Ray Peat Interview #85: Protein Restriction | Lidocaine for Hair Loss? | Brain Size, Intelligence & Symptom Recognition with Georgi and Danny

[GreekDemiGod]

@Ritchie Do you think a glass of milk would cover Calcium requirements? How is your PTH and bone/ dental health?
Do you include plant sources of calcium?

 

[Ritchie]

@Ritchie Do you think a glass of milk would cover Calcium requirements? How is your PTH and bone/ dental health?
Do you include plant sources of calcium?

Peat has always said that it is important to balance out phosphorus with calcium, and obviously if you are eating less protein particularly from animal products you are getting far less phosphorus, requiring less calcium for the balance.. As far as specific calcium requirements i'm not to sure, that may be an experimental thing. My teeth are great and my bone health seems fantastic. To answer your question, no I don't supplement calcium from plant sources, do you mean like marine calcium carbonate from seaweed or something like that?.. There is some in kale and other veges...
How much calcium do you think is required daily?
I think there are also potential issues with milk that can effect metabolism negatively, @Travis used to discuss them alot.. Partly to do with the casomorphins and partly to do with the specific type of proteins, peptides and aminos if I remember correctly. I certainly notice feeling alot warmer, calmer and more energised when limiting milk.

 

[tallglass13]

I just relistened to the podcast.. Danny Roddy had asked Ray" how did you come to the 50 g of protein" , Ray then responded, " because it's hard to get less, because of the amounts in the fruits and milk". Which basically means Ray would go lower if he could, but you can't because there's protein and fruit juice and milk and all the other foods that there's no way you can go lower. That's pretty fascinating, meaning that Ray really wants to go low on his protein.

 

[Ritchie]

He

I just relistened to the podcast.. Danny Roddy had asked Ray" how did you come to the 50 g of protein" , Ray then responded, " because it's hard to get less, because of the amounts in the fruits and milk". Which basically means Ray would go lower if he could, but you can't because there's protein and fruit juice and milk and all the other foods that there's no way you can go lower. That's pretty fascinating, meaning that Ray really wants to go low on his protein.

Yeah he says “ even with the juices, when you reach a gallon of orange juice your protein is going up considerably”.. a gallon of orange juice is approximately 27 grams of protein. Danny then suggests that if he is keeping his protein that low he’d have to cut back on milk, cheese, eggs and Peat confirms that he has.

 

[Healthseeker]

I know an old lady that drank a can of coke every day for years and years and did so well, only towards the very end would I see a half a can unfinished in the fridge. She started drinking it back when it still had cocaine in it when it first came out. I guess it was good for her cause the phosphorus and no protein

 

[Dean]

I'm curious why Peat doesn't mention cauliflower with the other well cooked cruciferous vegetables. Could be that it's just he doesn't like it (it is even blander than those he mentioned) or is there something specific about it nutritionally that he doesn't want.

Also wondering how he takes his veggies. With butter? Though that likely mess up his carb ratio. Doubt he is using herbs and spices as he always regarded them as toxic. Boiling or steaming the eff out of them and then maybe lemon juice and salt?

 

[conrad0602]

I'm curious why Peat doesn't mention cauliflower with the other well cooked cruciferous vegetables. Could be that it's just he doesn't like it (it is even blander than those he mentioned) or is there something specific about it nutritionally that he doesn't want.

Also wondering how he takes his veggies. With butter? Though that likely mess up his carb ratio. Doubt he is using herbs and spices as he always regarded them as toxic. Boiling or steaming the eff out of them and then maybe lemon juice and salt?

There won't be any specific nutritional reason to not eat cauliflower whilst consuming the other cruciferous veg. He will just be eating whatever vegetables he enjoys and preparing them in whatever way works best for him from a taste/digestion point of view. It's entirely likely uses herbs/spices.

 

[RPDiciple]

I know, that’s part of the point I’m making, Peat’s interpretation of nutrition led me to where he’s at quite a while ago and I always thought that’s where he would eventually head. I train hard and I’m younger than Peat so my protein requirements will be higher than his, so for me now it’s more about finding that sweet spot with protein without overdoing it.

