6 Months Into Peating, I Get Diabetes

jyb

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cantstoppeating said:
The goal is to maintain a high oxidative metabolism which is not to be reduced to, or confused for, burning lots (or an excess) of sugar.

But for Peat the aim is to burn mainly glucose for energy, hence constantly killing fatty acid oxidation with things like niacinamide or a low fat diet or frequent glucose meals (every time it will raise insulin to shut down fatty acid oxidation and let glucose go in). If that's your energy source for a high oxidative metabolism then it implies a lot of sugar.
 
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jyb said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96607/
cantstoppeating said:
The goal is to maintain a high oxidative metabolism which is not to be reduced to, or confused for, burning lots (or an excess) of sugar.

But for Peat the aim is to burn mainly glucose for energy while constantly killing fatty acid oxidation with things like niacinamide or a low fat diet. If that's your energy source for a high oxidative metabolism then it implies a lot of sugar.

Oxidative metabolism isn't the same thing as sugar burning nor do you need sugar as your primary fuel source for it to function.

Basic biochemistry:
 

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jyb

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cantstoppeating said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96608/
jyb said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96607/
cantstoppeating said:
The goal is to maintain a high oxidative metabolism which is not to be reduced to, or confused for, burning lots (or an excess) of sugar.

But for Peat the aim is to burn mainly glucose for energy while constantly killing fatty acid oxidation with things like niacinamide or a low fat diet. If that's your energy source for a high oxidative metabolism then it implies a lot of sugar.

Oxidative metabolism isn't the same thing as sugar burning or that you need sugar as your primary fuel source for it to function.

Basic biochemistry:

Agreed completely, I'm just stating Peat's view for glucose being what's best for a high oxidative metabolism. I personally use considerably more fatty acids than he recommends.
 
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jyb said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96609/
cantstoppeating said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96608/
jyb said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96607/
cantstoppeating said:
The goal is to maintain a high oxidative metabolism which is not to be reduced to, or confused for, burning lots (or an excess) of sugar.

But for Peat the aim is to burn mainly glucose for energy while constantly killing fatty acid oxidation with things like niacinamide or a low fat diet. If that's your energy source for a high oxidative metabolism then it implies a lot of sugar.

Oxidative metabolism isn't the same thing as sugar burning or that you need sugar as your primary fuel source for it to function.

Basic biochemistry:

Agreed completely, I'm just stating Peat's view for glucose being what's best for a high oxidative metabolism. I personally use considerably more fatty acids than he recommends.

Peat's main argument for using sugar is that it increases CO2 levels which provide better tissue oxygenation via the bohr effect. There are equally sound arguments for diets containing saturated fatty acids and ketones providing enhanced tissue oxygenation.

Right now I'm experimenting with both glucose and saturated fatty acids and it's proving much more beneficial to my metabolism.
 
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cantstoppeating said:
Right now I'm experimenting with both glucose and saturated fatty acids and it's proving much more beneficial to my metabolism.

What's your source of glucose?

Have you noticed a difference between using coconut fat SAFA vs. mammalian cream fat SAFA?
 
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Westside PUFAs said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96605/
cantstoppeating said:
If people aren't eating liver, oysters, eggs etc (i.e. nutrient dense foods) then it is not a Peat diet. That's another topic altogether.

Not true.

Peat does eat at least one egg a day but liver and oysters are "as available" to him. An interesting quote:

"The body has lots of flexibility, and doesn’t have to be given everything every day (or even every week).” - RP

Which makes sense when you think about daily nutrition needs. Potassium is important for example, but one can water fast for up to two months with no potassium intake, yet the RDA is around 5k mg's a day. Obviously the body has stores for it if you don't have a heart attack from electrolyte imbalance when going for a long time without any intake of it.

"Kasra: "How serious of a problem is vitamin A deficiency on an all-fruit diet?"

Peat: "Most fruits contain some carotene, and with vitamin B12 and good thyroid function, that will be turned into vitamin A."

What I get from that is, if you know you have a healthy thyroid and b12 status, then a vit. A deficiency is unlikely. But if one wants to eat liver just for extra emphasis then it's fine. But most people find liver disgusting and the stress of forcing yourself to eat it probably does more damage itself than not eating it. If eating eggs and carotene from a variety of fruits then vit. A deficency seems unlikely. But for a person who's in a hypothyroid state, I think they should try bi-weekly liver to boost preformed retinol.

