aarfai

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Can this applied to the testicles with DHEA/Preg/Vitamin K? If so what doses?
 
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haidut

haidut

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Can this applied to the testicles with DHEA/Preg/Vitamin K? If so what doses?

I am not aware of any study that has researched this, but like any other steroid it can be applied topically to any area with skin on it.
 

managing

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So, this might be a silly question, but why don't I see it on your website for sale?
 

Dhair

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@haidut, would this be any good for hair loss? this might be better than DHT for me given the problems I've had with the chemotherapy drugs I've taken... what do you think ?
 
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haidut

haidut

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@haidut, would this be any good for hair loss? this might be better than DHT for me given the problems I've had with the chemotherapy drugs I've taken... what do you think ?

I don't think it has been studies for loss of hair. It does have progesterone effects, albeit slightly weaker than progesterone if you look strictly at receptor binding profile.
 
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Dhair

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I don't think it has been studies for loss of hair. It does have progesterone effects, albeit slightly weaker than progesterone if you look strictly at receptor binding profile. I would use in lower doses first to see if there is any undesirable side effects and only then apply to direct problem area like thinning hair. Of course, always ask a doctor before using any supplement/steroid.
How do you personally use these steroids? Like how do you cycle them or try them out? have you had any serious lasting negative side effects from any of the products that you offer?
 
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haidut

haidut

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How do you personally use these steroids? Like how do you cycle them or try them out? have you had any serious lasting negative side effects from any of the products that you offer?

When I decide to use the steroids regularly, I try to take a week off every 8 weeks or so. Even with pregnenolone and DHEA. The Pansterone, StressNon, androsterone, and 11-keto DHT I mostly use topically but oral Pansterone also seems to work quite well for me. I sometimes get side effects when I use the DMSO-based supplements on the same skin spot for more than a week - i.e. redness, itching, and scaling. These are the officially noted possible local side effects of DMSO, it's even on its Wikipedia page. So, I simply apply to another spot. The skin on my shoulders seems to be less prone to such side effects. Not sure why.
I have not had any systemic side effects from any of our supplements, just local skin irritation. What I have had is pregnenolone and progesterone raising serum progesterone above the upper limit of the normal range and the doctor who saw this freaked out as progesterone should not be that high in males (at least according to the doctors). I think it was StressNon and Progestene that did that when used at the full daily doses. Upon discounting for a week and retesting serum progesterone returned to "normal" and the doctor calmed down.
Sometimes, taking Pansterone or androsterone without enough food gives me cold extremities very similar to what thyroid and caffeine do if I take them the same way. I have not had this happen when well fed.
But, everybody is different. If somebody thinks the supplements are causing side effects they should not be using them. And of course, always consult with a doctor before using any supplements and discuss with them side effects as well.
 

CheeseTitan

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Any idea when you'll have additional supplies of 5α-DHP in stock?

Your website says its sold out...
 
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haidut

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Any idea when you'll have additional supplies of 5α-DHP in stock?

Your website says its sold out...

It is back in stock, we just got a new batch.
 
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haidut

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So when someones takes progesterone, what does it convert into ?

Well, a number of things. The 3 pathways are basically - down the androstenedione pathway and thus to androgens/estrogens, down the cortisol/aldosterone pathway, and down the 5-AR pathway (which means 5a-DHP, allopregnanolone and then through backdoor pathways all the way down to androsterone and DHT).
 
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Constatine

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When I decide to use the steroids regularly, I try to take a week off every 8 weeks or so. Even with pregnenolone and DHEA. The Pansterone, StressNon, androsterone, and 11-keto DHT I mostly use topically but oral Pansterone also seems to work quite well for me. I sometimes get side effects when I use the DMSO-based supplements on the same skin spot for more than a week - i.e. redness, itching, and scaling. These are the officially noted possible local side effects of DMSO, it's even on its Wikipedia page. So, I simply apply to another spot. The skin on my shoulders seems to be less prone to such side effects. Not sure why.
I have not had any systemic side effects from any of our supplements, just local skin irritation. What I have had is pregnenolone and progesterone raising serum progesterone above the upper limit of the normal range and the doctor who saw this freaked out as progesterone should not be that high in males (at least according to the doctors). I think it was StressNon and Progestene that did that when used at the full daily doses. Upon discounting for a week and retesting serum progesterone returned to "normal" and the doctor calmed down.
Sometimes, taking Pansterone or androsterone without enough food gives me cold extremities very similar to what thyroid and caffeine do if I take them the same way. I have not had this happen when well fed.
But, everybody is different. If somebody thinks the supplements are causing side effects they should not be using them. And of course, always consult with a doctor before using any supplements and discuss with them side effects as well.
With what combo have you noticed the most positive effects and what effects were most apparent? Also have you used 5a-DHP long enough to see what effects it has on your body?
 
