GorillaHead

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Joined
Oct 21, 2018
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USA
So is this best taken under the tongue or topically? This should increase allopregnalone if you are deficient of 5a-Dhp.

those who are experiencing a stimulating effect or found it useful in the gym it’s probably an increase in aallopregnelone which increase dopamine and neonephrine. Studies have show allopregmelone to be higher in men and to have influence over Motorcontrol. I am on fin and I have noticed a decrease in muscle stimulation. Hoping this will resolve my issue if my theory is correct.

Sorry for the typos.
 

Owen B

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Joined
Jun 10, 2016
Messages
310
This is my report after using this for about a month.

It seemed like it was the right thing for me to take as I have high stress levels, TBI plus I'm getting older now and progesterone doesn't seem to work like it did when I started it a couple of years ago.

Initially I tried it at 1-2 mgs and got anxious and really aggressive. Too small a dose for a GABA agonist so I was getting GABA antagonism. So I upped to 5 mgs and got really good results. Muscles felt firm, my mood seemed very good, nothing really dramatic; just smooth, easy, well-balanced, friendly and reasonable.

Then I picked up that musky Androsterone odor, my libido picked up and my thyroid got a lot better. I usually can't get my AM temps above 96.5. They went up to just a little over 97.

Then sedating effects took over. I kept my dose 3-5 mgs. a day. The sedation effects weren't heavy like that punch drunk feeling I'd get from a benzo. It was fairly well balanced but a bit too much.

Then at the same dose I started getting a hyper-energetic, hyper-manic jittery feeling that reminded me of CNS stimulants. I went back up to 5 mgs and got more of the same, only worse. Plus I started getting a lot of excess stomach acid. It may have been from something else; I'm not really sure.

I can't do anything else with this now. It was really disappointing. A mood, thyroid and libido booster in one chemical? That would have been unreal. The last effects were probably some kind of GABA antagonism but I just can't try an even higher dose now. Those feelings were not pleasant at all.

Even though I got good results with 3-5 mgs, that dose just stopped working. Dosing seems to be the key with this but I'm really reluctant to try anything else with this.
 

ddjd

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Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
3,453
does 5aDHP exert any effect on nuclear factor-erythroid-2-related factor (Nrf2)?
 

Satellite

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Joined
Jun 22, 2018
Messages
159
@haidut

https://academic.oup.com/biolreprod/article-pdf/30/3/594/8770590/biolreprod0594.pdf

"The effect of Scs-dihydroprogesterone (5a-DHP) on gonadotropin release was examined in the immature acutely ovariectomized (OVX) rat primed with a low dose of estradiol (E2)"

"The ability of progesterone to influence the release of FSH has been demonstrated in the rat (Taleisnik et a!., 1970; McPherson et a!., 1975; McPherson and Mahesh, 1979), the hamster (Shander and Goldman, 1978) and the human (Chang and Jaffe, 1978; March et al., 1979). It is not clear whether the effects of progesterone on FSH release are brought about by progesterone itself or one of its metabolites. A major metabolite of progesterone, 5apregnane-3,20-dione [5-dihydroprogesterone (5a-DHP)], is formed in the anterior pituitary and several central nervous system structures (Tabei et a!., 1974; Karavolas and Nuti, 1976; Stupnicka et al,, 1977; Karavolas et al., 1979) and is actively secreted by the rat ovary (Ichikawa et a!., 1974). It has been shown using the long-term ovariectomized (OVX) estrogentreated rat, that a single injection of 5a-DHP significantly stimulates serum FSH and LH levels (Nuti and Karavolas, 1977; Fink and Henderson, 1977; Zanisi and Martini, 1975, 1979). However, in the long-term OVX rat, priming with estrogen results in daily afternoon surges of LU for several days (Caligaris et a!., 1971; Ramirez and Sawyer, 1974; Legan et a!., 1975; Henderson et a!., 1977). Therefore, McPherson et a!. (1975) and McPherson and Mahesh (1979) developed an acutely OVX immature rat model primed with a low dose of E2 that was large enough to induce progesterone sensitivity, but relatively small so that an estrogen-induced LU surge did not take place. Using this model, a single injection of progesterone was found to stimulate FSH and LH release in the early afternoon (McPherson and Downloaded from https://academic.oup.com/biolreprod/article-abstract/30/3/594/2766640/ by guest on 05 October 2019 Mahesh, 1979). Furthermore, similar to events on proestrus, the FSH surge continued even after the termination of the LH surge. In the present study, the role of a single injection of 5a-DHP in inducing a selective release of FSH during periods in the afternoon when the gonadotropin surge usually takes place, was examined using the immature OVX rat primed with a low dose of E2. In addition, the dependence of 5a-DHP action on hypothalamic LHRH release and its effect on the sensitivity of the pituitary to LHRH in the release of FSH were also investigated."
 