As far as minerals from oysters, Peat's well cooked greens or boiled green extract should provide minerals. Selenium seems like the only one to really watch for.
Westside PUFAs said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96606/
cantstoppeating said:
The goal is to maintain a high oxidative metabolism which is not to be reduced to, or confused for, burning lots (or an excess) of sugar.

Also not true.

In one of the audio interviews Peat mentioned that having a "wasteful" metabolism is actually healthy. He said something like this: "Being in a healthy state, where you're eating a good diet and you have a fast, wasteful metabolism, to where you are very resistance to stress."

I forget which one it was exactly but I'll try to find it.

You need to reread my posts because nothing you've said is relevant to what I've posted.

You're simply pasting quotes from Peat by matching keywords to feign an understanding of him and the subject matter, it's clear you don't have a clue of what he's talking about.
 
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jyb

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cantstoppeating said:
Peat's main argument for using sugar is that it increases CO2 levels which provide better tissue oxygenation via the bohr effect. There are equally sound arguments for diets containing saturated fatty acids and ketones providing enhanced tissue oxygenation.

Right now I'm experimenting with both glucose and saturated fatty acids and it's proving much more beneficial to my metabolism.

His bias towards glucose goes far beyond alleged increased CO2 production. There are otherwise plenty of arguments in favour of saturated fatty acids for high oxidative metabolism but there is a core disagreement between Peat and others like Peter from Hyperlipid on whether it should be mostly glucose or mostly saturated fatty acids (+ relatively small amounts of glucose).
 
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cantstoppeating said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96612/ You need to reread my posts because nothing you've said is relevant to what I've posted.

You're simply pasting quotes from Peat by matching keywords to feign an understanding of him and the subject matter, it's clear you don't have a clue of what he's talking about.

:D

Authoritarian much?

My responses to you aren't really for you because I already know what you think. My responses are to clear the air for the lurkers of the forum, and there are plenty of them. I've received many PM's from people who are too embarrassed to ask openly my opinion on things and I've helped people who've wanted my opinion.

It's my job to "clear the air" on the subject of specific foods and how it relates to Peat's views because many people, such as yourself, try to paint Peat in such a narrow view in that you don't want to acknowledge when Peat has said that a particular food is safe or even recommended by him to some people when that particular food is something that you don't like or hold a dogma towards.

Don't hate the quoter, hate the truth. In other words, don't hate me for quoting Peat, or do, because you're dogmatic. It's funny that your type of view always comes from the pro-high fat crowd (Edward, you, others)

Also, all you did there was simple ad hominem.
 
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charlie

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Westside PUFAs said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96618/
cantstoppeating said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96612/ You need to reread my posts because nothing you've said is relevant to what I've posted.

You're simply pasting quotes from Peat by matching keywords to feign an understanding of him and the subject matter, it's clear you don't have a clue of what he's talking about.

:D

Authoritarian much?

My responses to you aren't really for you because I already know what you think. My responses are to clear the air for the lurkers of the forum, and there are plenty of them. I've received many PM's from people who are too embarrassed to ask openly my opinion on things and I've helped people who've wanted my opinion.

It's my job to "clear the air" on the subject of specific foods and how it relates to Peat's views because many people, such as yourself, try to paint Peat in such a narrow view in that you don't want to acknowledge when Peat has said that a particular food is safe or even recommended by him to some people when that particular food is something that you don't like or hold a dogma towards.

Don't hate the quoter, hate the truth. In other words, don't hate me for quoting Peat, or do, because you're dogmatic. It's funny that your type of view always comes from the pro-high fat crowd (Edward, you, others)

Also, all you did there was simple ad hominem.

That's all well and good but If after rereading what you wrote to my posts you still can't workout the disconnect then you need a book on reading comprehension and logic 101. You'll be able to do your self-assigned job much more effectively if you do.
 
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I'll spell it out for you:

Westside PUFAs said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96605/
cantstoppeating said:
If people aren't eating liver, oysters, eggs etc (i.e. nutrient dense foods) then it is not a Peat diet. That's another topic altogether.

Not true.

Peat does eat at least one egg a day but liver and oysters are "as available" to him. An interesting quote:

"The body has lots of flexibility, and doesn’t have to be given everything every day (or even every week).” - RP

Which makes sense when you think about daily nutrition needs. Potassium is important for example, but one can water fast for up to two months with no potassium intake, yet the RDA is around 5k mg's a day. Obviously the body has stores for it if you don't have a heart attack from electrolyte imbalance when going for a long time without any intake of it.

"Kasra: "How serious of a problem is vitamin A deficiency on an all-fruit diet?"