Very interesting. How much protein are you getting a day and from what sources? Do you do weight training or build muscle? Because how peat eat now if its mostly vegan i have seen those guys lile mcdougall etc and they ate like fruit and they are so thin and fragile its crazy. So thats what im really concerned about because no vegan low protein ppl looks good and they dont train either and they get gray hair right away.
Also all the research on protein is showing that older people requires more because their mps is weaker so they require more to stimulate holding on to the muscle. Same goes for bodybuilding literature showing 1.6g /kg looks to be around optimal and the highest one needs to go. Your thoughts on all this?

 

[Ritchie]

Very interesting. How much protein are you getting a day and from what sources?

I'm probably getting around the 100g mark on average. Sources are fruits and vegetables, gelatin, eggs, some raw nuts like macadamias, oats, oysters, lentils. It's suprisingly easy to get alot of protein, and i've found it can be way higher than you realise when you monitor it through chronometer. I'm experimenting a little to find that sweet spot and I suspect I could go lower.

Do you do weight training or build muscle?

I do body weight training supplemented with weights, so basically cali strength training. I also play sport, surf/swim etc. Muscly and toned.

Because how peat eat now if its mostly vegan i have seen those guys lile mcdougall etc and they ate like fruit and they are so thin and fragile its crazy. So thats what im really concerned about because no vegan low protein ppl looks good and they dont train either and they get gray hair right away.

If you are eating high carb (ie high sugar from juice, fruit, honey, maple, cane sugar etc) plus clean starches like potatoes and rice, along with some good fats like coconut, olive oil, macadamias and other raw nuts, avocado, chocolate and cocoa butter and some protein sources like I mentioned above you definitely won't have this problem. Adequate Sugar and starch certainly seem to lower your body's requirements for protein. I think McDougall is very anti fat, hence the reason he is so thin. IMO you need fat. Unless you feel you are overweight and carrying excess, then as part of a toning/leaning down cycle you can cut fats for X amount of time and then re-introduce. I don’t think McDougall is a fan of sugar either, which would play into this too. Also, alot of vegans eat low sugar, and even low carb in general which is just a recipe for disaster. High carb (from starch and sugar) with a decent fat intake vegans all look very healthy in my experience. Of course there are factors to that other than diet.

Also all the research on protein is showing that older people requires more because their mps is weaker so they require more to stimulate holding on to the muscle. Same goes for bodybuilding literature showing 1.6g /kg looks to be around optimal and the highest one needs to go. Your thoughts on all this?

I think again that's because alot of these people are on keto type diets. The "sugar/carb is unhealthy" paradigm is very strong in these research groups. So when you are eating adequate sugars and starches along with good fats, the protein requirements go down. And in conjunction metabolism goes up so it all works synergistically. Everything hums along nicely. People who eat 1.6 g/kg protein or more are converting a large portion of that into glucose via gluconeogenesis anyway, their bodies aren't using all that protein as protein. That process hinders metabolism greatly and contributes to other stressful factors. Hence the motivation to find the sweet spot your body needs and not go to far over that.

 

[RPDiciple]

I'm probably getting around the 100g mark on average. Sources are fruits and vegetables, gelatin, eggs, some raw nuts like macadamias, oats, oysters, lentils. It's suprisingly easy to get alot of protein, and i've found it can be way higher than you realise when you monitor it through chronometer. I'm experimenting a little to find that sweet spot and I suspect I could go lower.


I do body weight training supplemented with weights, so basically cali strength training. I also play sport, surf/swim etc. Muscly and toned.


If you are eating high carb (ie high sugar from juice, fruit, honey, maple, cane sugar etc) plus clean starches like potatoes and rice, along with some good fats like coconut, olive oil, macadamias and other raw nuts, avocado, chocolate and cocoa butter and some protein sources like I mentioned above you definitely won't have this problem. Adequate Sugar and starch certainly seem to lower your body's requirements for protein. I think McDougall is very anti fat, hence the reason he is so thin. IMO you need fat. Unless you feel you are overweight and carrying excess, then as part of a toning/leaning down cycle you can cut fats for X amount of time and then re-introduce. I don’t think McDougall is a fan of sugar either, which would play into this too. Also, alot of vegans eat low sugar, and even low carb in general which is just a recipe for disaster. High carb (from starch and sugar) with a decent fat intake vegans all look very healthy in my experience. Of course there are factors to that other than diet.