Waynish

Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2016
Messages
1,732
This is my report after using this for about a month.

It seemed like it was the right thing for me to take as I have high stress levels, TBI plus I'm getting older now and progesterone doesn't seem to work like it did when I started it a couple of years ago.

Initially I tried it at 1-2 mgs and got anxious and really aggressive. Too small a dose for a GABA agonist so I was getting GABA antagonism. So I upped to 5 mgs and got really good results. Muscles felt firm, my mood seemed very good, nothing really dramatic; just smooth, easy, well-balanced, friendly and reasonable.

Then I picked up that musky Androsterone odor, my libido picked up and my thyroid got a lot better. I usually can't get my AM temps above 96.5. They went up to just a little over 97.

Then sedating effects took over. I kept my dose 3-5 mgs. a day. The sedation effects weren't heavy like that punch drunk feeling I'd get from a benzo. It was fairly well balanced but a bit too much.

Then at the same dose I started getting a hyper-energetic, hyper-manic jittery feeling that reminded me of CNS stimulants. I went back up to 5 mgs and got more of the same, only worse. Plus I started getting a lot of excess stomach acid. It may have been from something else; I'm not really sure.

I can't do anything else with this now. It was really disappointing. A mood, thyroid and libido booster in one chemical? That would have been unreal. The last effects were probably some kind of GABA antagonism but I just can't try an even higher dose now. Those feelings were not pleasant at all.

Even though I got good results with 3-5 mgs, that dose just stopped working. Dosing seems to be the key with this but I'm really reluctant to try anything else with this.

Androsterone seems similar in these ways too. Perhaps it is accumulating and needs more time between doses? Maybe every other or every second day is best.
 

Nokoni

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Joined
Feb 18, 2017
Messages
497
@haidut

Question... what factors outside of 5AR inhibitors can lower allepregnanolone levels?
Not Haidut, but insufficient dietary cholesterol could be a factor. It is needed for steroidogenesis. So can just getting older, because the conversion processes from cholesterol to pregnenolone to progesterone to allo – the whole steroidogenesis pathway, probably also including levels of 5α-reductase itself – decline with age. Since I'm an older guy I eat a couple eggs daily and also supplement everything on that path.
 

Charger

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Nov 25, 2019
Messages
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Chesapeake, VA
Not Haidut, but insufficient dietary cholesterol could be a factor. It is needed for steroidogenesis. So can just getting older, because the conversion processes from cholesterol to pregnenolone to progesterone to allo – the whole steroidogenesis pathway, probably also including levels of 5α-reductase itself – decline with age. Since I'm an older guy I eat a couple eggs daily and also supplement everything on that path.

Thanks, I noticed a dramatic improvement after using 5a-dhp, like a light switch. I am a former finasteride user but I assume that my levels were low even before due to strict diets and phases of veganism, and finasteride nuked them further. I was beginning to suffer severe anhedonia and memory loss recently (I'm only 31), and 5a-dhp seemed to cure those symptoms. Very thankful to have found this, was literally losing my mind. I was worried that I was going to end up as another morbid PFS case like so many I've read about.
 