Peat: "Most fruits contain some carotene, and with vitamin B12 and good thyroid function, that will be turned into vitamin A."

What I get from that is, if you know you have a healthy thyroid and b12 status, then a vit. A deficiency is unlikely. But if one wants to eat liver just for extra emphasis then it's fine. But most people find liver disgusting and the stress of forcing yourself to eat it probably does more damage itself than not eating it. If eating eggs and carotene from a variety of fruits then vit. A deficency seems unlikely. But for a person who's in a hypothyroid state, I think they should try bi-weekly liver to boost preformed retinol.

As far as minerals from oysters, Peat's well cooked greens or boiled green extract should provide minerals. Selenium seems like the only one to really watch for.

What exactly is "not true" in my post?

I said to be nutrient replete one should make sure to eat foods recommended by Peat like liver, eggs and oysters i.e. nutrient dense foods. And that if you aren't you aren't on a Peat diet.

You then post quotes that only talk about how the body stores nutrients and that one can go for relatively long periods without having to eat nutrient dense food to replete nutrients. Peat even recommends to eat liver. The only thing that can be gleaned from that exchange with Peat is that one doens't need to eat liver, oysters and eggs everyday to be nutrient replete. But that isn't something I said.

So again what exactly is "not true" in my post?


Westside PUFAs said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96606/
cantstoppeating said:
The goal is to maintain a high oxidative metabolism which is not to be reduced to, or confused for, burning lots (or an excess) of sugar.

Also not true.

In one of the audio interviews Peat mentioned that having a "wasteful" metabolism is actually healthy. He said something like this: "Being in a healthy state, where you're eating a good diet and you have a fast, wasteful metabolism, to where you are very resistance to stress."

I forget which one it was exactly but I'll try to find it.

What exactly is "not true" about what I said?

I said the goal of Peating is to maintain a high oxidative metabolism.

You then say no but that it's about attaining a "wasteful" metabolism. What exactly is a "wasteful" metabolism and how does it differ from a "high oxidative metabolism"? I'll tell you: the former is a laymans description of a consequence when attaining the latter. The latter is the actual term given to what Peat is talking about. They are both not mutually exclusive.

If this isn't clear, either read his book Generative Energy or google basic biochemistry.

These are examples of where you blindly quote Peat without having a clue of what's being said. The only one being dogmatic here is you. It's fine to hate the quoter when he presents truth devoid of context in order to fit his personal dogma. It's how the medical institution demonised sugar and here you are on a mini-scale doing it with Peat while claiming to be the harbinger of truth.

If you want to be effective in your self-assigned job then it helps to 1) have a clue about basic biochemistry, 2) comprehend what people are saying without projecting your dogma and 3) see number 1 and 2.

This added absolutely nothing to the discussion and it's the last time I'll spend time correcting your erroneous and silly posts.
 
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artemis

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Westside PUFAs said:
It's my job to "clear the air" on the subject of specific foods and how it relates to Peat's views because many people, such as yourself, try to paint Peat in such a narrow view in that you don't want to acknowledge when Peat has said that a particular food is safe or even recommended by him to some people when that particular food is something that you don't like or hold a dogma towards.
Well I, for one, feel much better knowing that you are "on the job" clearing the air. But please don't neglect your other job, that of digging up people's old posts looking for lies or inconsistencies. We count on you for that! Because, you know, there was once this guy Jake Thomas and all.
 

tara

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cantstoppeating said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96604/ Right, no one can be sure they're covering all their micronutrient/trace mineral needs regardless of whatever diet they're using and as such this line of argument can be equally valid for the failure of those alternative diets i.e. what if those that failed on low-carb simply became deficient in some nutrient?
Fair point. (Though I do assume people fail on low carb diets because they are deficient in one or more nutrients, as well as potentially suffering excesses of others.)

cantstoppeating said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96604/ As I said originally, keeping protein 80-100g as a starting point and experimenting with fat and sugar while monitoring pulse, temp, colour of feet and hands along with lab work is more than sufficient to monitor progress. If one gets unstable temps and pulse at large sugar intakes then they should try lowering their sugar and increasing their fat intake to compensate. If this change brings about stable temps, pulse and warm extremities then it's a sign that the metabolism is functioning correctly.
I agree that monitoring how we do with various amounts of sugar and fat etc can be valuable, but I think it can sometimes be relevant to watch other factors too.

cantstoppeating said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96604/ The goal is to maintain a high oxidative metabolism which is not to be reduced to, or confused for, burning lots (or an excess) of sugar.
I'm not sure why high sugar burning would not correspond pretty well to high oxidative metabolism.

