6 Months Into Peating, I Get Diabetes

[artemis]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96388/ I'm curious if you have taken the Triyotex yet, and if so, how has it been for you?

Hi Lindsay. I got the Triyotex from mymexicandrugstore, back around January (I had ordered Cynomel, but they sent Triyotex). I tried it a few times, but couldn't really tell any difference, so I stopped. Of course I don't have anything to compare it with, since this was my first time trying ANY thyroid meds. I really wanted to start with Cynomel, so I tried again with meds.com.mx. This time I was sent Tiromel. Same thing, I tried it a couple times, didn't notice anything, and stopped. So I'm just doing a little Cynoplus currently. Maybe I'll try them again, I don't know. Sorry I don't have any more definitive information for you on that!

 

[schultz]

I'm not clear why all the fuss about meat in this thread. After all, Peat himself eats meat, e.g. I heard an interview in which a phone-in caller asked what he'd eaten that day, and he said it was "one of his steak days". He also recommends cheese and eggs in moderation. You just have to balance the meat protein with gelatin, and of course not have too much of it.

Ray generally recommends not going over 8oz of meat and/or equivalent of eggs per day. If you weigh it out it's really not that much meat. The phosphorus in these things is also a concern and gelatin wouldn't balance out that aspect. I've never heard him say cheese in moderation (except for high fat cheeses like brie), but I could be wrong.

 

[tara]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96348/ My first appointment with the naturopathic doctor is next week..... So she focuses on retraining the body to use the sugar.

This sounds hopeful to me. :)

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/95795/ Uh, it sounds like you already had diabetes before you started increasing your sugar intake. If you hadn't already had diabetes you would have digested the sugar just fine. I eat tons of sugar every day for the last 18 months and have not only not developed diabetes, but I've lost weight and increased my metabolism.

Hi nate, I'm not suggeting you have diabetes, and I believe your reports about your own improved health lately. And you may well be right that the diabetes was there before the sugar consumption increased.
But you are aware that wasting (->weightloss) is a key (and potentially dangerous) symptom of diabetes, right?

 

[tara]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96357/ Well done @artemis for speaking up for yourself. I'm frankly shocked at the way a minority of responders have taken it upon themselves to question your word and generally preach at you.

I agree.

I'm not clear why all the fuss about meat in this thread. After all, Peat himself eats meat, e.g. I heard an interview in which a phone-in caller asked what he'd eaten that day, and he said it was "one of his steak days". He also recommends cheese and eggs in moderation. You just have to balance the meat protein with gelatin, and of course not have too much of it.

I'm not sure what you are seeing here that I'm missing - I don't think I've seen any posts on this thread saying OP should not eat meat (with the possible exception of my suggestion to consider looking into Gerson therapy as one of a number of possible avenues to explore). There are a few posts referring to issues with very high protein/meat consumption, but why should people not post about that?

Peat doesn't have diabetes (as far as I know), so his situation is not the same as OP's. He eats meat some days as part of his protein, but he also eats lots of carbs. He doesn't try to live on meat, cheese, and eggs alone. He suggests balancing not only amino acids (eg with gelatin), but also phosphate to calcium ratio (as pboy points out, meat is high in phosphate, so adding calcium may help with this) and protein to carb ratio (by always eating carbs with protein). He also pays some attention to not eating too much more fat than he thinks is good for him, and has reportedly been lately trying to eat less fat in favour of more carbs in order to decrease PUFA intake.

 

[cantstoppeating]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/95535/ cantstoppeating, I remember you said you've been dealing with blood glucose issues recently as well. I do take those hormones, but only in fairly low doses. Maybe I should try a larger dose of pregnenolone. I've never really noticed anything from it. Have you found any help in any of the other things you've tried? (Weren't you trying stuff like aspirin/B-vitamins/specific amino acids?)

What's helped the most thus far is reducing my sugar intake, eliminating OJ altogether, and eating more saturated fat via cheese so that my macronutrient breakdown is approximately a third of each.