I think again that's because alot of these people are on keto type diets. The "sugar/carb is unhealthy" paradigm is very strong in these research groups. So when you are eating adequate sugars and starches along with good fats, the protein requirements go down. And in conjunction metabolism goes up so it all works synergistically. Everything hums along nicely. People who eat 1.6 g/kg protein or more are converting a large portion of that into glucose via gluconeogenesis anyway, their bodies aren't using all that protein as protein. That process hinders metabolism greatly and contributes to other stressful factors. Hence the motivation to find the sweet spot your body needs and not go to far over that.

Thank you.

I get what you are saying but mcgdougall and other high carb vegans or fruitarians are thin but they age veeery poor. Their skin, muscles hair is always suuper gray early etc. So they are clearly missing something, if its protein or something else. Because i have not seen many healthy ones that lasts.
What is your thoughts? I agree protein requirements are prob lower, but i think getting them from quality sources are important. Getting the 50g protein from milk, cheese, eggs, liver, shellfish etc makes a big difference vs veggies and other non animal foods.

 

[Advocate2021]

I got a little behind the last couple of years on new developments due to the legal battle in the face of this Covid era madness and found this thread and podcast fascinating. i am copying below a post i just did in another thread in response to a question regarding what i attributed my hair regrowth this month being darker with almost no gray and think it applies to this thread as well.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

What do you think that might have helped?

I did a month of increased thyroid to rebalance an imbalance created the prior 6 months, I added back weekly liver ( i had been doing less frequently for a bit to lower iron) and I reset my circadian rhythm over the last few months after a 6 month stint of its major disruption prior due to stress. ive been pretty consistent with weekly oysters notwithstanding these other fluctuations. I ate a good amount of shrimp this last month as well. so my guess is the increased copper, better rest and increased thyroid temporarily to jump start myself again, ive lowered it again now. Dr. Peat has said that at times creating a hyperthyroid state for a time can repair damage such as radiation etc. i kind of feel thats what i was doing before returning to a more sustainable thyroid regimen.

it is always a balancing act. At one point when i was concerned about iron and per Dr. Peat's advice, I abstained from liver and oysters for a couple of months. Its all about balance and this is what Dr. Peat has always taught us and tuning in and listening to our bodies and being intuitive. I was just reading a thread regarding the lower protein topic which i missed in all the distraction of the my legal endeavors these last couple years- i had not been keeping up as much with new developments here. And some people expressed quite a bit of dissonance; but i do not see it that way.

Dr. Peat has always taught that the "intrinsic knowledge within is far more powerful than any external data". His expression of seemingly dissonant ideas compared to prior ideas are not dissonant at all. the organism is constantly evolving and subjected to different environmental factors at different times. Adaptability is key. I learned this philosophy early in life and saved my life with it but what worked at 29 and 39 and even 40's has evolved at 52 I am finding. Due to the distraction of the insanity these last few years, i went on a bit of health autopilot from the knowledge i had up until that point and have recently again focused more within since i realize i cannot save the world if i myself am not functioning optimally and all of the sudden was realizing i had not adapted to different circumstances at present.

And wow the intuition is just flooding in with some help here thank you. After a 25 -year rapport with Dr. Peat, this power of intuitive knowledge is by far his most seminal teaching above and beyond any "Ray Peat diet/regimen". While there are some basic tenants as guidelines and all humans (unless a defect causes absence) are born with thyroids and livers etc,, each organism has been subjected to unique transgenerational influences and life abuses and must tailor central tenets to its needs. I for one came into this world with some very challenging transgenerational influences , especially for being female, and cannot compare myself to others who came here with a fuller deck of cards healthwise. Through this wisdom, i managed to re-program them for the most part- had a baby when i was told i would never get pregnant, reprogrammed my hormones to a youthful state which continues when i was told i would have to be hormone replacement indefinitely, etc. Yet like Dr. Peat, i am extremely sensitive and have to be pristine with my health whereas there are others out there without even a fraction of my knowledge who function quite robustly and do not have to be as cautious- it seems constitutional.

So in conclusion, the individual organism and whatever state it is in is what governs the "regimen" that works ultimately and that is constantly evolving and changing. the key is never to go on autopilot as i have been guilty of doing on occasions and always staying in tune with our organism. Dr. Peat has said that the thyroid changes daily: hence putting oneself on a steady dose makes no sense- it might be different depending upon the day, the stressors etc. Same with nutrition- sometimes if might be appropriate to do weekly liver and at other times monthly or less depending upon needs and iron buildup, etc.