5α-DHP - Liquid 5α-Dihydroprogesterone For Lab/R&D

[MMitchell08]

@haidut sorry if this isn’t the best place to ask the question, but I couldn’t send you a message. Not sure if you have an email. But my rat was suffering from PFS and decided to use this about 4 months into his recovery process. The product worked well, but has now seemed to cause severe sensitivity to either an increase in DHT or the Androgen Receptors increased. The rat now has additional new problems to this and was wondering what could help balance this out without inhibiting the 5A-R. Again, happy to take offline, via email and explain more. Just need some help as the last 3 months have been terrible.

 

[Hiwatt]

Finesteride & 5α-Dihydroprogesterone Supplement from IdeaLabs simultaneously or is this completely insane?

Am I crazy to think that I can suppress the MPB DHT 5-AR but gain the myriad of benefits of the 5α-Dihydroprogesterone supplement in synergy? As of this point I have stabilized hair loss/reverse miniaturized hair caliber using an exhaustive regimen of Finesteride, Minoxidil, Copper Peptides, LLLT and selected supplements that synergize with the Peat philosophy including Tyromax and Vitamin E, Vitamin D, Vitamin A, Vitamin K, Vitamin B complex et. al. in ratios aforementioned in areas of this forum.

For inflammation/calcification and hair loss I have also added the amino acid taurine, low dose aspirin, and anti-inflammatory pairs of Naringenin/Apigenin > Soy Isofavones/Green Tea Extract > Gelatin.

**(I am 48 year old male) & I have discontinued SNRI medication and seen a huge benefit in mood, health and skin/hair condition. I had 2 Follicular Unit Transplants and now have a decently full head of hair (Norwood 2 from Norwood 5), increased my metabolism, normalized body fat and appetite, stabilized mood, getting better sleep, ended GERD through the Peat friendly diet, stabilized blood glucose and blood pressure. Many of the health benefits are from information on this forum. :)

I just ask the crazy question because I am convinced depression, anxiety, hair loss, weight gain, slow metabolism, elevated stress hormones, insulin resistance, elevated blood pressure, skin irritation, sleep, scalp fibrosis and calcification et. al. are interwoven through hormone and nutritional imbalances.

I also believe suppression of DHT with finesteride through 5-AR is a component that carries one positive to preventing hair loss but also many negatives affecting the chain. I may be out of my mind to think I can isolate the effective component of finesteride and counteract the plethora of negatives simultaneously.

I appreciate any comments and you can call me crazy if you want - I wont feel bad. Thank you everyone for all this valuable information.

 

[RobertJM]

The mental health of my rabbit improves a lot on this compound. Maybe I should just put him on it continuously. Life is too short. I've read this thread at least twice since it was released. Time to read it again. I also notice that others seem to respond more positively to my rabbit when he is on it. There are other pleasant benefits as well such as an improvement in skin, and it may make him look more trim, but not sure on this yet for certain.

 

[haidut]

The mental health of my rabbit improves a lot on this compound. Maybe I should just put him on it continuously. Life is too short. I've read this thread at least twice since it was released. Time to read it again. I also notice that others seem to respond more positively to my rabbit when he is on it. There are other pleasant benefits as well such as an improvement in skin, and it may make him look more trim, but not sure on this yet for certain.

Great, thanks for the feedback! How much is used?

 

[Momado965]

The Pansterone + androsterone combo was the most potent in terms of androgenic/anabolic response. But the intense dreams are too much for me to handle and I only take it during the day for that reason. I did take 5a-DHP for a few weeks and the anti-estrogen and anti-prolactin effects were visible even within the first 1-2 days. Muscles got harder and mood improved even when taking only 5a-DHP. I thin the low dose is also good (5mg-6mg) for prolactin. The difference between the low dose and the high one was more pronounced for estrogen.

Would you say steroids such DHT and possibly others are responsible for masculine characteristics such as broad shoulders, brow ridge, big forehead, big/sharp jaw etc?

 

[haidut]

Would you say steroids such DHT and possibly others are responsible for masculine characteristics such as broad shoulders, brow ridge, big forehead, big/sharp jaw etc?

It is a combination of androgens - T is responsible for masculinization earlier in life and after that DHT/androsterone are the ones most involved with the phenotype you describe. A big drop in DHT can leave men muscular but a bit...effeminate in look and behavior. Finasteride is used in animal studies to cause ambiguous sexual preferences (bisexuality) and it has been shown that it is due to the drop in DHT it causes.

 

[Vinero]

It is a combination of androgens - T is responsible for masculinization earlier in life and after that DHT/androsterone are the ones most involved with the phenotype you describe. A big drop in DHT can leave men muscular but a bit...effeminate in look and behavior. Finasteride is used in animal studies to cause ambiguous sexual preferences (bisexuality) and it has been shown that it is due to the drop in DHT it causes.