If my hands and feet are constantly warm and pink in colour then it shows that my blood glucose is stable and that I'm not running on stress hormones and whatever regenerative process that was dormant has finally kicked in.

What I'm sure of is that increasing my sugar intake accelerated all the degenerative processes and the experiments I ran (like aspirin, B-vitmain dosing and caffeine) generally had short term benefits that at best, I think, only temporarily ameliorated the damage caused by my high sugar intake. I still don't know for certain whether sugar is bad per se because I didn't have access to frequent blood work to get accurate feedback and make adjustments but until I can (i.e. Theranos), I'm laying off the sugar -- especially OJ as it was uniquely destructive, for me.

 

[jyb]

What's helped the most thus far is reducing my sugar intake, eliminating OJ altogether, and eating more saturated fat via cheese so that my macronutrient breakdown is approximately a third of each.

I fixed most of my issues eliminating OJ and sugar - replaced by cream. There is more than enough glucose in what I eat otherwise to avoid stress and I have less hypoglycaemia symptoms, so if anything it results in better use of sugar. I know Peat has a preference of glucose oxidation, but in my experience and from what I read, saturated fatty acid oxidation seems superior: mood stability, athletic performance, thyroid use, uncoupling, thermogenesis, CO2... I know I get a few more grams of pufa from using fats, but my health is better so I don't worry about a potential pufa accumulation. I'm lean so it's not like my metabolism is lower.

 

[schultz]

What's helped the most thus far is reducing my sugar intake, eliminating OJ altogether, and eating more saturated fat via cheese so that my macronutrient breakdown is approximately a third of each.

How much fat does that end up being for you? - or - How many calories do you eat a day?

 

[lindsay]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96402/

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96388/ I'm curious if you have taken the Triyotex yet, and if so, how has it been for you?

Hi Lindsay. I got the Triyotex from mymexicandrugstore, back around January (I had ordered Cynomel, but they sent Triyotex). I tried it a few times, but couldn't really tell any difference, so I stopped. Of course I don't have anything to compare it with, since this was my first time trying ANY thyroid meds. I really wanted to start with Cynomel, so I tried again with meds.com.mx. This time I was sent Tiromel. Same thing, I tried it a couple times, didn't notice anything, and stopped. So I'm just doing a little Cynoplus currently. Maybe I'll try them again, I don't know. Sorry I don't have any more definitive information for you on that!

From my experience, you don't notice thyroid until you stop taking it - which is the downside to taking it. I hate the fact that I seem to need it, but I have been able to reduce my dose significantly in the past two years as I've reduced stress, so I just realize that my body is still in healing mode. I am a bit younger, but have a lot of hormonal issues that happened prior to and following an Oophorectomy. Basically my body stopped producing any progesterone and after the surgery, I went from being a scrawny little thing to gaining about 20 or 30 lbs. in a super short time. I've learned to just deal with the fact that my hormones are all over the place and I have more estrogen to deal with. I'm still quite lean, but I deal with fluid retention regularly and I find that the ONLY thing that helps with it is thyroid. It also really helps my digestion. I have been switching back to Thiroyd (which I tried last summer and didn't like so much) and I notice immediately that I retain more fluid throughout the day. If I go back to my sparing supply of Cynoplus, I do much better, but I cannot order that any longer, so I'm using it sparingly in hopes that somewhere will carry it in the future.

Anyhow, all that to say that I never noticed much of a difference until I started taking Cynoplus (a combo of T4 and T3) when RP recommended it might help bring back a cycle (I'm infertile). It did, but then it stopped. Now I prefer a lower dose of Cynoplus with some occasional T3 and that feels really good. I have better digestion and don't get that darn water retention.

If you can solve your issues without thyroid usage, you are better off. I would never have started it, except I was desperate and while it didn't solve my main problem, I've become a much more sane person since I began using it - along with Progesterone. It's like I found the balance I'd been looking for for years. Unfortunately, my TSH was high, but not high enough to have a doctor prescribe me thyroid - which is fine because I'd rather not deal with getting prescriptions from doctors. That has not worked in the past.

