex" for the benefit of Financial Parasites. So when we say America is free we must be doing so with exceedingly low standards.

Yes I agree but it took them a couple of decades before they got control of the presidential office and congress.

 

[Energizer]

I agree with you on Venezuela. Chavez was much more competent than Maduro, but he should have reinvested more in his country, like Gaddafi. Obviously you're still likely to just get subverted or blown up no matter what you do.

American middle class is still wealthier than just about everywhere else (excluding city states and some other small countries), have more purchasing power, have larger houses, have access to more healthcare etc.

Americans eat out daily. Many skilled labor job have 2x, 3x, or 4x wages compared to Europe. But minimum wage workers are definitely better off in Europe. The economy in the west will go to ***t as soon as the central banks stop pumping trillions of dollars into it.

True, you can make more in America relative to Europe, but you also tend to spend more because of the higher relative cost of certain goods, and housing is ridiculous so it eats up a lot of that income. Compare the cost of renting a flat in Berlin with say, an apartment in Los Angeles, there is no contest, Berlin is much more affordable in that regard. The housing market ensures people can be making a very high income, and still blow most of their money just on rent alone. In larger cities that becomes more apparent. Owning a house, you at least don't have that same problem, but then, you have high property taxes in certain states. I'm not sure what the point of the high property taxes are because they just make it hard for anyone with a low income to actually keep a house. It seems like the only way to even afford a house on a low income is to build it out in the country yourself in a state with low property taxes. And then you have to hire a contractor to make sure the building is up to code if you don't know those things yourself.

It seems like whenever people like someone in Latin America or they get someone good elected, our government in the US just takes them out, so the locals can't ever get anyone that helps them for long. They can't catch a break.

 

[Lenin]

I wouldn't be surprised that part of the reason Venezuela sucks is because America has been consistently involved in color revolutions in Latin America for decades, and Venezuela is just the latest interest of the CIA, funding opposition movements and the US gov't putting sanctions on their economy as of late and even trying to assassinate Maduro. I'm not really sure why the US gov't is so obessed with Venezuela, is it another case of resources, geopolitical advancement? Some claim it's because Venezuela is an oil-rich country, maybe that's part of the obsession.

That being said, I'm not gonna claim Venezualan socialism or the system it has in place is better than American hyper capitalism, having not lived there it would be hard for me to really compare. But I could see the logic in having a centrally planned socialist economy or price-fixing on certain goods and how that might protect the poor from absurdly priced goods. So there could be advantages to it. I think people have to be pretty dense to defend capitalism in America and confuse relative prosperity and wealth with capitalism. If only the small minority are well-off in America with a high standard of living, and the majority live like peasants, it can hardly be said to be wealthy in the true sense of the word. The United States is fast becoming a 3rd world banana republic with one of the worst education systems in the world, rampant poverty, homelessness, extreme income inequality.

As for the Chilean system, ask people how they felt about Pinochet. Ask them how they felt about Milton Friedman, the hypercapitalist "Chicago boy" who was heralded and given all kinds of awards in the Western press, and was Pinochet's economic advisor, destroyed the Chilean economy. It seems to some extent some of their resources were put back in the hands of state ownership only after they realized Friedman's brutal economic experiment for Chileans was a total disaster and lead to widespread poverty and famine.

Man I'm gonna be sincere, just right when I read this "and the US gov't putting sanctions on their economy as of late", I stopped reading it. It's obvious that you have NO CLUE on economics and Venezuelan recent history, because it's obvious for anyone with both things that socialist economy in Venezuela was collapsing way before, it's the typical excuse of someone who has no idea of economics on why socialist economy fails. I recommend you to read about the economical impossibility of socialism to calculate prices. Jesús Huerta de Soto has a book that I think is called "socialism economic calculation and entrepreneurship". I'm not even gonna waste a second on any further thing from you before you read that.

Yes I agree but it took them a couple of decades before they got control of the presidential office and congress.

Neither gonna invest in your posts, because of this: "I agree with you on Venezuela. Chavez was much more competent than Maduro"
You obviously again have not a single clue. Chávez wasn't more competent than Maduro, both are socialists, their economy is designed to collapse, the main difference between Maduro and Chávez is easy to see in a simple graph: Chávez got oil prices way higher than Maduro, and for most of the presidents since 60 years ago in Venezuela, that's the main difference between them, and how socialist was one or another, because all of them were socialist or light socialist (social democrats).

