8,000+ Calories Per Day And No Weight Gain

[yashi]

@Iraber can you post a detailed day of eating (average day) here (or even better an example day on cronometer). This is a bit vague for me to understand.
How much protein do you get? Are you losing body fat and gaining muscle? Do you have a focused clear head eating like this? Only easy to digest foods? What foods are you trying to avoid? etc.

 

[Jennifer]

Then something interesting: can someone with 37,3º to 37,5 C and 85 bpm, with great ankle test results, no/ barely gas, great bowel movements and every time he eats lots of foods, consume more than 7000 kcal is almost irrelevant if he is sedentary or active in his weight change; is possible he don't possess optimal thyroid function?

I for one switched from >7500 kcal to maintain weight, to 2500-3500 kcal gaining weight and all this happened within weeks, adding dairy; remained with the same temperature and pulse. This is a question I have for a long time...
I presume dairy is fattening, at least was the only variation. MCT, coconut, meat, fractioned palm oil, didnt changed my weight... And yes, when I was vegan I was eating a full mountainous plate of soffritto chard for vitamin k and calcium

Possibly, if your temps were being falsely elevated by adrenaline -- a clear indicator of this is cold extremities (hands, feet, nose and/or ears). Running on catabolic adrenaline had me staying lean while consuming a large amount of calories for my size -- 3,500+ calories daily at 5'1" and 99 lbs.

Also, I suspect absorption of food plays a part, too. I was needing 3,500+ while eating a fruitarian diet of mainly whole fruit, and I needed even more calories when I was following 80-10-10 -- with the latter, I was eating at least 2 lbs of raw leafy greens daily with my fruit to get in minerals.

Going by what you wrote, I'm thinking your version of 100% plant-based included a lot of whole foods/roughage and if so, not being able to extract as much nutrition from your food then as you're able to now could play a role in the difference in calorie requirements? Same with dairy -- maybe you're able to digest it more fully than meat and/or it increased your bone density, especially if you were vegan for a while? Given your height, 2,500 - 3,500 calories daily seems like a healthy amount for a male. Men during the time the Minnesota Starvation Experiment was performed had an average height of 5'10" if I recall correctly, and consumed an average of 3,200 calories a day.

After following 80-10-10 in my 20s in an attempt to gain weight I had lost due to illness (I went from a low of 69 lbs to 82 lbs) and fracturing half my spine due to osteoporosis, my doctor put me on a dairy-based, ancestral diet but my weight wouldn't budge past 95 lbs, and the majority of what I gained was muscle and bone (my bone density improved by 50%) so in my case, dairy wasn't fattening but a much needed builder. Honestly, having to eat so much was expensive and painful (I also refed for a year and a half on 6,000+ calories daily), and all the gut inflammation from the mountain of food I was having to eat was actually lowering my thyroid function, keeping me hypo.

 

[MatheusPN]

Possibly, if your temps were being falsely elevated by adrenaline -- a clear indicator of this is cold extremities (hands, feet, nose and/or ears). Running on catabolic adrenaline had me staying lean while consuming a large amount of calories for my size -- 3,500+ calories daily at 5'1" and 99 lbs.

Also, I suspect absorption of food plays a part, too. I was needing 3,500+ while eating a fruitarian diet of mainly whole fruit, and I needed even more calories when I was following 80-10-10 -- with the latter, I was eating at least 2 lbs of raw leafy greens daily with my fruit to get in minerals.

Going by what you wrote, I'm thinking your version of 100% plant-based included a lot of whole foods/roughage and if so, not being able to extract as much nutrition from your food then as you're able to now could play a role in the difference in calorie requirements? Same with dairy -- maybe you're able to digest it more fully than meat and/or it increased your bone density, especially if you were vegan for a while? Given your height, 2,500 - 3,500 calories daily seems like a healthy amount for a male. Men during the time the Minnesota Starvation Experiment was performed had an average height of 5'10" if I recall correctly, and consumed an average of 3,200 calories a day.

After following 80-10-10 in my 20s in an attempt to gain weight I had lost due to illness (I went from a low of 69 lbs to 82 lbs) and fracturing half my spine due to osteoporosis, my doctor put me on a dairy-based, ancestral diet but my weight wouldn't budge past 95 lbs, and the majority of what I gained was muscle and bone (my bone density improved by 50%) so in my case, dairy wasn't fattening but a much needed builder. Honestly, having to eat so much was expensive and painful (I also refed for a year and a half on 6,000+ calories daily), and all the gut inflammation from the mountain of food I was having to eat was actually lowering my thyroid function, keeping me hypo.