The men who have High Testosterone but no DHT because of a 5a-reductase deficiency are a good example.
It was on one of Danny Roddys podcasts, pseudohermaphrodites they are called or something.
They are muscular because of high Testosterone, but had some problems because they lacked DHT.

 

[Momado965]

It is a combination of androgens - T is responsible for masculinization earlier in life and after that DHT/androsterone are the ones most involved with the phenotype you describe. A big drop in DHT can leave men muscular but a bit...effeminate in look and behavior. Finasteride is used in animal studies to cause ambiguous sexual preferences (bisexuality) and it has been shown that it is due to the drop in DHT it causes.

You mean how much T the fetus was exposed to in the womb and then Adro and DHT in puberty? Also, It would be fascinating if a gay male to experimented with that. I hope someone on forum did it. Seems the psychological complex in terms of shame will be difficult post hormone treatment.

 

[Momado965]

The men who have High Testosterone but no DHT because of a 5a-reductase deficiency are a good example.
It was on one of Danny Roddys podcasts, pseudohermaphrodites they are called or something.
They are muscular because of high Testosterone, but had some problems because they lacked DHT.

I thought those grew up to be female.

 

[Vinero]

I thought those grew up to be female.

Exactly, they were like muscular females.
They lacked male characteristics except a muscular body and face.

 

[Wagner83]

It is a combination of androgens - T is responsible for masculinization earlier in life and after that DHT/androsterone are the ones most involved with the phenotype you describe. A big drop in DHT can leave men muscular but a bit...effeminate in look and behavior. Finasteride is used in animal studies to cause ambiguous sexual preferences (bisexuality) and it has been shown that it is due to the drop in DHT it causes.

A Role For 5alpha-reductase Activity In The Development Of Male Homosexuality?
See the first two quotes/studies in particular for different information.

 

[Owen B]

Lower dose pregnenolone may raise DHEA, which would synergize nicely with 5a-DHP. I think adding some pregnenolone and/or DHEA may be synergistic. The studies I have seen showed the bets effect from combining a 5-AR (non-aromatizable) steroid like DHT or 5a-DHP with a non-saturated one (aromatizable) like DHEA and T. Peat has also recommended people add DHEA to any steroid they asked him about. Often he gets questions about T /DHT supplementation and aside from recommending a lower dose than most people are used to hearing from their doctors, he almost always mentions adding DHEA and/or pregnenolone to the mix. Pregnenolone may even potentiate the effects of 5a-DHP and any androgens that it gets converted to. The original thread on Pansterone has a study from Hans Selye that said the same thing - pregnenolone can partially substitute for any steroid and can potentiate the effects of any steroid it is used with while also protecting from their side effects. So, maybe 10mg pregnenolone with each dose of 5a-DHP would be something interesting to try. Or 5mg DHEA with every dose of 5a-DHP. Or just a dose of Pansterone with the dose of 5a-DHP.

If you agree that people should, as Peat suggests here in this post, add DHEA to any steroid they're taking, have you considered offering a DHEA product of your own?

There are topical DHEA creams out there but they're probably not that good. You'd be the only one with a reliable, absorbable product.

It would give people more flexibility with their experiments.

 

[haidut]

You mean how much T the fetus was exposed to in the womb and then Adro and DHT in puberty? Also, It would be fascinating if a gay male to experimented with that. I hope someone on forum did it. Seems the psychological complex in terms of shame will be difficult post hormone treatment.

Somebody already did. You can search on the forum for one user's post who claimed using androsterone changed his sexual preference from homo to hetero. The androsterone/etiochollanolone ratio has been shown to be predictive of sexual orientation. That ratio indicates the systemic (tissue) balance of strong androgens like DHT to weaker/aromatizable ones like T. As the study showed, a ratio below one suggests homosexuality and above one heterosexuality. Of course, other factors are at play as well but hormones are definitely involved in sexual preferences.

 

[haidut]

If you agree that people should, as Peat suggests here in this post, add DHEA to any steroid they're taking, have you considered offering a DHEA product of your own?

There are topical DHEA creams out there but they're probably not that good. You'd be the only one with a reliable, absorbable product.

It would give people more flexibility with their experiments.

What would DHEA on its own achieve that Pansterone could not?

 

[KyleKingsly]

Has anyone tried 5a-DHP topically/transdermally, rather than orally/sublingually? I had huge hopes for this stuff but it doesn't really seem to be doing much so far.

Today I tried putting some drops on my face and forearms, but I don't think I'm feeling much from that either.