Not gonna keep wasting time, unsuscribing right now. This is so sick coming from people talking against "authoritarism", defending such monsters and such atrocities with almost ridiculous arguments.

 

[postman]

Man I'm gonna be sincere, just right when I read this "and the US gov't putting sanctions on their economy as of late", I stopped reading it. It's obvious that you have NO CLUE on economics and Venezuelan recent history, because it's obvious for anyone with both things that socialist economy in Venezuela was collapsing way before, it's the typical excuse of someone who has no idea of economics on why socialist economy fails. I recommend you to read about the economical impossibility of socialism to calculate prices. Jesús Huerta de Soto has a book that I think is called "socialism economic calculation and entrepreneurship". I'm not even gonna waste a second on any further thing from you before you read that.


Neither gonna invest in your posts, because of this: "I agree with you on Venezuela. Chavez was much more competent than Maduro"
You obviously again have not a single clue. Chávez wasn't more competent than Maduro, both are socialists, their economy is designed to collapse, the main difference between Maduro and Chávez is easy to see in a simple graph: Chávez got oil prices way higher than Maduro, and for most of the presidents since 60 years ago in Venezuela, that's the main difference between them, and how socialist was one or another, because all of them were socialist or light socialist (social democrats).

Not gonna keep wasting time, unsuscribing right now. This is so sick coming from people talking against "authoritarism", defending such monsters and such atrocities with almost ridiculous arguments.

Venezuela was doing relatively well under Chavez, when oil prices were still very high. Chavez policies lifted millions of people out of poverty. When one of the richest countries in the world in terms of natural resources has 50% of its population living below the poverty line, something is wrong.

For these small and poor nations, most of the time the only option to having your natural resources plundered by imperalistic super powers is to nationalize them. There is absolutely nothing "anti-authoritarian" about letting the CIA murder your leaders, install puppets, and steal natural resources. Nationalizing natural resources is one of the smallest infractions on personal rights, nobody built that oil, nobody invented that oil, nobody caused that oil to be there, and therefore you could easily make legitimate arguments that the whole country should benefit from those natural resources. Chavez biggest fault was not reinvesting that oil money into infrastructure and industry, he should have lessened the country's dependence on selling oil instead of increasing it.

This idea that America became wealthy because of anarcho-capitalist market fundamentalism is a complete lie, America became wealthy because of The American System (very high tariffs and plenty of internal investment by the government American School (economics) - Wikipedia), and also freedom and individualism making it a breeding ground for inventors and the best place to be for foreign inventors. Protestant work ethic and many other reasons as well.

Americans and smallhats still can't stop seething about Chavez, they tried to kill him over and over again, maybe it was they who finally gave him cancer.

 

[michael94]

Man I'm gonna be sincere, just right when I read this "and the US gov't putting sanctions on their economy as of late", I stopped reading it. It's obvious that you have NO CLUE on economics and Venezuelan recent history, because it's obvious for anyone with both things that socialist economy in Venezuela was collapsing way before, it's the typical excuse of someone who has no idea of economics on why socialist economy fails. I recommend you to read about the economical impossibility of socialism to calculate prices. Jesús Huerta de Soto has a book that I think is called "socialism economic calculation and entrepreneurship". I'm not even gonna waste a second on any further thing from you before you read that.

What sort of things does Huerta de Soto talk about? I see he is Austrian school I would just like to hear what you gleaned from his work

 

[Energizer]

Man I'm gonna be sincere, just right when I read this "and the US gov't putting sanctions on their economy as of late", I stopped reading it. It's obvious that you have NO CLUE on economics and Venezuelan recent history, because it's obvious for anyone with both things that socialist economy in Venezuela was collapsing way before, it's the typical excuse of someone who has no idea of economics on why socialist economy fails. I recommend you to read about the economical impossibility of socialism to calculate prices. Jesús Huerta de Soto has a book that I think is called "socialism economic calculation and entrepreneurship". I'm not even gonna waste a second on any further thing from you before you read that.


Neither gonna invest in your posts, because of this: "I agree with you on Venezuela. Chavez was much more competent than Maduro"
You obviously again have not a single clue. Chávez wasn't more competent than Maduro, both are socialists, their economy is designed to collapse, the main difference between Maduro and Chávez is easy to see in a simple graph: Chávez got oil prices way higher than Maduro, and for most of the presidents since 60 years ago in Venezuela, that's the main difference between them, and how socialist was one or another, because all of them were socialist or light socialist (social democrats).

