6 grains of Thiroyd..still low pulse

[octaviankid]

So I've been taking up to 6grains the past week and my pulse rate is till in the low 70s and sometimes 60s. I started at the normal 1/2 grain and slowly increased by 1/2-1grain every 2wks. I feel fine on 6grains w/ no palpitations or sweating or anything. I know i'm supposed to increase my dose until i reach my target pulse rate..but 6grains seems like a ton of thyroid for a 24yr old fit/healthy male. Hands are sill a little orange though... What are some other ways I can increase my pulse rate w/o increase thyroid? I mean, I"m fine with increasing but I just think I must be doing something wrong lol. I follow a pretty Peatarded diet lots of sugar, gelatin (100-150g of overall protein/day) low PUFA etc.

What things have helped you increase your pulse rate?
Thanks!

 

[visionofstrength]

Your heart may beat slower when you are under a stress of some kind. The most common stress that limits your metabolism and heartbeat is a shortage of sugar. RP tells of first noticing some 35 years ago that his heartbeat became irregular when he took t3 without also having sugar.

It's also possible that you have endotoxemia from any of a number of anti-thyroid foods that you may be eating, or from a lack of certain of the amino acids (those found most abundantly in milk).

A few things:
Can you do a cronometer.com entry for everything that you eat (it's free)?
Can you check your body temperature when waking? It's a second indicator of metabolism along with pulse.
What is your height? Taller people may have hearts with bigger stroke volumes, which means their hearts can beat less often, but pump the same amount of blood.

 

[Jennifer]

Hmm...your hands are a little orange, octaviankid?

How are your temps and B12 and cholesterol levels? I wonder if stored carotene in you is blocking steroid synthesis.

You may have come across this Ray quote from an email exchange since you mentioned the orange hands. I know in it he's referring to temps not rising with thyroid supplementation and not pulse, but I imagine the same explanation could apply to pulse too...

"B12 is needed when carotene is high. B12 helps the carotene convert to vitamin A.
If your cholesterol is above 200, and the thyroid supplements didn't warm you up, it's possible that something is interfering with your steroid synthesis, which might be a deficiency of something like vitamin A, or interference from something like iron or carotene. Have you tried a supplement of pregnenolone or DHEA? Were any other hormones, such as prolactin, measured? If you are taking the aspirin regularly, you should make sure to get vitamin K, from kale, liver, or a supplement. Anemia, like cold feet, is a common sign of low thyroid function." -Ray Peat

 

[octaviankid]

Your heart may beat slower when you are under a stress of some kind. The most common stress that limits your metabolism and heartbeat is a shortage of sugar. RP tells of first noticing some 35 years ago that his heartbeat became irregular when he took t3 without also having sugar.

It's also possible that you have endotoxemia from any of a number of anti-thyroid foods that you may be eating, or from a lack of certain of the amino acids (those found most abundantly in milk).

A few things:
Can you do a cronometer.com entry for everything that you eat (it's free)?
Can you check your body temperature when waking? It's a second indicator of metabolism along with pulse.
What is your height? Taller people may have hearts with bigger stroke volumes, which means their hearts can beat less often, but pump the same amount of blood.

I do cronometer, yes. Yesterday i ate: milk, orange juice, honey, oysters, carrots, dates, coconut oil, gelatin. 150protein 450g carbs and 60g fat. Morning body temp was this morning 97.2. I'm 5'11" so maybe.

Thanks!

Hmm...your hands are a little orange, octaviankid?

How are your temps and B12 and cholesterol levels? I wonder if stored carotene in you is blocking steroid synthesis.

You may have come across this Ray quote from an email exchange since you mentioned the orange hands. I know in it he's referring to temps not rising with thyroid supplementation and not pulse, but I imagine the same explanation could apply to pulse too...

"B12 is needed when carotene is high. B12 helps the carotene convert to vitamin A.
If your cholesterol is above 200, and the thyroid supplements didn't warm you up, it's possible that something is interfering with your steroid synthesis, which might be a deficiency of something like vitamin A, or interference from something like iron or carotene. Have you tried a supplement of pregnenolone or DHEA? Were any other hormones, such as prolactin, measured? If you are taking the aspirin regularly, you should make sure to get vitamin K, from kale, liver, or a supplement. Anemia, like cold feet, is a common sign of low thyroid function." -Ray Peat

Interesting. My Cholesterol was 203 and prolactin was 13 (high). I've tried supplement with progesterone cream, but haven't tried DHEA. I rarely take aspirin, but I eat liver. My feet and hands have definitely warmed up since Peating...just the pulse rate is low

Thanks!