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haidut

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With what combo have you noticed the most positive effects and what effects were most apparent? Also have you used 5a-DHP long enough to see what effects it has on your body?

The Pansterone + androsterone combo was the most potent in terms of androgenic/anabolic response. But the intense dreams are too much for me to handle and I only take it during the day for that reason. I did take 5a-DHP for a few weeks and the anti-estrogen and anti-prolactin effects were visible even within the first 1-2 days. Muscles got harder and mood improved even when taking only 5a-DHP.
 
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A.R

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Well, a number of things. The 3 pathways are basically - down the DHEA pathway and thus to androgens/estrogens, down the cortisol/aldosterone pathway, and down the 5-AR pathway (which means 5a-DHP, allopregnanolone and then through backdoor pathways all the way down to androsterone and DHT).
Personally from my experience of progesterone is, if it's taken when the body is in a stressed state, then it converts down the 5-AR/5a-DHP pathway. I say this because my body seems to relax when I've used it, and it's actually quite noticeable (anti stress effects) almost immediately .

Which is all good news.
 
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haidut

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I would like to know this was well. I seem to bleed with almost anything even with high K2 dosages. Progest-E might be causing bleeding due to vitamin E, though.

It has been answered, look earlier in the thread.
 

toucan

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As many of you know by now, I have acquired an interest lately to research the connection between the process of saturation of various nutrients and steroids and the effects of this saturation on the properties of these substances. After doing some work on androgens such as androsterone and 11-keto DHT, I started researching the effects of various progestins / progestogens, especially metabolites of progesterone. As most people familiar with Peat know, progesterone occupies a rather prominent role in his writings due to its multitude of systemic beneficial effects such as opposition to estrogen, PUFA, aging, degeneration, infections, serotonin, prolactin, NO, etc. After reviewing the metabolic pathways of progesterone, especially in the brain, one metabolite immediately caught my eye. That metabolite was 5α-Dihydroprogesterone (5α-DHP).
5α-Dihydroprogesterone - Wikipedia

5α-DHP is formed from progesterone by the activity of the enzyme 5α-reductase (5-AR) - the same enzyme that converts T into DHT. I noticed that 5α-DHP levels rise sharply during pregnancy in most mammals (including humans) and in some species are the only progestogen as that species (horses) produces almost no regular progesterone. 5α-DHP is also the direct precursor to the neurosteroid allopregnanolone.
Allopregnanolone - Wikipedia

Allopregnanolone is the current darling of the pharma industry (since everything else failed) and is in clinical trials for almost every conceivable brain or mood condition including epilepsy, Alzheimer, Parkinson, TBI, MS, ALS, depression, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, PTSD, suicidal tendencies, etc. Those trials are being conducted with both bioidentical allopregnanolone and its bastardized synthetic cousin Ganaxolone.
Ganaxolone - Wikipedia