Thanks for your help Jennifer

Well if exists this more symptons, probalities then I think I was in good and still in good health, cyproheptadine opposes adrenalin and I never measured lower than 37,3 with it, Androsterone a thyromimetic makes me really hot, I am the person I know with the hottest extremities by complimenting people.
My diet was typically: 20 or more potatoes with lots of fat sometimes, the full plate of chard, 14 or more bananas/ Orange Juice/ Mangoes, 10 cherimoyas, and other fruits, energetics, drinks, etc.
To people saying this isn't possible, maybe I can interview the 3 restaurants where I was expulsed.

Wow yeah, I did read this history from you, +50% this is a lot! I hope you're doing fine by now... Unfortunately, I will never know with hard data what happened, I remember I grew hugely, quickly, then after some months come the fat and I lost my sharp 6 pack abs...

 

[Iraber]

I don’t know exactly what I eat in a day. I can give estimates. My main protein source is raw or fried fish (octopus, calamari). I eat 1-3,000 calories per day from prepackaged things that are high sugar and high saturated fat (twix, kit kats, little debbies, heroes from the pizzeria). I have 1-2 Liters of orange juice most days. I have 1-2 liters of raw jersey milk with a cup of sugar in each. I have dinner that my parents cook. I have oysters most days. And a few times a week I’ll eat a glass of raw eggs when i crave them.

I have a bigger build than the average person. My ideal weight is around 220 and I am 6 feet tall and I still have some inches to grow. I am sedentary due to this joke of a “quarantine”. I have about 30 extra pounds of fat on right now which has been stable for a few months so I don’t stress about it. I believe its healthier to be overweight anyway. I don’t stress about life or take it too serious.

 

[Iraber]

I will do a cronometer for what I eat tomorrow and post it

 

[Jennifer]

Thanks for your help Jennifer

Well if exists this more symptons, probalities then I think I was in good and still in good health, cyproheptadine opposes adrenalin and I never measured lower than 37,3 with it, Androsterone a thyromimetic makes me really hot, I am the person I know with the hottest extremities by complimenting people.
My diet was typically: 20 or more potatoes with lots of fat sometimes, the full plate of chard, 14 or more bananas/ Orange Juice/ Mangoes, 10 cherimoyas, and other fruits, energetics, drinks, etc.
To people saying this isn't possible, maybe I can interview the 3 restaurants where I was expulsed.

Wow yeah, I did read this history from you, +50% this is a lot! I hope you're doing fine by now... Unfortunately, I will never know with hard data what happened, I remember I grew hugely, quickly, then after some months come the fat and I lost my sharp 6 pack abs...

You're welcome! And thank you! I'm doing great now. :)

Hmm...yeah, so 7,000 calories that includes lots of plant fiber could have played a role and/or all the prometabolic potatoes and fruit you ate. All I know for sure is, if I'm ever in need of a partner for an eating contest, I'm calling you! I can put away a large watermelon in one sitting without needing a pee break, and have eaten up to 5 in a day before. I can't think of a more qualified teammate than a fellow ex high-carb vegan. We spent years training for it.

 

[Iraber]

 

[orewashin]

Really hard to believe. My only conclusion is that someone who makes claims like this is:

1) GROSSLY overestimating their calorie intake (i.e. failing in reading nutritional labels or overcalculating what they are eating in some spectacular way)
2) Works 10 hours a day on a construction site where he burns 4000-5000 calories a day and conveniently fails to mention that
3) Hasn't done this long enough to see how much weight he's really going to gain in the long run

I'm 5'10", 180 lbs, mostly sedentary (IT job working from home due to Corona lockdown). My activities are weight lifting every other day, and a 7.5 km daily walk that burns approx. 400 calories. Given that, my TDEE is somewhere between 2500-2700 calories (the total amount of energy I spend during the day).

In the past 2 years I have been eating on average around 2600-2700 calories and that made me slowly gain weight to the point where I reached 190 lbs starting May. The past 7 weeks I lost nearly 10 lbs by eating on average ~2100 kcal per day and doing the activities mentioned above - a really safe fat loss rate of a little over a pound per week.

