2021 update of Ascorbic Acid supplement, yes or no?

[Josh]

I see that Ray Disapproves and then I see that the Quali C kind thats not made in china is fine, others then say that ones not okay either for some reason..


I know always better to get it from whole foods, I am getting about 133mg a day from natural foods but am I really getting that much when I consider some of that comes from cooked potatoes/gut health etc so was really only looking to take a smaller dose of vit C to take me up to 200mg or something thats all, not looking to crazy dose it.


I tried acerola cherry for months and it 100% made my skin more red/sensitive or something, it was weird, but immediately went away when I stopped it.


I can’t drink OJ as the histamine gives me issues, I am trying to add in an orange or two a day though, eat melon/mango etc more often too.


If AA is all good, what is the cleanest/lowest heavy metal brand out there, uk accessible.

 

[Makrosky]

I like purest QualiC a lot. It is one of my few supplements that always help no matter what. Kind of a panacea.

 

[Funnywhensunny]

Sodium Ascorbate may be an alternative?

 

[Dr. B]

I like purest QualiC a lot. It is one of my few supplements that always help no matter what. Kind of a panacea.

what does the supplemental vitamin C do, and is it beneficial to use even if you drink 16oz orange juice a day?

 

[CLASH]

what does the supplemental vitamin C do, and is it beneficial to use even if you drink 16oz orange juice a day?

Vit C is co-factor in collagen formation and immune cell function, its apart of the antioxidant system of the cell with Vit E and glutathione, it functions in neurotransmitter synthesis I think in specific the monoamines, and it also aids in pathways involved in fat oxidation.

Supplemental doses can be helpful if the diet is poor. The RDA is quite low for ascorbic acid, but reaching multiple times the RDA is easy with fresh fruits, 100% fruit juice, frozen fruits, certain vegatables, and potatoes/ tubers.

In my experience, using a supplement can be helpful if the diet is poor in those listed foods, and herbal supplemental forms like acerola, and camu camu aren't tolerated well. The herbal forms do have other effects besides the effects from thier high vit C content. Excessively high doses of pure ascorbate can cause issues in some people hypothetically because of effects on oxalate formation and metabolism, and because of vitamin C's effects and interaction with copper metabolism.

I used high doses of ascorbate acid for a while (4-8g/ day) and developed some wierd joint stiffness with clicking and cracking. Same thing happened with higher doses of vit E. I currently just use foods (basically fruit) to reach my vit C intake.

Things like poor diet, oxidative stress, infection, general stress, excessive collagen breakdown, etc. can deplete vitamin C.

 

[Dr. B]

Vit C is co-factor in collagen formation and immune cell function, its apart of the antioxidant system of the cell with Vit E and glutathione, it functions in neurotransmitter synthesis I think in specific the monoamines, and it also aids in pathways involved in fat oxidation.

Supplemental doses can be helpful if the diet is poor. The RDA is quite low for ascorbic acid, but reaching multiple times the RDA is easy with fresh fruits, 100% fruit juice, frozen fruits, certain vegatables, and potatoes/ tubers.

In my experience, using a supplement can be helpful if the diet is poor in those listed foods, and herbal supplemental forms like acerola, and camu camu aren't tolerated well. The herbal forms do have other effects besides the effects from thier high vit C content. Excessively high doses of pure ascorbate can cause issues in some people hypothetically because of effects on oxalate formation and metabolism, and because of vitamin C's effects and interaction with copper metabolism.

I used high doses of ascorbate acid for a while (4-8g/ day) and developed some wierd joint stiffness with clicking and cracking. Same thing happened with higher doses of vit E. I currently just use foods (basically fruit) to reach my vit C intake.

Things like poor diet, oxidative stress, infection, general stress, excessive collagen breakdown, etc. can deplete vitamin C.

i did fine using 1g-1.5g a day for several years, but if i raised the dose up to 2g+ a day id start getting severe kidney pains, sometimes trouble urinating which seemed like kidney stones were forming. i think its helpful to use if you drink tap water as it can help deplete the chlorine/copper from tap water. same reason zinc supplements can be useful if youve eaten lots of excess iron from fortified foods and copper from tap water. but i think if youve taken out tap water for some time, the side effects from vitamin c can become more noticeable, seems like it can deplete copper too much. and supplementing high doses of it seems to lighten the skin, probably due to its effects on copper and melanin.