That being said (sorry - I am long winded sometimes), After a year and a half I gave up on following any rigid diet and decided to follow my cravings. It's helped, I think. I still eat sugar and crave sugar, but I try to eat only natural sugars (I cheat a lot with candy, but I'm human). RP mentions that the body handles natural sugars - like from fruits - better because there are minerals in the fruit which play a role in the body's handling of sugar. I wouldn't be recommending anyone to eat 200 to 400 grams of sugar and carbs if it makes you feel bad. I think following cravings is a more natural approach. And logically, if you are eating a lot of fruit, consuming those carbs comes with bulk and you will feel fuller. I've also found that OJ and oranges have become a staple for me - they contain compounds that help keep estrogen lower, which is important as a woman. Maybe you could try a good marmalade? I recently rediscovered marmalade recently - one made with only fruit sugars - and it's amazing! I eat a tiny bit whenever I am feeling like a candy craving coming on. And I drink OJ daily, but usually in small amounts and mixed with carbonated water. If it bothers you, I would stop drinking it. I just find that I really love oranges and OJ, so I stick with it. And I used to HATE OJ. But now I crave it daily.

I haven't been on the forum as much lately on account of a busy work schedule and photo project, but I hope that you will find some good help from people on here! Be realistic and realize that healing is a process - that's the best advice I can offer. And also, don't stress. One of the best things I've done for myself this past year is engage my creative half and engage more in my love of photography - I stopped thinking so much about my health and the impact was profound, which is why I think RP likes to paint and engage a different part of his brain. We are holistic beings, after all.

 

[cantstoppeating]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96432/

What's helped the most thus far is reducing my sugar intake, eliminating OJ altogether, and eating more saturated fat via cheese so that my macronutrient breakdown is approximately a third of each.

How much fat does that end up being for you? - or - How many calories do you eat a day?

Trying to piece together a practical plan from Peat's writing is an ongoing experimental challenge: in one place he says that carb to protein ratio should be at least 2:1 because dairy and egg protein can be extremely insulinogenic, in his books he talks about the importance of saturated fat via coconut oil yet in his online articles and through personal emails he said that even saturated fat displaces glucose in the mitochondria and should be limited. Any one of these suggestions does not lend itself to a macronutrient split of a third each and yet, as you've shown, he's said a third of each macronutrient is good.

The one thing that's constant is his protein recommendation of 80-100grams, that aside, the carb and fat amounts are left to personal experimentation.

Personally, a protein intake of 80-120g/day with carbs at 200-400g/day and fat at <15g/day only worsened my health at both a calorie deficit and a surplus. A third of each (as a % of calories) like 60g of fat, and 120g of sugar and 120g of protein seem to be moving me to better health.

 

[cantstoppeating]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/95782/

...

I've been thinking an analogy about energy. If sugar oxidation is the primary energy supply, and the fat-burning processes are a built-in back-up generator (and maybe glycolysis too - haven't thought through the analogy for this). When the primary energy system is out of fuel (ie there's a sugar deficiency), it's really handy to be able to turn to the backup fat-burning system, even though it's a little noisier, and creates a little more pollution, and does a little damage along the way. If it's brief, and everything is working as it should, it's not much problem, and you can easily clean it up after the main system is back up. If the main energy system is not working, you really need a back-up, too, and you may sometimes need to quit flooding the malfunctioning system with what is usually it's preferred fuel. But then you have a choice about whether to try to repair the main system, or patch it with drugs or supplemental insulin (which have their own risks), etc, or give up on it, stop supplying high-octane fuel, and just accept running on the back-up system indefinitely, even though running on it long-term will inevitable cause damage of it's own, and make it harder to repair the main system. In this case, repairing the main system may mean cleaning up the secondary fuel and biproducts, not flooding it with preferred backup fuel that will clog the main system.

