6 months beeing very strict

[Maya]

Hi!

I never posted anything on here… I just jumped into this kind of eating cold turkey..and waited for some results…

Last Summer, before I knew about Ray Peat.. I worked in the tropics for the Summer. It was hot and since I’m always hot, I didn’t miss warm foods…so mostly I ate

B: millet with an egg and coffee (or buckwheat kasha or corn flakes with raw milk and dates)

S: fruits (pineapple/figs/oranges)

L: 3 bananas and peanut butter (oil poured out) for late lunch

D: (just every 2nd or 3rd day) -meat, carrots, some rice crackers

Those bananas and PB really made me full and I was eagerly waiting to have them every single day.

Without realizing I lost around 10 pounds – I actually realized I lost that much when I returned home, from the summer work and saw myself in my old clothes.

Then I found out about Ray Peat…and in September I was sooo excited to start with dairy, fruits, gelatin, sugar… Everything made so much sense… I print out all his articles and read piece by piece…

I start gaining weight (I didn't eat tons of calories and I was super strict...even through all the holidays..I NEVER ate out, always only used coconut oil...no grains, starch.)..I was feeling more and more tired…

I mostly ate cottage cheese, oranges, dry fruits, gelatin, meat broths, some potatoes , coffee with organic raw cane sugar and raw milk. I even did 2 weeks of only potatoes, OJ, coffee and gelatin.. (one doctor works according to RP and she put me on this “Start up” with just potatoes and gelatin) – I didn’t lose anything, just got extremely tired of potatoes fried in coconut oil.

I'm from Europe, we do have good milk and I get cheese from the farmers that still use animal rennet.

I kept gaining weight, I felt tired, sluggish…with face full of acne.
The ONLY good thing was that I had NO cravings for starchy foods
My morning temperature did rise and my pulse got better, but I kept gaining weight.

My eyes start getting puffy, the upper eyelid start literally hanging, so people start asking me what's wrong with me…I had no idea what to do.
I used aspirin, vitamin E, gelatin…Orange juice (our 100% OJ not from concentrate is super expensive – ¼ gallon costs around 7 $)…

After 2 months of eating like this my breasts start getting incredibly sore..first around ovulation all the way until the 3rd day of period…it was so bad I could not be without the tightest sports bra… I even wanted to sleep in it, because they were bigger and oh so sore…

The gynecologist kept asking me if I was pregnant. No, I wasn't. The only thing changed was my diet,

Then I wondered if I was estrogen dominant from all the cottage cheese? Something must have been in the foods I was eating..as I do not drink from plastic bottles, our water is not contaminated with hormones that much…and such a change in just 2 months was clearly from the diet changes.

4 months later nothing changed. I was too tired, with terrible acne, now and then I got bad pinching in teeth and the weight gain…so I start getting depressed, too. I used vitamin A (on the skin) and start taking Progest-E.

No change. I was just more and more tired. I could sleep for 10 hours straight (I never had problems sleeping)..

I stopped eating oranges, drinking OJ,…nothing. Everything stayed the same.

Then I gave up.

Immediately when I stopped eating fruits, sugar and gelatin, my face was less bloated. The skin above my eyes (sorry, dunno how you call that part of the eyes that gets puffy?) is still very loose, but it’s not that puffy anymore. Now for the first month in half year my breasts aren’t sore anymore.

So, I’m wondering…

Is it possible there’s tons of estrogen in low fat cottage cheese? (I used one without any additives /guar gum,…)
Is it possible that all the sugar is affecting certain body types differently? (I remember always having cravings when I ate sugar…and I know many people that don’t feel good on tons of fruit..)

I’m really in a sort of a hard place, because everything Ray writes about makes sooo much sense…and I would love to make it work….but … my body doesn’t seem to feel good on it.

Anyone else with common issues?
Maybe I didn’t insist on it long enough? (I was just really getting depressed. I looked terrible, bloated, fat, with pimples, saggy eyelids and puffy eyes and very very tired…)

And
Is it actually possible that estrogen was just “coming out” (of somewhere) and that this was just a release of it ..that showed up in all these negative effects?

I would appreciate any input… cuz I’m really lost…

Thank You,

Maya

 

[Suikerbuik]

Follow your body it's telling the truth, I'd not force anything and not be soo strict that it stresses you out. It's too difficult to judge based on forum interaction. Anyway it could be your digestive system that forms a problem, you have any issues with this? (allergies for example). You have (or had?) thyroid issues??

A digestive system that isn't working properly is also a huge burden to the liver, endoxin is a likely player that can also affect acne and other immune/hormonal issues via various ways. Besides that it strengthens both serotonin's and estrogen's effect on the body as these 3 are tightly related to eachother and gut function (permeability and motility).

A grated carrot (you didn't mention) may help with estrogen issues and help establish a better environment in the gut.

 

[Maya]

Thank you, Suikerbuik,

that might be!
I never had any allergies nor thyroid issues... This is very interesting though - that serotonin and estrgoen and endoxin are so related...
I forgot to mention that every day I did eat carrot salad with salt, coconut oil and vinegar.

Thank you for your input!!! I appreciate it a lot.