Nokoni

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2017
Messages
497
Same here when I first tried it several years ago. As you said, like a switch. Pretty clear there was a deficiency. Never took Fin, just got old. You might also want to think about the other main post-5a-r hormone, DHT.
 

Ibento

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Joined
Jan 1, 2020
Messages
2
@haidut

if i order it to europe - isnit somehow possivle to right on thenpapermlower than 22 € for this product so then customs wont examinate this package? Thx

and have u had success shipping it to germany / austria?
 

Nokoni

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2017
Messages
497
@Nokoni

And did it stay like that ? Was it sustainable?
The effect was notably helpful then. Stopping would likely be notably unhelpful now. Overall, happiness and cognition have improved greatly since then because I continue to experiment daily and when I find new things or dosage changes that yield improvements I implement the change. DHP was among the earliest that provided incremental benefit. The most recent is agmatine. (And I'm exceedingly grateful to @Sativa for making me aware of it.) There is no single solution to anything.
 

Charger

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Nov 25, 2019
Messages
247
Location
Chesapeake, VA
The effect was notably helpful then. Stopping would likely be notably unhelpful now. Overall, happiness and cognition have improved greatly since then because I continue to experiment daily and when I find new things or dosage changes that yield improvements I implement the change. DHP was among the earliest that provided incremental benefit. The most recent is agmatine. (And I'm exceedingly grateful to @Sativa for making me aware of it.) There is no single solution to anything.

I actually started Agmatine two days before 5a-DHP, what's your dosage and what have you noticed?
 
Last edited:

Nokoni

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2017
Messages
497
I actually started Agmatine two days before 5a-DHP, what's your dosage and what have you noticed?
Started ~150 mg. Now ~900 mg, still increasing. Warmer. More energy. Better concentration. Happier. Good sleep. Feeling better every increase so far. Also hungrier. (Any follow-up should probably be in an agmatine thread. Don't want to hijack this thread.)
 

milkboi

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2018
Messages
1,402
Location
Germany
@haidut

if i order it to europe - isnit somehow possivle to right on thenpapermlower than 22 € for this product so then customs wont examinate this package? Thx

and have u had success shipping it to germany / austria?

He already does that. And yes, received every package so far, although there was one complication (it was only Vitamin E, 5a-DHP might have not went through).
 

fever257

Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2019
Messages
59
As many of you know by now, I have acquired an interest lately to research the connection between the process of saturation of various nutrients and steroids and the effects of this saturation on the properties of these substances. After doing some work on androgens such as androsterone and 11-keto DHT, I started researching the effects of various progestins / progestogens, especially metabolites of progesterone. As most people familiar with this forum know, progesterone occupies a rather prominent role in metabolic therapy due to its multitude of systemic beneficial effects such as opposition to estrogen, PUFA, aging, degeneration, infections, serotonin, prolactin, NO, etc. After reviewing the metabolic pathways of progesterone, especially in the brain, one metabolite immediately caught my eye. That metabolite was 5α-Dihydroprogesterone (5α-DHP).
5α-Dihydroprogesterone - Wikipedia

5α-DHP is formed from progesterone by the activity of the enzyme 5α-reductase (5-AR) - the same enzyme that converts T into DHT. I noticed that 5α-DHP levels rise sharply during pregnancy in most mammals (including humans) and in some species are the only progestogen as that species (horses) produces almost no regular progesterone. 5α-DHP is also the direct precursor to the neurosteroid allopregnanolone.
Allopregnanolone - Wikipedia

Allopregnanolone is the current darling of the pharma industry (since everything else failed) and is in clinical trials for almost every conceivable brain or mood condition including epilepsy, Alzheimer, Parkinson, TBI, MS, ALS, depression, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, PTSD, suicidal tendencies, etc. Those trials are being conducted with both bioidentical allopregnanolone and its bastardized synthetic cousin Ganaxolone.
Ganaxolone - Wikipedia

