92% Of Polled Russians Want To Return To The USSR

S-VV

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Now I realize everything I grew up believing, including about politics, was a lie because I have been trying to read everything I can get my hands on regarding Russia and the Soviet Union
Baby's first redpill. It would be cute, if it weren't so cringe.
 

Rickyman

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In a public TV poll, asking people if they wanted to return to the Soviet Union, 92% said "Yes."

92% россиян хотят вернуться в СССР. Мнение Медведева: "идеализировать Советский Союз не надо".

"In support of their opinion, respondents expressed various arguments. Here are the most frequent arguments:

  • There was confidence in the future. People were not afraid of the future. They were not afraid of losing their jobs, earnings, etc.
  • In the Soviet Union, there was affordable and free medicine.
  • There was free and high-quality education.
  • Relations between people were different, they were better. They were not afraid to leave the key under the Mat, there was no such social inequality and income gap."


Were you born and raised in Russia and currently living there ?
 

Max23

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People don´t have to fear the future when they think that the Soviet Union would be better than the current, because it happened in the past and so appears a fixed entity. But the SU would also be evolving and they would go along with vaccinations and the corona crisis. The union would get poorer and poorer and eventually collapse because the retarded economic model is not sustainable. The bosses of the kolkhoz would pour gasoline on the ground, because they were getting paid the more they „use“. This kind of bureucracy was widespead, the explosion of Chernobyl was only logical.

You are on the wrong track @Energizer. There practically are no families in this part of the world that hasn´t members that were killed, departed, tortured, imprisoned or otherwise damaged by the communists. The way I see it is the American public downplays the atrocitites of communism and overplays the holocaust. Nobody even knows in America about the great famine in Ukraine, that killed millions of Ukrainians and that was caused by Stalin.

Some things were better in the SU for sure. The education was not high quality. It was filled with ideology and censorship. With every action you had to improve communism. For example writers had heavy censorship, as well as other artist. One thing that was better was health. There were no western diseases. At least you had your health for some time. People didn´t have to be sick as children. There practically were no allergies, no autism, no weird autoimmune diseases. Compared to the USA it was better that people had no hope, so they could just give up and relax. Sometimes I think the Americans are sick in the head, trying to fix absolutely everything. Also the fear of death sometimes feels utterly antihuman. I think the positives of the SU can be achieved without massmurder, tyranny and opression.

Overall the Soviet Union was a failure. Though I think living in the 80s (before Chernobyl) Soviet Union would be wishworthy compared to the slavery that is about to come.
 
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Energizer

Energizer

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stalin.jpg


(Not my email, one of the commenters on Danny Roddy's channel posted that).

Grover Furr's personal website, includes information about all of his books and many of his articles:
Welcome to Grover Furr's Home Page

I find it ironic usually the people that so vehemently attack communism don't seem to realize the US is already a Democratic-Republican (two sides of the same wing essentially) one-party state that protects only the interests of the rich (oligarchy).

"For historical and cultural (and political) reasons,
however, the Soviet scientist is likely to see everything he
does as having social significance and ideological overtones,
apart from any urging he might get from the bureaucrats to
praise the insights of Lenin and Stalin into his particular field.
Sometimes these paragraphs of praise that are
included in occasional scientific papers seem simply bizarre
to a westerner, who is used to politicians being politicians,
and scientists being scientists. But the fact is that both Lenin
and Stalin were remarkable intellectuals who believed it was
their political responsibility to be very well informed about
cultural and scientific matters. It is this same attitude which
makes the Soviet scientist likely to choose problems with
social significance, and to interpret his work in terms
of a large historical framework.
While an American scientist
undoubtedly does work within a definite intellectual
framework, the framework is mostly tacit, and serves to justify
the collection of "mere facts." P. 40-41, Mind and Tissue

 
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michael94

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stalin.jpg


(Not my email, one of the commenters on Danny Roddy's channel posted that).

Grover Furr's personal website, includes all his information about all of his books and many of his articles:
Welcome to Grover Furr's Home Page

I find it ironic usually the people that so vehemently attack communism don't seem to realize the US is already a Democratic-Republican (two sides of the same wing essentially) one-party state that protects only the interests of the rich (oligarchy).


wow interesting
 

LUH 3417

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stalin.jpg


(Not my email, one of the commenters on Danny Roddy's channel posted that).