Early animal studies and subsequent human ones showed that it is progesterone metabolites formed by the activity of the enzyme 5-AR that are primarily responsible for the beneficial effects of progesterone in the brain and in so many conditions. Administration of a 5-AR inhibitor like finasteride reliably lowers levels of not only DHT but also of 5α-DHP and allopregnanolone. The administratios of a 5-AR inhibitor abolished almost all positive effects of progesterone in the brain. This suggests that it is the 5-AR metabolites of progesterone such as 5α-DHP and allopregnanolone that are primarily responsible for the benefits of progesterone in all these conditions. Reductions in brain allopregnanolone are widely recognized as the single most important factor in mental health (especially depression, suicide, and the infamous "brain fog"). Virtually all SSRI drugs that have shown some effectiveness raise levels of allopregannolone in the brain. However, in people who are under stress, have neurological damage, have endured treatment with finsateride, or are simply loaded with PUFA the enzyme 5-AR is downregulated both in levels and in activity. As such, simply supplementing with progesterone may not have the desired effects of raising allopregnanolone. This may be one of the reasons why progesterone seems to lose effectiveness as an anti-depressant in older people - i.e. they have much lower expression and activity of 5-AR compared to younger people. However, with the widespread PUFA assault even young people are showing signs of diminished neurological responsiveness to progesterone when administered as a supplement. One option would be to supplement allopregnanolone. However, allopregnanolone is not available OTC or by prescription in any country. In addition, due to the recent successful trials with both bioidentical and synthetic allopregnanolone derivatives, the future of allopregnanolone as a freely available chemical looks rather bleak. In all likelihood, one the FDA approved allopregnanolone or Ganaxolone for any condition, the company behind the trial will petition FDA to start regulating allopregnanolone as a drug. In addition, while allopregnanolone has a great track record as neurosteroid, it has no progesterone effect - i.e. it is not an agonist of the progesterone receptor. Agonism of the progesterone receptor has a multitude of other benefits including opposition to estrogen, prolactin, serotonin, NO and variety of other mediators tat serve to inhibit metabolism. Thus, ideally the substance to be supplemented with should have the properties of allopregnanolone (or easily convert into it) while also having the properties of progesterone through the progesterone receptor. The steroid 5α-DHP is exactly such substance, and for now it seems to not be subject to any clinical trials or legal threats. It is a direct precursor of allopregnanolone and as such should elevate allopregnanolone levels even in people with strongly downregulated 5-AR - i.e. sufferers of the so-called post-finasteride syndrome (PFS), older people or people under severe stress or PUFA loads. Just like progesterone 5α-DHP is capable of reducing estrogen receptor levels inside the cells and knock the estrogen out of the cells. It also inhibits prolactin release, just like progesterone. More importantly, it achieve these benefits in doses 2-3 times lower than progesterone. And last but not least, 5α-DHP is not a metabolic precursor to estrogen, cortisol, and aldosterone like regular progesterone is.
Furthermore, 5α-DHP (like other 5-AR derived steroids) can serve as raw material for synthesis of potent androgens such DHT, androstanedione, and androsterone. And unlilke other precursors such as DHEA, 5α-DHP does not seem to activate the same negative feedback mechanisms upon its conversion to DHT or other androgens.
Finally, to top it all off, 5α-DHP does not seem to possess anti-androgenic effects like regular progesterone. This should make it a bit more convenient for supplementation in males who are wary of using progesterone supplements. I think the saturation of the steroid is what removes some if its anti-androgenic effects while preserving the activation of the progesterone receptor.

Note: The opponents of DMSO on this forum have a reason to celebrate :) Due to its extremely lipophilic nature, 5α-DHP is almost insoluble in solvents like DMSO, ethanol, acetone, etc. The only solvent in which it dissolves in high enough concentrations to make it practically useful is tocopherol, and as such the solvent for this product is mixed tocopherols and MCT.

The units listed on the label are just for measurement purposes. They do not indicate or suggest optimal dose. Please note that similar to the products sold by companies like BlueSky, this product if for lab/research use only. The product can be ordered from the link below:
http://www.idealabsdc.com/lab

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5α-Dihydroprogesterone (5α-DHP) is a metabolite of progesterone through the action of the enzyme 5α-reductase (5-AR). It is an agonist of the progesterone receptor with similar potency to progesterone, and just like progesterone it is an agonist of the GABA receptor. As a result, 5α-DHP has been shown to possess a number of properties ascribed to progesterone, including anti-estrogenic, anti-prolactin, sedative, anxyolitic, anti-depressant, neuprotective, anti-aging, pro-metabolic, pro-thyroid, and anti-proliferative. Unlike progesterone, 5α-DHP is not a metabolic precursor to cortisol, estrogen and androsterone. However, due to its 5-AR derived nature 5α-Dihydroprogesterone (5α-DHP) can serve as a pro-hormone to potent androgens such as DHT, androstanedione, and androsterone through a recently discovered alternative pathway. 5α-DHP is also a direct precursor to allopregnanolone and can elevate its levels even in cases of severely downregulated 5-AR activity due to stress, PUFA overload, or administration of 5-AR like finasteride or dutasteride. Finally, unlike progesterone, 5α-DHP seems to have little or no anti-androgenic effects.

Drops per container: about 240
Each drop contains the following ingredients:

5α-Dihydroprogesterone (5α-DHP): 1 mg

Other ingredients: mixed tocopherols, MCT
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References:

1. Po-hormone for DHT / androgen agonist / progesterone agonist
5α-Dihydroprogesterone (5α-DHP) Is Androgen/Progesterone Agonist And Pro-hormone For DHT

2. Anti-estrogen effects
5α-Dihydroprogesterone (5α-DHP) Is More Effective Than Progesterone As Estrogen Antagonist

3. Anti-prolactin effects
5α-Dihydroprogesterone (5α-DHP) Is More Effective Than Progesterone In Lowering Prolactin

4. GABA agonist and neurosteroid
5α-Dihydroprogesterone (5α-DHP) - The Primary Progestogen Neurosteroid

5. Effects on neurodegenerative conditions
5α-Dihydroprogesterone (5α-DHP) - Potent Role In Neurodegenerative Conditions
 

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