This is a good analogy but in practise it may be that glucose is the back up fuel and fatty acids are the high-octane fuel, or that they are both equally as good: a simple organism like a worm can use glucose, even a cell in a petri dish but to use fat it requires more "machinery" i.e. more "structure" (like the "machinery" and "structure" that we humans have), and as Peat is fond of saying "structure" begets "function" and "function" begets "structure".

This doesn't invalidate Peat's central tenant of increasing metabolism and in fact his own diet was higher in fat until he decided to reduce it as a way to reduce PUFA consumption.

A Peat centric approach is to keep protein at 80-100g a day (maybe more) and then experiment with the fat and carb ratios while monitoring pulse and temp and checking for physical signs like warm hands/feet and getting bloodwork.

 

[slayers]

ou're a rare breed indeed.

Exactly has nothing to do with peat diet or not...

 

[slayers]

I was probably around 8% BF and having strong libido when my macros were about.
I feel very sluggish and tired when i eat more fat (especially dairy) and feel better when i eat more sugar.
; 150g protein; 300g carbs. 55g fat

 

[tara]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96441/ This is a good analogy but in practise it may be that glucose is the back up fuel and fatty acids are the high-octane fuel, or that they are both equally as good: a simple organism like a worm can use glucose, even a cell in a petri dish but to use fat it requires more "machinery" i.e. more "structure" (like the "machinery" and "structure" that we humans have), and as Peat is fond of saying "structure" begets "function" and "function" begets "structure".

You could be right (I'm skeptical, though), or it could be that we are not all the same even genetically, or it could be that we all started out as preferentially burning more sugar, but many of us have had too much stress of various kinds, and too few resources, and have somewhat damaged glucose oxidation apparatus. I think that would also be consistent with the many stories of people having trouble with too much sugar.

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96441/ This doesn't invalidate Peat's central tenant of increasing metabolism and in fact his own diet was higher in fat until he decided to reduce it as a way to reduce PUFA consumption.

Higher than it is now, yes,
but as far as I know, i recent years, not generally higher in fat calories than carb calories.

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96441/ A Peat centric approach is to keep protein at 80-100g a day (maybe more) and then experiment with the fat and carb ratios while monitoring pulse and temp and checking for physical signs like warm hands/feet and getting bloodwork.

I agree that Peat strongly favours observing the personal effects of food, and using core and peripheral temps, pulse, and sometimes blood tests. With severe blood sugar dysregulation, testing glucose levels regularly seems as though it coould be very useful (either by the home tester or possibly by refractmeter).
There are some factors that may not show up quickly, though, so it's not necessarily the only guide. For instance, one could eat a diet that made one feel great and show all the signs of improving metabolism, until one eventually hits deficiencies in particular nutrients, or until the body adapts to a chnaged in habits and counters some of the apparently beneficial effects. I think this latter might be at play in the stories of people who say they felt great on low carb diets - until after a while they felt much worset, and for quite a few, their fasting blood sugars kept going up even though they were not eating any carbs.

 

[cantstoppeating]

...

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96441/ A Peat centric approach is to keep protein at 80-100g a day (maybe more) and then experiment with the fat and carb ratios while monitoring pulse and temp and checking for physical signs like warm hands/feet and getting bloodwork.

I agree that Peat strongly favours observing the personal effects of food, and using core and peripheral temps, pulse, and sometimes blood tests. With severe blood sugar dysregulation, testing glucose levels regularly seems as though it coould be very useful (either by the home tester or possibly by refractmeter).
There are some factors that may not show up quickly, though, so it's not necessarily the only guide. For instance, one could eat a diet that made one feel great and show all the signs of improving metabolism, until one eventually hits deficiencies in particular nutrients, or until the body adapts to a chnaged in habits and counters some of the apparently beneficial effects. I think this latter might be at play in the stories of people who say they felt great on low carb diets - until after a while they felt much worset, and for quite a few, their fasting blood sugars kept going up even though they were not eating any carbs.

Sure but we're using "diet" in the context of Peating so making sure one is getting enough nutrients via things like liver, eggs and oysters is a given.