 

[visionofstrength]

[I do cronometer, yes. Yesterday i ate: milk, orange juice, honey, oysters, carrots, dates, coconut oil, gelatin. 150protein 450g carbs and 60g fat. Morning body temp was this morning 97.2. My Cholesterol was 203 and prolactin was 13 (high).

You may be hypothyroid if your morning temp is less than 97.8, hence the slow pulse as you suspected, and the prolactin tells us that the hypothryoidisim may be accompanied by, or perhaps caused by stress of some sort.

There's no quick pill you can take for stress and hypothyroidism. But if you try Getting Ripped with Dr. Ray Peat you should be much better. It's pretty simple and enjoyable. Hope to see you over there!

 

[octaviankid]

So some good news. I came across an article where Danny Roddy said sugar is good for those with low pulse rates and body temps. I increased sugar intake to 700-1000g from fruit and potatoes (serious lol) Pulse rate stayed in mid to high 80s all day!

 

[visionofstrength]

... I increased sugar intake to 700-1000g from fruit and potatoes (serious lol) Pulse rate stayed in mid to high 80s all day!

Glad you've increased sugar. That's part of the formula for Getting Ripped. But you can have a high pulse rate as a result of the increased exertion of digestion. To resolve both the hypothyroidism and the stress, you may need waking temperature to increase, too, and prolactin to decrease.

Please take a look at the Getting Ripped thread, if you haven't already. It tries to help you understand hypothyroidism and stress -- getting ripped is just a pleasant side effect. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

 

[ilovethesea]

I started at the normal 1/2 grain and slowly increased by 1/2-1grain every 2wks. I feel fine on 6grains w/ no palpitations or sweating or anything. I know i'm supposed to increase my dose until i reach my target pulse rate..but 6grains seems like a ton of thyroid for a 24yr old fit/healthy male.

Why were you increasing every 2 weeks? You're meant to increase by 1 grain (max) every 2 months. It takes the T4 that long to build up in tissues. You may be on too high of a dose now because you increased way too quickly... I think this can be dangerous. Too much T4 is anti-thyroid and that may be the cause of the ongoing hypo symptoms.

I would consider lowering the dose somewhat, and then staying steady on that for a full 2 months before making changes.

 

[visionofstrength]

I started at the normal 1/2 grain and slowly increased by 1/2-1grain every 2wks. ...

Why were you increasing every 2 weeks? You're meant to increase by 1 grain (max) every 2 months. It takes the T4 that long to build up in tissues. You may be on too high of a dose now because you increased way too quickly... I think this can be dangerous. Too much T4 is anti-thyroid and that may be the cause of the ongoing hypo symptoms.

I would consider lowering the dose somewhat, and then staying steady on that for a full 2 months before making changes.

ils, can you please help me to find a Peat cite for increasing 1 grain (max) every 2 months?

I see here that Broda Barnes may have said, about an NDT like okid's Thiroyd, to start with 2 grains for an adult, and wait two months before increasing?

And I see this, where Peat seems to say that the amount of t4/t3 we need is dependent on our relative sensitivity to thyroid hormone:

Once we accept Warburg’s thesis, that damaged respiration is the prime cause of cancer, the therapeutic use of thyroid in cancer seems obvious. Aging and estrogen-dominance are other states in which cells seem to be relatively insensitive to thyroid hormones. (Unsaturated fats are involved in resistance to thyroid, and promote the incidence of cancer in a variety of ways.) If the liver is a main site of T4′s conversion to T3, cancer patients may require very large doses of thyroid hormone, or else direct use of T3 (possibly in large doses), since the liver is so likely to be inefficient. Incidentally, thyroid’s ability to improve digestion and peristalsis is important for liver function; endotoxin absorbed from the intestine can be a serious burden to the liver, and it is known to cause a large increase in the blood estrogen level.

Thanks!