Westside PUFAs said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96605/ As far as minerals from oysters, Peat's well cooked greens or boiled green extract should provide minerals. Selenium seems like the only one to really watch for.
I think some soils can be quite low in various minerals, not only selenium - I would guess that eating any kind of sea food might help fill in other gaps as well as selenium. Where I am, the soil is low in iodine too.
 
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natedawggh

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tara said:
natedawggh said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/95795/ Uh, it sounds like you already had diabetes before you started increasing your sugar intake. If you hadn't already had diabetes you would have digested the sugar just fine. I eat tons of sugar every day for the last 18 months and have not only not developed diabetes, but I've lost weight and increased my metabolism.
Hi nate, I'm not suggeting you have diabetes, and I believe your reports about your own improved health lately. And you may well be right that the diabetes was there before the sugar consumption increased.
But you are aware that wasting (->weightloss) is a key (and potentially dangerous) symptom of diabetes, right?

Was someone talking about wasting? I missed that if they were.
 
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cantstoppeating said:
This added absolutely nothing to the discussion and it's the last time I'll spend time correcting your erroneous and silly posts.

I doubt it’s the last time of your attempts which are really just simple dodges.

I'm not having a debate with you about biochemistry. I'm simply putting quotes from Peat himself about certain foods so that the reader can make their own decision. it's important that I let the reader know the other side of Peat in that sense, because if I didn't post those quotes the reader would just walk away with your dogmatic version of Peat, which itself is very un-Peat.

You can repeat that tactic ad nauseam but you still fail to acknowledge the “diversity” of Peat. The tactic of “you have no idea what you’re talking about.” It’s people like you, Edward, and even Andrew Kim who claim to hold some mystical understanding about science that everyone else doesn’t. But you guys don’t realize you only appeal to a certain few with that smug attitude. Most information seeking people don’t care about that stuff. In the context of saying “if you don't eat liver and oysters then it's not a Peat diet” you bring yourself down to the basic playing field that I am talking about, not the boring biochemistry that 99% of people who go on a forum to solve their health problem don't care about. You don't need to understand biochemistry to read a quote that says "Well cooked white rice with some butter is safe."
 

Giraffe

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natedawggh said:
Was someone talking about wasting? I missed that if they were.
I remember that unintentional weight loss was mentioned in a different thread a couple of weeks ago.
 
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artemis said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96402/
lindsay said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96388/ I'm curious if you have taken the Triyotex yet, and if so, how has it been for you?
Hi Lindsay. I got the Triyotex from mymexicandrugstore, back around January (I had ordered Cynomel, but they sent Triyotex). I tried it a few times, but couldn't really tell any difference, so I stopped. Of course I don't have anything to compare it with, since this was my first time trying ANY thyroid meds. I really wanted to start with Cynomel, so I tried again with meds.com.mx. This time I was sent Tiromel. Same thing, I tried it a couple times, didn't notice anything, and stopped. So I'm just doing a little Cynoplus currently. Maybe I'll try them again, I don't know. Sorry I don't have any more definitive information for you on that!

I think it would be good to keep us updated on your progress.

You'll have to ignore those repeating "it's not the sugar it's you" message (its most vehement commentators are those who are often obese or overweight, layman and aren't regularly testing or approaching Peat with an experimental mindset). If I were in your shoes, I'd drop the sugar intake to about a third of total calories and make sure to get enough saturated fat and try pregnenolone instead of thyroid.
 