Granted, my latest TSH came in at 3.9 so if I was in optimal thyroid function and had a sub-1.0 TSH my daily TDEE would probably be maybe 100 calories higher, so I could afford to eat 2200-2300 kcal and lose weight at the same rate.

But figures in the range of 7000-8000 kcal daily without gaining weight would only be possible if you are a 6'10" 18 year old with gigantism who runs for at least 5 hours a day. Surely I can't be the only one who realizes this.

Protein also counts as a calorie, except it burns more calories than it provides. Maybe he has one of those very high protein diets that RP mentioned, with 320g of protein daily.

 

[Tarmander]

Maybe OP is actually Cirion making his comeback?

lol I was going to say "Cirion??"

 

[Blue09]

Take cyproheptadine and you'll gain weight fast.

 

[Ableton]

"[on high metabolic rate - very high temps and pulse - which is a result of low thyroid] Thyroid is the basic regulator of blood glucose, and it causes it to be fully oxidized for energy, so that it produces ATP efficiently, on relatively few calories.
If blood glucose falls, because it's being used very quickly, the body responds with stress hormones, including glucagon, adrenalin, and cortisol. They cause fat and protein to be burned for energy, while in hypothyroidism, glucose can still be used inefficiently for glycolysis, producing lactic acid, displacing bicarbonate and carbon dioxide. This causes mineral imbalances" Ray Peat

Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki

This is why my morning temperature is still garbage while daytime is fine.
I am still hypo, and when I do not constantly refill sugar I get cold...

What happens with the glucose that is not oxidized?


What I find interesting about this in relation to hairloss is that Peat talks about mineral imbalances, much like gbol did.

Hairloss = hypothyroidism = running on adrenals = mineral imbalances (iron, copper deficiency) (comes with body hair, leanness)

or

Hairloss = hypothyroidism = running on nothing really (underactive nervous system AND thyroid) = mineral imbalances (zinc deficiency) (comes with obesity, low energy)


Health is basically the optimal relation of catabolic/thyroid energy and nervous system (should not be too low either). This leads to great mineral balances and slows aging.

Possibly, if your temps were being falsely elevated by adrenaline -- a clear indicator of this is cold extremities (hands, feet, nose and/or ears). Running on catabolic adrenaline had me staying lean while consuming a large amount of calories for my size -- 3,500+ calories daily at 5'1" and 99 lbs.

Also, I suspect absorption of food plays a part, too. I was needing 3,500+ while eating a fruitarian diet of mainly whole fruit, and I needed even more calories when I was following 80-10-10 -- with the latter, I was eating at least 2 lbs of raw leafy greens daily with my fruit to get in minerals.

Going by what you wrote, I'm thinking your version of 100% plant-based included a lot of whole foods/roughage and if so, not being able to extract as much nutrition from your food then as you're able to now could play a role in the difference in calorie requirements? Same with dairy -- maybe you're able to digest it more fully than meat and/or it increased your bone density, especially if you were vegan for a while? Given your height, 2,500 - 3,500 calories daily seems like a healthy amount for a male. Men during the time the Minnesota Starvation Experiment was performed had an average height of 5'10" if I recall correctly, and consumed an average of 3,200 calories a day.

After following 80-10-10 in my 20s in an attempt to gain weight I had lost due to illness (I went from a low of 69 lbs to 82 lbs) and fracturing half my spine due to osteoporosis, my doctor put me on a dairy-based, ancestral diet but my weight wouldn't budge past 95 lbs, and the majority of what I gained was muscle and bone (my bone density improved by 50%) so in my case, dairy wasn't fattening but a much needed builder. Honestly, having to eat so much was expensive and painful (I also refed for a year and a half on 6,000+ calories daily), and all the gut inflammation from the mountain of food I was having to eat was actually lowering my thyroid function, keeping me hypo.

I can second your comment on runnng on catabolic adrenaline.

I myself have run an experiment lately.


When I started peating in classic fashion, I was maintaining weight on 4k cal despite doing less cardio. My digestion wasn't great though.

I started going high fat as an experiment. Results: Weight gain on as little as 2,5k cal. Drastically slowed oxidation rate. Much better digestion (literally no need to wipe anymore).
But: Feeling worse/sluggish and being a lot colder.