Not gonna keep wasting time, unsuscribing right now. This is so sick coming from people talking against "authoritarism", defending such monsters and such atrocities with almost ridiculous arguments.

Says the apologist for capitalism, suggesting I read a econ book from the hardline neoliberal ideology of The Austrian School to prove his point and ignoring the many color revolutions in South America and CIA sponsored military coups that have destabilized Chile, Venezuela, etc. Whether you realize it or not, those foreign interventions have had a huge negative effect on South America and contributed to destabilizing many economies including the Venezuelan economy. You should take your own advice and read some history, maybe you will realize you are indoctrinated and colonized into worshiping the Western system. Pinochet's advisor, Milton Friedman, was also very fond of conservative economics, like the Austrian School, even though he differed in some ways. BTW, I don't claim to know everything about the internal politics of Venezuela but it's simply ignorant to deny or ignore the impact of foreign interventionism in South America -- which is ongoing.

 

[No_Energy]

@Lenin, I'm sorry about what happened to Venezuela, and the suffering Venezuelans have been going through because of socialism. Socialism/Marxism destroying yet another south american country.

Energizer, and the other marxist here whose name I forgot, nothing new, indoctrinated little socialist Marxist pieces of ***t. useful idiots. enemies of freedom. Go live your Socialist dream in Venezuela or Cuba you little ***t! You don't know what Socialism is. You are just another blind indoctrinated idiot who can't see the obvious in front of you. nor all the poverty, suffering and violence caused by this garbage of a ideology! Go preach this trash you were indoctrinated with to someone who has lived under this marxist\socialist garbage. you kids need to be Slapped until you get some sense !

 

[MatheusPN]

@Lenin, I'm sorry about what happened to Venezuela, and the suffering Venezuelans have been going through because of socialism. Socialism/Marxism destroying yet another south american country.

Energizer, and the other marxist here whose name I forgot, nothing new, indoctrinated little socialist Marxist pieces of ***t. useful idiots. spreading socialism in America. Go live your Socialist dream in Venezuela or Cuba you little ***t! You don't know what Socialism is. You are just another blind indoctrinated idiot who can't see the obvious in front of you. nor all the poverty, suffering and violence caused by this garbage of a ideology! Go preach this trash you were indoctrinated with to someone who has lived under this marxist\socialist garbage. you kids need to be Slapped until you get some sense !

Don't be so emotional, mad authoritatian, why so hateful?
Venezuela wasn't socialistic, nor even a socialist controlled by the State, where's the self-work management? Its economy was/ is rent or wage labor based, and yes socialism can have a free market. In Venezuela the executive power is hegemonic.
Venezuela wasn't/ isn't a socialist, non-market economy. It is a market economy, it even has private companies.
If you think people don't understand socialism, can you enlighten us why every type of socialism is bad?

To Energizer point I will add that,
Brasil was and still is a colony. Look at Bolsonaro, he gives benefits to the US in exchange of nothing good for the Brasilians. Since when in Brasil, regime exchanges are controlled by the US, principally?

 

[Lenin]

What sort of things does Huerta de Soto talk about? I see he is Austrian school I would just like to hear what you gleaned from his work

There are lots of economy classes from him on youtube, but in spanish. He basically explains from what's economics, what is money, how price formation happens, which are the basic contracts (deposit, credit, etc). It's pretty easy to understand since his classes are usually in a simple and common language. I really recommend it to anyone to see his class 1 to 21, which is a pretty basic economics course that sadly most of the people have no idea. He demonstrate how absurd the socialist economic theory is and also why it is impossible to work (which was proven way before), it's all basically because prices are formed with two basic pre-requisites (which socialism represses and distorts): free transactions and money. Free transactions are not allowed in socialism, ex: price controls, state intervention preventing free trade between individuals, etc. And money, which the most relevant one is gold (stolen from people in US around 1.930, and later again with elimination of gold standard in the 70's), is usually state controlled and they print it like crazy to steal money from people without having to increase taxes (which is way more evident).
But if you don't know spanish, I suggest you to buy the english version of his book.

I don't know why this thing still notifies me about this thread, but anyway, postman, don't waste your time, I ran from Venezuela years ago, I ain't gonna read your stuff, you don't seem to understand about economics and basic history, when you see a graph showing oil prices and "wealth" or prosperity in Venezuela, you'll know why I'll keep on ignoring you, is extremely stupid to discuss this things when you don't know that 90%+ of Venezuela's GDP is from oil, and close to 95%+ is from minerals, and decades ago they are state controlled. Is too cheap to talk and try to appear like if you know things, but I know how you think because I was a leftist, I knew commies, I was almost a communist, I grew up in a 50+ years socialist country and I woke up from that bull****.