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Wilfrid

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Hi artemis,

Do you know your current copper/ceruloplasmin levels as well as iron/transferrin?
If you were ( or still are ) copper deficient when starting on a more " pro-thyroid " diet, chances are that loading on fructose or sucrose ( as compared to starch and, to a lesser extent, glucose ) exacerbate the severity of a copper deficiency.
Inadequate copper produces adverse effects on the metabolism of cholesterol and glucose, blood pressure control and heart function, mineralization of bones, and immunity.( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3226389/ )
Low copper/ceruloplasmin level often goes in hand with high iron level. And while on this diet, if you drink milk ( instead of hard aged cheese or lactose free cheese for ex.) and fruits juice ( instead of the whole fruit ), you will further aggravate the ratio between iron and copper. Fructose strongly stimulates the uptake of iron. Lactose produces also a great retention of iron ( followed by sucrose and glucose ). Starch produces the least retention. A N.I.D diet ( near iron deficiency ) is sometimes very helpful against diabetes. For copper deficient people, any substance that increases iron retention is likely to further lower copper levels even more...and, in this pattern, starches are propably the safest option ( and to a lesser extent whole fruit ) when eaten with proteins and a good quality fat source.
Taking a few supplements at physiological doses ( no more than the RDA, and only if well tolerate ) like B6, B2, taurine, niacinamide and zinc supplement ( no more than 5 mg ), A and E ( as in transdermal route ) could be good too. Or even better: beef liver, if you take no more than few ounces each day ( I think that what forum member Mittir does ) as well as an hot water extract of brewer's ( or even good quality nutritional's ) yeast as a side. I don't know how your current diet looks like but ( if you happen to be even sligthly deficient in copper and/or have excess iron ) consuming ( lactose free ) cheese (instead of milk), daily ( no more than 1-2 ounces per serving ) beef liver, eggs, shellfish ( shrimp mainly ) with well cooked starches ( like potatoes, sweet potatoes ( but the one with the white flesh) and/or white rice, if you choose the latter, thought not Peat approved, I suggest that you add some good quality blackstrap molasse to the cooking water or use any cooked greens broth as a cooking water ), good quality butter and/or good quality desodorized coconut oil ( Dr Goerg brand is the only one, to my knowledge, that does not contains any unsaturated fatty acids left, as well as being the most gut friendly coconut oil that I found so far) and whole fruits ( instead of fruits juices ) with a low fiber, tannins and irritating substances ( like lychees, longans, rambutans, sapote, cherimoyas, papaya, cooked sweet apples ect....), consuming fruits apart from your proteins intake could be helpful too. In the short term, the Ca:P ratio will not be so important, and I strongly discourage you to take any eggshell/oystershell or calcium supplement ( especially in the " carbonate " form ), as a high oral dose of calcium carbonate might produce rebound gastric hyperacidity. Such hyperacidity might actually enhance even the absorption of inorganic iron consumed in the peak acid secretion period, as nonheme iron ( as in some fruits ) absorption is favored by a low intraluminal pH ( source: Nutrient Interactions, C.E Bodwell and John W. Erdman, Jr. , page 120 ).
Of course, and I repeat myself, you can try this dietary approach only if you are copper deficient and/or have high iron levels.
 
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artemis

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Quick update: Had my first appointment with the naturopathic doctor Friday. I'm signed up for a 6-week "package" with her, where I will keep food logs, etc., and go in once a week. She said something that was worth the price of admission all by itself: she said "You don't have diabetes."

I DON'T HAVE DIABETES!

I know it's just semantics. I know it may be silly, but it helped me so much just to hear that! Even Ray talks about it that way, I remember him referring to it as "this thing they call diabetes," or sometimes he'll put it in quotation marks. Yes, my blood glucose has been really crazy lately. Was probably a combination of factors that tipped the scales in that direction. But it's OK, I can tip them back. I'm gonna be OK!

I'm still working things out as far as this eating plan, but mainly it's just really clean eating, no processed foods, liver once a week, no coffee on an empty stomach (I was kind of bad about that, skipped breakfast sometimes), using a lot of cinnamon and honey in different ways. I'm supposed to drink a couple cups of this steeped cinnamon and baking soda water throughout the day. Diet will be pretty Peaty. She likes a ratio of about 45 - 50% carbs, with around 25% protein and 25% fat. I'm a little nervous about eating that much carbs after it was no carbs that finally brought my numbers down, but we'll see. I think now that the "crisis" period of the really high blood glucose has passed, the main goal, according to her, is not to have lowest numbers possible, the goal is to repair the cell, and get it to use glucose again.

I stopped taking the Metformin, also stopped all supplements, at her suggestion. Except Vitamin E, she did recommend to take Unique-E, which I have been. That'll be weird, since I've turned into a supplement-a-holic, especially lately, trying everything to fix this. It'll be a nice break from all that, just trying to accomplish everything through food. Lots of organic fruits and some vegetables, meat, fish, dairy, gelatin, etc. I would say it's Peaty but a little less restrictive, like berries are OK, strained yogurt is OK, stuff like that. Of course no PUFAs. She prefers 3 meals a day with snacks as needed, as opposed to the constant grazing I usually do. Sometimes 3 larger meals are better for satiety, instead of maybe having the body/cells feel as if they're never quite getting enough?

Will keep y'all updated. I may have to start a new thread, or change the title of this one, because
I DON'T HAVE DIABETES!
 

SQu

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That's really great artemis!!
She sounds wonderful. a doctor of all people saying the goal is to repair health rather than fixate on numbers. How refreshing!
 

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