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Ray Peat Interview #85: Protein Restriction | Lidocaine for Hair Loss? | Brain Size, Intelligence & Symptom Recognition with Georgi and Danny

tastyfood

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If the goal is methionine/cysteine/tryptophan restriction, gelatin is indeed negligible since it has no cysteine and tryptophan and only small amounts of methionine. And from what I hear from Peat's interviews, this seems to be the main reason for his low protein experiment. So @GreekDemiGod has a point when he asks whether gelatin does "count". I wonder if a diet high in protein but low in methionine/cysteine/tryptophan would still somewhat supress thyroid function. And I'm aware that such a diet does not really occur in reality and is rather a theoretical discussion.

Not sure I understand your comment. Why would a protein source be negligible as far as protein goes if it has zero or small amounts of some of the amino acids. Being really simplistic, the Collagen can labels show protein amounts.

I do understand that if one is getting a lot of protein from collagen, that the rest of the protein can be upped a bit even in the context of protein restriction.
 

EvanHinkle

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I was as surprised as anyone to hear some of what Peat said in the interview, but there’s never been a “Ray Peat diet” but rather a “bio-energetic methodology.”

The method is seemingly simple: eat, drink, or engage in activity, test the temperature and pulse, determine if the food, drink, or activity supported your metabolism or hindered it.

I can’t speak for the man Ray Peat, but so long as these measurements remain in his tool kit, (among others) then I don’t suppose anything has really “changed” right?
 

Herbie

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What has happened is that people often ask Ray what he recommends for others but this time Danny asked him what he is personally eating.

When Josh Rubin interviewed Peat 10 years ago, he asked Peat what he ate that day and Peat said steak and Coke and people now still can't believe he would drink Coke, it's not that often people actually ask him what he is eating. Peat didn't make up this philosophy or guidelines overnight decades ago, it's an evolving thing which he contradicts because he continues to learn which is good. The ones who think they know it all and become rigid are dangerous.
 

GreekDemiGod

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The problem I see with the starch fear on this forum is that people will see some Haidut post about a study on how endotoxin is dangerous/ GELDING effect/ whatever, and will interpret it that not eating starch will lead to reduced/ no endotoxin, which is far from the truth.
The no starch strategy, the carrot salad are bandaids after all.
 

-Luke-

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Not sure I understand your comment. Why would a protein source be negligible as far as protein goes if it has zero or small amounts of some of the amino acids. Being really simplistic, the Collagen can labels show protein amounts.

I do understand that if one is getting a lot of protein from collagen, that the rest of the protein can be upped a bit even in the context of protein restriction.
It's negligible if the goal is to restrict methionine, cysteine and tryptophan. And that seems to be an important part of Peats experiment with lower amounts of protein. If the goal is just "low protein" than it matters just like any other protein source of course.
 

Ritchie

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It’s always been quite obvious to me that this is where Peat’s nutritional paradigm and philosophy, along with his specific biological understanding of nutrition, would eventually lead him.. which is to a mostly plant based diet. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s practically vegetarian now (apart from the chicken livers and bacon every few months haha)

A lot of the dietary elements he has always said are toxic and should be lowered, and/or avoided, reside in protein - He’s always said that heme iron is toxic, always said high levels of phosphorus are not good (which most protein sources, especially animal products are very high in) and need to be balanced with calcium.. always warned against aminos like methionine, tryptophan and cysteine, which are all highest in animal proteins.. so much so that to balance protein he has recommended eating spoons of isolated gelatin which obviously wouldn’t be necessary if those aminos were lower. Same goes for drinking copious amounts of milk for the calcium in order to balance out the phosphorus that comes from all the protein sources (which is a double edged sword because milk itself is high in very readily absorbable phosphorus).. he’s felt he has to drink so much milk that he needed to go skinny milk in order to avoid all the fat… it’s comical when you think about it. I’m quite sure this has changed now that he has lowered his protein consumption, my guess is he’s drinking a fraction of the milk that he used to and it’s back to full cream.

Anyway it seems obvious he is traveling down that path by reducing his protein intake and being more liberal with his consumption of vegetables and starches.. a far more elegant way of eating than trying to play a tedious balancing act (which is probably doomed to fail) of drinking gallons of milk to balance out the phosphorus and eating spoon fulls of powdered gelatin to balance all the other animal proteins, while drinking copious amounts of orange juice and sugar to try to reach the right amount of calories.. all the while eating raw carrot salads to make up for the lack of fibre in the diet that comes from avoiding fibre in the diet :tearsofjoy:
 
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Sefton10

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It’s always been quite obvious to me that this is where Peat’s nutritional paradigm and philosophy, along with his specific biological understanding of nutrition, would eventually lead him.
To be fair you have been on this path for a long while now, Ritchie. I was actually reading back through your original vegan/Peat thread yesterday.
 

cats

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Just in case anyone was more curious about this part of the interview.