 

[Terma]

Has anyone tried 5a-DHP topically/transdermally, rather than orally/sublingually? I had huge hopes for this stuff but it doesn't really seem to be doing much so far.

Today I tried putting some drops on my face and forearms, but I don't think I'm feeling much from that either.

You're probably wasting it topically.

I can tell you I had a few problems with my last batches of this stuff. If you'd had it laying around for awhile you have to submerge it in hot water for an hour and shake it for 15 mins, otherwise the uneven concentration will ruin it.

In addition, after doing that, I have to try to hold it under the tongue for at least 15 minutes.

Based on reasoning from other forums, there is some rationale for the idea that some supplements don't actually absorb under the tongue much but rather, it's the slow drip into the stomach that produces the effect.

I do NOT know if that is the case for this particular hormone, but based on my personal experience it seems plausible the slow drip is what makes it work.

So yeah, this is a huge pain in the ****, and I end up just taking phenibut half the time instead. Though, that's a separate topic, and it can be worth looking into a GABAA + GABAB combo.

 

[KyleKingsly]

You're probably wasting it topically.

I can tell you I had a few problems with my last batches of this stuff. If you'd had it laying around for awhile you have to submerge it in hot water for an hour and shake it for 15 mins, otherwise the uneven concentration will ruin it.

In addition, after doing that, I have to try to hold it under the tongue for at least 15 minutes.

Based on reasoning from other forums, there is some rationale for the idea that some supplements don't actually absorb under the tongue much but rather, it's the slow drip into the stomach that produces the effect.

I do NOT know if that is the case for this particular hormone, but based on my personal experience it seems plausible the slow drip is what makes it work.

So yeah, this is a huge pain in the ****, and I end up just taking phenibut half the time instead. Though, that's a separate topic, and it can be worth looking into a GABAA + GABAB combo.

Thanks so much for the response, I came to that same conclusion after not feeling much with it last night. The thing I'm confused about is why stuff like Pansterone, Kuinone, and Energin work great topically but this stuff and Gonadin don't seem to? What's responsible for the different absorption ROAs?

I've been trying sublingual with this stuff too, but I am worried that a lot more is going to be absorbed that way and so the recommended 5-6 drops oral dose is going to turn into the equivalent of 10+ drops. Maybe @haidut can comment on the benefits/risks of that route?

And yeah I love me some Phenibut, I take that almost without fail twice a week every week on the weekends. It's interesting that you think this stuff is comparable to the powerful Phenibut, as I haven't noticed that much from 5a-DHP so far at all, disappointingly.

By the way, I'd really love to hear what you recommend for the GABA A + B combo you mentioned! Sounds good like a good one to me - I'm guessing you'd say Phenibut for GABA B right?

 

[Terma]

Sorry I was thinking about something else about the GABAB agonism (sleep).

Phenibut is a shitty GABAB agonist, I don't recommend it in the higher doses that do that.

However low doses of phenibut are excellent calcium channel blocker (a la gabapentin or lyrica) and will help in a different way. Less than 500mg a day or so. Nothing works quite like it, not glycine or taurine, nothing. It's sort of like caffeine, in that, it always works, except for the tolerance and withdrawal issue.

When my stupid retarded rat takes 5a-DHP it's either 5mg or 15mg oral ("sublingual").

5a-DHP is nowhere near as strong as phenibut but it's a lot safer.

Yes the number of substances that properly absorb topically are small. The Energin topical effect is mainly the niacinamide, which absorbs really well topically.

 

[KyleKingsly]

Sorry I was thinking about something else about the GABAB agonism (sleep).

Phenibut is a shitty GABAB agonist, I don't recommend it in the higher doses that do that.

However low doses of phenibut are excellent calcium channel blocker (a la gabapentin or lyrica) and will help in a different way. Less than 500mg a day or so. Nothing works quite like it, not glycine or taurine, nothing. It's sort of like caffeine, in that, it always works, except for the tolerance and withdrawal issue.

When my stupid retarded rat takes 5a-DHP it's either 5mg or 15mg oral ("sublingual").

5a-DHP is nowhere near as strong as phenibut but it's a lot safer.

Yes the number of substances that properly absorb topically are small. The Energin topical effect is mainly the niacinamide, which absorbs really well topically.

So would you say it's more effective to buy the B vitamins as powder or capsules more cheaply, and take them orally in the traditional manner for best effects? I don't want just niacinamide, and I want the effects of all of them. Especially Vitamin B6 p5p for dopamine boosting and prolactin suppression.

From what I've heard, people are saying that Energin lasts longer than typical oral B vitamins do (as @haidut told me), and they're absorbed better too.

 

[Terma]

Well the only B vitamin I bother to do topical is niacinamide. The others either oral or sublingual.