30 to 50 cups of coffee a day

[boris]

@Apollo

2020.06.10 : Jodellefit : Dr Ray Peat Q&A - Weight Loss, Stretch Marks, Hydrogen, Negative Ions

2020.06.10 | Dr Ray Peat Q&A - Weight Loss, Stretch Marks, Hydrogen, Negative Ions and More! (Many of the questions reduced to their essence.) JodelleFit: How have you been doing? [in corona times] Ray Peat PhD: Very well. Investigating, as far as I can, what's been going on. My first...

raypeatforum.com

JF: My grandma was a big coffee drinker and she lived to be 94, so I believe there's something to the health effects of it. What about the habit-forming aspect? Because it's so medicinal, it's okay to have a little habit-forming with it?

RP: Yeah, but part of that is really what you need. Before I took any thyroid supplement, for many years I recognized my symptoms as being typical of people who were hypothyroid — for example, being nearsighted and having migraine headaches, or classical low thyroid signs — but for various reasons I just didn't get around to trying a supplement. In that period I would drink often 50 cups of coffee a day, and I would stave off the stresses and migraines and such. But I was pouring a huge amount of of coffee through my system, and just to feel functional, keep my energy up so I could work efficiently, first thing I thought of waking up in the morning was a cup of coffee, and then I would just constantly have a cup of coffee in my hand all day. Within a couple of days after I began using a thyroid supplement, I woke up one morning and noticed something was very different, and I wasn't craving coffee. I looked at my coffee drinking behavior and I was only drinking about five cups a day — four to five — and that happened spontaneously over a period of just a few days. So it wasn't that I was addicted to 50 cups a day, it was that my system recognized that as part of its homeostasis. That could be called an addiction, but if it's repairing you and preventing disease, and making you live longer, it's not proper to classify it with addictive things such as morphine. Everything about morphine and the opiates, everything known about it is destructive, creates inflammation, promotes cancer growth and degenerative diseases, and so. It's the basic archetype of a destructive drug and that this addictiveness is just part of that. The reason people feel addicted to to coffee or caffeine is mostly that it is filling in for something they need. There's obviously no need for the opiates.

JF: I feel like I'm the same way. First thing in the morning, I think of coffee…

RP: The body that takes all of those things into account. Someone did an analysis of the English diet and even though nutritionists say that coffee and tea are nutrition free, this analysis showed that — looking at the English diet as a whole — coffee and tea together provide 20% of several of the essential nutrients, including some of the B vitamins.

 

[Apple]

@Apollo

2020.06.10 : Jodellefit : Dr Ray Peat Q&A - Weight Loss, Stretch Marks, Hydrogen, Negative Ions

2020.06.10 | Dr Ray Peat Q&A - Weight Loss, Stretch Marks, Hydrogen, Negative Ions and More! (Many of the questions reduced to their essence.) JodelleFit: How have you been doing? [in corona times] Ray Peat PhD: Very well. Investigating, as far as I can, what's been going on. My first...

raypeatforum.com

JF: My grandma was a big coffee drinker and she lived to be 94, so I believe there's something to the health effects of it. What about the habit-forming aspect? Because it's so medicinal, it's okay to have a little habit-forming with it?

RP: Yeah, but part of that is really what you need. Before I took any thyroid supplement, for many years I recognized my symptoms as being typical of people who were hypothyroid — for example, being nearsighted and having migraine headaches, or classical low thyroid signs — but for various reasons I just didn't get around to trying a supplement. In that period I would drink often 50 cups of coffee a day, and I would stave off the stresses and migraines and such. But I was pouring a huge amount of of coffee through my system, and just to feel functional, keep my energy up so I could work efficiently, first thing I thought of waking up in the morning was a cup of coffee, and then I would just constantly have a cup of coffee in my hand all day. Within a couple of days after I began using a thyroid supplement, I woke up one morning and noticed something was very different, and I wasn't craving coffee. I looked at my coffee drinking behavior and I was only drinking about five cups a day — four to five — and that happened spontaneously over a period of just a few days. So it wasn't that I was addicted to 50 cups a day, it was that my system recognized that as part of its homeostasis. That could be called an addiction, but if it's repairing you and preventing disease, and making you live longer, it's not proper to classify it with addictive things such as morphine. Everything about morphine and the opiates, everything known about it is destructive, creates inflammation, promotes cancer growth and degenerative diseases, and so. It's the basic archetype of a destructive drug and that this addictiveness is just part of that. The reason people feel addicted to to coffee or caffeine is mostly that it is filling in for something they need. There's obviously no need for the opiates.