Grover Furr's personal website, includes information about all of his books and many of his articles:
Welcome to Grover Furr's Home Page

I find it ironic usually the people that so vehemently attack communism don't seem to realize the US is already a Democratic-Republican (two sides of the same wing essentially) one-party state that protects only the interests of the rich (oligarchy).


Life outside of the temple is hell - Jim Jones

Pretty much what every American thinks about China and Russia.
 

Vinny

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Russia's second biggest party is the communist party. Clearly a significant amount, maybe not 92% that the polls claims, you may be right that the poll is exaggerated.

I don't think you can dismiss such a signficant number of people as delusional. You can't ignore the experience of others in such a significant force. In the West a lot of us I think prematurely shoot down communism and say the Soviet Union was oppressive, because of propaganda. What if life was better under communism? Why is Belarus communist, if they thought communism was bad, don't you think they would've switched political systems by now, considering they also were part of the SU?

Some other polls suggest Russia isn't the only country to have a majority of its citizens missing communism:

Former Soviet Countries See More Harm From Breakup

Serbia Poll: Life Was Better Under Tito

Why nearly 60 percent of Russians 'deeply regret' the USSR's demise
You know what? I suspect that you are the type that would defend your own opinion no matter what, and regardless of any price, so I'm stopping here.
 
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Energizer

Energizer

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@raysputin Yeah, kinda sad. On the bright side though, some of them find out the truth about some of these myths sooner or later on their own. For me it was by accident.

That reminds me of this cool quote I found on Danny Roddy's blog:
"Our survival won’t depend on political or economic systems. It’s going to depend on the courage of the individual to speak the truth, and to speak it lovingly and not destructively... The integrity and the courage of the individual to speak his own truth and not to go along with the crowd, yet not making others seem ignorant. After a while, if enough human beings are doing it, then everybody will start going in the right direction." Bucky Fuller

You know what? I suspect that you are the type that would defend your own opinion no matter what, and regardless of any price, so I'm stopping here.

Fair enough, I respect that. I don't pretend to have all the answers, I am definitely a flawed person like everyone else, but I do think there have been some historical deceptions. I hope you realize I am trying to provide a different angle than gets presented in the news... of Russia and the former Soviet Union being the big bad boogeymen as Western media likes to paint them. People are gonna have to figure that out on their own though. However, I think you are right that it's a waste of energy to debate something like this. People get very heated about politics and it's better just to focus my energy on focusing inward rather than trying to "change the world" as Tolstoy said.
 
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michael94

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@raysputin Yeah, kinda sad. On the bright side though, some of them find out the truth about some of these myths sooner or later. For me it was pure accident.
Grover Furr is a holocaust believer. I wonder what Ray would say about Holocaust Revisionism if he were shown all the proven evidence at Nuremberg which ended up being false.
 

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Energizer

Energizer

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@michael94 Well, you can email Ray and find out what he thinks of it, personally I'm more interested in Soviet history than German WWII history and don't have the time to divide myself between the two. I take the finer details for granted when it comes to the Holocaust because I believe the overall picture as it's pretty well documented.
 

michael94

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Well, you can email Ray and find out what he thinks of it, personally I'm more interested in Soviet history than German WWII history and don't have the time to divide myself between the two. I take the finer details for granted when it comes to the Holocaust because I believe the overall picture as it's pretty well documented.
Thats the point.. It is well documented. Signed affadavits and confessions, eye witness testimony.. for things that are admitted never happened. Like camps outside of Poland being death camps, human lampshades and soap, death by steam etc. Not just vague references but detailed.

 

MatheusPN

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I'm really curious about the beliefs of people who affirm that things about Stalin were very distorted... (Perhaps I am misinformed about Stalin)
About the Stalin period: wasn't Stalin and to a lesser degree the elite (associated with the communist party), who dictated how the lives of the workers should be?
If so I would call it a totalitarian State, not a communist society.

Also, the story of the Bolsheviks destroying the anarchists, Voline, Mahkno, Mahknovia is true?

