sladerunner69

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I have been having severe brain fog lately, likely a finasteride complication. I noticed that every time I drink a glass of wine the fog clears. Alcohol is a GABA-A agonist, and so is 5a-DHP, so I tried 1mg of 5a-DHP on the tongue and within 10 minutes I could feel the fog clearing. Now it's like 50% gone, and I feel as if my eyesight is a little sharper.

@haidut what do you think the reason for this is? Could this give us some clue into post-finasteride syndrome's neurological effects?

I too have severe brain fog from post-finasteride syndrome. I have found 5a-dhp to be one of the most helpful supplements to use, the only issue is that I seem to build a tolerance to it rather quickly. The first time I used it one drop made a significant improvement, and after a couple weeks I had to use 5 drops twice each day. I think downstream steroids and 5-ar reduced steroids are easily prone to suppression, which makes PFS more difficult to treat.

However, I do the best treatment for PFS may be to take DHT and Allopgregnenelone replacement drugs. 5a-dhp with Androsterone would seem to be the next best thing, considerring the former steroids are very tightly regulated. In addition, perhaps using these in conjunction with testosterone and thyroid would be even more beneficial since most PFS guys seem to be hypothyroid and have low testosterone/pregnenelone synthesis.
 

On_earth

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No need to be sorry its ok to ask. I’ve used 5-DHP and the other substances you mentioned. I couldnt tell you they are sinilair in anyway. Its not stimulating at all. For me it was calming. Not sedating. It just calms down, puts in a good mood and life was more vivid in a calm nice happy way. I do not believe it would be a problem for you. But then again I don’t have any experience about bipolar and schizophrenia. I had anxiety and depression. And I’m very positive it would be effective for that. I can’t really see how it could be bad for someone prone to mental invasive thoughts but like I said I cant really tell. The only way to find out is for you to buy it and use on drop increasing the dose slowly to see if you tolerate it.
That's what I will do I will buy it and use
Do you think I can benefit from Cb1 blockade of pregnenolone by taking 5a-dhp because it increase it synthesis
Or I must buy pregnenolone and use it if I want that
 

Kingpinguin

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That's what I will do I will buy it and use
Do you think I can benefit from Cb1 blockade of pregnenolone by taking 5a-dhp because it increase it synthesis
Or I must buy pregnenolone and use it if I want that

you dont like pregnenolone previous experience? Dont really understand the question.
 

On_earth

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you dont like pregnenolone previous experience? Dont really understand the question.
No I saw that one of pregnenolone mechanism is to block Cb1 receptor
So must I take pregnenolone to block cb1
Or 5a-dhp could convert to pregnenolone and I can get the same benefit?
 

sladerunner69

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Didn't large doses of B1 or B2 broken in to several doses per day help with the brain fog?
Have you tried copper but with something that reduces aromatase activity?

The most effective B has been B-3, because the 5-ar enzyme relies on NADHP to deliver ADP. It relieves my brain fog but it's still bad. I usually take b1 and b2 as well but those seem to give me general energy rather than address the specific PFS brain fog. It is a very specific kind of cognitive dysfunction that is unique to PFS and having very low 5-ar. Normal brainfog from poor digestion, liver toxicity, etc is probably no where near as severe. For me PFS has been like having a big gaping hole in my head where my brain is supposed to be, like it's gone completely numb and refuses to engage in any sort of higher function like thinking/feeling. It's very disturbing and it's difficult at times to recognize that you are even alive. So taking B-vitamins will only get me so far, I need something like allopregnenlone/DHT/thyroid replacement therapy to really get anywhere.
 

Kingpinguin

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No I saw that one of pregnenolone mechanism is to block Cb1 receptor
So must I take pregnenolone to block cb1
Or 5a-dhp could convert to pregnenolone and I can get the same benefit?

DHP dont convert to preg no. Converts to allopregnenolone. If it has affinity for CB1 i dont know. But allopregnenolone has many same effects as cannabinoil so would assume it has the same positive effects as the good properties of CBD. Likely even safer.
 

Waynish

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Why does it smell just like cinnamon? Very pleasing.

@haidut Any thoughts for people who experience some hair thinning on this? I don't think I've experienced it on any other supplements - but then again, I've not tried many androgenic supplements.

@chimdp me
 

bk_

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@haidut What is the shelf-life of 5a-DHP? What is optimal storage for increasing shelf-life? Thanks!
 

TiltMaster

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I thought I'd leave my experiences with 5a-DHP so far in this thread. I take dutasteride for hair loss and while I know everyone on here is heavily anti-5ARI (and rightfully so), I have pretty tolerable sides. I do suffer from increasingly serious brain fog and have long periods of depression, but had those before using dutasteride as well (the depression I mean, the brain fog was barely a problem). Because of all the positive news about 5a-DHP and because dutasteride blocks the conversion to 5a-DHP and ultimately ALLO, I thought it was worth giving it a shot.

I have so far used it a handful of times spread out over a month, each time 3-5 drops. It does not really help for brain fog for me, at least not with those dosages. I do notice a significant increase in mood, it's much easier to have a positive outlook on things in life. The onset is rapid, within an hour of ingesting, and can become almost euphoric. The euphoria goes away pretty fast, maybe lasts like an hour or so. I'm pretty sure that with regular and prolonged use, this euphoria will stop coming up though. The increased mood stays for a long time though, I feel that even the next day I still have a much better outlook on life compared to before ingesting it. This could be placebo though, it's really hard to tell.