JF: I feel like I'm the same way. First thing in the morning, I think of coffee…

RP: The body that takes all of those things into account. Someone did an analysis of the English diet and even though nutritionists say that coffee and tea are nutrition free, this analysis showed that — looking at the English diet as a whole — coffee and tea together provide 20% of several of the essential nutrients, including some of the B vitamins.

interesting find. That explains a lot.

I've been struggling with coffee for a long time. I can't imagine my day without it. I tried givin up earlier this year, only manage only five days. I will half the coffee and see if that helps

JF: Yeah, I would second those fears. M. Anderson writes, “Please ask about caffeine and coffee addiction. How can caffeine be good if it’s habit-forming? Caffeine triggers cortisol release. How can this be good? What about acrylamide, the carcinogen chemical that's released when organic matter is half burned, like roasted coffee beans. Many people get problems with insomnia, anxiety, become edgy due to coffee. Quitting coffee cold turkey gives me terrible withdrawal. Why bother with coffee?”

RP: Part of that type of reaction is because of the lack of proper coffee consuming technology. Like the Japanese have their tea ceremony, we need a better coffee consuming technique, which involves good thick cream, because cream slows the absorption of the caffeine. The people who have the terrible reactions are usually hypothyroid and have a blood sugar problem. They take black coffee, often on an empty stomach instead of eating, and it drives their adrenaline and cortisol into a frenzy of tissue damaging stress. The using coffee only with food, never on an empty stomach unless there's plenty of cream or milk with it. Café con leche is a good method of taking it. But heavy cream, if you like the flavor of a rich coffee… Cream improves the flavor while slowing the absorption. If you look at the effects of caffeine… For more than 50 years, studies in animals of all sorts have demonstrated that caffeine is so powerfully carcinogenic [means anti-carcinogenic?] that it can be given with concentrated cigarette smoke — a very powerful carcinogen — and just a little caffeine added prevents the carcinogenicity of topically applied cigarette smoke. That observation led people to test them against other carcinogens. Even viral carcinogenesis is inhibited by caffeine. Even radiation carcinogenesis — the most absolute form — is suppressed by caffeine. So it would be good if we didn't burn the coffee; that that technology comes from partly the fact that people like the taste of a smoky burn things, and partly because it softens the bean and makes it easier to grind to get the caffeine out. Like the technology from ending tea, making black tea, releases lots more caffeine than green tea. So black tea is really biologically much more effective as an anti-stress, anti-cancer agent. The present way of preparing coffee isn't the ideal; it's just part of the tradition. It turns out that the more coffee people drink — five cups and up, for example — are the healthiest in general. Even a lower rate of of Alzheimer's disease, of cancer, heart disease, kidney disease, liver disease even! So empirically, even though coffee is full of all of that smoky junk, which would be best to eliminate, the caffeine overrides it powerfully.

 

[Peatness]

interesting find. That explains a lot.

JF: Yeah, I would second those fears. M. Anderson writes, “Please ask about caffeine and coffee addiction. How can caffeine be good if it’s habit-forming? Caffeine triggers cortisol release. How can this be good? What about acrylamide, the carcinogen chemical that's released when organic matter is half burned, like roasted coffee beans. Many people get problems with insomnia, anxiety, become edgy due to coffee. Quitting coffee cold turkey gives me terrible withdrawal. Why bother with coffee?”

RP: Part of that type of reaction is because of the lack of proper coffee consuming technology. Like the Japanese have their tea ceremony, we need a better coffee consuming technique, which involves good thick cream, because cream slows the absorption of the caffeine. The people who have the terrible reactions are usually hypothyroid and have a blood sugar problem. They take black coffee, often on an empty stomach instead of eating, and it drives their adrenaline and cortisol into a frenzy of tissue damaging stress. The using coffee only with food, never on an empty stomach unless there's plenty of cream or milk with it. Café con leche is a good method of taking it. But heavy cream, if you like the flavor of a rich coffee… Cream improves the flavor while slowing the absorption. If you look at the effects of caffeine… For more than 50 years, studies in animals of all sorts have demonstrated that caffeine is so powerfully carcinogenic [means anti-carcinogenic?] that it can be given with concentrated cigarette smoke — a very powerful carcinogen — and just a little caffeine added prevents the carcinogenicity of topically applied cigarette smoke. That observation led people to test them against other carcinogens. Even viral carcinogenesis is inhibited by caffeine. Even radiation carcinogenesis — the most absolute form — is suppressed by caffeine. So it would be good if we didn't burn the coffee; that that technology comes from partly the fact that people like the taste of a smoky burn things, and partly because it softens the bean and makes it easier to grind to get the caffeine out. Like the technology from ending tea, making black tea, releases lots more caffeine than green tea. So black tea is really biologically much more effective as an anti-stress, anti-cancer agent. The present way of preparing coffee isn't the ideal; it's just part of the tradition. It turns out that the more coffee people drink — five cups and up, for example — are the healthiest in general. Even a lower rate of of Alzheimer's disease, of cancer, heart disease, kidney disease, liver disease even! So empirically, even though coffee is full of all of that smoky junk, which would be best to eliminate, the caffeine overrides it powerfully.