Energizer is also funny, didn't read the whole thing. He doesn't seem to know that precisely Pinochet was the one that rescued Chile from the communist, 30 years after that Chile was the most prosperous and free country of Latinamerica, now Venezuela following socialist recipes for almost 60 years is in an exodus, where Venezuelas dream about running away to Chile, or preferably with even more historically capitalist countries, like Switzerland, United States, New Zealand, etc. I get kinda bored of this leftists because I was one of them, I know almost every single excuse or "argument" they can give, because being there, done that. It would have being a good thing that Pinochet killed me when I was a socialist if I tried to put a bomb or conspire to drag millions to misery and poverty, but I was lucky, I got cured from that disease and I'm now enjoying what's left of his legacy, that sadly is being under heavy attack from the local leftists.

Being a leftist basically in my personal experience is closely tied to: envy, frustration, hatred, all negative stuff. One of the best guys to describe leftists was Theodore Kaczinsky in his manifesto. The most funny leftists aren't even those who are poor and want to steal from the successful ones, but those who live in wealthy countries and talk about socialism while drinking a scotch or with an iPhone in their hands, LOL, they don't even have the balls to live in a really socialist country, like Cuba, North Korea or Venezuela, they want to drag their neighbours to misery.

"Venezuela wasn't socialistic, nor even a socialist controlled by the State, where's the self-work management?"
Another guy who has no idea on economics. I have seen lots of cooperative companies failing, one after another, and just being a way to get access to state privileges. They tried it, it failed.
Socialism is state or colective ownership of means of production, which is what is being tried in Venezuela, it OBVIOUSLY failed, like expected since decades.
"and yes socialism can have a free market"
No, it can't. Because market can't be free if the state owns the means of production or regulates transactions with violence as threat, the more the state get's involved, the less free the economy. That's so absurd, is as absurd as saying "state capitalism". Capitalism requires money (which is not that crap that the FED prints) and free transactions.

"Venezuela wasn't/ isn't a socialist, non-market economy. It is a market economy, it even has private companies."
WTH are you talking about man? you have not a single clue. I even remember that once I tried to start a company, the state under a high inflation regulated earnings, this usually meant that you had two options: doing something ilegal or go bankrupt because inflation ate you alive. There's not free market in Venezuela, regulations are abundant and stupid AF. I'll tell you another so you stop that absurd idea you have: you can't legally own US Dollar bills, if a cop wants he can take them away from you because they forbid it years ago, you can't sell US dollar bills or buy or sell things in US dollars. How anyone in his 5 senses say such a things knowing it? do they pay you to fill this forum with propaganda?

 

[Lenin]

@Lenin, I'm sorry about what happened to Venezuela, and the suffering Venezuelans have been going through because of socialism. Socialism/Marxism destroying yet another south american country.

Energizer, and the other marxist here whose name I forgot, nothing new, indoctrinated little socialist Marxist pieces of ***t. useful idiots. enemies of freedom. Go live your Socialist dream in Venezuela or Cuba you little ***t! You don't know what Socialism is. You are just another blind indoctrinated idiot who can't see the obvious in front of you. nor all the poverty, suffering and violence caused by this garbage of a ideology! Go preach this trash you were indoctrinated with to someone who has lived under this marxist\socialist garbage. you kids need to be Slapped until you get some sense !

Thanks mate. This is actually disgusting to read such a propaganda here, in this "anti-authoritarian" forum. These guys are so indoctrinated they deny economic principles and even the most OBVIOUS things that actually happens everyday in those countries. As I said to a Chilean commie few months ago: let's do something, lets switch, I'll get you a house to live there, and you'll get a house for me to live here, and obviously he didn't even think about it. I am a capitalist advocate, and I live in the most capitalist country I can, I would even love to move to an even more capitalist country, like New Zealand or Switzerland, but I seriously doubt any of them would love to live in North Korea or Cuba or Venezuela, even thou is pretty cheap to move to those hells.