16oz OJ should provide around 180mg vitamin C?
also i think the supplement form at least, has an anti cortisol effect. could be due to it having some antibacterial type effect, or anti toxin effect, that it lowers cortisol

 

[Jennifer]

@Josh, do you tolerate meat/fish and dairy? Those are all good sources of vitamin C. I don't think it shows up on nutrition databases so if you use one to calculate your intake and your diet includes the foods listed above, you're likely getting more C than you think.

 

[ecstatichamster]

If I feel like I have high endotoxins, my throat is sore and I have some joint pain, taking 5 g or so can really fix it.

 

[CLASH]

i did fine using 1g-1.5g a day for several years, but if i raised the dose up to 2g+ a day id start getting severe kidney pains, sometimes trouble urinating which seemed like kidney stones were forming. i think its helpful to use if you drink tap water as it can help deplete the chlorine/copper from tap water. same reason zinc supplements can be useful if youve eaten lots of excess iron from fortified foods and copper from tap water. but i think if youve taken out tap water for some time, the side effects from vitamin c can become more noticeable, seems like it can deplete copper too much. and supplementing high doses of it seems to lighten the skin, probably due to its effects on copper and melanin.

16oz OJ should provide around 180mg vitamin C?
also i think the supplement form at least, has an anti cortisol effect. could be due to it having some antibacterial type effect, or anti toxin effect, that it lowers cortisol

Thats interesting with the kidney pains, I would guess its related to the changes in oxalate metabolism as you suggested with the kidney stones.

Thats interesting about the tap water with chlorine. Our copper content here is low in the water, but the calcium content is high. I only know because I monitor the water levels for my fish tanks lol.

The copper depletion or something to do with oxalate metabolism was my guys for the joint symptoms I had.

It seems to directly lowers cortisol in some situations:

Inhibitory effect of ascorbic acid (vitamin C) on cortisol secretion following adrenal stimulation in children - PubMed

Measurements of plasma cortisol values before and at 4 and 6 hours after intramuscular administration of a depot preparation of synthetic b1-24 corticotrophin were carried out in 12 healthy children (group B) before, as well as on the 5th day of continuous ascorbic acid (AA) administration (1 g...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Vitamin C supplementation attenuates the increases in circulating cortisol, adrenaline and anti-inflammatory polypeptides following ultramarathon running - PubMed

The effects of vitamin C supplementation on the alterations in the circulating concentrations of cortisol, adrenaline, interleukin-10 (IL-10) and interleukin-1 receptor antagonist (IL-1Ra) which accompany ultramarathon running were measured using immuno-chemiluminescence, radioimmunoassay and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Attenuation of increase in circulating cortisol and enhancement of the acute phase protein response in vitamin C-supplemented ultramarathoners - PubMed

Supplementary vitamin C (2 x 500 mg tablets daily) or a matched placebo was administered to 10 and 6 ultramarathon athletes respectively for 7 days prior to participation in a 90 kilometer running event, as well as on the day of the race and for 2 days after its completion. Circulating...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Vitamin C: an essential “stress hormone” during sepsis - Marik - Journal of Thoracic Disease

 

[Dr. B]

Thats interesting with the kidney pains, I would guess its related to the changes in oxalate metabolism as you suggested with the kidney stones.

Thats interesting about the tap water with chlorine. Our copper content here is low in the water, but the calcium content is high. I only know because I monitor the water levels for my fish tanks lol.

The copper depletion or something to do with oxalate metabolism was my guys for the joint symptoms I had.

It seems to directly lowers cortisol in some situations:

Inhibitory effect of ascorbic acid (vitamin C) on cortisol secretion following adrenal stimulation in children - PubMed

Measurements of plasma cortisol values before and at 4 and 6 hours after intramuscular administration of a depot preparation of synthetic b1-24 corticotrophin were carried out in 12 healthy children (group B) before, as well as on the 5th day of continuous ascorbic acid (AA) administration (1 g...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Vitamin C supplementation attenuates the increases in circulating cortisol, adrenaline and anti-inflammatory polypeptides following ultramarathon running - PubMed

The effects of vitamin C supplementation on the alterations in the circulating concentrations of cortisol, adrenaline, interleukin-10 (IL-10) and interleukin-1 receptor antagonist (IL-1Ra) which accompany ultramarathon running were measured using immuno-chemiluminescence, radioimmunoassay and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Attenuation of increase in circulating cortisol and enhancement of the acute phase protein response in vitamin C-supplemented ultramarathoners - PubMed