Early animal studies and subsequent human ones showed that it is progesterone metabolites formed by the activity of the enzyme 5-AR that are primarily responsible for the beneficial effects of progesterone in the brain and in so many conditions. Administration of a 5-AR inhibitor like finasteride reliably lowers levels of not only DHT but also of 5α-DHP and allopregnanolone. The administratios of a 5-AR inhibitor abolished almost all positive effects of progesterone in the brain. This suggests that it is the 5-AR metabolites of progesterone such as 5α-DHP and allopregnanolone that are primarily responsible for the benefits of progesterone in all these conditions. Reductions in brain allopregnanolone are widely recognized as the single most important factor in mental health (especially depression, suicide, and the infamous "brain fog"). Virtually all SSRI drugs that have shown some effectiveness raise levels of allopregannolone in the brain. However, in people who are under stress, have neurological damage, have endured treatment with finsateride, or are simply loaded with PUFA the enzyme 5-AR is downregulated both in levels and in activity. As such, simply supplementing with progesterone may not have the desired effects of raising allopregnanolone. This may be one of the reasons why progesterone seems to lose effectiveness as an anti-depressant in older people - i.e. they have much lower expression and activity of 5-AR compared to younger people. However, with the widespread PUFA assault even young people are showing signs of diminished neurological responsiveness to progesterone when administered as a supplement. One option would be to supplement allopregnanolone. However, allopregnanolone is not available OTC or by prescription in any country. In addition, due to the recent successful trials with both bioidentical and synthetic allopregnanolone derivatives, the future of allopregnanolone as a freely available chemical looks rather bleak. In all likelihood, one the FDA approved allopregnanolone or Ganaxolone for any condition, the company behind the trial will petition FDA to start regulating allopregnanolone as a drug. In addition, while allopregnanolone has a great track record as neurosteroid, it has no progesterone effect - i.e. it is not an agonist of the progesterone receptor. Agonism of the progesterone receptor has a multitude of other benefits including opposition to estrogen, prolactin, serotonin, NO and variety of other mediators tat serve to inhibit metabolism. Thus, ideally the substance to be supplemented with should have the properties of allopregnanolone (or easily convert into it) while also having the properties of progesterone through the progesterone receptor. The steroid 5α-DHP is exactly such substance, and for now it seems to not be subject to any clinical trials or legal threats. It is a direct precursor of allopregnanolone and as such should elevate allopregnanolone levels even in people with strongly downregulated 5-AR - i.e. sufferers of the so-called post-finasteride syndrome (PFS), older people or people under severe stress or PUFA loads. Just like progesterone 5α-DHP is capable of reducing estrogen receptor levels inside the cells and knock the estrogen out of the cells. It also inhibits prolactin release, just like progesterone. More importantly, it achieve these benefits in doses 2-3 times lower than progesterone. And last but not least, 5α-DHP is not a metabolic precursor to estrogen, cortisol, and aldosterone like regular progesterone is.
Furthermore, 5α-DHP (like other 5-AR derived steroids) can serve as raw material for synthesis of potent androgens such DHT, androstanedione, and androsterone. And unlilke other precursors such as DHEA, 5α-DHP does not seem to activate the same negative feedback mechanisms upon its conversion to DHT or other androgens.
Finally, to top it all off, 5α-DHP does not seem to possess anti-androgenic effects like regular progesterone. This should make it a bit more convenient for supplementation in males who are wary of using progesterone supplements. I think the saturation of the steroid is what removes some if its anti-androgenic effects while preserving the activation of the progesterone receptor.

Disclaimer: The fact that this post and product description contain quotes from Ray Peat does not mean he endorses/approves of this product. His opinions on a chemical may change when new evidence becomes available in the future, so future inquiries about a chemical, solvent, ingredients, etc contained in this product may elicit a different response than his quotes included in this post. Please seek his opinion independently on any chemical, solvent, ingredient, etc that you may have concerns/questions about.