 

[Energizer]

There are lots of economy classes from him on youtube, but in spanish. He basically explains from what's economics, what is money, how price formation happens, which are the basic contracts (deposit, credit, etc). It's pretty easy to understand since his classes are usually in a simple and common language. I really recommend it to anyone to see his class 1 to 21, which is a pretty basic economics course that sadly most of the people have no idea. He demonstrate how absurd the socialist economic theory is and also why it is impossible to work (which was proven way before), it's all basically because prices are formed with two basic pre-requisites (which socialism represses and distorts): free transactions and money. Free transactions are not allowed in socialism, ex: price controls, state intervention preventing free trade between individuals, etc. And money, which the most relevant one is gold (stolen from people in US around 1.930, and later again with elimination of gold standard in the 70's), is usually state controlled and they print it like crazy to steal money from people without having to increase taxes (which is way more evident).
But if you don't know spanish, I suggest you to buy the english version of his book.

I don't know why this thing still notifies me about this thread, but anyway, postman, don't waste your time, I ran from Venezuela years ago, I ain't gonna read your stuff, you don't seem to understand about economics and basic history, when you see a graph showing oil prices and "wealth" or prosperity in Venezuela, you'll know why I'll keep on ignoring you, is extremely stupid to discuss this things when you don't know that 90%+ of Venezuela's GDP is from oil, and close to 95%+ is from minerals, and decades ago they are state controlled. Is too cheap to talk and try to appear like if you know things, but I know how you think because I was a leftist, I knew commies, I was almost a communist, I grew up in a 50+ years socialist country and I woke up from that bull****.

Energizer is also funny, didn't read the whole thing. He doesn't seem to know that precisely Pinochet was the one that rescued Chile from the communist, 30 years after that Chile was the most prosperous and free country of Latinamerica, now Venezuela following socialist recipes for almost 60 years is in an exodus, where Venezuelas dream about running away to Chile, or preferably with even more historically capitalist countries, like Switzerland, United States, New Zealand, etc. I get kinda bored of this leftists because I was one of them, I know almost every single excuse or "argument" they can give, because being there, done that. It would have being a good thing that Pinochet killed me when I was a socialist if I tried to put a bomb or conspire to drag millions to misery and poverty, but I was lucky, I got cured from that disease and I'm now enjoying what's left of his legacy, that sadly is being under heavy attack from the local leftists.

Being a leftist basically in my personal experience is closely tied to: envy, frustration, hatred, all negative stuff. One of the best guys to describe leftists was Theodore Kaczinsky in his manifesto. The most funny leftists aren't even those who are poor and want to steal from the successful ones, but those who live in wealthy countries and talk about socialism while drinking a scotch or with an iPhone in their hands, LOL, they don't even have the balls to live in a really socialist country, like Cuba, North Korea or Venezuela, they want to drag their neighbours to misery.

"Venezuela wasn't socialistic, nor even a socialist controlled by the State, where's the self-work management?"
Another guy who has no idea on economics. I have seen lots of cooperative companies failing, one after another, and just being a way to get access to state privileges. They tried it, it failed.
Socialism is state or colective ownership of means of production, which is what is being tried in Venezuela, it OBVIOUSLY failed, like expected since decades.
"and yes socialism can have a free market"
No, it can't. Because market can't be free if the state owns the means of production or regulates transactions with violence as threat, the more the state get's involved, the less free the economy. That's so absurd, is as absurd as saying "state capitalism". Capitalism requires money (which is not that crap that the FED prints) and free transactions.

"Venezuela wasn't/ isn't a socialist, non-market economy. It is a market economy, it even has private companies."
WTH are you talking about man? you have not a single clue. I even remember that once I tried to start a company, the state under a high inflation regulated earnings, this usually meant that you had two options: doing something ilegal or go bankrupt because inflation ate you alive. There's not free market in Venezuela, regulations are abundant and stupid AF. I'll tell you another so you stop that absurd idea you have: you can't legally own US Dollar bills, if a cop wants he can take them away from you because they forbid it years ago, you can't sell US dollar bills or buy or sell things in US dollars. How anyone in his 5 senses say such a things knowing it? do they pay you to fill this forum with propaganda?

"He doesn't seem to know that precisely Pinochet was the one that rescued Chile from the communist"

Frankly at this point I don't care anymore to debate socialism vs capitalism, you are a defender of the fascist dictator Pinochet who murdered his own people for the CIA's coup against Salvador Allende and destroyed the Chilean economy at the advice of Milton Friedman, this is beyond a waste of time.

Don't be so emotional, mad authoritatian, why so hateful?
Venezuela wasn't socialistic, nor even a socialist controlled by the State, where's the self-work management? Its economy was/ is rent or wage labor based, and yes socialism can have a free market. In Venezuela the executive power is hegemonic.
Venezuela wasn't/ isn't a socialist, non-market economy. It is a market economy, it even has private companies.
If you think people don't understand socialism, can you enlighten us why every type of socialism is bad?