Me: You mentioned you are eating around 500-600 grams of carbohydrates per day, some of which is well cooked vegetables. Do you mean starchy vegetables like potatoes or are you eating lots of the green vegetables like broccoli, kale, etc... I'm super curious where you're getting all that carbohydrate from. Thank you!

Ray: No potatoes; asparagus, turnips, carrots, cauliflower, squash.

I think hes including fiber in his 500 - 600 grams of carbohydrates per day.
Read the question again. It could be interpreted as asking, "what starchy vegetables are you eating," rather than "what are your main sources of carbohydrate."
 

NanMitch

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Speed up the playback speed. Technology is great in that regard. Ray Peat is a wealth of information that Google can never match. The fact that he is experimenting with dietary choices should surprise no one. He referenced broad Barnes (pre 1970) with the info that Barnes noted increased protein equated to increased need for thyroid. The needs of the organism change from baby to child to adolescent to young adult. So that they seeming change from mature adult to senior adult is not surprising. I have heard Peat in numerous interviews over the years reference older people doing great on diet of basically jello and toast. Rays slow manner of speech could be he keeps his serotonin really low. And if it is anything else, the fact that he still keeps a rigorous FREE interview schedule is impressive. He is a treasure, walking history and irreplaceable knowledge. I pray for his continued good health and longevity. I see no one who could fill his shoes.
Amen!!!!
 

ThunderSpank

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Read the question again. It could be interpreted as asking, "what starchy vegetables are you eating," rather than "what are your main sources of carbohydrate."
Huh? I wanted to know specifically about his eating vegetables comment. I already know he's getting a lot of carbohydrates from orange and grape juice. I received the answer to the question I asked.
 

cats

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Huh? I wanted to know specifically about his eating vegetables comment. I already know he's getting a lot of carbohydrates from orange and grape juice. I received the answer to the question I asked.
The other posts in this thread are interpreting his answer as meaning that he gets a significant portion of the 500-600g of carbohydrate from starchy vegetables.
 

ThunderSpank

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The other posts in this thread are interpreting his answer as meaning that he gets a significant portion of the 500-600g of carbohydrate from starchy vegetables.
He's said his protein is around 60 grams per day, so I dont think it would be possible to get that much carbohydrate from mostly starchy vegetables while including some milk all the while keeping his protein intake that low. He'd have to get most of it from juice. Maybe he doesn't even drink milk anymore, I dont know. He could be completely off in his calculations regarding carbs and protein as well. Oh well.
 

Ritchie

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To be fair you have been on this path for a long while now, Ritchie. I was actually reading back through your original vegan/Peat thread yesterday.
I know, that’s part of the point I’m making, Peat’s interpretation of nutrition led me to where he’s at quite a while ago and I always thought that’s where he would eventually head. I train hard and I’m younger than Peat so my protein requirements will be higher than his, so for me now it’s more about finding that sweet spot with protein without overdoing it.
 

Inaut

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I know, that’s part of the point I’m making, Peat’s interpretation of nutrition led me to where he’s at quite a while ago and I always thought that’s where he would eventually head. I train hard and I’m younger than Peat so my protein requirements will be higher than his, so for me now it’s more about finding that sweet spot with protein without overdoing it.
Well said Ritchie
 

tastyfood

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It's negligible if the goal is to restrict methionine, cysteine and tryptophan. And that seems to be an important part of Peats experiment with lower amounts of protein. If the goal is just "low protein" than it matters just like any other protein source of course.

Ok I get it now. Thanks for clarifying.
 

Herbie

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The other posts in this thread are interpreting his answer as meaning that he gets a significant portion of the 500-600g of carbohydrate from starchy vegetables.
I get the impression that he is not counting his carbs and doesn't really know and just giving ball park figures to Danny because he is put on the spot about it. I guess he drinks Mexican coke too.
 

GenericName86

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I know, that’s part of the point I’m making, Peat’s interpretation of nutrition led me to where he’s at quite a while ago and I always thought that’s where he would eventually head. I train hard and I’m younger than Peat so my protein requirements will be higher than his, so for me now it’s more about finding that sweet spot with protein without overdoing it.
What's your current diet look like if you don't mind me asking?
 

Ritchie

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What's your current diet look like if you don't mind me asking?
It’s probably 90% plant based - high fruit/juice/honey/sugar, high starch from mainly tubers like potatoes and sweet potatoes but also rice and oats, and other vegetables, some fat from coconut, olive oil, avocados, macadamias, chocolate.. obviously coffee is a staple.. atm as far as animal products, I have eggs, oysters, a very small amount of milk which I’m in two minds about and some gelatinous cuts of meat here and there. Feeling amazing, may drop the dairy but we’ll see. I’m keeping a glass or so of milk just for the calcium atm but not sure that I really need it, and I think there’s a strong possibility it could be detrimental. I feel way better with less milk than when I was drinking a lot of it.

I smash the gym and I love training/moving my body. I also do yoga and mobility stuff, swimming, walking. So I’m active and I’m very in tune with my body and what it needs, if I feel like I’m lacking something or overdoing something/ or if something is out of whack I know pretty quickly.
 
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