The units listed on the label are just for measurement purposes. They do not indicate or suggest optimal dose. Please note that similar to the products sold by companies like BlueSky, this product if for lab/research use only. The product can be ordered from the link below:
http://www.idealabsdc.com/lab

*******************************************************************************
5α-Dihydroprogesterone (5α-DHP) is a metabolite of progesterone through the action of the enzyme 5α-reductase (5-AR). It is an agonist of the progesterone receptor with similar potency to progesterone, and just like progesterone it is an agonist of the GABA receptor. As a result, 5α-DHP has been shown to possess a number of properties ascribed to progesterone, including anti-estrogenic, anti-prolactin, sedative, anxyolitic, anti-depressant, neuprotective, anti-aging, pro-metabolic, pro-thyroid, and anti-proliferative. Unlike progesterone, 5α-DHP is not a metabolic precursor to cortisol, estrogen and androsterone. However, due to its 5-AR derived nature 5α-Dihydroprogesterone (5α-DHP) can serve as a pro-hormone to potent androgens such as DHT, androstanedione, and androsterone through a recently discovered alternative pathway. 5α-DHP is also a direct precursor to allopregnanolone and can elevate its levels even in cases of severely downregulated 5-AR activity due to stress, PUFA overload, or administration of 5-AR like finasteride or dutasteride. Finally, unlike progesterone, 5α-DHP seems to have little or no anti-androgenic effects.

Drops per container: about 240
Each drop contains the following ingredients:

5α-Dihydroprogesterone (5α-DHP): 1 mg

Other ingredients: add product to shopping cart to see info
*******************************************************************************

References:

1. Po-hormone for DHT / androgen agonist / progesterone agonist
5α-Dihydroprogesterone (5α-DHP) Is Androgen/Progesterone Agonist And Pro-hormone For DHT

2. Anti-estrogen effects
5α-Dihydroprogesterone (5α-DHP) Is More Effective Than Progesterone As Estrogen Antagonist

3. Anti-prolactin effects
5α-Dihydroprogesterone (5α-DHP) Is More Effective Than Progesterone In Lowering Prolactin

4. GABA agonist and neurosteroid
5α-Dihydroprogesterone (5α-DHP) - The Primary Progestogen Neurosteroid

5. Effects on neurodegenerative conditions
5α-Dihydroprogesterone (5α-DHP) - Potent Role In Neurodegenerative Conditions

I just got some diarrhea after taking 5 drops orally... is this compound not supposed to be ingested?
 

On_earth

New Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2020
Messages
3
I want to ask questions for anyone used it
Does it feel like psychedelics I mean does it change your time perception or cause dissociaton,visual auditory distortion. Mania?
I can't tolerate psychedelics or even some stimulants like modafinil or sulbutiamine it gave me panic, agitation with dissociation and destroyed my muscles and hearing
I think anything make time perception slower or cause visual auditory distortion would be bad for me
Do you think it's safe for bipolar depression and schizophrenia or not?
Sorry for my long reply
 

Kingpinguin

Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2019
Messages
586
I want to ask questions for anyone used it
Does it feel like psychedelics I mean does it change your time perception or cause dissociaton,visual auditory distortion. Mania?
I can't tolerate psychedelics or even some stimulants like modafinil or sulbutiamine it gave me panic, agitation with dissociation and destroyed my muscles and hearing
I think anything make time perception slower or cause visual auditory distortion would be bad for me
Do you think it's safe for bipolar depression and schizophrenia or not?
Sorry for my long reply

No need to be sorry its ok to ask. I’ve used 5-DHP and the other substances you mentioned. I couldnt tell you they are sinilair in anyway. Its not stimulating at all. For me it was calming. Not sedating. It just calms down, puts in a good mood and life was more vivid in a calm nice happy way. I do not believe it would be a problem for you. But then again I don’t have any experience about bipolar and schizophrenia. I had anxiety and depression. And I’m very positive it would be effective for that. I can’t really see how it could be bad for someone prone to mental invasive thoughts but like I said I cant really tell. The only way to find out is for you to buy it and use on drop increasing the dose slowly to see if you tolerate it.
 
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