To Energizer point I will add that,
Brasil was and still is a colony. Look at Bolsonaro, he gives benefits to the US in exchange of nothing good for the Brasilians. Since when in Brasil, regime exchanges are controlled by the US, principally?

Thanks for your comments. I agree, the US gov't and its NATO allies are responsible for nearly all of these regime changes. Correct me if I'm wrong, looking at the history of CIA-sponsored coups in Brazil it seems this has been going on since as early as the 1960s with the overthrow of President João Goulart. And now apparently Brazil may be becoming a member of NATO as well. A true sign that the country is under such corrupt leadership as if more was needed: Brazil Is About to Become An "Unofficial" NATO Member - Global Research

This ever-growing list reflects the true nature of capitalism / imperialism. I don't think any capitalists in this thread could provide a reasonable defense of this endless predatory behavior. After all, imperialism is the logical end result of capitalism so it's not too surprising for those of us who understand the biggest war-mongers are where the ideology of capitalism and capital accumulation took hold to the most extreme degree, bolstered by an ever-growing military-industrial complex.

Though forms of it have existed to certain degrees in world history for centuries, never has it been more "refined" by the notion of "greed is good", extreme individualism, Malthusian Social Darwinism "survival of the fittest" (the barbaric idea of having to justify your right to exist economically), capital accumulation, people like Margaret Thatcher who championed the "free market" (the same "free" market that produces the big tech corporate monopolies) and backed by such a large military industrial complex. List of US "Regime Changes":

• China 1949 to early 1960s
• Albania 1949-53
• East Germany 1950s
• Iran 1953 *
• Guatemala 1954 *
• Costa Rica mid-1950s
• Syria 1956-7
• Egypt 1957
• Indonesia 1957-8
• British Guiana 1953-64 *
• Iraq 1963 *
• North Vietnam 1945-73
• Cambodia 1955-70 *
• Laos 1958 *, 1959 *, 1960 *
• Ecuador 1960-63 *
• Congo 1960 *
• France 1965
• Brazil 1962-64 *
• Dominican Republic 1963 *
• Cuba 1959 to present
• Bolivia 1964 *
• Indonesia 1965 *
• Ghana 1966 *
• Chile 1964-73 *
• Greece 1967 *
• Costa Rica 1970-71
• Bolivia 1971 *
• Australia 1973-75 *
• Angola 1975, 1980s
• Zaire 1975
• Portugal 1974-76 *
• Jamaica 1976-80 *
• Seychelles 1979-81
• Chad 1981-82 *
• Grenada 1983 *
• South Yemen 1982-84
• Suriname 1982-84
• Fiji 1987 *
• Libya 1980s
• Nicaragua 1981-90 *
• Panama 1989 *
• Bulgaria 1990 *
• Albania 1991 *
• Iraq 1991
• Afghanistan 1980s *
• Somalia 1993
• Yugoslavia 1999-2000 *
• Ecuador 2000 *
• Afghanistan 2001 *
• Venezuela 2002 *
• Iraq 2003 *
• Haiti 2004 *
• Somalia 2007 to present
• Libya 2011*
• Syria 2012

The length of this list alone is disturbing.

“US-Gate”? Overthrowing Other People’s Governments: The Master List of U.S. “Regime Changes”

Another interesting article outlining many of the CIA's Color Revolutions and their strategies for creating these conditions:
C.I.A. Color Revolutions

CIA color revolutions have rarely succeeded, but they are increasing in frequency nevertheless. A CIA color revolution is when CIA operatives try to agitate local people to incite riots to try to overthrow governments. CIA color revolutions are a cash bonanza to CIA people, criminal beyond any shadow of a doubt, disastrous on the rare occasions they succeed, for example Iran in the 1950s and the Ukraine in the 2010s and disastrous when they fail. 2 recent examples of failed CIA color revolutions are Iran in 2017 and Nicaragua in Spring 2018. Plus there is a pending color revolution in Cuba.

Finally, this report will touch on why the CIA people do not care if their crimes, attempted color revolutions for example, have success or not. That is because these crimes, such as attempted color revolutions, are a huge cash bonanza to thousands of CIA officers and tens of thousands of their closest friends, relatives and lovers.

The decorated US marine corps major general, Smedley Butler, described war as

...a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small 'inside' group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.

What better economic system and ideology for war-profiteering than that of capitalism backed by the force of the US Empire?