Thank you. I do take my coffee with lots of milk and sugar. One day my thyroid will be fixed and I won't need coffee to get me going.

 

[Rafe]

After a few years doing the usual peaty protective things I went from being a jittery, shaking mess on coffee to it giving that relaxed, calm focused energy.

Now the phenomenon of the “coffee nap” (cup of strong coffee & a 20 min break to close eyes between sessions of reading/writing or hiking) is a regular part of my life.

Second: as long as it’s with sugar & cream or milk, or after a meal. No heroic doses here. But when I get more than 3 cups it’s so great.

 

[FitnessMike]

After a few years doing the usual peaty protective things I went from being a jittery, shaking mess on coffee to it giving that relaxed, calm focused energy.

Now the phenomenon of the “coffee nap” (cup of strong coffee & a 20 min break to close eyes between sessions of reading/writing or hiking) is a regular part of my life.

Second: as long as it’s with sugar & cream or milk, or after a meal. No heroic doses here. But when I get more than 3 cups it’s so great.

me too man, i could now tolerate decaff even, it would magnify my stress response at night/day and now, i can drink it and it improves my well being so much

 

[Apple]

Elizabeth Durieux, a native of Savoy, reached the age of 114. Her principal food was coffee, of which she took daily as many as forty small cups. She was jovial and a boon table companion, and used black coffee in quantities that would have surprised an Arab. Her coffee-pot was always on the fire, like the tea-pot in an English cottage.

The entire matter resolves itself into one of individual tolerance, resistivity, and constitution. Numerous examples of young abstainers who have died and coffee drinkers who have still lived on can be found, and vice versa, the preponderance of instances being in neither direction. Bodies of persons killed by accident have been painstakingly examined for physiological changes attributable to coffee; but no difference between those of coffee and of non-coffee drinkers (ascertained by careful investigation of their life history) could be discerned.[216] In the long run, it is safe to say that the effect of coffee drinking upon the prolongation or shortening of life is neutral.

Chapter XVIII: PHARMACOLOGY OF THE COFFEE DRINK -- All About Coffee, by William H. Ukers

www.cluesheet.com

 

[Vajra]

Once you're at this level, what exactly are the main bottlenecks from feeling energized and healthy, to being anxious and jittery? Salt & carbohydrate?

 

[PeskyPeater]

Ray Peat mentioned that he drank 30 -50 cups of strong coffee with cream when he was hypothyroid.
At that he drank lots of milk too, but not together...
How 's that possible ? Anyone tried ?

7:40

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74oLBrVddFs&t=465s


I drank 6-7 small cups and by afternoon my eyballs were expoloding and I had a headache.
Though I've been drinking 2-3 cups of coffee almost every day for the last 5 years with no problems

I think Dr. Peat has the knowledge that using milk with coffee affects the uptake of iron of the coffee negatively. Probably because the milk proteins bind to the astringent molecules or caffeic acid and chlorogenic acids that affect the iron in food when they 'mingle' in the stomach and gut. And the milk has heme iron affecting properties that in turn could be affected by the coffee when taken together. So he likes to separate milk from coffee but still needs to reduce the uptake op caffeine so it is absorbed in a careful steady way to prevent stress hormones release, and so adding the fatty cream solves that.

I think the cups he meant are probably cup size equivalent to normal portions of coffee about 150ml /..oz?, meaning he made his cup or glass of coffee so strong that it's total over the day had the same powerful effect of ~40 cups.

 

[PeskyPeater]

It seems to me, that he had such a high dominant effect of serotonin that he felt it was necessary to indulge himself in so much coffee and caffeic acid, so that it affected the acetylcholine and serotonine metabislm to such an extent, it [the coffee] had the effect of stabilizing his defective metabolism of hypothyroidism that was negatively affecteing his ability to put in work, IIRC at that time some kind of timber labor so he could continue with his job without getting flunked.

 

[PeskyPeater]

When we look at the constituents of coffee, we see that the most effects that happen in the gut come from the chlorogenic acids and it's metabolites of caffeic acid and their gut-microbes-influenced-metabolic-products. These also having the effect of increasing the turnover of acetylcholine in the brain , effectively making the person affected by these molecules able to resist the stressors of labor and social stress that comes with it. practically having a super saiyan effect in the quantaties he eaten.