5mg Escitalopram/lexapro Effectively Cured My Anxiety

[aguineapig]

This study seemed to show that small doses of ssri raised Allo before it even began affecting serotonergic function. They also co administered PCPa with them and still showed similar effect, more or less ruling serotonin out as the therapeutic factor. This study is so interesting I keep it book marked on my phone to show people at parties

SSRIs act as selective brain steroidogenic stimulants (SBSSs) at low doses that are inactive on 5-HT reuptake

 

[metabolizm]

This study seemed to show that small doses of ssri raised Allo before it even began affecting serotonergic function. They also co administered PCPa with them and still showed similar effect, more or less ruling serotonin out as the therapeutic factor. This study is so interesting I keep it book marked on my phone to show people at parties

SSRIs act as selective brain steroidogenic stimulants (SBSSs) at low doses that are inactive on 5-HT reuptake

interesting, thanks for posting that.

 

[aguineapig]

I'm half curious if small doses of ssri with concurrent dosing of cypro or zofran would yield interesting results.

If course my first reaction is to eschew ssri's, but I have tried an awful lot of things and still am not happy with where I am at. If cypro or zofran or Progesterone alleviated my symptoms adequately, I would say, great! As I did for 4 years or so. But something definitely switched, and everything I leaned on before for years suddenly worsened my symptoms instead of ameliorate them.

We shall see. Next step is to find a competent therapist I can boss around a bit (or maybe an incompetent one?) My propranolol should get me through but I'll need to figure something else out eventually.

 

[JudiBlueHen]

From personal experience, I have had nothing but trouble with SSRI's at prescribed starting dosages. I have maybe 2 days of increased energy and euphoria and then become extremely irritable and cannot stop clenching my teeth. This was several SSRI's tried many years ago for persistent depression. More recently, I've been told I am probably bipolar II (showing mania only when triggered by SSRIs at a normal starting dose). After studying my genetics and my sister and child's genetics, I have learned that we are "slow metabolizers of CYP3A4" (having a *22 allele), which is responsible for the metabolism of about 50% of ALL pharmaceuticals. That means that the meds build up in the system as they cannot be metabolized at normal rates (increased Area under Curve) and so side effects show up on dosages considered low by standard algorithms. Which explains why I take children's dosages of cold meds when needed.
So to your point, I have never tried 1/4 to 1/2 of the lowest normal dose of SSRI/SRNIs but I would be tempted.
Regarding benzodiazepines, I find them to be very safe IF you do not increase dosage above the minimum needed to manage anxiety. I have taken them for many years, at a very low dose. I don't understand why they are regulated more tightly than other psychotropic medications.

 

[metabolizm]

@ReSTART how are you getting on now? Is your anxiety still reduced?

 

[Mito]

The Role of Allopregnanolone in Depressive-Like Behaviors: Focus on Neurotrophic Proteins

Abstract
Allopregnanolone (3α,5α-tetrahydroprogesterone; pharmaceutical formulation: brexanolone) is a neurosteroid that has recently been approved for the treatment of postpartum depression, promising to fill part of a long-lasting gap in the effectiveness of pharmacotherapies for depressive disorders. In this review, we explore the experimental research that characterized the antidepressant-like effects of allopregnanolone, with a particular focus on the neurotrophic adaptations induced by this neurosteroid in preclinical studies. We demonstrate that there is a consistent decrease in allopregnanolone levels in limbic brain areas in rodents submitted to stress-induced models of depression, such as social isolation and chronic unpredictable stress. Further, both the drug-induced upregulation of allopregnanolone or its direct administration reduce depressive-like behaviors in models such as the forced swim test. The main drugs of interest that upregulate allopregnanolone levels are selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), which present the neurosteroidogenic property even in lower, non-SSRI doses. Finally, we explore how these antidepressant-like behaviors are related to neurogenesis, particularly in the hippocampus. The protagonist in this mechanism is likely the brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BFNF), which is decreased in animal models of depression and may be restored by the normalization of allopregnanolone levels. The role of an interaction between GABA and the neurotrophic mechanisms needs to be further investigated.

The Role of Allopregnanolone in Depressive-Like Behaviors: Focus on Neurotrophic Proteins - PubMed

 

[metabolizm]

The Role of Allopregnanolone in Depressive-Like Behaviors: Focus on Neurotrophic Proteins

Abstract
Allopregnanolone (3α,5α-tetrahydroprogesterone; pharmaceutical formulation: brexanolone) is a neurosteroid that has recently been approved for the treatment of postpartum depression, promising to fill part of a long-lasting gap in the effectiveness of pharmacotherapies for depressive disorders. In this review, we explore the experimental research that characterized the antidepressant-like effects of allopregnanolone, with a particular focus on the neurotrophic adaptations induced by this neurosteroid in preclinical studies. We demonstrate that there is a consistent decrease in allopregnanolone levels in limbic brain areas in rodents submitted to stress-induced models of depression, such as social isolation and chronic unpredictable stress. Further, both the drug-induced upregulation of allopregnanolone or its direct administration reduce depressive-like behaviors in models such as the forced swim test. The main drugs of interest that upregulate allopregnanolone levels are selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), which present the neurosteroidogenic property even in lower, non-SSRI doses. Finally, we explore how these antidepressant-like behaviors are related to neurogenesis, particularly in the hippocampus. The protagonist in this mechanism is likely the brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BFNF), which is decreased in animal models of depression and may be restored by the normalization of allopregnanolone levels. The role of an interaction between GABA and the neurotrophic mechanisms needs to be further investigated.