I would love to be able to get a digestion this good on high carb/peating.
And get my waking temps up...

I literally do not feel good in absence of stress hormones, especially in the morning

 

[Jennifer]

Are you currently taking, or have you ever taken, a thyroid supplement, @Ableton? The only way I've been able to reduce my need for a constant supply of sugar (and calories in general) to keep my temps up and to feel good without stress hormones is with NDT (WP Thyroid). Before it, I had hypoglycemia (and digestive problems) so bad that the only way to control it was through a fruitarian diet, which obviously wasn't sustainable long-term. I added animal protein back into my diet at the beginning of last year and eventually the hypoglycemia returned with vengeance to the point that I began having adrenaline attacks so bad that I would go into convulsions and pass out. NDT stopped the attacks, but I still wasn't able to tolerate muscle meat without crashing my sugars and triggering adrenaline. I'm only just now able to eat muscle meat without it crashing my sugars.

 

[Ableton]

Are you currently taking, or have you ever taken, a thyroid supplement, @Ableton? The only way I've been able to reduce my need for a constant supply of sugar (and calories in general) to keep my temps up and to feel good without stress hormones is with NDT (WP Thyroid). Before it, I had hypoglycemia (and digestive problems) so bad that the only way to control it was through a fruitarian diet, which obviously wasn't sustainable long-term. I added animal protein back into my diet at the beginning of last year and eventually the hypoglycemia returned with vengeance to the point that I began having adrenaline attacks so bad that I would go into convulsions and pass out. NDT stopped the attacks, but I still wasn't able to tolerate muscle meat without crashing my sugars and triggering adrenaline. I'm only just now able to eat muscle meat without it crashing my sugars.

I have only experimented with tyromix and found it's not for me. Heart palpitations, short, hot flashes, restlessness

 

[Broco6679]

Are you currently taking, or have you ever taken, a thyroid supplement, @Ableton? The only way I've been able to reduce my need for a constant supply of sugar (and calories in general) to keep my temps up and to feel good without stress hormones is with NDT (WP Thyroid). Before it, I had hypoglycemia (and digestive problems) so bad that the only way to control it was through a fruitarian diet, which obviously wasn't sustainable long-term. I added animal protein back into my diet at the beginning of last year and eventually the hypoglycemia returned with vengeance to the point that I began having adrenaline attacks so bad that I would go into convulsions and pass out. NDT stopped the attacks, but I still wasn't able to tolerate muscle meat without crashing my sugars and triggering adrenaline. I'm only just now able to eat muscle meat without it crashing my sugars.

Could you please expand on your overall experience with WP? I'm still debating whether to go with WP or cynoplus, and the only thing pushing me towards the latter is the renowned 2019 WP reformulation that caused many to find it stopped working for them. I've seen both positive and negative reports, so I'm really in interested in how you find it.

 

[Jennifer]

Hi @Broco6679! I've read about the reformulation controversy but for me, WP definitely works. Like I mentioned to Ableton, it stopped the convulsions and syncope episodes and it did so upon taking my first dose. Before WP, I couldn't even eat without having an attack so I was passing out multiple times a day. It had gotten so bad that my hands actually turned blue. It also improved my digestion. Again, upon the first dose, my digestion sped up and I was tolerating foods I hadn't in years. I went from only tolerating fruit for 3 years to eating quite a variety of foods. I'm even tolerating dairy now, just goat dairy currently, but I couldn't even tolerate that before. And I know blood work isn't the best indicator, but my chronically elevated alkaline phosphatase level which my doctor tested and said was coming from my bones, finally came down and is well within the normal range. That one is huge for me given the osteoporosis and vertebral fractures. Same thing happened with my mum (she's on WP, too). Her elevated alkaline phosphatase level came down, also.

 

[redsun]

I don’t know exactly what I eat in a day. I can give estimates. My main protein source is raw or fried fish (octopus, calamari). I eat 1-3,000 calories per day from prepackaged things that are high sugar and high saturated fat (twix, kit kats, little debbies, heroes from the pizzeria). I have 1-2 Liters of orange juice most days. I have 1-2 liters of raw jersey milk with a cup of sugar in each. I have dinner that my parents cook. I have oysters most days. And a few times a week I’ll eat a glass of raw eggs when i crave them.