Supplementary vitamin C (2 x 500 mg tablets daily) or a matched placebo was administered to 10 and 6 ultramarathon athletes respectively for 7 days prior to participation in a 90 kilometer running event, as well as on the day of the race and for 2 days after its completion. Circulating...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Vitamin C: an essential “stress hormone” during sepsis - Marik - Journal of Thoracic Disease

i dont think it directly lowers cortisol like the way a hormone could, it seems to be because its anti toxin or anti endotoxin? ray said anything that reduces gut inflammation or endotoxins should lower cortisol, increase progesterone. so that means activated charcoal could potentially also have beneficial effects on hormones?

 

[CLASH]

i dont think it directly lowers cortisol like the way a hormone could, it seems to be because its anti toxin or anti endotoxin? ray said anything that reduces gut inflammation or endotoxins should lower cortisol, increase progesterone. so that means activated charcoal could potentially also have beneficial effects on hormones?

Vitamin C and the adrenals seem to be intimately linked. It does have anti-oxidant function, and it seems to be able to help improve gut barrier integrity, but in the first study I posted the vitamin c actually decreased cortisol output from the adrenal gland upon ACTH injection in children. The other studies show decreases in cortisol and some inflammatory markers in stress states, as you alluded to.

Activated charcoal may help, but it depends on the situation. I think its effects are bit different than vitamin c tho. It can also decrease absorption of nutrients if taken simultaneously. If there is an actual gut infection I haven't seen activated charcoal eliminate it, I have seen it help to mitigate the side effects tho, perhaps by binding up bacterial compounds in the intestine as you mentioned. In intoxication charcoal has been used successfully.

The use of either depends on the indication. I think both are relatively safe overall, but even with that they do pose some issues depending on how they are used.

 

[Motif]

I see that Ray Disapproves and then I see that the Quali C kind thats not made in china is fine, others then say that ones not okay either for some reason..


I know always better to get it from whole foods, I am getting about 133mg a day from natural foods but am I really getting that much when I consider some of that comes from cooked potatoes/gut health etc so was really only looking to take a smaller dose of vit C to take me up to 200mg or something thats all, not looking to crazy dose it.


I tried acerola cherry for months and it 100% made my skin more red/sensitive or something, it was weird, but immediately went away when I stopped it.


I can’t drink OJ as the histamine gives me issues, I am trying to add in an orange or two a day though, eat melon/mango etc more often too.


If AA is all good, what is the cleanest/lowest heavy metal brand out there, uk accessible.

What did you end up with and did your histamine symptoms improve ?

 

[L_C]

I see that Ray Disapproves and then I see that the Quali C kind thats not made in china is fine, others then say that ones not okay either for some reason..


I know always better to get it from whole foods, I am getting about 133mg a day from natural foods but am I really getting that much when I consider some of that comes from cooked potatoes/gut health etc so was really only looking to take a smaller dose of vit C to take me up to 200mg or something thats all, not looking to crazy dose it.


I tried acerola cherry for months and it 100% made my skin more red/sensitive or something, it was weird, but immediately went away when I stopped it.


I can’t drink OJ as the histamine gives me issues, I am trying to add in an orange or two a day though, eat melon/mango etc more often too.


If AA is all good, what is the cleanest/lowest heavy metal brand out there, uk accessible.

I really like Billy’s Infinity Vitamin C. I have been taking it for a few years.

 

[Birdie]

The problem I think that Ray has with vitamin C is the modern mass production methods that end up leaving lead in your supplement. Ray had said vitamin C used to be safe before the production changes. Then, some said that Quali-C is made a different way, resulting in a more pure product without the lead in it. Back, sometime, I was convinced and bought some.

Then, there was reasoning that the ascorbic acid was better than the other forms. I don't remember the argument. I wonder if anybody asked Ray if he thought Quali-C were safe.

 

[Dr. B]

The problem I think that Ray has with vitamin C is the modern mass production methods that end up leaving lead in your supplement. Ray had said vitamin C used to be safe before the production changes. Then, some said that Quali-C is made a different way, resulting in a more pure product without the lead in it. Back, sometime, I was convinced and bought some.