The Role of Allopregnanolone in Depressive-Like Behaviors: Focus on Neurotrophic Proteins - PubMed

It's a pity that pregnenalone supplementation doesn't seem to have quite the same effect as SSRI, from what I've heard, but I suppose SSRI in lower doses are affecting dopamine, cortisol, etc, and possibly even antagonising serotonin, funnily enough.

 

[metabolizm]

This study seemed to show that small doses of ssri raised Allo before it even began affecting serotonergic function. They also co administered PCPa with them and still showed similar effect, more or less ruling serotonin out as the therapeutic factor. This study is so interesting I keep it book marked on my phone to show people at parties

SSRIs act as selective brain steroidogenic stimulants (SBSSs) at low doses that are inactive on 5-HT reuptake

More studies like that and it'll soon become a Peat-approved substance!

I've started taking Celexa at 5mg, a subclinical dose. Definitely noticed side effects after the first 5 days - jaw clenching, sweat, increased appetite, increased anxiety even. Dread to think what jumping straight into 20mg, as my doctor suggested, would have felt like.

It'll be interesting to find out whether the low dose is indeed sufficient to dispose of the anxiety. Will report back.

 

[metabolizm]

I did use it. It was effective. But after quiting anxiety returned. Only used it for 6 months. Initially anxiety is worse when you quit just like the first week when you start them. Then it just goes back to baseline how you where previous to using ssri. I think if you’re gonna use it long term i would advice experiment with different dosages. Imo lower doses for me at least was just as effective but with less side effects. Less is more. I took half of the lowest dose and that worked really well when i used it even though the doctor said that it is not an active dose. And that the lowest dose is the lowest active dose. He was totally wrong and I think most doctors tend to overdose ssri.

This is really interesting, I'm testing this out just now with a subclinical dose of Citalopram (Celexa) for persistent anxiety and panic. Only six days in but side effects are obvious, even at such a low dose.

 

[aguineapig]

You should be able to combine with a receptor antagonist to get ameliorate the Serotonergic symptoms while leaving the allopregnenolone boost effect intact.

 

[ReSTART]

Not taking anymore.
While it was effective for anxiety, the low energy and not caring about anything side effects were bad, as to be expected from an SSRI.

 

[dukesbobby777]

From personal experience, I have had nothing but trouble with SSRI's at prescribed starting dosages. I have maybe 2 days of increased energy and euphoria and then become extremely irritable and cannot stop clenching my teeth. This was several SSRI's tried many years ago for persistent depression. More recently, I've been told I am probably bipolar II (showing mania only when triggered by SSRIs at a normal starting dose). After studying my genetics and my sister and child's genetics, I have learned that we are "slow metabolizers of CYP3A4" (having a *22 allele), which is responsible for the metabolism of about 50% of ALL pharmaceuticals. That means that the meds build up in the system as they cannot be metabolized at normal rates (increased Area under Curve) and so side effects show up on dosages considered low by standard algorithms. Which explains why I take children's dosages of cold meds when needed.
So to your point, I have never tried 1/4 to 1/2 of the lowest normal dose of SSRI/SRNIs but I would be tempted.
Regarding benzodiazepines, I find them to be very safe IF you do not increase dosage above the minimum needed to manage anxiety. I have taken them for many years, at a very low dose. I don't understand why they are regulated more tightly than other psychotropic medications.

I once got the same euphoric effects from SSRIs years ago and looking back, like yours, this was most definitely not a stereotypical reaction that patients generally speak of when taking SSRIs. The euphoria was very enjoyable, but I had feelings of intense anxiety and agitation that were also constantly present, forcing me to eventually give them up. But those euphoric reactions always occurred each time I would take them.

I’ve never been diagnosed as bipolar, but my reaction to St John’s Wort on various extracts over the years also resulted in strange reactions (extreme mood elation, but also with feeling quick to anger, and swinging to low moods).

I was never diagnosed with bipolar disorder but I had traits that aligned with it. Depressive moods, anxiety and various episodes of hyper-excitability.

It’s very interesting that since being a Peat head (for a few years now), I must have changed my baseline estrogen/serotonin (the mediators of stress, instability, hyper-excitability), because recently I thought I would try SSRIs again as an experiment. Instead of the previous euphoric effects I would once get from them, I now get the same stereotypical reactions that most users usually report. Feelings of apathy and not caring about anything. Feelings of not wanting to do anything. Even feelings of anger. All the things that you would associate with what Peat says, from his articles on serotonin, and how it relates to learned helplessness. And this was from taking sertraline, which is supposed to be one of the more energising SSRIs.

I am not saying that I have improved metabolically over the past few years, but like most here, my focus has been increasing thyroid through PUFA restriction, calcium intake, adequate protein intake, adequate carbohydrate intake and trying to limit/lower stress as best I can. Perhaps like most mental illnesses, which manifest in various ways, bipolar might also be that of a metabolic disorder.