Indeed, feeling good alone isn't a good indicator. Which is why watching the pulse and temp, along with the colour and warmth of the hands and feet is a much better health indicator. With bloodwork in conjunction one will quickly know whether their feeling good is down to adrenaline and cortisol or thyroid.

Without bloodwork the only challenge is differentiating the effects of cortisol and thyroid: high cortisol levels (and low adrenaline) simulate the effects of thyroid. Feet, hands and general body temperature are warm and mood is great but it comes at a cost of burning one's own protein stores. This is what I believe most people who feel good on low carb experience but no one has done it via a Peat-ish paradigm whereas if they did would quickly spot the increased cortisol levels and either eat a slower releasing sugar and/or eat more sugar and/or experiment with a ketogenic diet -- all with the goal of increasing metabolism .

 

[tara]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96511/ Sure but we're using "diet" in the context of Peating so making sure one is getting enough nutrients via things like liver, eggs and oysters is a given.

I'm not sure that this assumption is warranted. People here eat all sorts of variants. Some of them don't look as though are generous with all nutrients. Certainly not everyone here eats oysters and liver regularly.

I'm not sure that it is always easy to know exactly whether we are getting what we need, either. Our nutrient needs can differ; our ability to absorb and utilise nutrients can be affected by our current state, by other things we are eating at the same time, and by other factors like work and sunshine; several of the smaller trace nutrients are not presented in things like cronometer; and the actual nutrients in foods can vary wildly depending on such factors as soil and growing conditions, while we only have access to some standard charts.

I do agree that the monitoring you recommend can be very helpful, and that we can make some good guesses about getting nutrient needs met.

 

[cantstoppeating]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96584/

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96511/ Sure but we're using "diet" in the context of Peating so making sure one is getting enough nutrients via things like liver, eggs and oysters is a given.

I'm not sure that this assumption is warranted. People here eat all sorts of variants. Some of them don't look as though are generous with all nutrients. Certainly not everyone here eats oysters and liver regularly.

I'm not sure that it is always easy to know exactly whether we are getting what we need, either. Our nutrient needs can differ; our ability to absorb and utilise nutrients can be affected by our current state, by other things we are eating at the same time, and by other factors like work and sunshine; several of the smaller trace nutrients are not presented in things like cronometer; and the actual nutrients in foods can vary wildly depending on such factors as soil and growing conditions, while we only have access to some standard charts.

I do agree that the monitoring you recommend can be very helpful, and that we can make some good guesses about getting nutrient needs met.

I'm not addressing adherence; I'm talking about the effects of a Peat diet which assumes adherence, you're introducing factors of adherence e.g. whether or not people eat liver, oysters etc to make sure they're nutrient replete. If people aren't eating liver, oysters, eggs etc (i.e. nutrient dense foods) then it is not a Peat diet. That's another topic altogether.

Sure, just because we eat something doesn't mean we'll absorb it. Any numbers of things can influence bioavailability of nutrients in foods, which is why it's important to be eating liver, eggs and oysters to rule out baser issues like nutrient deficiencies when assessing the greater physiological impact of various macronutrient ratios.

Underneath all that however, I think what you're saying is, "if the Peating isn't working for you, it could be that you're not absorbing enough nutrients in your current state, and/or that your increased metabolism has caused unknown deficiencies in nutrients or something else, so keep tweaking and measuring until you fix it (while continuing to eat lots of sugar)."

 

[tara]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96595/ I'm not addressing adherence; I'm talking about the effects of a Peat diet which assumes adherence, you're introducing factors of adherence e.g. whether or not people eat liver, oysters etc to make sure they're nutrient replete. If people aren't eating liver, oysters, eggs etc (i.e. nutrient dense foods) then it is not a Peat diet. That's another topic altogether.

I do consider getting adequate micronutrients to be one of the important factors in a Peat-inspired diet. I recommend oysters and liver too, where they are available and agree with people (which is oviously not the case for everyone).