I have a bigger build than the average person. My ideal weight is around 220 and I am 6 feet tall and I still have some inches to grow. I am sedentary due to this joke of a “quarantine”. I have about 30 extra pounds of fat on right now which has been stable for a few months so I don’t stress about it. I believe its healthier to be overweight anyway. I don’t stress about life or take it too serious.

How can you say you don't have weight gain when you are 30 lbs overweight? Its not healthier to be overweight. You are painting a false picture to more easily influenced people that they can eat high amounts of calories and not gain weight. Maybe you currently do not notice weight gain, but you are very overweight as is and its exactly because of your high calorie intake.

 

[Iraber]

How can you say you don't have weight gain when you are 30 lbs overweight? Its not healthier to be overweight. You are painting a false picture to more easily influenced people that they can eat high amounts of calories and not gain weight. Maybe you currently do not notice weight gain, but you are very overweight as is and its exactly because of your high calorie intake.

Haha man, I think you need to take a chill pill. It seems like you conflate your insecurities with the truth, almost very sadistic. If you went through half of the ***t I went through in these past 3 years, maybe you would realize that being a little overweight is the least of one’s worries. While I eat all my favorite foods every day in the amounts I want, sunbathing and listening to music, theres not much more I could ask for out of life. I know the weight will subside to where it needs to be because although I have no proof or reference that it will, almost all my other health problems have disappeared, so i dont see why it wont go away. just like my IBS has been reversed, blood sugar issues with liver glycogen problens, tachycardia, depression (i now love life), anxiety, no morning wood (it is now rock solid). i have more muscle than I ever had even in my weight lifting days. I wish you the best man and hope you get over your insecurity, snap out of the calorie cult, and start living life.

 

[redsun]

Haha man, I think you need to take a chill pill. It seems like you conflate your insecurities with the truth, almost very sadistic. If you went through half of the ***t I went through in these past 3 years, maybe you would realize that being a little overweight is the least of one’s worries. While I eat all my favorite foods every day in the amounts I want, sunbathing and listening to music, theres not much more I could ask for out of life. I know the weight will subside to where it needs to be because although I have no proof or reference that it will, almost all my other health problems have disappeared, so i dont see why it wont go away. just like my IBS has been reversed, blood sugar issues with liver glycogen problens, tachycardia, depression (i now love life), anxiety, no morning wood (it is now rock solid). i have more muscle than I ever had even in my weight lifting days. I wish you the best man and hope you get over your insecurity, snap out of the calorie cult, and start living life.

Who is not being chill? When you don't agree with someone just call them insecure and possibly sadistic lol. Why do you think I automatically count calories every day of my life? Calories do matter, but you can control intake by other means besides sheer force of will.

If you are happy overweight then I am happy for you, life is about living. My issue is your thread title and what you have been writing is deceiving.

 

[Iraber]

Who is not being chill? When you don't agree with someone just call them insecure and possibly sadistic lol. Why do you think I automatically count calories every day of my life? Calories do matter, but you can control intake by other means besides sheer force of will.

If you are happy overweight then I am happy for you, life is about living. My issue is your thread title and what you have been writing is deceiving.

There is nothing deceptive about what I am saying. Never did I say that I am some 2% body fat twink.

 

[Broco6679]

Hi @Broco6679! I've read about the reformulation controversy but for me, WP definitely works. Like I mentioned to Ableton, it stopped the convulsions and syncope episodes and it did so upon taking my first dose. Before WP, I couldn't even eat without having an attack so I was passing out multiple times a day. It had gotten so bad that my hands actually turned blue. It also improved my digestion. Again, upon the first dose, my digestion sped up and I was tolerating foods I hadn't in years. I went from only tolerating fruit for 3 years to eating quite a variety of foods. I'm even tolerating dairy now, just goat dairy currently, but I couldn't even tolerate that before. And I know blood work isn't the best indicator, but my chronically elevated alkaline phosphatase level which my doctor tested and said was coming from my bones, finally came down and is well within the normal range. That one is huge for me given the osteoporosis and vertebral fractures. Same thing happened with my mum (she's on WP, too). Her elevated alkaline phosphatase level came down, also.

Thank you for sharing your experience, Jennifer -- it is greatly appreciated :)