 

[SQu]

sorry to hear about this and not sure what I can contribute, other than to agree and to also mention that often I've found that something that doesn't work initially works great on a second, milder or slower attempt.

 

[Maya]

Sueq, I was also thinking to maybe slowly add some of those foods in again... and see step by step what would happen... I LOVE reading all the great experiences on this forum and the whole philosophy really resonates with me... Maybe it was just too big of a change, too fast....
Thanks

 

[Peata]

Maya, I have some of those symptoms you described as part of estrogen dominance symptoms. I think I've had some of them my whole life, but others really came on strong mid-late 30s.

It looks like you were not eating dairy there and only started it when you came home... and you were eating starch there, but not at home..? I don't know if it can be figured out by answers to these, i was just curious.

Also, what is your diet like now?

I guess it's possible you are having a release of estrogen from your tissues, having negative effect on thyroid too.

 

[Blossom]

I was wondering if part of your situation could be related to the winter sickness. Working in the tropics for the summer and then returning to Europe for the Fall/Winter seasons could definitely have an impact. It may not be the one sole cause of your issues but I would suspect it has played a role. I think fruits in Europe probably have more starch than the nice tropical fruits you had during your time spent at the summer job. I mainly have juice and cooked fruits because of the low quality of fruits where I live.

 

[Filip1993]

I've seen a lot of improvement cutting out most fruits except orange juice and occasional cooked fruit and replaced it with white sugar/coke. Ideally I would eat fruit, but most fruits are not well-ripened and can cause a lot of problems just like Blossom said. When eating a lot of white sugar/coke I supplement some B-vitamins.

 

[SQu]

I did well for 4 months with some peaty things but not strict - aspirin, sugar, coffee, but not too much else to begin with. then I went strict, on top of having a stress rebound from a period of overwork, and I felt terrible for 2 months. for a few days I gave up completely, during which time I felt better, partly I am sure due to lowering the mental stress of the worries, then felt ready to continue, which I did, after which many improvements followed. in retrospect and I think RP has talked of it somewhere, a big change of diet is in itself stressful even when it is designed to lower stress. ironic, but I suffered needlessly now that I look back on it. and I do think the tropical environment beats the temperate one, not that one can usually do much about that!

 

[Maya]

Peata, hi! :) I read most of your blog and I was actually following you a lot during my periods of painful breasts...I start taking B vitamins to see if that helped, too! :)
I think you are very strong and your determination I respect!! I gave up much earlier...

I was wondering, too - if it was actually the release of estrogen from my tissues that caused all that and I didn't push long enough... and it was HEALING and not producing more damage...

I used to have very low heart rate (even down to 40 few years back) and low body temperature - that got better while Peating. (sorry, it sounds such non-respectful word, but I mean - eating foods he recommends)... that's why I also thought I should continue. My TSH is still around 2.5 and maybe I should take some Naturethroid? I would have to study a bit more about T3 and T4 first...

Dairy - Yes, that is true - I was not having dairy for a year or two before (I kept trying all kinds of eating...I was on traditional chinese medicine kind of diet that one doctor is perscribing to people here, MOST of them extremely succesful, but me... She gave up on me, sayin she doesnt know why it is not working ...but there was no dairy.) - though I did have occasional days when I ate whatever I wanted (so I was never 100% off if)...

I ate millet, oats and some corn a year or two before, as well (the doctor recommended me millet - I just cooked it in water, mixed one egg in it and ate it with a spoonful of jam).

Right now I am following the diet for Thyroid types according to dr.Abravanel body type diet.
Interestingly it is quite opposite to Ray Peat...but since I am off caffeine, sugar... I feel much more stable with energy during the day. I personally know many people that got very healthy and lost weight with the body type diet (different body type needs different support for weakened glands) and my skin looks better, I have more stable energy, no more painful breasts and my weight is stable and slowly going down.
Adrenal and gonadal types do well on fruit, but for thyroid it is suppose to worsen the symptoms. I know I know, completely opposite of RP... I am confused!

Do I miss fruit? Yes. But I don't miss the way it made me feel.

So, I eat:
B: 2 eggs, piece of oat cracker (oats and salt) and decaf coffee
L: Meat, veggies (I know I dont miss them at all), masa harina tortilla, cup of milk/yogurt/cottage cheese
D: Meat, raw carrots (+salt/vinegar/coc.oil), masa harina tortilla or rice or bulgur..., 1 cup of milk

I still only use coconut oil and try to not have much of the veggies. I could have other starch, but I ordered masa harina from States, so I make simple tortillas from it.

Blossom! Thank You for your input. :)
I agree, winter must have a different effect, too. I was back on the islands in December for a month... and the heat I felt inside was killing me -thats why I mostly ate cold cottage cheese with some fruit jam (homemade)

I was OK eating cheese, meats, gelatin, fruit...here, because it was cold enough...but when I got to Florida, 70F was already unberable for me...
So - the whole - temperature thing was weird. I thought that if you are hot your metabolism should be high...yet, I kept gaining weight...(my hands, feet are heating big time, I have been overheating my whole life and no doctor ever found out what the heck is wrong with my heating...my body temperature was normal or even lower, but I would radiate heat from my hands big time. I spent 20 bucks for heating this Winter, because I never even turned on the heating. I like having 60F C in my apartment and when it gets to 70F outside, I avoid being out)...