However, I do not ascribe to the idea that 'the Peat Diet' can be defined in such a way as to determine whether each of us is 'adhering' to it or not (at least not consistent with Peat's writing on the subject). But that's another discussion, which has been considerably debated elsewhere - I guess this is not the thread in which to rehash that.

Nutrient-dense as they are, I don't know whether or not liver and oysters cover all the trace nutrients. But I would not expect them to cover all micronutrient needs.

 

[cantstoppeating]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96597/

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96595/ I'm not addressing adherence; I'm talking about the effects of a Peat diet which assumes adherence, you're introducing factors of adherence e.g. whether or not people eat liver, oysters etc to make sure they're nutrient replete. If people aren't eating liver, oysters, eggs etc (i.e. nutrient dense foods) then it is not a Peat diet. That's another topic altogether.

I do consider getting adequate micronutrients to be one of the important factors in a Peat-inspired diet. I recommend oysters and liver too, where they are available and agree with people (which is oviously not the case for everyone).

However, I do not ascribe to the idea that 'the Peat Diet' can be defined in such a way as to determine whether each of us is 'adhering' to it or not (at least not consistent with Peat's writing on the subject). But that's another discussion, which has been considerably debated elsewhere - I guess this is not the thread in which to rehash that.

Nutrient-dense as they are, I don't know whether or not liver and oysters cover all the trace nutrients. But I would not expect them to cover all micronutrient needs.

Right, no one can be sure they're covering all their micronutrient/trace mineral needs regardless of whatever diet they're using and as such this line of argument can be equally valid for the failure of those alternative diets i.e. what if those that failed on low-carb simply became deficient in some nutrient? This gets us nowhere and it's approaching a strawman argument that I didn't initiate.

As I said originally, keeping protein 80-100g as a starting point and experimenting with fat and sugar while monitoring pulse, temp, colour of feet and hands along with lab work is more than sufficient to monitor progress. If one gets unstable temps and pulse at large sugar intakes then they should try lowering their sugar and increasing their fat intake to compensate. If this change brings about stable temps, pulse and warm extremities then it's a sign that the metabolism is functioning correctly.

The goal is to maintain a high oxidative metabolism which is not to be reduced to, or confused for, burning lots (or an excess) of sugar.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

If people aren't eating liver, oysters, eggs etc (i.e. nutrient dense foods) then it is not a Peat diet. That's another topic altogether.

Not true.

Peat does eat at least one egg a day but liver and oysters are "as available" to him. An interesting quote:

"The body has lots of flexibility, and doesn’t have to be given everything every day (or even every week).” - RP

Which makes sense when you think about daily nutrition needs. Potassium is important for example, but one can water fast for up to two months with no potassium intake, yet the RDA is around 5k mg's a day. Obviously the body has stores for it if you don't have a heart attack from electrolyte imbalance when going for a long time without any intake of it.

"Kasra: "How serious of a problem is vitamin A deficiency on an all-fruit diet?"

Peat: "Most fruits contain some carotene, and with vitamin B12 and good thyroid function, that will be turned into vitamin A."

What I get from that is, if you know you have a healthy thyroid and b12 status, then a vit. A deficiency is unlikely. But if one wants to eat liver just for extra emphasis then it's fine. But most people find liver disgusting and the stress of forcing yourself to eat it probably does more damage itself than not eating it. If eating eggs and carotene from a variety of fruits then vit. A deficency seems unlikely. But for a person who's in a hypothyroid state, I think they should try bi-weekly liver to boost preformed retinol.

As far as minerals from oysters, Peat's well cooked greens or boiled green extract should provide minerals. Selenium seems like the only one to really watch for.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

The goal is to maintain a high oxidative metabolism which is not to be reduced to, or confused for, burning lots (or an excess) of sugar.

Also not true.

In one of the audio interviews Peat mentioned that having a "wasteful" metabolism is actually healthy. He said something like this: "Being in a healthy state, where you're eating a good diet and you have a fast, wasteful metabolism, to where you are very resistance to stress."

I forget which one it was exactly but I'll try to find it.