Obs.: I will reply back to the great replies in the thread I did. Time... Thx!
And, anarchism is about the decentralization of power, so clearly, ancaps aren't anarchists, they despise egalitarianism, loves a hierarchical society and dont care about someone having much more power/ coercive power and even a monopoly.

Brazil already has some anarchists/ communists, some Indigenous people, who won't pay the State, are going against the State, have a greater salary than Brasilianos, distribute their wealth to other tribes, BTW, they were recently very poor people since Brazil imposes poverty and stagnation or being a Brasilian against them!
Cooperation and Compassion!
 
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lampofred

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stalin.jpg


(Not my email, one of the commenters on Danny Roddy's channel posted that).

Grover Furr's personal website, includes information about all of his books and many of his articles:
Welcome to Grover Furr's Home Page

I find it ironic usually the people that so vehemently attack communism don't seem to realize the US is already a Democratic-Republican (two sides of the same wing essentially) one-party state that protects only the interests of the rich (oligarchy).



Man what. Are we told the truth about anything. While we're at it maybe the sky is actually red and the blue appearance is an illusion. Why not.
 

Gone Peating

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So you believe Stalin massacred Soviets (which is a lie, btw, it's propaganda), and despite this, him and the Soviet Union in general is somehow still loved? That's quite the mental gymnastics you've got there.

You are willingly blind
 

Gone Peating

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Man what. Are we told the truth about anything. While we're at it maybe the sky is actually red and the blue appearance is an illusion. Why not.

Just bc Ray Peat says something does not make it true. He’s so painfully ignorant of world history it hurts.

Obviously he is in a league of his own when it comes to nutrition though
 
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Energizer

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Just bc Ray Peat says something does not make it true. He’s so painfully ignorant of world history it hurts.

Obviously he is in a league of his own when it comes to nutrition though

I'm aware of that. I think it's a little foolish to dismiss everything he has said about politics and not investigate further, particularly when he talks about a conspiracy. While I don't worship Stalin or the Soviet Union, I try to remain open to the possibility that life can be different (Stalin himself blanched and was disgusted by the idea of people worshiping him, and the cult of personality was already talked about after his death, but there was a renewed effort by Khrushchev and his thugs to use that idea of there being a "cult of personality" to completely dismiss one of the leading members of communism and basically use every single rhetorical technique in the book to spread rumors about things which simply did not happen) very few people seem to be aware of the conspiracy involved to tarnish the image of communism and part of that was the things that were said about Stalin and things said about the SU that simply did not happen by oppositionists and by Western propagandists.

Again, I am aware that communism is an imperfect system but certainly more humane than the one which exists now in modern America, as I said earlier in the thread, I am more of an anarchist in theory. But for the sake of understanding history, and modern politics, people cannot understand where the world is now politically if they don't understand true history of communism and can't wrap their head around the idea that their own governments lied to them about it and continue to lie about it. Which is why they cannot imagine any other political system than the status quo.

Fortunately, there has been a renewed interest in primary source documents from the official archives of the SU recently and it seems the most likely actual true history is very slowly its way from Russian historians to the West. Keep in mind, these historians themselves are working against the grain because of the interntal politics of the SU. Americans are not very open to alternatives. They think their way is the best, even when the system is collapsing under them, they get very angry if you suggest alternatives are not only possible, but better.

I'm really curious about the beliefs of people who affirm that things about Stalin were very distorted... (Perhaps I am misinformed about Stalin)
About the Stalin period: wasn't Stalin and to a lesser degree the elite (associated with the communist party), who dictated how the lives of the workers should be?
If so I would call it a totalitarian State, not a communist society.

Also, the story of the Bolsheviks destroying the anarchists, Voline, Mahkno, Mahknovia is true?

Obs.: I will reply back to the great replies in the thread I did. Time... Thx!
And, anarchism is about the decentralization of power, so clearly, ancaps aren't anarchists, they despise egalitarianism, loves a hierarchical society and dont care about someone having much more power/ coercive power and even a monopoly.

Brazil already has some anarchists/ communists, some Indigenous people, who won't pay the State, are going against the State, have a greater salary than Brasilianos, distribute their wealth to other tribes, BTW, they were recently very poor people since Brazil imposes poverty and stagnation or being a Brasilian against them!
Cooperation and Compassion!