Fruits here are really not ripe enough. True. That's why I tried to eat oranges (they are ripe) and apples (we pick them when they are ripe)...I also used cream of tartar with them. But Summer is coming and more fruits available even in our own garden... and it makes all the sense I should be able to have them...

Filip, maybe I should have tried that. I was still a bit scared of pure sugar (I know, I know...all those scary lies we were fed with!!!!)...

I am trying to be lose with eating now...I agree, the stress of what we put in our mouth is probably worse than starch, PUFA ...

I am so eager to try with fruits/sugar again... More Im reading, more sense it all has... but I'm afraid of all those symptoms to come back... Hmmmmmm.

 

[Blossom]

Double post.

 

[Blossom]

I wonder if feeling hot all the time could be related to stress hormones? It's all connected and when one aspect becomes imbalanced it can have an impact on the others. I'm glad you have joined the forum and started looking into what might be contributing to your issues. I think you are on the right track and you probably are just at a place where it's time to start fine tuning things a bit. I would definitely stop anything you feel is not working, continue to study Peat's work and implement his ideas in a way that works for where your currently at in your life and healing. Please keep us updated on how you are coming along!

 

[north]

Never had thyroid issues but your pulse was 40 a few years ago?
TSH 2.5.
Could be a slight thyroid issue.
It might have been the liquids? Stomach and digestion affect the hormones and body a lot
Did you eat liver, meat & seafood? Cottage cheese is not very solid either.

Heat regulation, both hot and warm, is related to thyroid. In some conditions, cells generate more heat than atp.
Myself, i have almost always cold hands/feet, but strangely every night at around 10pm the get very warm. I always (until now) slept with my feet outside my blanket caus i felt they are so hot. I always wondered why. This has changed recently since i learned more how to affect hormones by food and started eating sugar.

There is an adjustment curve. But since you tried 4 months, i guess you would have adjusted a bit by then, and since you still had issues and also regarding tsh 2.5 and low pulse and heat regulation stuff, i would guess thyroid function is not as good as it should be.

I am also at about 4months in now, and i still sometimes feel better, sometimes worse. Almost always its related to how much solid food i get (meat, seafood) and amount of liquid.

Sorry for the long post, but if i were you i would
read RPs thyroid articles if you havent (or again if you have :P )
raypeat.com/articles/articles/thyroid.shtml
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/hy ... dism.shtml
than read a lot of quotes and/or email advice from RP on functionalalps regarding thyroid.

 

[Maya]

Thanks, Blossom :)
I am taking even more time now to read as much as I can here and as much work of RP as possible.

Prototypejohn - when I meant I never had issues ... I was dieting a lot, that is true. And at one point my hear rate really was 40. I went to a doctor, he did all the tests on me (on a bike, measuring my breath, blood tests... & ...), he said he has never seen anything like it... He said my body is in such an amazing shape, he has no idea where all the heat comes from and why I feel the way I feel and couldn't lose weight. (I'm talking about same 15 pounds) But my TSH was never very high. Even when I was taking Naturethroid I felt no different, my TSH went to 0.19, but I still felt the same.

When I freedive, it is amazing how much longer I can stay down if I'm thinner. I have no explanation for it. And I know it sounds weird...but when I was at my lowest (110), I could stay under for 4-5 minutes without even thinking.. I would forget I was under water. With more weight, I can do much less.

I did eat some liver (I was adding vit A topically), I ate meat regularly. I agree, cottage cheese wasn't the best choice, but I was so hot, I couldn't stand warm food.

Sleeping with feet out - in Chinese medicine they say it's overactive tripple heater - which means overburdain digestion... I had that sometime, but when I start eating according to chinese medicine, I didn't feel the heat when going to bed.

My biggest problem with this heat is during the day, when the sun is out. I even wanted to go to some regression or something...I'm not sure about past lives, but seriously - I was wondering why I hate heat so much...maybe I died in some fire or something in my past life

The only summer I felt OK, when I was at my lowest weight (110) - but there I only stayed few weeks (it was 10 years ago)

So, the reason I wanna lose some weight now (must be around 143) is to feel lighter, cooler and ...of course, happier in my skin. I am too heavy to even do a lot of sports. I love running (NOT for sport or weightloss, but just to get rid of some energy -if I do some sport in the morning, I can bare heat much easier during the day) and be agile.

Anyway, I will keep looking, reading and trying to feel what is right for my body. I appreciate everybody's input and I applaude everybody up here for the courage to seek the truth... :)

Oh, Prototypejohn (I will check your other posts) - do you feel very different eating fruit or solid foods (meat/seafood...)? I really really don't have a taste for seafood anymore...It's weird. When I was on RP foods, I couldn't even taste eggs...meat - I kind of pushed myself to have it... all I wanted was cheese, milk and dry fruit.
But seafood - just a thought I would have to have some fish (that I use to like!) ... feels a little repulsive... Weird!

 

[tca300]

Sound like Dairy issues to me.