Then, there was reasoning that the ascorbic acid was better than the other forms. I don't remember the argument. I wonder if anybody asked Ray if he thought Quali-C were safe.

isnt Ascorbic acid the form in Quali C and all the vitamin c supplements? what do you mean by better than other forms.

Ray's also said its allergenic isnt it? the modern vitamin Cs are all made from corn mold/fungus... during Ray's time back when the capsules were 50mg each they were probably extracted from citrus fruits.
I think Ray said when he tried the 500mg capsules they caused sore throat or phleghm or something, other allergic/inflammatory symptoms.

you can get real vitamin C capsules like smartervitamins Tru C or nutrigold vitamin c gold. much more expensive than other vitamin c, and the capsules are just like 90mg vitamin c each capsule

 

[rei]

I think maybe manufacturing technique has improved from the time Ray developed his opinion on the "new process"

I have found everest nutrition's bulk powder to be the best one to date, it even tastes better than the previous one i bought from uk (minerals water). They advertise it being pharmaceutical grade, and still it's very cheap as it's coming from poland.

 

[Dr. B]

I think maybe manufacturing technique has improved from the time Ray developed his opinion on the "new process"

I have found everest nutrition's bulk powder to be the best one to date, it even tastes better than the previous one i bought from uk (minerals water). They advertise it being pharmaceutical grade, and still it's very cheap as it's coming from poland.

not sure if he keeps up to date with supplements as much, he also does think the A2 milks are just marketing and not better.
but the vitamin Cs do seem allergenic, i think most products on market are still mold sourced. maybe the better companies just filter/purify it better.
theres some products which are just a mixture of freeze dried berry mixtures, which are advertised as "whole food vitamin c" using amla berries or acerola cherries etc

 

[Motif]

not sure if he keeps up to date with supplements as much, he also does think the A2 milks are just marketing and not better.
but the vitamin Cs do seem allergenic, i think most products on market are still mold sourced. maybe the better companies just filter/purify it better.
theres some products which are just a mixture of freeze dried berry mixtures, which are advertised as "whole food vitamin c" using amla berries or acerola cherries etc

So what’s the best C supplement ?

 

[Dr. B]

So what’s the best C supplement ?

i dont know mate.
ive heard Quali C is better, maybe less contamination.
but the source is still corn i believe
i havent tried it but found one from smartervitamins "Tru C" on amazon.
its 90mg per capsule i think. but its berry sourced, so no corn or mold risk.
Ray said the C capsules used to be 50mg each, when he tried 500mg ones under the new process he got side effects like throat buildup and something else.
those 50mg ones were maybe something similar, maybe something sourced from citrus fruits

 

[Dr. B]

Thats interesting with the kidney pains, I would guess its related to the changes in oxalate metabolism as you suggested with the kidney stones.

Thats interesting about the tap water with chlorine. Our copper content here is low in the water, but the calcium content is high. I only know because I monitor the water levels for my fish tanks lol.

The copper depletion or something to do with oxalate metabolism was my guys for the joint symptoms I had.

It seems to directly lowers cortisol in some situations:

Inhibitory effect of ascorbic acid (vitamin C) on cortisol secretion following adrenal stimulation in children - PubMed

Measurements of plasma cortisol values before and at 4 and 6 hours after intramuscular administration of a depot preparation of synthetic b1-24 corticotrophin were carried out in 12 healthy children (group B) before, as well as on the 5th day of continuous ascorbic acid (AA) administration (1 g...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Vitamin C supplementation attenuates the increases in circulating cortisol, adrenaline and anti-inflammatory polypeptides following ultramarathon running - PubMed

The effects of vitamin C supplementation on the alterations in the circulating concentrations of cortisol, adrenaline, interleukin-10 (IL-10) and interleukin-1 receptor antagonist (IL-1Ra) which accompany ultramarathon running were measured using immuno-chemiluminescence, radioimmunoassay and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Attenuation of increase in circulating cortisol and enhancement of the acute phase protein response in vitamin C-supplemented ultramarathoners - PubMed

Supplementary vitamin C (2 x 500 mg tablets daily) or a matched placebo was administered to 10 and 6 ultramarathon athletes respectively for 7 days prior to participation in a 90 kilometer running event, as well as on the day of the race and for 2 days after its completion. Circulating...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Vitamin C: an essential “stress hormone” during sepsis - Marik - Journal of Thoracic Disease

what kind of fishes? do you eat them or are they pets?