What I find weird though, is that 5a-DHP can produce this effect with this dosage. 5 drops of the mixture contains 5mg 5a-DHP, which is 3.16 * 10^(3) nmol. Brexanolone, the ALLO drug that is being trialed for postpartum depression, is IV administered for 60 hours with AT MINIMUM a dose of 30 mcg/kg/hour and if protocol is followed, at many hours of the 60hr interval 60 mcg/kg/hour or even 90 mcg/kg/hour is administered. For reference, 30 mcg ALLO = 9.4 nmol ALLO.

Now obviously you administer more than 300 times as much 5a-DHP at once compared to a much lower, continuous dose of ALLO but keep in mind that the ALLO is administered IV so 100% goes directly into the blood. I'm still unsure of what % actually reaches the brain, but still. The orally ingested 5a-DHP still needs to pass the digestive system, then it needs to get into the blood and to the brain and then it still needs to get converted into ALLO. In theory, 5a-DHP only gets converted to ALLO and its iso-enzyme but based on some overview I've read in a seizure journal, it apparently also has some functionality of its own. Regarding the passage of the digestive system, I recall Haidut writing something along the lines of that intraperitoneal and oral administration should have about the same bioavailability and thus we can extrapolate data from animal studies on 5a-DHP (which are only done with IP or SC administrations I believe, maybe IV also?), but I'm not so sure.

The point I'm trying to make is that the actual percentage of 5a-DHP converted into ALLO reaching the right places is probably very low. Perhaps that in the people reporting only initial benefits, the dosage should be massively increased? I've also read some studies about development of tolerance of GABA-A receptors to ALLO (Tolerance to allopregnanolone with focus on the GABA-A receptor) but I doubt that with this dosage of 5a-DHP a tolerance to ALLO could develop that quickly, who knows though. Finally, I've also seen someone ask if this would be beneficial for hair. I haven't really noticed any effect but I think it's pretty much guaranteed to have a negative impact on hair if you take a large enough dosis because of the backdoor pathway to DHT. But again, I don't know how much would actually end up as DHT when taking 5a-DHP orally.
 
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Blicero

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5alpha-dihydroprogesterone promotes proliferation and migration of human glioblastoma cells​

 

bk_

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5alpha-dihydroprogesterone promotes proliferation and migration of human glioblastoma cells​

Steroid hormones, such as progesterone (P4), at physiological concentrations, promote proliferation
This is akin to saying breathing oxygen or drinking water or being alive promote proliferation of tumours. Of course in this study they say the solution is to shutdown vital steroids needed for neural synthesis, then the GBCs won’t spread! You can also just suffocate, starve, or dehydrate yourself as well.

The author of the paper and their research group appear to be investigating yet another chemo-drug.
 
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edoos

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Hi guys, is there any danger or side effects to try 5a DHP liquid mostly for PFS long-lasting symptoms like anxiety, insomnia and bad stress coping ability?
 

Mauritio

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This is akin to saying breathing oxygen or drinking water or being alive promote proliferation of tumours. Of course in this study they say the solution is to shutdown vital steroids needed for neural synthesis, then the GBCs won’t spread! You can also just suffocate, starve, or dehydrate yourself as well.

The author of the paper and their research group appear to be investigating yet another chemo-drug.
But why would progesterone and 5adhp increase tumor growth and Ru486 reverse it ?
Haidut recently said Ru486's anti-tumor effect is due to it beeing anti-cortisol ,but 5adhp and especially progesterone are very strong anti-cortisol agents .

Something doesn't add up here ...
 

bk_

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But why would progesterone and 5adhp increase tumor growth and Ru486 reverse it ?
Haidut recently said Ru486's anti-tumor effect is due to it beeing anti-cortisol ,but 5adhp and especially progesterone are very strong anti-cortisol agents .

Something doesn't add up here ...

I’ll have to do a review of the literature and get back to on this within a week to month from now.

The question is what overall effect does it have on the brain and cellular physiology? Whereas progesterone and its neurosteroids promote glucose metabolism, increased healthy function in the brain, and blood flow. If there is a tumor does it promote tumor growth by virtue of it being essential for cellular function much like eating food or drinking water or breathing? Remember tumors need nutrients too and many chemo drugs work by starving or poisoning the tumor (and the rest of the body) instead of correcting the underlying issue (such cancer metabolism).

In the meantime I would like to state that the biochemical action of Ru486 is complex meaning it does many things than simply act as a selective progestin modulator due to its broad action and metabolites. It may have a progesterone like action on cells whereas the metabolites cause a suppression of progesterone metabolites such as neurosteroids. It was found to lower cortisol which can help reduce fatty acid oxidation and ischemia in some cases. Simplifying it to a single hormonal action is being reductionist so I need to look at the literature to see it’s in vivo end results.

See this paper for example: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/09513590.2012.638754?journalCode=igye20
 

aadrock

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Just like androsterone - potent anti-depressant. The saturated steroids are really where it seems to be at for improving mood. Also, unlike androsterone which gave me a bit of unrestful sleep, 5α-DHP seems to be great to improve sleep. In higher doses (20mg - 30mg daily) I also noticed androgenic effects like harder muscles and leaner body. It also seems to be rather good for memory and cognition. It is not as sedative as progesterone, so it should be useful for studying but I think that effect is individual as one potent human anesthetic agent (pregnanolone) is a metabolite of 5α-DHP.
I think it can also be used for flu protection, given the posts about progesterone being protective from both lethality and infectiveness of viruses.
Is the "Man Flu" a real thing? Science says yes - Cantech Letter

All in all, quite a versatile steroid.
Would the high doses be more androgenic because you saturate the 5adhp receptors and the allopregnenolone receptors etc so then it keeps on converting to androgenic steroids (androsterone / dht etc)?
 
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