Stalin tried to resign 4 times from office, each time his attempt was rejected. He was a reluctant leader for many reasons. He was no dictator, he was elected General Secretary of the Party's Central Committee a few years before the death of Lenin, and was his protege. Decisions were made by majority rule. Stalin, like Lenin, wanted to emancipate the poor. The opinion that Stalin had unlimited power and trampled on the downtrodden is highly misinformed. Stalin had to to cede to Lenin and Krasin's opinions, and was just one vote in the Politburo and could be voted out by the Party Central Committee at any time if necessary. He was not an elite man by any means, he was born into a poor Georgian family and despised the elite. Part of the appeal of communism in the SU at the time was because for a very long time, Russia was ruled by the monarchs. The image of him as some lone, unhinged dictator is completely absurd (as is the image of him being some kind of christlike figure as well), but many in the West have been trained to believe this myth, same thing with even Russians in modern day, as there were opposition politicians like Kruschev and fascist collaborators like Trotsky that used every trick in the book to try to smear the name of communism and the easiest way to do that was by creating a narrative of Stalin as the big bad Soviet man as a "bloodthirsty dictator". Not at all accurate.

It's such a daunting task to even attempt to debunk all the propaganda and well beyond the scope of this forum that I recommend everyone who is interested in conspiracies and hidden history that can keep an open mind to check out the books I mentioned earlier, "Blood Lies" by Grover Furr. Another good one by him is "Khrushchev Lied".


Part of the reason I am interested in uncovering the truth about communist history is because I think it holds back even anarchist politics to not understand it as objectively as possible and to confuse propaganda with history. People instinctively associate anarchism with other left wing ideologies, even communism sometimes, and if the name of communism is held as a system even worse than oligarchical capitalism, the so-called "moderates" are more likely then to immediately recoil from anarchist politics and recoil from doing anything radical, because of guilt by association due to the anti-communist propaganda.

That is good to "hear" about some successes there for Brazilians that rejected the status quo! Bravo! These are the kinds of stories we need to hear and see.

"Also, the story of the Bolsheviks destroying the anarchists, Voline, Mahkno, Mahknovia is true?"

I don't know, good question. I will check their stories out. I am generally suspicious of Soviet defectors, but they may have some valid critiques, no political system is perfect after all, there were after all some problems with the communist party itself, but by no means the same kinds of categorical slander that gets bandied about. On the other hand, I personally think anarchism makes more sense than communism. However, I also think it's harmful all anti-communist propaganda that dominates in every Western university, on almost every corner of the internet, in many historians point of view just the same, as that can harm leftist political movements in general, the whole "guilt by association" thing, so I think we should be vigilant to carefully check all the sources, especially primary documents, and from those who actually lived during the Soviet Union and have first hand experience, and understand the meaning of their words in context (and within their own political leanings). A lot of leftist movements have been completely fractured by the propaganda spread about the Soviet Union, about communism and its historic leaders, and about Stalin especially. I think these sorts of lies are so detrimental, that they are actually holding back any kind of significant radical dissent in society and causing a decay in political morale.

Here's an interview from Stalin's grandson interviewing Furr: https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/georgiantimesinterv0910_en.pdf

I would also re-iterate Ray is able to read Russian and has traveled there many times, even before the fall of the Soviet Union, and is widely read in Soviet history (See his book, "Mind and Tissue" if you want a sample of his writing about the Soviet Union), so I think it would be foolish to completely ignore his perspective on the topic as some of the commenters in this thread have suggested. Neither does it mean he is automatically right about everything, but his perspective on the topic has something to offer, imo.

Here's another article by Furr on Stalin: Stalin and the Struggle for Democratic Reform
 
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Max23

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You know what? I suspect that you are the type that would defend your own opinion no matter what, and regardless of any price, so I'm stopping here.

I´ve got the same opinion. Some people just want to tell and not listen.
 

revenant

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What does it even matter if Stalin was a saint? The system was still a catastrophe. As has every other attempt at communism in the world. The death tolls are staggering.
 
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Energizer

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Doesn't matter at this point, this thread is pointless. It was meant to generate some discussion but it seems I just ended up alienating people. I wasn't setting out to offend anyone but invariably that's what happened. Not gonna check it again
 
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